Sorry 5D3, Insufficient Value

[Marsu42]

some of you do not know what the word "invest" means

Actually, when studying economy I was told that as a private individual, you cannot invest at all - only consume or save. The only entities that can "invest" are businesses, I guess being a freelance pro photog counts as such. While that of course is pure nomenclature, it reminded me of not being too smart when economic theory clashes with real world discussions.

 

[solarpos]

some of you do not know what the word "invest" means

invest if when you spend $10 today, and after an x amount of time, the value of your initial "deposit" or "investition" or "purchase" increases

Quick - tell that to Wall Street and the real estate market. Clearly, they lack your pithy understanding of the word 'invest'.

You might want to include yourself in the 'some of you' group after you read this article indicating that a 'lens price index' has solidly outperformed the major stock market indices over the past several years.

ZING!

 

[psolberg]

5DII owner and see no reason to upgrade at all. 90% convinced I'll be shooting a D800 this summer based on how things are going (assuming I can even buy one since demand has left none anywhere in the continental US)

 

[Viggo]

I find it impossible to loose as I invest in memories...

 

[preppyak]

Quick - tell that to Wall Street and the real estate market. Clearly, they lack your pithy understanding of the word 'invest'.

Ha, or to the hundreds of thousands of people who have lost money in the stock market for that matter. They might also call it "throwing money away", but, it's investing as well. It's only the expectation of growth that constitutes investing, "successful investing" would be those who made money.

Gotta say, a camera is much better than most other big ticket items in holding price. My TV is worthless 3 years from now, my car is worth at best half the price, I couldn't give away my smartphone to a homeless person...the list goes on.

 

[kirispupis]

What I find funny is how all of the negative '5D3 isn't worth it' replies are coming from people who do not actually own the camera. I did upgrade from the 5D2 to the 5D3 and absolutely find it to be worth it. The shots that I will take in the next few years that I could not have taken without the 5D3's AF or high ISO quality will easily pay for it.

Stop looking at the numbers. Go out there and actually try to camera before commenting on it.

 

[NormanBates]

I don't find it surprising at all:
* people who decide 5D3 is worth the upgrade, buy one
* people who decide it's not, stick to their old camera or switch to the D800, so they don't own a 5D3

the question is: how many people are there of each kind?
looking at the dxomark and dpreview results, and at the sales numbers at amazon, I have my guess
(and yes, I know it's out of stock; but given how few cameras are actually sold, that only tells me Canon has manufacturing issues, not that demand is high)

 

[kennykodak]

i bought a 5d3. is it perfect, no. but it is much improved over the 5D2. i didn't buy it for an investment, i would collect old Leica's if that was my goal. i use it as a full time photographer. it is a tool in my toolbox that i felt would make my life easier. two card slots and enhanced focus points was enough for me. i bought my first Canon in '72 (F-1). i bought my first Nikon six months later (F2). it's insane to have both systems and the "my dog is bigger than your dog" game has never changed. i also use digital Hasselblad, and it is no way an investment. my point, if it feels good, works well and is reliable use it. new cameras are like new cars, they depreciate while sitting on the lot. i don't need a Shelby to get the groceries.

 

[Marsu42]

What I find funny is how all of the negative '5D3 isn't worth it' replies are coming from people who do not actually own the camera.

There is always a bias in evaluations of lenses and camera bodies. Of course there is a negative "I cannot afford it and am envious" negative bias. But if you'd wish that only people that have tried (i.e. owned) the object for an extended time, there is a positive bias just as people mostly say their holiday was great even when it was raining 24/7. The amount of people who bought it and don't think it's "not worth it" should be near zero because it's a contradiction in itself.

In addition to that, "worth" is relative because it can be a) "worth relative to buying lenses for $3500" or b) "worth" relative to one's income or savings.

I think it is valid to make up one's mind based on tech specs, iq comparisons and reading many reviews, and I don't think having something in your hand magically adds something to this apart from the fact that all current dslr bodies are "good and fun to shoot with".

 

[Loswr]

Gotta say, a camera is much better than most other big ticket items in holding price. My TV is worthless 3 years from now, my car is worth at best half the price, I couldn't give away my smartphone to a homeless person...the list goes on.

Very true. A six-year-old, well used 5D can still be sold for close to $1K, which is a third of its original value, and from a business accounting standpoint, it would be a fully depreciated asset by now.

 

[kirispupis]

What I find funny is how all of the negative '5D3 isn't worth it' replies are coming from people who do not actually own the camera.

I think it is valid to make up one's mind based on tech specs, iq comparisons and reading many reviews, and I don't think having something in your hand magically adds something to this apart from the fact that all current dslr bodies are "good and fun to shoot with".

Properly done reviews are useful, but nothing takes the place of actually trying it out for yourself. It's kind of like reading a review on a new Ferrari. Sure, I can read a review and make a call whether it's worth it, but ultimately if I need to know what the car is truly like I need to get inside one and drive it.

I read quite a bit of info and looked at a lot of sample images of the 5D3 before mine arrived, but there's a big difference between seeing someone else's ISO 12800 shots and examining your own. Only when you integrate the camera into your professional workflow can you truly see how well the camera fits you.

Keep in mind that my definition of "worth it" is entirely a professional one. The way I see it, if the income I make from shots not possible (or not sellable) with my 5D2 but possible and sellable from my 5D3 exceeds $3500, then the camera is worth it. So far, the combination of high ISO performance, much better AF, and little things like the viewfinder leveler mean that for my uses this is very likely the case.

For the hobbyist this is a more difficult decision and depends on where you put your values. Even a hobbyist, though, will not truly understand the value of the camera without trying it out.

