"Sony Upsets full frame market"

[bholliman]

Not sure about the accuracy of the information, just ran across this and thought I would share.

http://www.heise.de/foto/artikel/Sony-G-Master-Objektive-Erste-Bilder-mit-FE-24-70mm-F2-8-und-FE-85mm-F1-4-3099466.html?hg=2&hgi=1&hgf=false

(article 2nd on this page, half way down)



http://www.++++++++rumors.com/sony-surpassed-canon-and-nikon-in-the-german-full-frame-market/

 

[Loswr]

For two months. In one country. Maybe.

That proves it – Canon is doomed!

 

[johnnycash]

Misinformed people buying Sony gear and getting upset about their decision later when they discover what a pile of junk it is. That's meant by "Sony Upsets full frame market"

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

I've been saying for years that Both Canon and Nikon are more concerned about Sony than with each other.

There are a large number of people who see Sony as a premium brand, and will pay more to get one of their cameras.

It has nothing to do with quality or reliability, but perception of the buyers. Certainly, Canon, and Nikon are highly thought of, but Sony is someone who can cut into their share of the market in a serious way. If the market were expanding, it wouldn't matter, but its shrinking.

Sony has been dumping lots of $$ into sensors, and suddenly woke up one day to find their orders cancelled by cell phone companies that have cut production, or are dropping out. Cell phone ownership is saturated, and sales are tanking. The big money in sensor sales has been cell phones, so Sony lost money last quarter on Sensor sales.

Canon is in the best financial position of the three, and they are looking to invest in other areas that are related, but where they can be number one. Surveillance Cameras, for example, where there is a big market for high end equipment by governments, and large corporations who are willing to pay the high price for the best.

Canon is good at milking sales out of older products and turning in profits where others are losing. Don't expect Canon to throw a ton of money into a declining market, they will continue to keep purse strings very tight.

 

[TeT]

Interestinggoogle did the translation, but it is clear enough) "The autofocus of the standard zoom works very quickly and quietly. The '85, however was the automatic focusing perceptible noises and also worked not quite as fast"

So the 85 is slow noisy and expensive...

 

[tpatana]

Interestinggoogle did the translation, but it is clear enough) "The autofocus of the standard zoom works very quickly and quietly. The '85, however was the automatic focusing perceptible noises and also worked not quite as fast"

So the 85 is slow noisy and expensive...

I'd be upset about that.

 

[eml58]

I've been saying for years that Both Canon and Nikon are more concerned about Sony than with each other.

There are a large number of people who see Sony as a premium brand, and will pay more to get one of their cameras.

It has nothing to do with quality or reliability, but perception of the buyers. Certainly, Canon, and Nikon are highly thought of, but Sony is someone who can cut into their share of the market in a serious way. If the market were expanding, it wouldn't matter, but its shrinking.

Sony has been dumping lots of $$ into sensors, and suddenly woke up one day to find their orders cancelled by cell phone companies that have cut production, or are dropping out. Cell phone ownership is saturated, and sales are tanking. The big money in sensor sales has been cell phones, so Sony lost money last quarter on Sensor sales.

Canon is in the best financial position of the three, and they are looking to invest in other areas that are related, but where they can be number one. Surveillance Cameras, for example, where there is a big market for high end equipment by governments, and large corporations who are willing to pay the high price for the best.

Canon is good at milking sales out of older products and turning in profits where others are losing. Don't expect Canon to throw a ton of money into a declining market, they will continue to keep purse strings very tight.

Completely agree, I've a owned, and still own, Sony Cameras, and for what I purchased them for, they work better than anything I've had from Canon, or Nikon. I own Canon & Nikon Cameras because they work better at the job I purchased them for than anything from Sony.

What Sony are doing is working on the areas that Nikon & Canon just don't seem to be able to compete in, smaller more feature full camera systems, and it's a mixed bag at present, but I can see Sony slowly eating into that Market that in the past has been all Nikon/Canon, I don't know if they can pull off an "Apple" here, probably not, but they are getting Market share, and the products are getting better, and they don't seem to be shy at putting the latest and best features into their Cameras, Nikon/Canon have always held back on the features until they seem to have to throw some innovation into the next iteration to save flagging sales, 5D2 with video, 5DsR with 50 MP sensor, 1Dx with 14fps etc etc.

Hope Sony can keep it up, keeps the big boys on their toes.

 

[madmailman]

Don't about the full frame market but Sony for sure has upset me. I got one of their expensive Android TV's only to find there is only about 7 apps in the Play Store for it.



P.S. And none of the apps are ESPN.

 

[expatinasia]

I greatly admire what Sony has been doing to stir up the camera market, but one of their weaknesses is not just the limited number of quality lenses, the poor menu system etc. it is their longevity.

A few years ago, they had a great line of super-light high-end Vaio Z laptops. They weren't cheap, but they were packed full of power and had a good following of users. A year or so ago they sold off the company.

