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briansquibb said:
I haven't tested the two cameras side by side and chuck westfall should be taken with a grain of salt, but he even hinted the AF of the 5d3 with the 7d metering system should be better/more advanced than the 1d4 and only falls short of the 1dx because of the 100,000 rgb metering system, however in the end the proof is in the pudding and i will wait before someone with the 2 systems can test them side by side before I formally declare one better than the other.
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As i said take chuck westfall with a pinch of salt but here is an excerpt taken from an interview with him regarding the 1d4 and 1dx/5d3.
AH: The current AF system in EOS 1D Mark IV delivers excellent performance when photographing subjects like birds in flight against a varied background. In this case photographer often uses center point with a fixed number of expansion points, as opposed to color-tracking or automatic AF point/area selection given the erratic nature of the subject. What benefits does the new system bring in terms of speed and precision in this application?
CW: The number and distribution of high-precision cross-type AF points has increased on the new 61-point AF system relative to the 45-point AF system used by the EOS-1D Mark IV. Moreover:
· The overall AF system speed of the EOS-1D X including lens drive is superior to that of the EOS-1D Mark IV on a lens for lens basis. The overall AF detection speed of the EOS 5D Mark III is superior to the AF detection speed of the EOS-1D Mark IV.
· The level of AF precision for 5 of the central area AF points on the 61-point sensor (i.e., the dual X-shaped cross-type points) is superior to the level of precision for any of the AF points on the 1D Mark IV.
· 21 cross-type AF points in the central area of the 61-point sensor are functional with maximum apertures as small as f/5.6; None (zero) of the cross-type points on the EOS-1D Mark IV are functional as cross-type sensors at maximum apertures smaller than f/4.
· The 61-point AF sensor has twice the low light sensitivity as the 1D Mark IV’s 45-point AF sensor (EV -2 vs. EV -1).
· The 61-point AF system supports AI Servo III, which is superior in subject tracking stability and consistency compared to AI Servo II found on the EOS-1D Mark IV.
· The 61-point AF system adds a greater degree of user control for subjects with various characteristics of acceleration and deceleration such as birds in flight.
· The 61-point AF system not only has 16 more AF points than any of the 45-point systems, it is also 20% wider in coverage (19mm vs. 15mm), making it easier for photographers to keep their subjects within the active AF area.
AH: The current AF system in EOS 1D Mark IV delivers excellent performance when photographing subjects like birds in flight against a varied background. In this case photographer often uses center point with a fixed number of expansion points, as opposed to color-tracking or automatic AF point/area selection given the erratic nature of the subject. What benefits does the new system bring in terms of speed and precision in this application?
CW: The number and distribution of high-precision cross-type AF points has increased on the new 61-point AF system relative to the 45-point AF system used by the EOS-1D Mark IV. Moreover:
· The overall AF system speed of the EOS-1D X including lens drive is superior to that of the EOS-1D Mark IV on a lens for lens basis. The overall AF detection speed of the EOS 5D Mark III is superior to the AF detection speed of the EOS-1D Mark IV.
· The level of AF precision for 5 of the central area AF points on the 61-point sensor (i.e., the dual X-shaped cross-type points) is superior to the level of precision for any of the AF points on the 1D Mark IV.
· 21 cross-type AF points in the central area of the 61-point sensor are functional with maximum apertures as small as f/5.6; None (zero) of the cross-type points on the EOS-1D Mark IV are functional as cross-type sensors at maximum apertures smaller than f/4.
· The 61-point AF sensor has twice the low light sensitivity as the 1D Mark IV’s 45-point AF sensor (EV -2 vs. EV -1).
· The 61-point AF system supports AI Servo III, which is superior in subject tracking stability and consistency compared to AI Servo II found on the EOS-1D Mark IV.
· The 61-point AF system adds a greater degree of user control for subjects with various characteristics of acceleration and deceleration such as birds in flight.
· The 61-point AF system not only has 16 more AF points than any of the 45-point systems, it is also 20% wider in coverage (19mm vs. 15mm), making it easier for photographers to keep their subjects within the active AF area.
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briansquibb
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awinphoto said:
This is not about the 5DIII vs 1D4 AF - this point was about the comment that the 1D4 AF was not accurate.
I would agree that on paper the 1DX reads better - but either the AF is accurate or it isn't, and I would suggest that within its pecifications it is accurate ie subject is in focus
We had the same rubbish with the 5DII accuracy - and again within it specifications it was accurate
Rubbishing bodies without a shred of evidence to support the allegations is very bad
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smirkypants
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Holy Hell. I've been out shooting with the 5D3 and I just have to say that the IQ rocks. I think I love everything about this camera except the reach. Personally, I think it knees the 1D4 in the groin. Now, if they could just give me this level of IQ with a 1.6 crop, I would be a happy man, though I think it'll probably be about until the 7D Mark III until we get there.
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briansquibb
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smirkypants said:
I have always thought that the IQ of the 5DIII would be better than the 1D4 - the 1Ds3 is better than the 1D4 and I expect the 5DIII to be at least as good as the 1Ds3 - although we are getting to the stage where it is difficult to distinguish at low iso.
What you lose with the 5DIII are those series 1 features (like I was shooting in the rain this morning), the functions, the configurability, the 10fps, the 1.3 crop and the f8 AF
To choose is down to the package that suits each person. A 1DX with a 1D4 as spare will really rock.
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smirkypants
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I'm going to shoot a match tomorrow. It's not that important so I'll shoot much of the thing with the 5D3. I expect that I'll have a lot fewer shots to show for it given my lack of cropping power but the shots that I have should be better. We shall see. One of the things I'm impressed with most is just how high you can push the shadow slider in Lightroom and not suffer. Heck, you can take it all the way to +100 with no worries. This is important to me because when the sun is high in the sky it creates harsh shadows on faces from the brim of the helmet. Of course I'll also be shooting with a camera/lens combination from the other guys....
