Samsung S7 has dual pixel auto focusing

[rrcphoto]

FWIW looks like a Sony sensor

http://www.gsmarena.com/galaxy_s7_and_s7_edge_found_to_sport_sony_imx260_camera_sensor_custom_audio_chip-blog-16827.php

And they would know this how? Considering that the phone has been announced but not released yet.

Teardown by someone? supplier parts lists? who knows, ask them!
You do know what FWIW means :

they ran some USSD code and got the information reported back by the phone.

however it's really determinate on the kernel.

 

[rrcphoto]

except the IMX260 doesn't have split / dual pixels though does it?

I wonder how sony got around that?

It must, mustn't it? That's what Samsung are saying. Why do you think it does not?

Here is a video of the dark room that Samsung set up at the S7 booth at MWC so people could test the phone camera in low light:

http://phandroid.com/2016/02/22/samsung-galaxy-s7-vs-s6-vs-iphone-6s-low-light-camera-comparison-video/

except of sony semiconductor released a DPAF sensor, we would heard about it. as a matter of fact, their latest sensors for phones make no mention and do not have DPAF.

Except this sensor isn't out in a device yet. This is us hearing about it

except they're already announced up to IMX312.
do the math.
and IMX312 does not have DPAF.

and yes, they are numbered in order pretty much.

Perhaps, perhaps not.

Is is possible Samsung is lying about the sensor architecture or that the listed sensor in the data dump is incorrect?

Sure.

Is it possible the pixels are split and there hasn't yet been a firmware and software implementation to use them for focus?

Sure. Case in point, the C100 had a DPAF-compatible sensor, but the tech was first announced and introduced a year later in the EOS70D.

except that was canon that actually held the patents. and secondly which has already been mentioned and you love to ignore, it's an older sensor from sony - none of the sensors shipping from sony have been advertised with DPAF, past nor present.

 

[3kramd5]

except that was canon that actually held the patents.

Maybe it's sony, maybe it's samsung, maybe it's canon, maybe it has multiple diodes per pixel, maybe not. But someone makes the camera sensor in this phone, and presumably that manufacturer holds patents covering it.

and secondly which has already been mentioned and you love to ignore, it's an older sensor from sony - none of the sensors shipping from sony have been advertised with DPAF, past nor present.

???

I didn't ignore that, I specifically addressed it in the very post you just quoted. Sensors may be out there with unannounced capabilities (and, for that matter, not all sensors necessarily have the same capabilities).


I don't know, nor do I claim to know, the pedigree of this image sensor. Further I don't know its capabilities. I only know what a phone vendor says one of its components is capable of, and what a screen dump from the phone in question phone lists as said component.

That being said, patents fall relatively easily to "improvements," and companies sit on tech for a host of reasons. I therefore don't discount the possibility that the samsung statement and screendump are accurate. That's it.

 

[martti]

Even a more interesting feature is that the new Samsung is water resistant up to 30 minutes under water.
You can take sharp pictures and video of fish in the dark.
Beat that, Apple!

 

[Tugela]

except that was canon that actually held the patents.

Maybe it's sony, maybe it's samsung, maybe it's canon, maybe it has multiple diodes per pixel, maybe not. But someone makes the camera sensor in this phone, and presumably that manufacturer holds patents covering it.

and secondly which has already been mentioned and you love to ignore, it's an older sensor from sony - none of the sensors shipping from sony have been advertised with DPAF, past nor present.

???

I didn't ignore that, I specifically addressed it in the very post you just quoted. Sensors may be out there with unannounced capabilities (and, for that matter, not all sensors necessarily have the same capabilities).


I don't know, nor do I claim to know, the pedigree of this image sensor. Further I don't know its capabilities. I only know what a phone vendor says one of its components is capable of, and what a screen dump from the phone in question phone lists as said component.

That being said, patents fall relatively easily to "improvements," and companies sit on tech for a host of reasons. I therefore don't discount the possibility that the samsung statement and screendump are accurate. That's it.

