Sold all my canon gear . . . Then bought a 70d

[cesjr]

So i bought a rebel xti in 2007 or so and bought only full frame lenses thinking gosh in 5, 6 years Canon will make a full frame camera I can afford. I like low light shooting, so I waited and waited. Didn't upgrade my xti. Well it never happened - Canon just never brought full frame down the line up. Will it ever happen? And maybe I could find a deal on the 6d but no flash is annoying since it's handy in a pinch. I started to feel like I made a mistake with my whole system (28 1.8, 50 1.4, 85 1.8, 28-135, 70-300). Limited wide angle, lenses bigger than I need, no affordable prosumer full frame in sight.

So I sold it all on ebay over the weekend. Bought the fuji x100s that I've drooled over for years for its high sync speed and awesome daylight fill flash. That's my new low light indoors camera, with higher ISO than I've ever had and will never have with the affordable full frame Canon won't make. And far smaller than lugging an SLR.

But I still needed an SLR. I thought about going Nikon for 15 minutes just because I'm mad at Canon. And it seems Canon has just been using the same crop sensors for years (one reason I never upgraded the xti)

But the 70D got me with the video focusing and the STM lenses. Got a 18-135 and 55-250. My iphone shoots great video but not far for kids soccer, family sports, etc. Sure I could buy a camcorder but then which do I bring to the event?

And boy those crop lenses are cheap and small. Wow I can even afford the new 10-18 IS STM coming out. I think I can live with the lack of full frame SLR.

 

[Dylan777]

Welcome back.....

I might be the odd one here, but I do wish next 5D will have swivel screen and faster AF in liveview.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

You can buy a FF body for a little more than a 70d, if you watch the Canon refurb store for their 20% off sales.

I can't compare them, but am interested in a camera with the dual pixel sensor for video and liveview autofocus on a f/11 lens (100-400L with 2X TC). With the big sale now going on at B&H, I figure a 70D body would come in at $750 after the rebate and selling off the lens and printer. I'd keep the extra battery and SD card, the camera case is likely worth only $5. I've been procrastinating, I may yet do it.

 

[DRR]

I don't understand how you can say that Canon didn't bring FF down the lineup.

5D original price was $3299.
5DII original price was $2499.
6D original price was $2099.

6D current price, I've seen as low as $1299. That's a couple hundred dollars more than your 70D body, for a sensor that's over 2 and a half times as large.

How far down the lineup can you bring a FF sensor?

 

[ajfotofilmagem]

A decade ago I hear people saying:
"In the future all cameras will be full frame". :-\
It is true that 6D kit with 24-105 has reasonable price, but a couple of zoom lenses F2.8 still costing several thousand dollars, and weighing several kilograms. I prefer a good APS-C camera with a set of high quality F2.8 lens (or brighter), rather than 6D with F4 or darker lenses.

 

[AcutancePhotography]

Not many togs *need* full frame. A good crop camera with some good glass will serve you well.

 

[Khalai]

A decade ago I hear people saying:
"In the future all cameras will be full frame". :-\
It is true that 6D kit with 24-105 has reasonable price, but a couple of zoom lenses F2.8 still costing several thousand dollars, and weighing several kilograms. I prefer a good APS-C camera with a set of high quality F2.8 lens (or brighter), rather than 6D with F4 or darker lenses.

You do realise, that f/4 on FF is still thinner DoF than f/2.8 on APS-C, right? And since FF is usually at least one stop better at ISO performance, f/4 on FF can be considered f/2.8 on crop cameras in basic still scenario (not talking about hunting photons at night, freezing motion etc.). Also f/2.8 crop lenses are smaller only to a certain focal length, where aperture diameter cannot be overruled (70-200/2.8 e.g.) thus no weight savings. New Sigma 18-35/1.8 is certainly a viable reason to stay with the crop, but e.g. 17-55/2.8 IS USM on crop is basicly the same as 24-105/4L IS USM on FF (in terms of DoF and focal range).

(disclaimer: please let's not digress to mathematical definitions of DoF and other stuff, for the sake of simplicity and realworld usage, thanks )

 

[ajfotofilmagem]

A decade ago I hear people saying:
"In the future all cameras will be full frame". :-\
It is true that 6D kit with 24-105 has reasonable price, but a couple of zoom lenses F2.8 still costing several thousand dollars, and weighing several kilograms. I prefer a good APS-C camera with a set of high quality F2.8 lens (or brighter), rather than 6D with F4 or darker lenses.

You do realise, that f/4 on FF is still thinner DoF than f/2.8 on APS-C, right? And since FF is usually at least one stop better at ISO performance, f/4 on FF can be considered f/2.8 on crop cameras in basic still scenario (not talking about hunting photons at night, freezing motion etc.). Also f/2.8 crop lenses are smaller only to a certain focal length, where aperture diameter cannot be overruled (70-200/2.8 e.g.) thus no weight savings. New Sigma 18-35/1.8 is certainly a viable reason to stay with the crop, but e.g. 17-55/2.8 IS USM on crop is basicly the same as 24-105/4L IS USM on FF (in terms of DoF and focal range).
(disclaimer: please let's not digress to mathematical definitions of DoF and other stuff, for the sake of simplicity and realworld usage, thanks )

There is another advantage of APS-C, in addition to smaller size, reduced weight and price. Lens F2.8 will enable AF sensors dual cross type for added precision of focus, while F4 lenses do not.