 

[Marsu42]

Properly done reviews are useful, but nothing takes the place of actually trying it out for yourself. It's kind of like reading a review on a new Ferrari. Sure, I can read a review and make a call whether it's worth it, but ultimately if I need to know what the car is truly like I need to get inside one and drive it. For the hobbyist this is a more difficult decision and depends on where you put your values. Even a hobbyist, though, will not truly understand the value of the camera without trying it out.

As a pro it's easy because you can estimate "more shots sold or time saved vs upgrade price". For amateurs, I think your "Ferrari" comparison is a good one. A Ferrari is a car that takes you from A to B just like a camera takes pictures. You might get to B faster in a Ferrari, but to say if this is worth it you have to take the luxury factor into account - some countries even add taxes to these commodities because they are not strictly "necessary". And indeed: The "luxury factor" is one only experienced when touching the product.

And it seems a top camera body as an "unnecessary" luxury is what generates these heated discussion because the added "feel good" value of a 5d3 or Ferrari goes down the drain if other people laugh at you like "it's crazy to pay $3500 for this" or "Hey, I can spit on your head if you sit in this sports car". As a pro, you'd just say "So what? This is my working gear as a photog or race driver".

But if someone gets a 5d3 and likes it because its the greatest camera on the block, this is as good a reason as any for consumption - but it's even more personal than weight or size. So for the sake of a reasonable discussion, imho it would be useful to differentiate these things - and luckily, many people do when they write something like "the 5d3 is not that much of an upgrade but does x better in situation y - but in any case I like it and it's great".

 

[Random Orbits]

For the hobbyist this is a more difficult decision and depends on where you put your values. Even a hobbyist, though, will not truly understand the value of the camera without trying it out.

Not always. I'm a hobbyist and moved from a 20D to a 5DII recently. Because of the AF limitations of the 5DII, I knew that I'd be using the center point more than I'd like (same with the 20D) and have to crop more often, but because it is a hobby, it is a choice based on value. I got a Canon refurb 5DII for less than half the price a 5DIII. Do I wish that I have a camera that has better AF? Almost every time I use it, but not for the $1900 difference that I saved by getting a 5DII. I have more money tied up in Canon lenses than any body I'd consider, but that's my preference. I waited for the 5DIII to come up before making a choice and I'm glad I did. Now that I have the 5DII, the improvements of the 5DIII seem less and less worth it just because the difference is smaller than with the previous body. My position may change in the future when the 5DIII prices drop (or when they start being offered in the Canon refurb store), but right now a couple lenses and a good tripod system are higher priorities.

 

[wockawocka]

The plan that's evolved as a cheaper 5D3 solution for me is this:

1. Replace the T2i with a new 7D.

2. Upgrade (my interpretation) my walkaround lens from the 15-85mm to a 17-55mm.

3. Upgrade my 70-200 f/4.0L to a 70-200 f/4.0L IS.

4. Get a 10-22mm for the wide side.

Good luck with the 7D.

 

[distant.star]

VERY nicely said.

This is the product from the tools.

As sung by Barbra Streisand, "The Way We Were"


Memories, like the corners of my mind
Misty, water-colored memories of the way we were
Scattered pictures of the smiles we left behind
Smiles we gave to one another
For the way we were


Thanks much, Viggo.

I find it impossible to loose as I invest in memories...

 

[tron]

I admit the ducks I want to photo with my new 100-400 will have to be still or at least not fly and some photos I take at iso 1600-6400 range could be a better with a 5DIII but for the majority of the photos I take (landscapes) my 5DII is more than enough.

Due to lack of time it has done only 10-11K clicks. Plus it looks as good as new. I do not wish to sell it neither to declare it as a backup body.

 

[tron]

Also it just occurred to me that a few months ago (end of 2011) I have almost spent the amount of money 5DIII costs to get
1. 100-400 L 2. 70-200 f/2.8L IS II.

If I were to "zero" that counter for 2012 I can spend this amount to get a TS-E 17mm f/4 and a 8-15 or get nothing and
save for a 400mm DO or a used 500mm f/4L some time in 2013 or 2014.

 

[ScottyP]

The plan that's evolved as a cheaper 5D3 solution for me is this:

1. Replace the T2i with a new 7D.

2. Upgrade (my interpretation) my walkaround lens from the 15-85mm to a 17-55mm.

3. Upgrade my 70-200 f/4.0L to a 70-200 f/4.0L IS.

4. Get a 10-22mm for the wide side.

Good luck with the 7D.

Sounds like a good plan to me. My upgrade path for bodies stops at 7D, or whatever its micro-adjusting, magnesium-built, weather-sealed, fast-autofocusing, crop-sensored equivalent is in about 2 years.

 

[xps]

The question is often dominated by the money you can spend for this hobby. Some years ago, Canon lowered the price-bar you have to jump over to reach the technical heaven. The small pocket cameras are very good, but we all want an fantastic fast and good camera. We can take nice pictures, if they don´t move. But the www and all of the modern magazines show extraordinary pictures. And we do think that we can shoot such pictures too.
So we got addicted to own the newest technological acquisition. (just look at the computer/smartphone business).
And Canon knows that. Now they hung the bar higher. And many of us will try to jump over the bar.
It´s ok. Everyone has to decide it for his own.
I´m waiting for an 7D MKII too, the price gap is to wide for me. And, I rediscovered my 1V and 3. And I took some super shots at. And it was surprising, that an old slide, displayed on an 4*6m big slidescreen, looks that good.

 

[briansquibb]

For the cost of the lens I have bought in the last 6 months I could have had 5 x 5DIII. The odd $500 between the D800 and the 5DIII is trivial in the grand scheme of things