Third party manufacturers usually don't hold the patents for whatever they are making. The IP is typically held by the company that contracted them to make the device, or has licensed in the IP from someone else.

Just because Sony might be making the sensor doesn't mean that it isn't Canon's technology. If Canon licensed the tech to Samsung to use in their phones, Samsung can get it manufactured wherever they want it manufactured.

 

[3kramd5]

except that was canon that actually held the patents.

Maybe it's sony, maybe it's samsung, maybe it's canon, maybe it has multiple diodes per pixel, maybe not. But someone makes the camera sensor in this phone, and presumably that manufacturer holds patents covering it.

and secondly which has already been mentioned and you love to ignore, it's an older sensor from sony - none of the sensors shipping from sony have been advertised with DPAF, past nor present.

???

I didn't ignore that, I specifically addressed it in the very post you just quoted. Sensors may be out there with unannounced capabilities (and, for that matter, not all sensors necessarily have the same capabilities).


I don't know, nor do I claim to know, the pedigree of this image sensor. Further I don't know its capabilities. I only know what a phone vendor says one of its components is capable of, and what a screen dump from the phone in question phone lists as said component.

That being said, patents fall relatively easily to "improvements," and companies sit on tech for a host of reasons. I therefore don't discount the possibility that the samsung statement and screendump are accurate. That's it.

Third party manufacturers usually don't hold the patents for whatever they are making. The IP is typically held by the company that contracted them to make the device, or has licensed in the IP from someone else.

Just because Sony might be making the sensor doesn't mean that it isn't Canon's technology. If Canon licensed the tech to Samsung to use in their phones, Samsung can get it manufactured wherever they want it manufactured.

Fair enough, I should have said holds patents or a license.

 

[9VIII]

Thinking along the lines of patent licensing, I'm reminded of how Microsoft makes many millions of dollars every year off of patents used with Android.
If Microsoft can just sit there and make money hand over fist on mobile devices it has nothing to do with, why not Canon?

(Not that I think this is necessarily a good thing, the patent system at this particular juncture in history seems horribly inefficient, but theoretically in 10-15 years most of this tech should be free game and we'll have technology constantly jumping between platforms. That said, if Canon wants to profit off of DPAF, selling it to the mobile market sounds like a solid choice.)

 

[expatinasia]

I read reports yesterday that T-Mobile has started shipping the S7 early, and some have even received it already, so hopefully we will know more soon as people start posting reviews etc.

 

[expatinasia]

For anyone interested, ChipWorks has done a teardown of the new Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge and they took a very close look at the camera sensor:

So what is new with the S7’s camera system? Dual pixel phase detection autofocus (PDAF) technology! We first saw this concept in use in 2013 in a much different imaging application: the Canon EOS 70D DSLR. Canon committed 80% of the 70D’s active pixel array to dual pixel CMOS AF functionality. A similar concept has now been adapted to the world of small-pixel mobile camera chips, where 100% of the 12 MP active pixel array is committed to both sensing and providing data to the AF system. What is impressive about the new dual pixel feature is the chip design team's ability to roll out this technology in a 1.4 µm pixel generation (Canon’s DSLR system used 4.1 µm generation pixels). The results are stunning – the S7’s photos are of high quality, especially when viewed on its Quad HD display. We haven’t seen a claim for the S7’s AF system speed yet. As a reference point, Sony has reported a 0.03-second focus speed for its hybrid (contrast and phase detection) AF system in the Xperia Z5.

