Review: Sigma 85mm f/1.4 Art Receives Highest DXOMark Score Ever

[Jopa]

How can the transmission change? Does a mount change involve additional elements?
I find a T-stop of 1.8 to be really bad for an f1.4 lens. The Sony/Zeiss primes often have no transmission loss according to dxo at all.

Overall I find this lens too large and heavy. What if Canon or Nikon would have introduced such a large lens? Then the complaints regarding large and heavy dinosaur technology would have been deafening. Already the Sony 85GM (our main portrait lens) is criticised for its size. But transmission seems to be much better as well as rendering (to my taste).

If a lens has vignetting, it can't be no transmission loss.

 

[Jopa]

Congratulations!!! Sigma. Hope DXO mark would do the test on Canon version as well. Not that I am great fan of their scores...

Dxo scores are paid to show low Canon scores.

Of course they are.
Never believe the facts, always listen to your heart.

Well, according to DxO, Sigma intentionally cripples their lenses for Canon: worse transmission, more vignetting, etc...

 

[Nininini]

Dxo scores are paid to show low Canon scores.

Of course they are.
Never believe the facts, always listen to your heart.

A company rating their own camera as excellent is like Apple reviewing their own iPhone by giving it 10/10. DxO Mark is a joke.

 

[eosuser1234]

Now if they could only revisit their 50mm Art and tweak it so it AF's reliably on the 5DIII...

Yes, this IS a comment on the 85mm, because if the 50 Art didn't work, why would I try the 85? Just for fun?

THIS, I have already read AF issues with this 85mm. I am NOT buying ANY Sigma lens until the AF problem is 100% solved.

A $100 Yongnuo with some AF issues? uh, sure

A $1200 Sigma lens with AF issues? uhm, get real, I expect no AF issues whatsoever at that price

It is always the same old story, right after launch there are a bunch of paid shills getting free Sigma lenses doing reviews,they can't stop talking how awesome the lens is, how well AF works.

"OMG Becky, this lens is half the price of Canon's L lens and it's just as shap!"

Wait 2 months and the reviews of actual consumers with AF problems start popping up left and right. And you found out why this Sigma is so much cheaper.

UNTIL, Sigma fixes the AF problems, they're no longer getting my money.

Try the Sigma USB dock firmware upgrade, that fixed a lot of problems for me. In addition, around the same time, I had my Canon 6D recalibration done by Canon for any focus and metering issues. It has made a huge difference in focusing, and metering I feel. The service is performed by Canon with some pretty high quality levels.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vvasaaoepr0
For me, Canon Service is what sets them apart.

 

[Nininini]

They're doing just fine without your money

Sigma is a one-trick-pony with a business model that hinges on selling lenses. Considering the yearly decrease in ILC, I doubt Sigma is doing fine. If cashflow was good they would have diversified years ago.

I heard sigma reps saying they are not affected by slowing camera sales, a typical japanese response, everything is going great until the ship is at the bottom of the sea.

Toshiba said they were also doing fine right before their stock plumetted 35% last year, and now they're selling half their company to the highest bidder. Doh!

 

[Ryananthony]

Now if they could only revisit their 50mm Art and tweak it so it AF's reliably on the 5DIII...

Yes, this IS a comment on the 85mm, because if the 50 Art didn't work, why would I try the 85? Just for fun?

THIS, I have already read AF issues with this 85mm. I am NOT buying ANY Sigma lens until the AF problem is 100% solved.

A $100 Yongnuo with some AF issues? uh, sure

A $1200 Sigma lens with AF issues? uhm, get real, I expect no AF issues whatsoever at that price

It is always the same old story, right after launch there are a bunch of paid shills getting free Sigma lenses doing reviews,they can't stop talking how awesome the lens is, how well AF works.

"OMG Becky, this lens is half the price of Canon's L lens and it's just as shap!"

Wait 2 months and the reviews of actual consumers with AF problems start popping up left and right. And you found out why this Sigma is so much cheaper.

