So, what about the T4i?

[roombarobot]

I have been following the huge amount of discussion about the 5D MkIII, but that camera is out of my price range. So how about the T4i? I haven't heard much about it except for it will be released soon (maybe Friday) and it might have a different lens.

How about the T4i? Let's have a discussion for those of us with thinner wallets. Guesses at specs? Upgrades from the T3i? Dreams and wishes?

 

[Circles]

I'm sure the info will be released soon, hang in there mate!

 

[roombarobot]

Thanks Circles. I am just hoping for a significant upgrade over the T3i. There wasn't much difference between the T2i and the T3i, so perhaps it is time for some bigger changes. What I would like is not more pixels, but instead higher sensitivity and improvements to image quality. I don't need more pixels. How about brining in more of the 60D features as well.

I just sold my XTi, so I am ready and excited to get a new dSLR!

 

[wickidwombat]

i would hope the t4i debuts a new APS-C sensor that addresses the shortcomings of the existing 18MP sensor
also since the entry level is very sales driven based on that all important benchmark of pixels I think canon will need to trump the sony 24MP so i am guessing we will see a 27MP sensor (discalimer this can be taken as CR-3 since i just pulled that number out of my butt)

 

[roombarobot]

i would hope the t4i debuts a new APS-C sensor that addresses the shortcomings of the existing 18MP sensor
also since the entry level is very sales driven based on that all important benchmark of pixels I think canon will need to trump the sony 24MP so i am guessing we will see a 27MP sensor (discalimer this can be taken as CR-3 since i just pulled that number out of my butt)

What are the shortcomings of the current 18 Mpix sensor?

Good point about the megapixel war, but that is so silly.

 

[wickidwombat]

i would hope the t4i debuts a new APS-C sensor that addresses the shortcomings of the existing 18MP sensor
also since the entry level is very sales driven based on that all important benchmark of pixels I think canon will need to trump the sony 24MP so i am guessing we will see a 27MP sensor (discalimer this can be taken as CR-3 since i just pulled that number out of my butt)

What are the shortcomings of the current 18 Mpix sensor?

Good point about the megapixel war, but that is so silly.

I feel a jihad coming against me but what the hell

soft images - before i get struck down with vengence and furious anger I say this is relative to the Full frame and APS-H sensors. I REALLY REALLY wanted to get a 7D but when i compared it to my 10MP 1D mk3 it was a no contest the 1D kills it in every way except total pixels and extra reach from the crop.

strange low iso noise - i do pixel peep when editing my shots especially when doing noise reduction lots of people complain about this too

high iso noise - I quite happily shoot at 3200 ISO with both the 5Dmk2 and the 1Dmk3 i would be scared to push above 1600 with the 7D

having said that I got my parents a 600D for xmas and it's good for them they are just learning the whole dslr thing and arent shooting client deliverables and weddings so in this regard the sensor is more than sufficient and handily smashes most point and shoots

 

[vaust]

I too am waiting for the T4i, am thinking canon will probably launch a couple or a range of new stuffs instead of just 1 5dmk3 for the eos 25th anniversary. Keeping my fingers crossed. I am guessing the 1100d/600d/5dmk3 and a couple of ixus.

 

[kdsand]

For the t 4 eye to be an advancement would it not have to surpassed the 60D and approach the 7D? it seems to me that we would see a new 7 d mark 2 first then we would have trickle down once again into the rebels. Seems like we're at the point where the 7D sales are gonna be totally cannibalized .

 

[jrista]

i would hope the t4i debuts a new APS-C sensor that addresses the shortcomings of the existing 18MP sensor
also since the entry level is very sales driven based on that all important benchmark of pixels I think canon will need to trump the sony 24MP so i am guessing we will see a 27MP sensor (discalimer this can be taken as CR-3 since i just pulled that number out of my butt)

I would be skeptical of a 27mp APS-C. Based on real-world Canon lens MTF's done by third parties, even their best lenses are barely capable (or not even capable) of resolving enough detail for an 18mp APS-C, which is 116 lp/mm spatial resolution. At 27mp, an APS-C sensor would be somewhere around 6300x4300 pixels, which would be a little over 144 lp/mm in terms of spatial resolution. A truly perfect f/4 lens (which are not all that common...even the best lenses don't yet approach perfection) can resolve 173 lp/mm, and optical aberrations tend to reduce the resolution of wider lenses such as f/2.8 and particularly f/1.8 or f/1.4 more than diffraction does at f/22 for all but the most expensive (think in the price range of something like the 600mm f/4 L II.)

