Still waiting for high MP canon while Nikon is coming out with new 800

[RLPhoto]

Very ignorant of you. Please go see d4s. It outperforms the 1dx period in sensor tech.

The performance of the two is nearly identical above ISO 800, and the D4s has a DR advantage below ISO 800. Plus, I can't hand-hold Nikon's 600/4.

Also…

Sony sensors do perform better at all ISO ranges.

AFAIK, Sony doesn't make the sensor in the D4s. Ignorance must be bliss for you…

Gee, Neuro. Would you write up the drug test studies with cherry-picked data too?
In the crop sensor and smaller world, the results are notably different.

Would you believe the results of testing a drug for Alzheimer's disease in a population of 20 year olds with asthma? Note that I said my Canon sensor in the use case I described. The point was, people make assumptions about their own, personal definition of 'better' without regard for the fact that their needs don't define the needs of everyone else.

Come back when m4/3 is outperforming FF sensors, we'll talk.

You confirmed my original comment to the letter. Your in denial and Sony sensor tech is better at the moment.

 

[R1-7D]

I went out shooting today with my 5D3. Got some great shots.

Then I thought...you know what would make these photos even better? Zero freaking shadows!!!! I pushed and pushed in post processing until there was nothing left to push. Man...the noise in the blacks was awful. I could barely make out a sign that was in some deep shade in the far upper left corner of my photo. After some noise reduction, and zooming in to 400%...I saw what the sign said:

Beware of Internet Trolls.


I was blown away. Had I been using the D800e, with its 30% better sharpness compared to the regular 800...and it's amazing dynamic range, I wouldn't have had to spend so much time figuring out what the sign said.


Tomorrow I'm going to go back to a creepy looking bridge I found and see what Trolls I can find in the shadows when I post-process.

 

[R1-7D]

Very ignorant of you. Please go see d4s. It outperforms the 1dx period in sensor tech.

The performance of the two is nearly identical above ISO 800, and the D4s has a DR advantage below ISO 800. Plus, I can't hand-hold Nikon's 600/4.

Also…

Sony sensors do perform better at all ISO ranges.

AFAIK, Sony doesn't make the sensor in the D4s. Ignorance must be bliss for you…

Gee, Neuro. Would you write up the drug test studies with cherry-picked data too?
In the crop sensor and smaller world, the results are notably different.

Would you believe the results of testing a drug for Alzheimer's disease in a population of 20 year olds with asthma? Note that I said my Canon sensor in the use case I described. The point was, people make assumptions about their own, personal definition of 'better' without regard for the fact that their needs don't define the needs of everyone else.

Come back when m4/3 is outperforming FF sensors, we'll talk.

I wouldn't bother anymore. Clearly the Nikon/Sony match-made-in-heaven is superior. You and your 1DX will have to just continue taking sub-par photos with poor dynamic range. Even if you think you've got a great picture that you've just taken, Dilbert and the crew here will assure you that your photo is lacking in sufficient DR for it to be worthwhile.

See the light. Spend more time on the internet researching this, and take less photos with what you have. C'mon

 

[traingineer]

I went out shooting today with my 5D3. Got some great shots.

Then I thought...you know what would make these photos even better? Zero freaking shadows!!!! I pushed and pushed in post processing until there was nothing left to push. Man...the noise in the blacks was awful. I could barely make out a sign that was in some deep shade in the far upper left corner of my photo. After some noise reduction, and zooming in to 400%...I saw what the sign said:

Beware of Internet Trolls.


I was blown away. Had I been using the D800e, with its 30% better sharpness compared to the regular 800...and it's amazing dynamic range, I wouldn't have had to spend so much time figuring out what the sign said.


Tomorrow I'm going to go back to a creepy looking bridge I found and see what Trolls I can find in the shadows when I post-process.

Darn trolls! Always hiding in the shadows, filling up the internet with lies and lame jokes!

Pro Tip: Since trolls have never seen people in real life, they easily get scared when an actual human is near by.

 

[R1-7D]

Re: DOUBLE SMACKDOWN on Neuro

Would you believe the results of testing a drug for Alzheimer's disease in a population of 20 year olds with asthma?

DOUBLE-SMACKDOWN!

Do you perhaps wear a spandex jumpsuit and grease up with vaseline before you come post here? I take you for a WWE/F fan.



But seriously, you've shown me the light/detail in the dark underexposed world I've been living in (get it? 'Cuz we're talking about DR). I'm selling my gear for Nikon and Sony stuff. I'm just worried about resale value now since my Canon gear is so subpar. Ugh...if only you were here on Canon Rumors sooner... before I bought everything.