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smirkypants said:
I'm gonna take a wild guess and say your AF must be working well then?
good to hear I hope my replacement is like yours
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markd61
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As a former 1 series user I can think of no reason other than high frame rates for choosing a 1 series body. The AF of the 5Dmk3 seems to be garnering praise for its all around goodness and its general improvements have put it at a very high operational level.
The differences that people cite are, for me, trivial.
Weather sealing. What level of inclemency are we talking about that requires such "protection"? I used film and digital cameras in all sorts of rain and snow with nary a hiccup. Of course I keep it dry but will a 1series owner get it all wet?
Rugged body. Nice but heavy. Heavier after 10 hours on the job. Dropping cameras is generally a bad thing and to be avoided. As insurance, a heavy body is costly and heavy (again).
Button arrangements. You will adapt to the camera you own.
Metering. The. most.overrated.issue.ever. Metering has not made significant strides since the inclusion of meters in cameras back in the 60's despite the advances in hyping the metering systems. Film latitude and racketing saved us in film days, chimping saved us in digital. More effective is the EVF or Live View screen that previews exposure to give real-time info. Live View is slow and Canon does not yet offer EVFs.
The real drawback to the mk3 is the price relative to the mk2. As you say this is not an issue I would still vote for the mk3 for its lighter weight and better IQ.
The differences that people cite are, for me, trivial.
Weather sealing. What level of inclemency are we talking about that requires such "protection"? I used film and digital cameras in all sorts of rain and snow with nary a hiccup. Of course I keep it dry but will a 1series owner get it all wet?
Rugged body. Nice but heavy. Heavier after 10 hours on the job. Dropping cameras is generally a bad thing and to be avoided. As insurance, a heavy body is costly and heavy (again).
Button arrangements. You will adapt to the camera you own.
Metering. The. most.overrated.issue.ever. Metering has not made significant strides since the inclusion of meters in cameras back in the 60's despite the advances in hyping the metering systems. Film latitude and racketing saved us in film days, chimping saved us in digital. More effective is the EVF or Live View screen that previews exposure to give real-time info. Live View is slow and Canon does not yet offer EVFs.
The real drawback to the mk3 is the price relative to the mk2. As you say this is not an issue I would still vote for the mk3 for its lighter weight and better IQ.
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'Overall' the 1D4 is better than the 5D3 for general use.
Easier to use and faster at everything including AF.
Easier to use and faster at everything including AF.
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cps_user
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hate to disagree, but I do.
I think both camera's are not hard to operate. Yes, the 1D IV is faster. But the 5d3 is lighter and FF.
So, it all depends on your needs. Currently I'm shooting both camera's, but I'm thinking of selling the IV and getting another 5d3. Just because it's the perfect fit for me. If you shoot birds in the rain you're probably the one buying that 1d IV from me
I think both camera's are not hard to operate. Yes, the 1D IV is faster. But the 5d3 is lighter and FF.
So, it all depends on your needs. Currently I'm shooting both camera's, but I'm thinking of selling the IV and getting another 5d3. Just because it's the perfect fit for me. If you shoot birds in the rain you're probably the one buying that 1d IV from me
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briansquibb
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markd61 said:
I guess you didn't need M with ec
I guess you didn't need metering on the AF point
I guess you didn't need multiple AF point metering (for weddings)
I guess you didn't use a (BW) harness to stop the camera dropping
I guess you didn't need f/8 AF
I guess the 1.3 crop is not useful for you
As for shooting in bad weather - yesterday I was shooting on an outside location when the rain came, 1D4 +70-200 f/2.8II - no problem
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Everybody is defending his gear.
Both are good cameras.
Buy what you need.
For me (will say it again) the AF of the 5D mark III rocks.
And yes I also have the 1D mark IV.
And when focal length is NO issue then the 5D mark III will deliver better IQ.
Both are good cameras.
Buy what you need.
For me (will say it again) the AF of the 5D mark III rocks.
And yes I also have the 1D mark IV.
And when focal length is NO issue then the 5D mark III will deliver better IQ.
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One of the reasons I think people say the 5d3 AF is better than the mk4 is due to the fact that it is, BUT the edge is exactly that, the EDGE SHARPNESS of the new sensor is waaaay better, which makes the contours of your subject much sharper, and therefore the picture looks better focused.
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tomscott
Photographer & Graphic Designer
briansquibb your passion is admirable but also silly. Im really happy the 1D VI is great for you, but do you have to keep iterating points in every thread...?
The 1D VI is great but you cant argue that the 5D MKIII is a great camera also at a much smaller price point (talking new) and is pretty much a big kick in the balls to the 1 series world. For an all out do everything camera its beats the 1D VI, cheaper, lighter, quick enough, great IQ, great AF, AP-H is awkward for ordinary lengths and wide angle has to be given a miss. You are in the minority of shooter that need every single feature. For 75% of the photographer the 5D MKIII is the perfect all round camera we have all been waiting for.
The 1D VI is great but you cant argue that the 5D MKIII is a great camera also at a much smaller price point (talking new) and is pretty much a big kick in the balls to the 1 series world. For an all out do everything camera its beats the 1D VI, cheaper, lighter, quick enough, great IQ, great AF, AP-H is awkward for ordinary lengths and wide angle has to be given a miss. You are in the minority of shooter that need every single feature. For 75% of the photographer the 5D MKIII is the perfect all round camera we have all been waiting for.
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