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macfly
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I've already dumped the garbage G12 and my new Nex7 is on order. Canon have lost me in the section of the market, and with the lack of EOS 1Ds news they may well loose me altogether now.
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The spec list looks great but something is iffy with the sample shots. They look too processed. Like they use too much NR and sharpening. At first I thought it is just sloppy job on dpreview's part but imaging-resource shows the same thing.
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Bokehmon
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-zero- said:
ouch, did it break?
(sory I couldn't resist)
probably, isn't fully made out of magnesium...
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DavidRiesenberg said:
Sony is a marketing machine and focuses on specs to lure in customers - yet the products often do not perform to the level of their specs. I spent some time in the consumer electronics industry (amps, receivers, etc.) and Sony's gear in a price range always had better published specs, but often did not perform as well as other vendors products with lesser published specs. I did side by side comparisons on some receivers and was amazed that the Sony receiver was a poorer product all around when according to specs it should have outperformed the competitor's product easily.
I was a Sony fanboy since they first came out with the Sony walkman, but the Sony brand as of late isn't delivering on what the brand originally represented - at least to me - which was highest quality, innovative products for slightly more money. They are still a good vendor/company, but for me the bloom is off the rose. It is not a given that it is an excellent product just because it has the Sony name.
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Mike Ca
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Re: A77 : Is it a true SLR? What's the mirror for?
The mirror is just for the AF system. This has advantages and disadvantages. The AF system can function while pictures are being taken. This can in principal make something like AF servo work better at high frame rates. For video shooters this allows continuous AF while shooting video.
The downside is you can not have an optical viewfinder, only an electronic viewfinder. The electronic viewfinder reduces your battery life. The mirror reduces light to the sensor.
As I recall independent reviews of the last generation of Sony mirror less cameras said that the Sony AF system didn't really live up to the expectations. In continuous shooting the AF system did not work as well as the Canon or Nikon AF systems in DSLRs. Shooting video the AF had problems tracking focus. Hopefully, Sony has worked out some of those problems in this new camera.
Fleetie said:
The mirror is just for the AF system. This has advantages and disadvantages. The AF system can function while pictures are being taken. This can in principal make something like AF servo work better at high frame rates. For video shooters this allows continuous AF while shooting video.
The downside is you can not have an optical viewfinder, only an electronic viewfinder. The electronic viewfinder reduces your battery life. The mirror reduces light to the sensor.
As I recall independent reviews of the last generation of Sony mirror less cameras said that the Sony AF system didn't really live up to the expectations. In continuous shooting the AF system did not work as well as the Canon or Nikon AF systems in DSLRs. Shooting video the AF had problems tracking focus. Hopefully, Sony has worked out some of those problems in this new camera.
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thejoyofsobe
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Re: A77 : Is it a true SLR? What's the mirror for?
then throw in the overheating problems their previous SLTs had that even flared up when not shooting video because the weather is hot (I live in Florida), the adjustment to an EVF, the diminished battery life and light loss. I got enough concerns that'd would need to be assuaged before considering even a similar Canon SLT with an EF mount if they ever made one.
but the mirror is down on an SLR when you change lenses anyway. i mean i look at the pictures of their SLT bodies and I see similar gaps on the side and bottom to SLRs that dust would go through. or is their SLT design more airtight in ways that aren't readily apparent? what would annoy me is that there'd now be two surfaces which affect image quality that can collect dust instead of just one. it's annoying enough to clean a sensor let alone also have to worry about a mirror.NormanBates said:
then throw in the overheating problems their previous SLTs had that even flared up when not shooting video because the weather is hot (I live in Florida), the adjustment to an EVF, the diminished battery life and light loss. I got enough concerns that'd would need to be assuaged before considering even a similar Canon SLT with an EF mount if they ever made one.
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Zerg2905
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After the Walkman there was someting that made Sony genius(es) scratch its (their) head (heads): it's called iPod; followed by iPhone; followed by iPad; followed by...
Sony might be the "800 pound electronics industry gorilla" (to quote The Luminous Lanscape article) but let's say that in photo, serious photo, they are not quite there yet. And they need not just one innovation, but a few dozens more.