Really my purchasing all this non-Nikon stuff is your fault. If I can blame a casino for gambling too much (which I did BTW), then I can blame you for my mistake in camera equipment.

 

[Orangutan]

You confirmed my original comment to the letter. Your in denial and Sony sensor tech is better at the moment.

According to this http://nikonrumors.com/2012/10/25/chipworks-report-on-the-sensors-used-in-nikon-dslr-cameras.aspx/

The D3, D3S and D4 sensors were designed by Nikon and fabricated by Renesas. It's fair to assume the same is true of the D4S.

Making a broad statement about who has the best tech on the market right now is a little difficult. Clearly, Canon's APS-C sensors are significantly behind several other camera makers. For FF, ya payz yer money and ya takes yer pitchers: find the body+lens combos that work for you and get to it.

Next flame-war thread: The Judean People's Front vs. The People's Front of Judea.

 

[R1-7D]

I went out shooting today with my 5D3. Got some great shots.

Then I thought...you know what would make these photos even better? Zero freaking shadows!!!! I pushed and pushed in post processing until there was nothing left to push. Man...the noise in the blacks was awful. I could barely make out a sign that was in some deep shade in the far upper left corner of my photo. After some noise reduction, and zooming in to 400%...I saw what the sign said:

Beware of Internet Trolls.


I was blown away. Had I been using the D800e, with its 30% better sharpness compared to the regular 800...and it's amazing dynamic range, I wouldn't have had to spend so much time figuring out what the sign said.


Tomorrow I'm going to go back to a creepy looking bridge I found and see what Trolls I can find in the shadows when I post-process.

Pro Tip: Since trolls have never seen people in real life, they easily get scared when an actual human is near by.

I'll shoot from a distance and just crop in.

Oh no! Damn...I wouldn't be able to crop as far because of my low 22 megapixel count!!!! If only I had the 36 MP monster that is the D800.

Damn Canon, again! Ugh.

 

[traingineer]

I went out shooting today with my 5D3. Got some great shots.

Then I thought...you know what would make these photos even better? Zero freaking shadows!!!! I pushed and pushed in post processing until there was nothing left to push. Man...the noise in the blacks was awful. I could barely make out a sign that was in some deep shade in the far upper left corner of my photo. After some noise reduction, and zooming in to 400%...I saw what the sign said:

Beware of Internet Trolls.


I was blown away. Had I been using the D800e, with its 30% better sharpness compared to the regular 800...and it's amazing dynamic range, I wouldn't have had to spend so much time figuring out what the sign said.


Tomorrow I'm going to go back to a creepy looking bridge I found and see what Trolls I can find in the shadows when I post-process.

Pro Tip: Since trolls have never seen people in real life, they easily get scared when an actual human is near by.

I'll shoot from a distance and just crop in.

Oh no! Damn...I wouldn't be able to crop as far because of my low 22 megapixel count!!!! If only I had the 36 MP monster that is the D800.

Damn Canon, again! Ugh.

Fun Fact: Internet Trolls are the people who make the sensor charts for DxO, they all love their glorious Nikon bodies/lenses.

 

[Sella174]

I don't get one part of this. Sony has the only FF mirrorless body out there now - and it allows those in the canon system to buy it without having to do a complete switch (how many of you are there are using an a7 with canon lenses???). Mirrorless is new and may or may not take off - and if it does who knows what form it will take. Pro grade equipment or mass market equipment. so both Canon and Nikon are letting sony do the market research for them. Canon is actually in a good position considering with this - early adopters aren't selling off their gear to switch, most are keeping their canon gear and adding the sony...

A few points, if I may.

Sony has the only FF mirrorless body out there now - and it allows those in the canon system to buy it without having to do a complete switch (how many of you are there are using an a7 with canon lenses???).

The "Metabones" adapter is (a) a stop-gap solution for Sony whilst they build a full stable of lenses, thus (b) enabling Canon/Nikon users to spread out the cost of the transition to Sony over a period of time. Nice of them, huh?

Mirrorless is new and may or may not take off ...

Mirrorless is already soaring with the eagles. Please accept it.

so both Canon and Nikon are letting sony do the market research for them.

Actually, Olympus did most of the market research and it is now all done. Sony, Panasonic, Olympus and FUJIFILM are now applying the results of that research and reaping the benefits. By the time Canon (and Nikon and Pentax) finally get going, all those people who are willing to embrace new technology (in the form of mirrorless) will be already using other systems than theirs. Now, you might argue the adapted lens stance, but remember that a company like Canon does not make the bulk of its "photographic" profit from the sale of 600mm lenses ... they make it from the sales of xxxD/Rebel with a single kit lens jobbies.

Canon is actually in a good position considering with this - early adopters aren't selling off their gear to switch, most are keeping their canon gear and adding the sony...

