Review: Sensor Performance of the 7D Mark II

[candc]

Is regular ml different from nightly builds? The only download link I can find is for nightly builds and that sounds like beta?

 

[Marsu42]

Is regular ml different from nightly builds? The only download link I can find is for nightly builds and that sounds like beta?

Gotcha - there is no regular ml, nightly is the new stable due to a lack of dev resources. But it's tested a lot esp. on 5d3, and development has moved back into branches and pull requests.

https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/commits/all
https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/branches
https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/pull-requests

 

[candc]

Thanks, I will give it a try. The dual ISO feature sounds great. I think you lose some detail in the highlights but that's better than no detail because its blown out

 

[meywd]

I have to admit that ML makes me a bit nervous. I get the risk/reward for Video shooters. Just not sure it's worth the agro for stills. People seem to love it though, so I guess I'm missing out. Is there still a staple 5D2 build? Maybe I'll try that sometime to see how it is. Do you keep ML on the same card you write files to on the 5D3?

Oh well, I think ML is for the cool kids; "I used to be with It, Then they changed what It was"

Why I use it?

• Intervalometer/bulb: for timelapse, bulb shots above 30s,,,,
• MLU: mirror lockup on timer shots
• Focus Peak: Manual lenses are really tough, and i have a bad vision
• Advance Bracket: on the 600D more than on the 5D III for HDR
• Dual ISO: still testing it, but so far i like it a lot
• Shutter Count: includes actuations

 

[East Wind Photography]

I have to admit that ML makes me a bit nervous. I get the risk/reward for Video shooters. Just not sure it's worth the agro for stills. People seem to love it though, so I guess I'm missing out. Is there still a staple 5D2 build? Maybe I'll try that sometime to see how it is. Do you keep ML on the same card you write files to on the 5D3?

Oh well, I think ML is for the cool kids; "I used to be with It, Then they changed what It was"

I've been using it on my 5D3 since it was available for it. I've never had a crash or an instance where I had to pull the battery or reset it. The original canon firmware is still there, just hit menu and you can do all of the factory stuff just as you did.

There are only two downsides, 1) slower wakeup time from sleep mode 2) with some of the features turned on like focus peaking, realtime histograms and the like, it does use a little more battery since the CPU is running at a higher rate. However if those features are useful to you it's worth it.

Other than that I have seen no downside to it. I use Dual-ISO quite often now at times when I normally would just give up such as during noon sun or when shooting directly toward the sun. Great for landscapes too.

 

[East Wind Photography]

Thanks, I will give it a try. The dual ISO feature sounds great. I think you lose some detail in the highlights but that's better than no detail because its blown out

With a properly exposed Dual ISO you dont lose that much and the shadow detail while less res is actually much more pleasing since the noise is reduced lower on the DR scale.

 

[East Wind Photography]

I have to admit that ML makes me a bit nervous. I get the risk/reward for Video shooters. Just not sure it's worth the agro for stills. People seem to love it though, so I guess I'm missing out. Is there still a staple 5D2 build? Maybe I'll try that sometime to see how it is. Do you keep ML on the same card you write files to on the 5D3?

Oh well, I think ML is for the cool kids; "I used to be with It, Then they changed what It was"

I've been using it on my 5D3 since it was available for it. I've never had a crash or an instance where I had to pull the battery or reset it. The original canon firmware is still there, just hit menu and you can do all of the factory stuff just as you did.

There are only two downsides, 1) slower wakeup time from sleep mode 2) with some of the features turned on like focus peaking, realtime histograms and the like, it does use a little more battery since the CPU is running at a higher rate. However if those features are useful to you it's worth it.

Other than that I have seen no downside to it. I use Dual-ISO quite often now at times when I normally would just give up such as during noon sun or when shooting directly toward the sun. Great for landscapes too.

I guess I should give it a try. The Dual ISO does sound promising. I'm in the habit of frequently formatting my cards. Do you erase the old files from the EOS folder manually? Or do you keep ML on an SD card? I suppose I should visit the site and read the FAQ again.

You can LL format and ML puts itself back on the card. Kind of like a friendly computer virus. It is easy to remove now. Just flash the firmware again and wait 30 seconds for it to remove itself and restore the boot flag back to the factory setting.