Not long ago they were talking about their Xperia Z mobile phones some of which had a 4K screen. Sony just this week said the Xperia Z brand is dead and is being replaced by their newly announced Xperia X-line.

While these are different divisions within Sony, it is still the same brand, and frankly I am sure it worries some people.

 

[martti]

I am not sure how I am supposed to react.
Maybe I just watch some cat videos and update my FB status.
Why should I be concerned about the way the Germans use their extra money?

 

[LDS]

Every 2 years Apple dumps its old phone and comes out with a new one (the inbetween is a minor bump.)

Apple has an habit to keep old models value high enough to make the brand still compelling for those who can't afford the latest one through the used market, which is fairly alive.

Thus it supports most older models in newer iOS releases - unlike other brands that stop support as soon as get the phone.

That's something which is far more important when it comes to a far more expensive camera system. Its support and value over the years is important.

 

[kaswindell]

If you follow Matt Granger you might know that he uses Sony alongside his Nikon gear. He also has mentioned that the Sony has overheated on him on a number of occasions. I can only afford one camera system, and if I am going to haul my fat butt and camera up a mountain the camera better work, 100% of the time, period. If I were to consider something lighter it would be Fuji or Olympus, Sony doesn't make the short list at all, regardless of what the Germans are buying.

 

[expatinasia]

Not long ago they were talking about their Xperia Z mobile phones some of which had a 4K screen. Sony just this week said the Xperia Z brand is dead and is being replaced by their newly announced Xperia X-line.

So? These are all consumer electronics devices that do age rapidly. Do you think your 5-10 year old phone is going to work very well with facebook? Does it do 4GX? Stream youtube?

Every 2 years Apple dumps its old phone and comes out with a new one (the inbetween is a minor bump.)

The Z-line of Sony Xperia phones only came out about 2 or 3 months ago!! There was big hoo-hah as it was the first mobile in the world with a 4K display.

My point here, is that it does not matter if you are buying an A7, RX1 or RX100 etc, it is quite a small investment.

But when they start making long pro lenses which cost US$ 7,000 or more to try and capture the sport photographer market, then the buyer will want to know that they are in for the long run, that support will be there for them.

I am not sure I would trust Sony in that regard.

 

[martti]

I have had two Sony X-perias brick on me.
I would not recommend it to a friend.

 

[bholliman]

Sony offers an interesting contrast to Canon and Nikon. Sony offers some innovative products with leading edge features and technology, but with poor product support, a less desirable user interface and limited "system" of lenses, flash equipment, etc. when compared with the big 2.

For enthusiast willing to pursue features and technology and roll the dice on support and system, it's a nice option.

 

[J.R.]

Sony offers an interesting contrast to Canon and Nikon. Sony offers some innovative products with leading edge features and technology, but with poor product support, a less desirable user interface and limited "system" of lenses, flash equipment, etc. when compared with the big 2.

For enthusiast willing to pursue features and technology and roll the dice on support and system, it's a nice option.

Aye, I've thought about getting a Sony at various points of time in the recent past only because of the novelty. After having used one, it isn't going to become my primary rig anytime soon.

 

[nonac]

I don't trust the "brand" anymore. I've had Sony products (not cameras) fail me in the past, the most recent being a $2k+ TV that died within days of the warranty expiration. Sony will never see anymore of my money, I don't care how good the reviews are.

 

[martti]

+1

 

[Maximilian]

... If I were to consider something lighter it would be Fuji or Olympus, Sony doesn't make the short list at all, regardless of what the Germans are buying.

+1 lighter and smaller don't go together with FF. Only with smaller sensors and brands as suggested by you.

I am German - but maybe not a representative
I speak a lot to other German photogs and Sony has no good overall standing although IQ and some features are recognized.
And I have never met any professional here using Sony (studio, event, nature, sports).
But as I said: maybe not representative.

 

[moreorless]

I've been saying for years that Both Canon and Nikon are more concerned about Sony than with each other.

There are a large number of people who see Sony as a premium brand, and will pay more to get one of their cameras.

It has nothing to do with quality or reliability, but perception of the buyers. Certainly, Canon, and Nikon are highly thought of, but Sony is someone who can cut into their share of the market in a serious way. If the market were expanding, it wouldn't matter, but its shrinking.

I think the Sony brand still does have a bit of a draw to the tech head than Canon and Nikon lack but really I'm not sure this is an especially desirable part of the market.

As you say Canon and Nikon are good at exploiting the market for products over a number of years so investment tends to pay off well for them. The kind of people that buy Sony though tend to be drawn to the latest releases only which means constant investment in new tech.

Ignoring lower end compacts in the last decade Sony has most likely released more cameras than either Canon or Nikon and actually I wouldn't be supprized if they've released more lenses as well with the A-mount, E-mount and now FE-mount where as the big two have focused mostly on their core DSLR mount.

With the FE system generally its hardly supprizing that its increased Sony's turnover, its a new product targeting a previously unexploited market. The question becomes is it offering a return on investment.