UNTIL, Sigma fixes the AF problems, they're no longer getting my money.

Where did you find people complaining about AF problems with 85A? Everything ive read or seen so far has stated the opposite. Im very tempted by this lens, even after selling my 50A for issues I had in the past, so I am genuinely curious.

 

[Hflm]

How can the transmission change? Does a mount change involve additional elements?
I find a T-stop of 1.8 to be really bad for an f1.4 lens. The Sony/Zeiss primes often have no transmission loss according to dxo at all.

Overall I find this lens too large and heavy. What if Canon or Nikon would have introduced such a large lens? Then the complaints regarding large and heavy dinosaur technology would have been deafening. Already the Sony 85GM (our main portrait lens) is criticised for its size. But transmission seems to be much better as well as rendering (to my taste).

If a lens has vignetting, it can't be no transmission loss.

Interestingly, I don't find this to get together. Look at Sonys 24-70/2.8GM: Transmission 2.8, vignetting -1.6ev; 70-200/2.8GM transmission 2.9, Vignetting -1.7; 55/1.8 transmission 1.8, vigntetting -1.6ev etc. etc.
So do they measure only in the center? The Tamron 85 has T-stop f2, but Canon version has a transmission of -2.1ev and the Nikon version -1.6ev. So vignetting seems not to affect it considerably.

 

[Hflm]

Now if they could only revisit their 50mm Art and tweak it so it AF's reliably on the 5DIII...

Yes, this IS a comment on the 85mm, because if the 50 Art didn't work, why would I try the 85? Just for fun?

THIS, I have already read AF issues with this 85mm. I am NOT buying ANY Sigma lens until the AF problem is 100% solved.
At Fred Miranda there are a few threads on the 85 with complaints about AF consistency. Should not be difficult to google that.
A $100 Yongnuo with some AF issues? uh, sure

A $1200 Sigma lens with AF issues? uhm, get real, I expect no AF issues whatsoever at that price

It is always the same old story, right after launch there are a bunch of paid shills getting free Sigma lenses doing reviews,they can't stop talking how awesome the lens is, how well AF works.

"OMG Becky, this lens is half the price of Canon's L lens and it's just as shap!"

Wait 2 months and the reviews of actual consumers with AF problems start popping up left and right. And you found out why this Sigma is so much cheaper.

UNTIL, Sigma fixes the AF problems, they're no longer getting my money.

Where did you find people complaining about AF problems with 85A? Everything ive read or seen so far has stated the opposite. Im very tempted by this lens, even after selling my 50A for issues I had in the past, so I am genuinely curious.

 

[Nininini]

Now if they could only revisit their 50mm Art and tweak it so it AF's reliably on the 5DIII...

Yes, this IS a comment on the 85mm, because if the 50 Art didn't work, why would I try the 85? Just for fun?

THIS, I have already read AF issues with this 85mm. I am NOT buying ANY Sigma lens until the AF problem is 100% solved.

A $100 Yongnuo with some AF issues? uh, sure

A $1200 Sigma lens with AF issues? uhm, get real, I expect no AF issues whatsoever at that price

It is always the same old story, right after launch there are a bunch of paid shills getting free Sigma lenses doing reviews,they can't stop talking how awesome the lens is, how well AF works.

"OMG Becky, this lens is half the price of Canon's L lens and it's just as shap!"

Wait 2 months and the reviews of actual consumers with AF problems start popping up left and right. And you found out why this Sigma is so much cheaper.

UNTIL, Sigma fixes the AF problems, they're no longer getting my money.

Where did you find people complaining about AF problems with 85A? Everything ive read or seen so far has stated the opposite. Im very tempted by this lens, even after selling my 50A for issues I had in the past, so I am genuinely curious.

lesnumeriques forum

(not giving out names, I don't need sigma zealots ridiculing friends)

 

[Alex_M]

where abouts do you read abouts 85 Art AF issues? what sort of isues?
Paid shils- you mean our own Dustin Abbott is one of those shills? I beg to differ.