My point is not to drop your current C or N gear just yet. If you think that the two old crows (Canon & Nikon) cannot make a "wundercamera" you are quite wrong. They can. But it is not a matter of possibility & tech, but of price; you cannot have a 36 MP FF shooting at 20 FPS and at ISO 102000 or more and filming in FULL HD (or maybe not, 21:9 or 2560/1080 will do great too - ouch, it was Philips that implemented that first hand and not Sony, right?...) for 2000 USD...
CANON EOS 1V (35 mm film SLR) was able to shoot at 10 FPS FF. A decade ago; with 45 AF points etc, tank-like construction etc; NIKON F6 - a monster camera; again, just think about price - here is the real war.
Cheers.
Z.
Sony might be the "800 pound electronics industry gorilla" (to quote The Luminous Lanscape article) but let's say that in photo, serious photo, they are not quite there yet. And they need not just one innovation, but a few dozens more.
My point is not to drop your current C or N gear just yet. If you think that the two old crows (Canon & Nikon) cannot make a "wundercamera" you are quite wrong. They can. But it is not a matter of possibility & tech, but of price; you cannot have a 36 MP FF shooting at 20 FPS and at ISO 102000 or more and filming in FULL HD (or maybe not, 21:9 or 2560/1080 will do great too - ouch, it was Philips that implemented that first hand and not Sony, right?...) for 2000 USD...
CANON EOS 1V (35 mm film SLR) was able to shoot at 10 FPS FF. A decade ago; with 45 AF points etc, tank-like construction etc; NIKON F6 - a monster camera; again, just think about price - here is the real war.
Cheers.
Z.
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ZeuZ
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I my modest opinion it doesn't really matter what kind of bodies Sony delivers. In the end it's all about the sensor and the efficiency of the batter. At this moment the sensors of Sony are good, some might say better and that what makes Sony for the pro's more interesting. And yes their bodies are quite ravishing, one can compare it to a miss competition where you're looking at the bikini contest part, but every body needs a content which shows the quality underneath. The question will be, can you Canon do it? (And of course mix it with some nice curves like Sony did.)
ZeuZ
and that what makes Sony for the pro's more interesting. And yes their bodies are quite ravishing, one can compare it to a miss competition where you're looking at the bikini contest part, but every body needs a content which shows the quality underneath. The question will be, can you Canon do it? (And of course mix it with some nice curves like Sony did.)ZeuZ
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The video and the video autofocus on the a77 look pretty good to me. The stills didn't impress me and the 5D2 looked much better in comparison (but then it should have been compared to a 7D or 60D to be fair). But I'd take a hard look at a77 as a video DSLR based on those clips if Canon fails to bring comparable performance. Sadly, I'm guessing in the video autofocus dept, Canon is probably not going to even come close. Sony claims they had to do the translucent mirror technology to make it work and there are no rumors of Canon doing that. I'll wait to see what 5D3 offers, but I suspect it will be not much different than 5D2 in terms of video autofocus. I sincerely hope I'm wrong about this.
Gotta hand it to Sony for tackling what is "the biggest fly in the ointment" for the average DSLR video shooter (as opposed to indie shooter) in getting a good autofocus system. Sony also tackled "the biggest fly in the ointment" for the average camcorder shooter in creating what is imo hands down the best IS system for a camcorder on the market in the CX550. I've had that camcorder a year now and still utterly amazed I can get 10X zoom handheld that is pretty close to tripod and 1X walk-around that looks not that much different than dolly. Obviously not the same as tripod and dolly but simply amazing just how close you can get.
Gotta hand it to Sony for tackling what is "the biggest fly in the ointment" for the average DSLR video shooter (as opposed to indie shooter) in getting a good autofocus system. Sony also tackled "the biggest fly in the ointment" for the average camcorder shooter in creating what is imo hands down the best IS system for a camcorder on the market in the CX550. I've had that camcorder a year now and still utterly amazed I can get 10X zoom handheld that is pretty close to tripod and 1X walk-around that looks not that much different than dolly. Obviously not the same as tripod and dolly but simply amazing just how close you can get.
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Zerg2905 said:
This is not some pissing contest or some funky brad loyalty issues.
Olympus, Panasonic or Samsung mirrorless cameras were not in any means a game changers, but this new Sony begins to be a serious problem, and really has potential to turn large portion of a market away from both, high end point and shoot and low to mid range SLRs.
Just give me one with compact super wide lens and, I will ditch my still bulky Rebel with his holster bag for ever, as my companion for daily walks with my dog to shoot opportunistic landscapes.