 

[alexanderferdinand]

FF vs Crop: the Fuji X- Trans sensor is very tempting.......

 

[Khalai]

A decade ago I hear people saying:
"In the future all cameras will be full frame". :-\
It is true that 6D kit with 24-105 has reasonable price, but a couple of zoom lenses F2.8 still costing several thousand dollars, and weighing several kilograms. I prefer a good APS-C camera with a set of high quality F2.8 lens (or brighter), rather than 6D with F4 or darker lenses.

You do realise, that f/4 on FF is still thinner DoF than f/2.8 on APS-C, right? And since FF is usually at least one stop better at ISO performance, f/4 on FF can be considered f/2.8 on crop cameras in basic still scenario (not talking about hunting photons at night, freezing motion etc.). Also f/2.8 crop lenses are smaller only to a certain focal length, where aperture diameter cannot be overruled (70-200/2.8 e.g.) thus no weight savings. New Sigma 18-35/1.8 is certainly a viable reason to stay with the crop, but e.g. 17-55/2.8 IS USM on crop is basicly the same as 24-105/4L IS USM on FF (in terms of DoF and focal range).
(disclaimer: please let's not digress to mathematical definitions of DoF and other stuff, for the sake of simplicity and realworld usage, thanks )

There is another advantage of APS-C, in addition to smaller size, reduced weight and price. Lens F2.8 will enable AF sensors dual cross type for added precision of focus, while F4 lenses do not.

Well, as for reduced size and weight, that's questionable, as my 6D is lighter and a bit smaller than my 7D

AF focus points is 100% valid, that's true...

 

[e17paul]

So i bought a rebel xti in 2007 or so and bought only full frame lenses thinking gosh in 5, 6 years Canon will make a full frame camera I can afford. I like low light shooting, so I waited and waited. Didn't upgrade my xti. Well it never happened - Canon just never brought full frame down the line up. Will it ever happen? And maybe I could find a deal on the 6d but no flash is annoying since it's handy in a pinch. I started to feel like I made a mistake with my whole system (28 1.8, 50 1.4, 85 1.8, 28-135, 70-300). Limited wide angle, lenses bigger than I need, no affordable prosumer full frame in sight.

So I sold it all on ebay over the weekend. Bought the fuji x100s that I've drooled over for years for its high sync speed and awesome daylight fill flash. That's my new low light indoors camera, with higher ISO than I've ever had and will never have with the affordable full frame Canon won't make. And far smaller than lugging an SLR.

But I still needed an SLR. I thought about going Nikon for 15 minutes just because I'm mad at Canon. And it seems Canon has just been using the same crop sensors for years (one reason I never upgraded the xti)

But the 70D got me with the video focusing and the STM lenses. Got a 18-135 and 55-250. My iphone shoots great video but not far for kids soccer, family sports, etc. Sure I could buy a camcorder but then which do I bring to the event?

And boy those crop lenses are cheap and small. Wow I can even afford the new 10-18 IS STM coming out. I think I can live with the lack of full frame SLR.

Give it another 5 years and your wait for full frame at the price of the 70D or even a Rebel will be over. The street price of the 6D has fallen by more than a quarter since launch, and increased competition from Sony and others will drive it further. The price of sensors is following Moore's law, it just takes longer. But if the setup is good for now, that's all that counts.

 

[cesjr]

I don't understand how you can say that Canon didn't bring FF down the lineup.

5D original price was $3299.
5DII original price was $2499.
6D original price was $2099.

6D current price, I've seen as low as $1299. That's a couple hundred dollars more than your 70D body, for a sensor that's over 2 and a half times as large.

How far down the lineup can you bring a FF sensor?

Well it's 1299 on refurb sometimes but 1699 normally. It's a bit older now too- will the next version be 1299 on release? Also no built in flash which I like to use from time to time. Also the EF-s lenses are much cheaper and the newer ones are quite good optically. The new 10-18 is on my buy list and I never thought I could afford a lens like that.

Mostly I just got sick of waiting for a $1000-ish full frame from Canon after waiting for what seemed like forever. Yes maybe another five years it will come but what if it doesn't?

I'm probably going to shoot my x100s 75% of the time anyways, which I just love so far. I just need the SLR for telephoto and action, ie to do what the fuji can't.

I can tell you one thing Canon needs to add is a hybrid OVF/EVF like the fuji. The 70D rear screen is tough in sunlight - I'm probably going to buy a Kinotehnik LCDVF

 

[sagittariansrock]

I don't understand how you can say that Canon didn't bring FF down the lineup.

5D original price was $3299.
5DII original price was $2499.
6D original price was $2099.