Nope (see above), but to reiterate: neuroanatomist made the argument regarding the majority and the minority. Well, does the majority of Canon users own a 600mm lens - or even any L-lens, for that matter? Nope, these people (who own grand lenses) form the minority and thus a niche market. And since the majority on this forum feel that niche markets are negligible, it means that the minority of people who actually do own a Sony with Canon glass and thus still contributing to Canon's revenue can effectively be disregarded. This then leaves the majority purchasing xxxD/Rebel cameras with a single kit lens ... how long will this last? A whole heap of 'em have already found that their iPhone is just as good and a whole lot more convenient than an oversized Canon DSLR camera. The P&S market already croaked because of it ... and I tell you as a fact that crippled "entry-level" DSLR's are next in line.

The future lies in (a) mirrorless and (b) high-MP mirrorless ... and the future is NOW.

 

[GMCPhotographics]

I went out shooting today with my 5D3. Got some great shots.

Then I thought...you know what would make these photos even better? Zero freaking shadows!!!! I pushed and pushed in post processing until there was nothing left to push. Man...the noise in the blacks was awful. I could barely make out a sign that was in some deep shade in the far upper left corner of my photo. After some noise reduction, and zooming in to 400%...I saw what the sign said:

Beware of Internet Trolls.


I was blown away. Had I been using the D800e, with its 30% better sharpness compared to the regular 800...and it's amazing dynamic range, I wouldn't have had to spend so much time figuring out what the sign said.


Tomorrow I'm going to go back to a creepy looking bridge I found and see what Trolls I can find in the shadows when I post-process.

Pro Tip: Since trolls have never seen people in real life, they easily get scared when an actual human is near by.

I'll shoot from a distance and just crop in.

Oh no! Damn...I wouldn't be able to crop as far because of my low 22 megapixel count!!!! If only I had the 36 MP monster that is the D800.

Damn Canon, again! Ugh.

Yes you can crop to a 100% to see the soft and mushy lens optics on a 36mp camera. You can see your AF being slightly off, and your camera shake being slightly more apparent. You can see all your lens defects more clearly and the real world resolution being only slightly higher than the 5DIII. Ho hum...but yes you can crop harder....

 

[Roo]

The "Metabones" adapter is (a) a stop-gap solution for Sony whilst they build a full stable of lenses, thus (b) enabling Canon/Nikon users to spread out the cost of the transition to Sony over a period of time. Nice of them, huh.

Given Sony's haphazard approach to long term product development I doubt they'll have a 'full stable' of lenses in our lifetime. But you can continue to dream...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL2DH-nKBeA

 

[Loswr]

Re: foolish internet trolls

You confirmed my original comment to the letter. Your in denial and Sony sensor tech is better at the moment.

Still no facts from you showing a Sony sensor with better performance above ISO 800. Since you're clearly unable to back up your statements, there's no point in further discussion.

DOUBLE-SMACKDOWN!

I post a comparison where a difference is well over a full stop (closer to two), you post a set of comparisons where the lines are nearly touching in most cases, generally with <1/3-stop difference (almost certainly within DxOMark's measurement error, although they don't state their error...or even that they made >1 measurement). Yet somehow, you seem quite impressed with yourself despite your manifestly weak data interpretation skills.

I suggest you go take more shots with the lens cap on and push the exposures 4 or more stops in post. Something useful like that will occupy your time and keep you from looking silly on the Internet.

 

[Sella174]

Given Sony's haphazard approach to long term product development I doubt they'll have a 'full stable' of lenses in our lifetime. But you can continue to dream...

Given Canon's lacking approach to long term product development I doubt they'll have a "full stable" of EF-S lenses in our lifetime. (Compare this approach, for example, to Pentax DA Limited primes.) So I have stopped dreaming ...

 

[RLPhoto]

Re: foolish internet trolls

You confirmed my original comment to the letter. Your in denial and Sony sensor tech is better at the moment.

Still no facts from you showing a Sony sensor with better performance above ISO 800. Since you're clearly unable to back up your statements, there's no point in further discussion.

DOUBLE-SMACKDOWN!

I post a comparison where a difference is well over a full stop (closer to two), you post a set of comparisons where the lines are nearly touching in most cases, generally with <1/3-stop difference (almost certainly within DxOMark's measurement error, although they don't state their error...or even that they made >1 measurement). Yet somehow, you seem quite impressed with yourself despite your manifestly weak data interpretation skills.

I suggest you go take more shots with the lens cap on and push the exposures 4 or more stops in post. Something useful like that will occupy your time and keep you from looking silly on the Internet.