I'm not a huge fan of DXOMark's lens tests, however they are the only one I can find for one of Canon's higher quality lenses...in this case the 70-200 f/2.8 L II (simply because its what a quick search came up with...I'll see if I can get better info tomorrow.) (See: http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Lenses/Camera-Lens-Database/Canon/Canon-EF70-200mm-f28L-IS-II-USM/(camera)/619/(cameraname)/Canon-EOS-7D)

DXO only seems to generate MTF's for lenses wide open, where they are often at their WORST (or at best, not at their best), so I can't say exactly how good this lens is at its peak (which is probably around f/4, and even there is unlikely to actually reach perfection). At f/2.8 the 70-200 L II only achieves 51lp/mm! Assuming it approached perfection at f/4, you might get around 170 lp/mm out of it. According to TDP ISO charts (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=687&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=3&API=2&LensComp=687&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0), it looks like resolution for the 70-200 f/2.8 L II peaks around f/4, and gets muddy around 3600-3800 lw/ph...which would be about 127lp/mm (assuming the 70-200 could clearly resolve the 4000 lw/ph that chart is capable of, your still only talking 134 lp/mm.) No matter what you do, even with an optically superb lens from Canon, your unlikely to resolve 144 lp/mm, let alone 173lp/mm. In the average case, your going to resolve far less, and that could be (rough guess) anywhere from 50 lp/mm to 110 lp/mm or so. In the average case, a 27mp APS-C sensor is going to far out resolve just about any lens you put on it.

I can only imagine the pixel-peeper shitstorm that would conjure up... ;P

 

[wickidwombat]

Ah see you are using crazy things like physics! I was only talking from a pure marketing BS perspective that they must beat sony to get the win at best buy.

Anyone tested out what the 18-55 kit lens can resolve?

 

[coolshooter]

I'm waiting for 650D too.

One question about XXXD line. If it is a line for photographers-beginners (or amateurs with little money), then why they should require so many megapixles?
Aren't megapixels for studio (or landscape) photographers, who can shoot REALLY well and make money on this?
What is the profit of 18 mp if a person can't shoot well?

Further more, 18mp require really good AF (if one shoots portraits), very good lenses (calibrated in service-centre), micro AF adjustment (which is missing in XXXd) and good patience when pictures are somewhat out of focus.

Am I the only one who sees that xxxd line is not "well balanced" in terms of feautures and target audience?

Most of the time I shoot in clubs, I need clean high iso, accurate AF, excellent background blur => "sports camera" is for me, however, there is not a single canon camera that is targeted for such audience under 1Dx ((

 

[wickidwombat]

I'm waiting for 650D too.

One question about XXXD line. If it is a line for photographers-beginners (or amateurs with little money), then why they should require so many megapixles?
Aren't megapixels for studio (or landscape) photographers, who can shoot REALLY well and make money on this?
What is the profit of 18 mp if a person can't shoot well?

Further more, 18mp require really good AF (if one shoots portraits), very good lenses (calibrated in service-centre), micro AF adjustment (which is missing in XXXd) and good patience when pictures are somewhat out of focus.

Am I the only one who sees that xxxd line is not "well balanced" in terms of feautures and target audience?

Most of the time I shoot in clubs, I need clean high iso, accurate AF, excellent background blur => "sports camera" is for me, however, there is not a single canon camera that is targeted for such audience under 1Dx ((

5Dmk2 at 3200 iso with a 50mm f1.4 center focus point you will be fine. upcoming price drops for new or cheaper second hand might be more in line with what you need

 

[dichiaras]

DXO only seems to generate MTF's for lenses wide open, where they are often at their WORST (or at best, not at their best), so I can't say exactly how good this lens is at its peak (which is probably around f/4, and even there is unlikely to actually reach perfection).

For the lens of your choice, jrista, you should go to the menu measurements>resolution>field map.
There you can select the aperture/focal length combination of your liking, and see the IR over the whole field. It's very important to select the camera you plan to use the given lens with: if you check an L series lens with a 70D or a 5DII you can notice a big difference in resolution.

PS I'm a physicist, and love DxO reviews.

 

[Adobespain]

I am waiting for the T4i aka 650d as well.
I don't want more MPixels (i hope canon is cleaver and dont participate in the pixel war) I want too better sensibility and I want Digic 5.
More options for video and headphone plug.