I have done that only a couple of times to test the wake on sleep delays and the uninstall gets rid of the delay so if you end up not really liking it you do have a quick way out.

 

[raptor3x]

I guess I should give it a try. The Dual ISO does sound promising. I'm in the habit of frequently formatting my cards. Do you erase the old files from the EOS folder manually? Or do you keep ML on an SD card? I suppose I should visit the site and read the FAQ again.

In case you didn't see it, I did a comparison between a Sony A7 and a DualISO 5D3 a couple months ago.

 

[East Wind Photography]

I guess I should give it a try. The Dual ISO does sound promising. I'm in the habit of frequently formatting my cards. Do you erase the old files from the EOS folder manually? Or do you keep ML on an SD card? I suppose I should visit the site and read the FAQ again.

In case you didn't see it, I did a comparison between a Sony A7 and a DualISO 5D3 a couple months ago.

Comparing apples to oranges again. .

 

[Marsu42]

The dual ISO feature sounds great. I think you lose some detail in the highlights but that's better than no detail because its blown out

Surprisingly, the post-procssing tool cr2hdr is very good at interpolating and re-constructing the detail in deep highlight or shadows - you only realize there's a difference in test chart shots or when some detail is only a horizontal scanline wide.

The drawback with dual_iso is the wb is broken and you have to guess in post, and that you only have an interlaced shot in camera as a preview.

 

[fragilesi]

The term "laggard" is not sarcasm, it's social science and as "discussing things" as it goes! The diffusion of innovations is well researched, I should know, I wrote my diploma about it ... for the basics see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_innovations

It's about different kinds of people adopting new technology and trickling down this information via social channels - the very thing that's happening right now right here. Innovation can stop at any time, not everything is adopted or replaces the old tech entirely.

Unsurprisingly, this Canon forum follows the Canon brand design - it's rather conservative and definitely isn't a stronghold of innovators or even early adopters. This is neither a "good" or "bad" thing, just an observation and it explains the reluctance about new camera designs. Heck, even Magic Lantern isn't widespread among Canon users even if its features beats most other camera systems out there.

As for the comics: Well, I can't help it, discussions on CR aren't exactly a serious issue for me and some situations simply remind me of a Simpsons scene. Though I hope they help to lighten the mood a bit

That's interesting stuff but as with all specialisms it's dangerous to take a word in common usage and attribute some specific, objective quantity to it and then expect to be understood. A laggard in common parlance is still simply "a person who makes slow progress and falls behind others". That's not appropriate here as most of us are well ahead of the average when it comes to digital photography, the techniques it involves and up to date tech. I think that must be a fundamental flaw in using that term to this audience in any sense.

And blindly following "innovation" is not a good thing either as our history proves in spades. I work in IT, and I know that early adopters have quality issues. I'm happy to let them get on with it, seek out the best and then run along afterwards protecting the many thousands of users we serve from nightmare scenarios that others regularly walk into. We give better service as a result. There's simply no question about it in my mind.

ML - I like the idea but as an ex-software developer I would not be an early adopter if they ever make it available for the 70D. As I've said in the past, I value reliability, the achievement of which takes significant innovation and investment. I have no problem with open source but sadly their excellent project has obvious problems and it would be foolish to risk my camera and / or scarce photography time even for the kind of improvements it offers.

You might see all that as "conservative" but certainly I think it's a long distance from "laggard". I don't really mind either way; I believe I will make the most progress with my photography in this manner rather than chasing the latest thing that will make it "easy" which is what a lot of what we are talking about involves.

 

[Marsu42]

That's interesting stuff but as with all specialisms it's dangerous to take a word in common usage and attribute some specific, objective quantity to it and then expect to be understood.

The term "laggard" is certainly not in my common usage, I wouldn't know about other people. I'm not a native English speaker and have never heard of it before until reading the original version of Roger's therory of diffusion of innovations.

Thanks for the explanation though, but imho it's expecting too much to participate in a English spoken forum with international audience and put that much weight onto individual words.

And blindly following "innovation" is not a good thing either as our history proves in spades. I work in IT, and I know that early adopters have quality issues.

The different adopter groups are not in a hierarchy of being smart or not, but simply in the order they adopt an innovation (or where the innovation stops to progress.). I'm not an innovator myself, and hardly an early adopter - I've bough too much "banana ware" and know what a reliable product is worth.