6D current price, I've seen as low as $1299. That's a couple hundred dollars more than your 70D body, for a sensor that's over 2 and a half times as large.

How far down the lineup can you bring a FF sensor?

Well it's 1299 on refurb sometimes but 1699 normally. It's a bit older now too- will the next version be 1299 on release? Also no built in flash which I like to use from time to time. Also the EF-s lenses are much cheaper and the newer ones are quite good optically. The new 10-18 is on my buy list and I never thought I could afford a lens like that.

Mostly I just got sick of waiting for a $1000-ish full frame from Canon after waiting for what seemed like forever. Yes maybe another five years it will come but what if it doesn't?

I'm probably going to shoot my x100s 75% of the time anyways, which I just love so far. I just need the SLR for telephoto and action, ie to do what the fuji can't.

I can tell you one thing Canon needs to add is a hybrid OVF/EVF like the fuji. The 70D rear screen is tough in sunlight - I'm probably going to buy a Kinotehnik LCDVF

Quite surprised that you never considered the 5D given you were using the ancient XTi.
My 9-year old, third-hand 5D is still better than any APS-C sensor IQ-wise.

 

[killswitch]

Welcome back.....

I might be the odd one here, but I do wish next 5D will have swivel screen and faster AF in liveview.

+1

Dylan, you are not the only one. I was thinking I was the only too lol. I am using the 5DIII, and also use the 60D (which has the swivel screen) occasionally. There are times during landscape photography when the 5D mounted on a nearly 6 feet tall tripod at an awkward angle to take the shot it becomes difficult or rather impossible to see (and I am 5ft 10) what the camera is looking at. With the swivel screen added, at that height and angle it would have made life a lot easier to adjust camera's angle and orientation relative to the composition in mind. Plus, under bright daylight swivel comes in really handy. I miss the 60D in these situations.

 

[e17paul]

Welcome back.....

I might be the odd one here, but I do wish next 5D will have swivel screen and faster AF in liveview.

+1

Dylan, you are not the only one. I was thinking I was the only too lol. I am using the 5DIII, and also use the 60D (which has the swivel screen) occasionally. There are times during landscape photography when the 5D mounted on a nearly 6 feet tall tripod at an awkward angle to take the shot it becomes difficult or rather impossible to see (and I am 5ft 10) what the camera is looking at. With the swivel screen added, at that height and angle it would have made life a lot easier to adjust camera's angle and orientation relative to the composition in mind. Plus, under bright daylight swivel comes in really handy. I miss the 60D in these situations.

The alternative is the Eos remote app on a phone. That's not good for handheld, but even more versatile than a flappy screen when not holding the camera. Now, if only there was focus peaking and native support for the iPad's larger screen....

The downside is battery drain with the camera's WiFi switched on, and the 6D insists on displaying an image on its own screen when the iPhone app is being used.

 

[alexturton]

You do realise, that f/4 on FF is still thinner DoF than f/2.8 on APS-C, right?

This is incorrect. A lens mounted on full frame or crop will deliver the same dof at the same aperture. Ie if you mount a 50 1.4 on a 70d or a 6d both will have the same dof. It's the same glass. But the angle of view will obviously be a lot wider on 6d

 

[AlanF]

You do realise, that f/4 on FF is still thinner DoF than f/2.8 on APS-C, right?

This is incorrect. A lens mounted on full frame or crop will deliver the same dof at the same aperture. Ie if you mount a 50 1.4 on a 70d or a 6d both will have the same dof. It's the same glass. But the angle of view will obviously be a lot wider on 6d

According to the Depth of Field calculator you are both wrong.

http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html

The depth of field is thicker for the same lens on FF for a subject at the same distance because the field of view is greater for FF.

 

[Khalai]

You do realise, that f/4 on FF is still thinner DoF than f/2.8 on APS-C, right?

This is incorrect. A lens mounted on full frame or crop will deliver the same dof at the same aperture. Ie if you mount a 50 1.4 on a 70d or a 6d both will have the same dof. It's the same glass. But the angle of view will obviously be a lot wider on 6d

According to the Depth of Field calculator you are both wrong.

http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html

The depth of field is thicker for the same lens on FF for a subject at the same distance because the field of view is greater for FF.

There goes my disclaimer in my post - totally unread by both of you Get 7D with 17-55/2.8 and alongside with it 6D with 24-105/4L. Compose the image, so it has the same ANGLE of view, same framing, same EV value (with 2.8 for crop and 4 for fullframe with 1-stop higher ISO ofc) and then compare the DoF...

 

[AlanF]

Apologies - I read it the first time and forgot on replying to the second post.

 

[bdunbar79]

You do realise, that f/4 on FF is still thinner DoF than f/2.8 on APS-C, right?

This is incorrect. A lens mounted on full frame or crop will deliver the same dof at the same aperture. Ie if you mount a 50 1.4 on a 70d or a 6d both will have the same dof. It's the same glass. But the angle of view will obviously be a lot wider on 6d

NO!