You can read more here:

http://www.chipworks.com/about-chipworks/overview/blog/samsung-galaxy-s7-edge-teardown

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

For anyone interested, ChipWorks has done a teardown of the new Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge and they took a very close look at the camera sensor:

So what is new with the S7’s camera system? Dual pixel phase detection autofocus (PDAF) technology! We first saw this concept in use in 2013 in a much different imaging application: the Canon EOS 70D DSLR. Canon committed 80% of the 70D’s active pixel array to dual pixel CMOS AF functionality. A similar concept has now been adapted to the world of small-pixel mobile camera chips, where 100% of the 12 MP active pixel array is committed to both sensing and providing data to the AF system. What is impressive about the new dual pixel feature is the chip design team's ability to roll out this technology in a 1.4 µm pixel generation (Canon’s DSLR system used 4.1 µm generation pixels). The results are stunning – the S7’s photos are of high quality, especially when viewed on its Quad HD display. We haven’t seen a claim for the S7’s AF system speed yet. As a reference point, Sony has reported a 0.03-second focus speed for its hybrid (contrast and phase detection) AF system in the Xperia Z5.

You can read more here:

http://www.chipworks.com/about-chipworks/overview/blog/samsung-galaxy-s7-edge-teardown

They have identified it as being a Sony Sensor

Rear-Facing Camera Update

Our lab staff have removed the imaging chip from the 12 MP camera module and have found a Sony back-illuminated (Exmor R) CMOS image sensor. We were expecting to find TSV arrays around the periphery of the active pixel array, corresponding to Sony’s stacked chip (Exmor RS) technology platform. Sony hasn’t publicly announced the IMX260, but based on what we’ve been reading, we assume that is the part number. It’s a bit of a surprise that the IMX260 isn’t an Exmor RS sensor, as we’ve been documenting a lot of Sony design wins based on its 1st and 2nd generation Exmor RS technology. It seems the full chip PDAF functionality, which requires dual readout from each pixel, was implemented with a multi-chip solution rather than a stacked (CIS + ISP) solution.

The Sony IMX260 die size, as measured from the die seals, is 6.69 mm x 5.55 mm (37.1 mm2). There are no conventional die identification markings in use on the die, consistent with back-illuminated (stacked/non-stacked) Sony CIS chips. We confirmed a pixel pitch of 1.4 µm and a Bayer-patterned color filter array.

 

[3kramd5]

except the IMX260 doesn't have split / dual pixels though does it?

I wonder how sony got around that?

It must, mustn't it? That's what Samsung are saying. Why do you think it does not?

Here is a video of the dark room that Samsung set up at the S7 booth at MWC so people could test the phone camera in low light:

http://phandroid.com/2016/02/22/samsung-galaxy-s7-vs-s6-vs-iphone-6s-low-light-camera-comparison-video/

except of sony semiconductor released a DPAF sensor, we would heard about it. as a matter of fact, their latest sensors for phones make no mention and do not have DPAF.

Except this sensor isn't out in a device yet. This is us hearing about it

except they're already announced up to IMX312.
do the math.
and IMX312 does not have DPAF.

It seems that some of the Galaxy S7s come with Sony sensors (IMX260), while some come with Samsung sensors (S5K2L1). Presumably they have equivalent specs (including DPAF), else some of the customers would be outraged.

How's that figure into the arithmetic?

 

[expatinasia]

It seems that some of the Galaxy S7s come with Sony sensors (IMX260), while some come with Samsung sensors (S5K2L1). Presumably they have equivalent specs (including DPAF), else some of the customers would be outraged.

How's that figure into the arithmetic?

From what I read last night it seems to be that this is Samsung technology but they did not have the necessary production facilities to produce the numbers that they need so they licensed Sony to produce some too. Ironically that same article says you are better off with the Samsung sensor!

Both are supposed to have DPAF tech.

It came out yesterday so hopefully we can get some real world examples.

Sorry I cannot remember where I read that yesterday as have been busy and not enough sleep!

 

[expatinasia]

There's a video on this page from Droid-Life which really shows off the speed of the camera.

http://www.droid-life.com/2016/03/22/5-reasons-the-galaxy-s7-is-worth-buying/

Has nobody bought it yet?

I am very, very tempted.

 

[3kramd5]

Has nobody bought it yet?

Nah. I'll keep my current phone (iphone6) until I can't. If I break it I'd consider the S7 - having reasonable waterproofing is pretty cool.