ML - I like the idea but as an ex-software developer I would not be an early adopter if they ever make it available for the 70D.

Porting ML to the 70d doesn't mean re-writing the software, but simply finding the firmware hooks of Canon's DryOS to make it compatible - and probably fix things in ML Canon has changed in the 70d. But the general quality of the codebase remains the same.

Comparison: If you have a 580ex2 flash on the 60d, it won't get worse because you stick it on the 70d. The ML devs are very cautious when declaring new ports working, but if you want to be an "innovator" and use unstable pre-nightly builds of course you're a beta-tester.

 

[dolina]

This is a forum of a rumor site. People who follow "news" on product releases generally are first adopters.

As for the logo of the site, perhaps CR guy does not want to spend on a innovative and ground breaking design. Money's better spent keeping our free forum FREE.

When using technical terms preface it as such or the general public will default to primary dictionary or cultural definition.

ML is nice and all but it requires a level of sophistication and gumption few posses. I was told that CPS voids the warranty of bodies with ML installed if it is brought in for repairs. I am unsure if they refuse to repair it. That very fact restrains me from installing it.

As for Canon products in general I rarely see production/design defects coming from them in over a decade's use of their digital cameras. Apple on the other hand I am glad to wait for the "S" model than the "non-S" model. iPhones are often so advance that the features they have drain battery faster and have limited support by my telco until 12 months from release.

DxO says the sensor aint that good. It doesn't matter to me as what is important is that it is superior as a whole to the original 7D

The term "laggard" is not sarcasm, it's social science and as "discussing things" as it goes! The diffusion of innovations is well researched, I should know, I wrote my diploma about it ... for the basics see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_innovations

It's about different kinds of people adopting new technology and trickling down this information via social channels - the very thing that's happening right now right here. Innovation can stop at any time, not everything is adopted or replaces the old tech entirely.

Unsurprisingly, this Canon forum follows the Canon brand design - it's rather conservative and definitely isn't a stronghold of innovators or even early adopters. This is neither a "good" or "bad" thing, just an observation and it explains the reluctance about new camera designs. Heck, even Magic Lantern isn't widespread among Canon users even if its features beats most other camera systems out there.

As for the comics: Well, I can't help it, discussions on CR aren't exactly a serious issue for me and some situations simply remind me of a Simpsons scene. Though I hope they help to lighten the mood a bit

That's interesting stuff but as with all specialisms it's dangerous to take a word in common usage and attribute some specific, objective quantity to it and then expect to be understood. A laggard in common parlance is still simply "a person who makes slow progress and falls behind others". That's not appropriate here as most of us are well ahead of the average when it comes to digital photography, the techniques it involves and up to date tech. I think that must be a fundamental flaw in using that term to this audience in any sense.

And blindly following "innovation" is not a good thing either as our history proves in spades. I work in IT, and I know that early adopters have quality issues. I'm happy to let them get on with it, seek out the best and then run along afterwards protecting the many thousands of users we serve from nightmare scenarios that others regularly walk into. We give better service as a result. There's simply no question about it in my mind.

ML - I like the idea but as an ex-software developer I would not be an early adopter if they ever make it available for the 70D. As I've said in the past, I value reliability, the achievement of which takes significant innovation and investment. I have no problem with open source but sadly their excellent project has obvious problems and it would be foolish to risk my camera and / or scarce photography time even for the kind of improvements it offers.

You might see all that as "conservative" but certainly I think it's a long distance from "laggard". I don't really mind either way; I believe I will make the most progress with my photography in this manner rather than chasing the latest thing that will make it "easy" which is what a lot of what we are talking about involves.

 

[Marsu42]

ML is nice and all but it requires a level of sophistication and gumption few posses. I was told that CPS voids the warranty of bodies with ML installed if it is brought in for repairs. I am unsure if they refuse to repair it. That very fact restrains me from installing it

Told by who? This is total bs and "fud", Canon has never stated this, and there is no case known when they refused repair because of ML. Btw ML is on your cf/sd *card*, the only thing changed in camera is a flag that loads ML *if* the card is in the camera and *if* the ML files are on it.

And you can uninstall this ML flag at any time, the the only time Canon would recognize at all (if they wanted it, which they don't) is when your camera is completely unresponsive so cannot tell ML to remove itself.