I own this lens since 21.12.2016. AF of this lens is absolutely consistent. there is nothing to fix.

Now if they could only revisit their 50mm Art and tweak it so it AF's reliably on the 5DIII...

Yes, this IS a comment on the 85mm, because if the 50 Art didn't work, why would I try the 85? Just for fun?

THIS, I have already read AF issues with this 85mm. I am NOT buying ANY Sigma lens until the AF problem is 100% solved.

A $100 Yongnuo with some AF issues? uh, sure

A $1200 Sigma lens with AF issues? uhm, get real, I expect no AF issues whatsoever at that price

It is always the same old story, right after launch there are a bunch of paid shills getting free Sigma lenses doing reviews,they can't stop talking how awesome the lens is, how well AF works.

"OMG Becky, this lens is half the price of Canon's L lens and it's just as shap!"

Wait 2 months and the reviews of actual consumers with AF problems start popping up left and right. And you found out why this Sigma is so much cheaper.

UNTIL, Sigma fixes the AF problems, they're no longer getting my money.

 

[Alex_M]

ah, that is why I had to preoder the 85 1.4 Art lens and wait for nealry 4 weeks. they still drip delivering stock to the Australian distributor... stock is very low. Sigma is a small family business and cannot keep up with such a high demand. We are lucky to have Kazuto Yamaki as Sigma CEO. this man is is the spirit of innovation.

re: forum posts and AF issues. : the lens has to be calibraterd properly. I mean properly! if not calibrated at infinity you are going to get OOf shots at variable distances to subject between 2 to 10 meters approx.

They're doing just fine without your money

Sigma is a one-trick-pony with a business model that hinges on selling lenses. Considering the yearly decrease in ILC, I doubt Sigma is doing fine. If cashflow was good they would have diversified years ago.

I heard sigma reps saying they are not affected by slowing camera sales, a typical japanese response, everything is going great until the ship is at the bottom of the sea.

Toshiba said they were also doing fine right before their stock plumetted 35% last year, and now they're selling half their company to the highest bidder. Doh!

 

[IglooEater]

Now if they could only revisit their 50mm Art and tweak it so it AF's reliably on the 5DIII...

Yes, this IS a comment on the 85mm, because if the 50 Art didn't work, why would I try the 85? Just for fun?

Wasn't there a rumor, speculation, or something that Sigma had used an underpowered motor in the 50mm and that was a culprit in some of the inconsistent focusing... furthermore that Sigma recognized that and put in a beefy motor for the 85mm to correct that shortcoming.

Yes. Sigma used a new HSM motor with 1.3 times the torque https://www.sigmaphoto.com/85mm-f14-dg-hsm-a They blamed the lower torque motors used prior for this for effectively missing the AF destination. [citation needed]
But that doesn't really tell us much, just that they want to sell lenses.

 

[YuengLinger]

there is a new AF motor in Sigma 85 Art indeed. it has been in the official lens announcement and also picked up by reviewer:

https://www.slrlounge.com/sigma-85mm-f1-4-art-review-the-beauty-of-this-beast/

"... Auto-Focus – With a new AF motor, this lens is the star-performer of the Art lineup and is engineered to be unparalleled to its predecessor, and rivals top-of-the-line competitors..."

Now if they could only revisit their 50mm Art and tweak it so it AF's reliably on the 5DIII...

Yes, this IS a comment on the 85mm, because if the 50 Art didn't work, why would I try the 85? Just for fun?

Wasn't there a rumor, speculation, or something that Sigma had used an underpowered motor in the 50mm and that was a culprit in some of the inconsistent focusing... furthermore that Sigma recognized that and put in a beefy motor for the 85mm to correct that shortcoming.

So when does the 50mm Art II come out with the new and improved motor? And how long did it take Sigma to identify the flaw?