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So it's APS-C, and $1400, so going to compete against the 7D basically.
24MP vs 18MP win.
12fps vs 8fps win (even beating the 1D4 there).
GPS vs none win (but lose if you don't care and can't switch it off to save battery life).
50/60fps 1080p video win. (but only 28MBPS, up from 24MBPS in 24/25fps? more compression = bad?)
19pt AF/11cross vs 19pt/19cross lose (just on numbers, we'll see how well it works later).
In camera-panorama win if you like it, don't care if you'd rather stitch in-PC
Sensor-based IS win for old lenses, lose for battery life and heat.
ISO 50-25,600 (I always remember a TDP quote, just because you can, doesn't mean you should).
Selectable ISO range in AutoISO win (my mum's 6-year old IST *DL can, 550D too, why can't my 7D?)
5-frame AE bracketing win.
1200-zone metering win? 7D is 63-zone in viewfinder, not sure about in live-view.
30-1/8000s, 1/250s flash same.
Flash GN 12 (i think 7D is GN15?)
Buffer 13 JPG shots big lose (maybe blame the SD card?)
Battery life 400 shots viewfinder lose (7D is 1000 shots i believe).
Electronic viewfinder lose for me, battery life and dark-tracking main reasons. Depends if it's worth the extra 12FPS to you.
Ergonomics are always personal, and you'll learn to use what you've got after a few months. Personally, i'm sticking with my 7D. But yay for Sony, hopefully it's lit a fire under their 7Dmk2 development team, I expect nothing less that 28MP 9FPS 25ptAF for $1500 now.
24MP vs 18MP win.
12fps vs 8fps win (even beating the 1D4 there).
GPS vs none win (but lose if you don't care and can't switch it off to save battery life).
50/60fps 1080p video win. (but only 28MBPS, up from 24MBPS in 24/25fps? more compression = bad?)
19pt AF/11cross vs 19pt/19cross lose (just on numbers, we'll see how well it works later).
In camera-panorama win if you like it, don't care if you'd rather stitch in-PC
Sensor-based IS win for old lenses, lose for battery life and heat.
ISO 50-25,600 (I always remember a TDP quote, just because you can, doesn't mean you should).
Selectable ISO range in AutoISO win (my mum's 6-year old IST *DL can, 550D too, why can't my 7D?)
5-frame AE bracketing win.
1200-zone metering win? 7D is 63-zone in viewfinder, not sure about in live-view.
30-1/8000s, 1/250s flash same.
Flash GN 12 (i think 7D is GN15?)
Buffer 13 JPG shots big lose (maybe blame the SD card?)
Battery life 400 shots viewfinder lose (7D is 1000 shots i believe).
Electronic viewfinder lose for me, battery life and dark-tracking main reasons. Depends if it's worth the extra 12FPS to you.
Ergonomics are always personal, and you'll learn to use what you've got after a few months. Personally, i'm sticking with my 7D. But yay for Sony, hopefully it's lit a fire under their 7Dmk2 development team, I expect nothing less that 28MP 9FPS 25ptAF for $1500 now.
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dr croubie said:
Keep dreaming with your 7d2 expectations... We still need to see IF the 24mp vs 18mp is truely a win if the image looks like crap. Also can the 12FPS keep up with the AF and lock focus or does it just shoot a burst without AF change? GPS i dont care about and 19 pt AF is where it should be... Other than that, no level, no flash commander... the 7d still shines on.
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canon's 50 Mbps codec is very lousy, it delivers worse images than many 24 Mbps codecs (the ones on actual videocameras), so my guess is that it will be a win for sony there
but that's not really the important part for video: is line skipping really gone?
dpreview has updated some info, in particular adding a 1080p60 sample from the A77 (direct download of the camera video file, I think) and a further explanation of what the swivel screen can do:
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/sonyslta77/page8.asp
not the best sample I could imagine, but quite useful
in particular, I don't see any aliasing/moire
but that's not really the important part for video: is line skipping really gone?
dpreview has updated some info, in particular adding a 1080p60 sample from the A77 (direct download of the camera video file, I think) and a further explanation of what the swivel screen can do:
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/sonyslta77/page8.asp
not the best sample I could imagine, but quite useful
in particular, I don't see any aliasing/moire
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