 

[fragilesi]

The term "laggard" is certainly not in my common usage, I wouldn't know about other people. I'm not a native English speaker and have never heard of it before until reading the original version of Roger's therory of diffusion of innovations.

Thanks for the explanation though, but imho it's expecting too much to participate in a English spoken forum with international audience and put that much weight onto individual words.

To be honest you only have yourself to blame on this one. Your post certainly gave the impression you were well-versed in the meaning and your English is so damn good I would never have guessed that you were not a native speaker. I work via e-mail with people from around the globe and thought I was good at spotting them too! In fact you put several of us "natives" to shame.

On top of all that you've used a term I've never heard before but will certainly do so in the future - banana-ware!

All that said I don't think that your comparison of using a flash on different cameras is a valid one. Canon will test for backwards compatibility with devices knowing their own code inside out. ML are just some guys doing their best, and their best sounds damn good, don't get me wrong. This means they won't understand what is happening in the differences between the 70d and previous models or the intention behind the changes. It's a very different scenario as I think most software developers would agree.

 

[Marsu42]

To be honest you only have yourself to blame on this one.

Not exactly, because I don't feel any need to excuse or take back anything I wrote, just to clear up misunderstandings. But I will make it my declared strategy to write (even) worse English in the future, I just started in another thread throwing in the occasional "Ja!" or "Nein!". Afaik there are other well known German words like "Verboten!" :->

On top of all that you've used a term I've never heard before but will certainly do so in the future - banana-ware!

It's the direct translation of a German term, "ripens after being sold", but I guess you got what it means w/o further explanation.

 

[fragilesi]

To be honest you only have yourself to blame on this one.

Not exactly, because I don't feel any need to excuse or take back anything I wrote, just to clear up misunderstandings. But I will make it my declared strategy to write (even) worse English in the future, I just started in another thread throwing in the occasional "Ja!" or "Nein!". Afaik there are other well known German words like "Verboten!" :->

On top of all that you've used a term I've never heard before but will certainly do so in the future - banana-ware!

It's the direct translation of a German term, "ripens after being sold", but I guess you got what it means w/o further explanation.

I just want to be clear, my comments were only meant as compliments about your English language skills.

 

[East Wind Photography]

I am going to need a tracking mount. Any recommendations? Not top of the line stuff, already spent way over budget on equipment this year. In fact the cheapest product that is proficient enough.

Yeah I agree. It depends on the weight of the rig, does it need to fit in a backpack or something you will use from home only or can transport in a car? Are you going to shoot deep space objects or wide star fields?

Cheap solutions can give you hours of frustration and not deliver what you expect.

This is about the minimum you can get away with.....

http://ca.skywatcher.com/_english/02_mounts/02_detail.php?sid=68

Looks great, and not too expensive!
Maybe I should rather ask this; what would you recommend me starting off with (deep space and/or wide star fields) taking into account the equipment I have - 70D, 7DII, 100-400L, ext 1.4III, 70-300, 15-85, 50 1.4, 60 2.8 macro. I am getting a 10-22 this weekend.
All will be transported by car - rough tracks - 4x4. We will be spending half our time in the bush where there is no light pollution and the stars is so bright it seems like you can touch them!
Thank you again for your input.

This looks pretty good as it allows you to use your own stuff to reduce costs and extra stuff you need to travel with. Watch the weight. Very easy for a camera and lens to reach the max limit and cause the tracking motor to start slipping (best case) or break (worse case). Though the 100-400 is pretty light.

I've not seen this mount but I may get one myself to play around with.

Just a follow up that the sky watcher mount is now available at B&H. You have to order some things seperately but its still cheaper than having it shipped from Canada unless you are Canadian!

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1092106-REG/sky_watcher_s20510_star_adventurer_motorized_mount.html

 

[East Wind Photography]

I just received the sky watcher star adventurer product from B&H. Looks very well designed with a lot of thought going into it's usefulness. I'm impressed with the size and weight. Will be easy to travel with. The declination bracket can also hold a second ball head mount for a guiding scope and autotracker.

The declination bracket also has a worm type fine adjuster. I would imaging it would be fairly easy to construct a motor that would allow for some kind of declination autotracking. Though I doubt it would be needed for most digital imagery.

I haven't had a chance to take it out yet. Maybe next week. All of this is fine but if it cant track as described it's not worth anything.