 

[Alex_M]

not until we see commodity lenses released being 24-70 F2.8 A / 70-200 F2.8 S - shold be not too long before anounced now. the patent was filed about a year ago so it is reasonable to expect the lenses to anounced withing few months from now or even earlier.
I spoke with Sigma techs on number of ocasions. Apparently, Sigma manufacturing capacity is not that great. They tend to manufacture lenses in batches and then once done move onto next model. so my reasonable expectation to see 24-70 / 70-200 lenses anounced first and then we might see updated 35/50 mm lenses in about a year from now give or take.

Sigma identified the flow at the time it was identified by Art lens users. it takes time to develop solution, implement design, test prototypes and then manufacture the motor. It is a bit convoluted, I know..

So when does the 50mm Art II come out with the new and improved motor? And how long did it take Sigma to identify the flaw?

 

[heretikeen]

Now if they could only revisit their 50mm Art and tweak it so it AF's reliably on the 5DIII...

Yes, this IS a comment on the 85mm, because if the 50 Art didn't work, why would I try the 85? Just for fun?

Wasn't there a rumor, speculation, or something that Sigma had used an underpowered motor in the 50mm and that was a culprit in some of the inconsistent focusing... furthermore that Sigma recognized that and put in a beefy motor for the 85mm to correct that shortcoming.

Yes. Sigma used a new HSM motor with 1.3 times the torque https://www.sigmaphoto.com/85mm-f14-dg-hsm-a They blamed the lower torque motors used prior for this for effectively missing the AF destination. [citation needed]
But that doesn't really tell us much, just that they want to sell lenses.

First thing I heard about that, and the 50 1.4 A is my go to lens for close-up concert photography. Although my 70-200 does indeed have more full-on-focus-hits, the 50 isn't off worse than my other lenses and MUCH better than my Canon 85 1.8.

 

[Alex_M]

here comes citation. the key words are "stable performance":

http://www.sigma-global.com/en/lenses/cas/product/art/a_85_14/features/#features03sigmaphoto is not the

" ... Newly designed HSM for nimble AF control

The newly designed Hyper Sonic Motor (HSM) offers 1.3 times the torque of its predecessor. Even at low speeds, it offers exceptionally stable performance, and the updated AF algorithm helps ensure nimble autofocus performance. ..."

Yes. Sigma used a new HSM motor with 1.3 times the torque https://www.sigmaphoto.com/85mm-f14-dg-hsm-a They blamed the lower torque motors used prior for this for effectively missing the AF destination. [citation needed]
But that doesn't really tell us much, just that they want to sell lenses.

 

[ExodistPhotography]

Gets highest optical score ever. Still misses focus every 3 out of 10 shots.. No thank you..

 

[Alex_M]

and where did you get that numbers from? how about 98 out of 100 in focus (shots with sharpness achieved better than 80% of peak sharpness). first hand experience, lens tested with Focal software. custom test. 100 consecutive shots. good lighting. indoors. focal target at 4m. central AF point only. Camera on Vanguard Abeo Plus 363CB tripod.
I can confirm that canon 24-70 F2.8 L II lens results are not any better.

Gets highest optical score ever. Still misses focus every 3 out of 10 shots.. No thank you..

 

[heretikeen]

Gets highest optical score ever. Still misses focus every 3 out of 10 shots.. No thank you..

Sounds like you need a tripod, not a new lens.

 

[IglooEater]

and where did you get that numbers from? how about 98 out of 100 in focus (shots with sharpness achieved peak better than 80% sharpness or better). first hand experience, lens tested with Focal software. custom test. 100 consecutive shots. good lighting. indoors. focal target at 4m. central AF only. Camera on Vanguard Abeo Plus 363CB tripod.
I can confirm that canon 24-70 F2.8 L II lens results are no better.

Gets highest optical score ever. Still misses focus every 3 out of 10 shots.. No thank you..

Thanks for those tests Alex, good to hear. That's incredibly good news for photographers on a budget.

Oh and thanks for the citation, I missed that. Also I thought I read somewhere where they specifically mentioned static focussing of previous AF motors, but couldn't fin it off the cuff.