I don't ask too much, just the basics.
aslo I hope tomorrow March-2 will be the day of the announcement!

 

[crasher7]

I've owned two rebels. 300 and 550 but after you work with a 60D or a 7D you realize the potential of a crop body and when surrounded by all the 5D3 insanity you can't help but wonder "Where's the top o' the crop's new body?"

The upcoming 4i may be sweet music to some ears but it will certainly be trickle down and a small dose at that. Hell, Rebel owners want an upgrade? Get ML! It's the 70D/7D2 conundrum that's killing me.

 

[Ryan708]

What I feel canon should do, and seems to make the most sence, would be to come out with a 7dMk2 (or 8d, call it whatever you want) with a new and improved sensor (a tad more megapixels to keep up with the war, but mostly reduced noise, and maybe digic 5?) keep the 8FPS shooting, improve the autofocus, yadda yadda. And then trickle that new sensor down to a 70d (made of metal again with micro adjustment!) and then down into a t4I. I feel like canon has turned it's back on the
people in my price range when they came out with the 60d.

 

[roombarobot]

Please forgive the ignorant question, but I need your help in understanding what would make a 60D better than the T3i/T4i. (I know that the T4i isn't released, but think about the T3i and maybe an update or two). I know the body is built better, but it has the same sensor. What are the main things that justify 2x the price?

Thanks for your help in understanding this, I'll be buying a new dslr soon and want to know more.

 

[moreorless]

I'm waiting for 650D too.

One question about XXXD line. If it is a line for photographers-beginners (or amateurs with little money), then why they should require so many megapixles?
Aren't megapixels for studio (or landscape) photographers, who can shoot REALLY well and make money on this?
What is the profit of 18 mp if a person can't shoot well?

Further more, 18mp require really good AF (if one shoots portraits), very good lenses (calibrated in service-centre), micro AF adjustment (which is missing in XXXd) and good patience when pictures are somewhat out of focus.

Am I the only one who sees that xxxd line is not "well balanced" in terms of feautures and target audience?

Most of the time I shoot in clubs, I need clean high iso, accurate AF, excellent background blur => "sports camera" is for me, however, there is not a single canon camera that is targeted for such audience under 1Dx ((

I'd guess most manifacturers feel that such users are likely to buy higher end bodies such as the 7D which wasnt "bad" at high ISO when released. If Canon do carry on the 7D, xxD and xxxD lines I wouldnt actually be supprized to see them carrying different sensors with the 7D sticking at 18 MP for improved ISO while the other two get 20+ megapixels.

I do think theres a market for a smaller DSLR with features similar to the 7D though, espeically as we see camera slike the Fuji X1pro and the NEX 7 targetting the higher end crop market with small bodies. The xxxD's were well suited to competing with existing M43 and the lower end NEX's but they arent really offering an alternative to these newer mirrorlesses.

 

[rh18]

Please forgive the ignorant question, but I need your help in understanding what would make a 60D better than the T3i/T4i. (I know that the T4i isn't released, but think about the T3i and maybe an update or two). I know the body is built better, but it has the same sensor. What are the main things that justify 2x the price?

Thanks for your help in understanding this, I'll be buying a new dslr soon and want to know more.

I have a t2i right now and two things that I would love to have is the LCD on top and the 60D has cross-type AF points all the way around. The 60D also has better controls to make it faster to work with. One thing I hate on the t2i is how much fiddling around you have to do to change AF points... and then when you go to an outside AF point, it sucks (or maybe I suck, who knows). On the 60D, you can set it up so that you can change points with a single "click".

There are plenty of other upgrades as well but I can't think of them off the top of my head. I think it all depends on how you will be using the camera and what's important to you. If you do some googling, you will find that there have been several comparisons of the t2/3i and the 60D which go over the differences in detail.

 

[Ryan708]

I own a 60d, upgraded from a t1i. A t3i has the same sensor and high iso performance as far as i can tell. I like the 60d's9 AF points all being cross type. I have noticed a much faster AF esp. in dim light. Even my cheap 50mm 1.8 lens focuses fast now. The 60d has a better build quality, and a touch of weatherproofing, 1/8000 max shutter speed, 5.3 FPS, wich is a noticable amount more than the t3i 3.7 FPS. I wish the 60d still had a magnesium body and micro focus adjustment. Interestingly my sigma 17-70 2.8-4 lens had a slight front focus problem on my T1i, and on the 60d it does not.