I don't really care if Sony or nikon make the sensor. It's the point that canon sensor tech isn't the best anymore and that's what your in denial about. Even the d3s outperforms the 1dx in every measurable way added I find it funny you comparing a 6000$ body's to 3000$ bodys.

Hence your in denial. I'm not afraid to admit that the Canon doesn't have the best sensors because they don't. If sony/nikon are much better below 800 and slightly better above 800 is irrelevant, it's an improvement.

 

[Loswr]

Beware of Internet Trolls.

I was blown away. Had I been using the D800e, with its 30% better sharpness compared to the regular 800...and it's amazing dynamic range, I wouldn't have had to spend so much time figuring out what the sign said.

Tomorrow I'm going to go back to a creepy looking bridge I found and see what Trolls I can find in the shadows when I post-process.

Look carefully at these two images, and you'll spot the REAL difference that 2 stops of dynamic range makes…

 

[canon1dxman]

Advance Photographer Magazine in the UK just published a comparison test 1DX v D4s.....

The winner was the 1DX and the tester is a confirmed Nikon user......

So, you were saying, the D3s is so good....

 

[sdsr]

I fell for the grass is greener with a higher MP sensor so bought a Sony A7R and mounted my Canon lenses on it.

My experience so far is this.
the moire of the Sony A7R is better (less) than a 5D III
the 5D mark III produces sharp images, while the Sony on the same lens doesn't. EF 70-200 F4 (non IS) at 200mm because its shutter vibrates too much (known issue on Sony fanbois websites)
I can't use Manual focus lenses like the 24mm TSE because I have failed thus far to figure out how to get EVF zoom to work so focus here is poor. it may only work with Sony Lenses
I bricked the Sony doing a firmware upgrade so waiting for it to be repaired. (trying to fix problem above)

[....]

Summary I suspect Canon will sort out the ADC noise issue they have and the IQ will leap as a consequence, just need to be patient, I have been reminded that Canon isn't so bad.

No, of course it isn't; their system is excellent (I would take it over Nikon any day - and have). I somewhat prefer my Sony mirrorless bodies, but it's easy enough to see why someone wouldn't, and either way that's hardly a condemnation of Canon.

As for the rest (I can't comment on your speedlight issue), there's no denying the shutter-shake problem in the A7r (the A7 doesn't have it). The best way to avoid it is to select fast enough shutter speeds, which may not always be possible.

I've no idea what your firmware update problem is, but I'm surprised you can't get manual focus magnification to work; if it's not automatically activated, you should be able to do so easily from a menu, as with focus peaking (the two work together really well), and custom set just about any button you choose to activate it (I use the middle button on the rear control wheel, which may be the default - I can't remember). You don't need to have a Sony lens attached - both features work perfectly with Canon lenses (and any other lenses I've attached - though I've not tried it on my two Sony lenses). Perhaps you were sold a defective one?

 

[sdsr]

Re: DOUBLE SMACKDOWN on Neuro

....

So pay attention, YOUR 1DX is the red line, note how IT'S MOSTLY AT THE BOTTOM of every chart.

....

Assuming those measurements are accurate, to what extent to any of those gaps in performance result in a visible difference in a photo? I get the low ISO shadow noise thing (I've seen it myself readily enough on the few occasions it's mattered), but the rest?

 

[sdsr]

Yes you can crop to a 100% to see the soft and mushy lens optics on a 36mp camera. You can see your AF being slightly off, and your camera shake being slightly more apparent. You can see all your lens defects more clearly and the real world resolution being only slightly higher than the 5DIII. Ho hum...but yes you can crop harder....

Sure; but if your focus isn't slightly off (with mirrorless cameras it's less likely to be), and camera shake isn't apparent (depending on who you are and the circumstances, this may be close to always), and the lenses are good enough (and far more are than some seem to want us to believe).... Are you speaking from personal experience?

 

[Chuck Alaimo]

I don't get one part of this. Sony has the only FF mirrorless body out there now - and it allows those in the canon system to buy it without having to do a complete switch (how many of you are there are using an a7 with canon lenses???). Mirrorless is new and may or may not take off - and if it does who knows what form it will take. Pro grade equipment or mass market equipment. so both Canon and Nikon are letting sony do the market research for them. Canon is actually in a good position considering with this - early adopters aren't selling off their gear to switch, most are keeping their canon gear and adding the sony...

A few points, if I may.

Sony has the only FF mirrorless body out there now - and it allows those in the canon system to buy it without having to do a complete switch (how many of you are there are using an a7 with canon lenses???).

The "Metabones" adapter is (a) a stop-gap solution for Sony whilst they build a full stable of lenses, thus (b) enabling Canon/Nikon users to spread out the cost of the transition to Sony over a period of time. Nice of them, huh?

Mirrorless is new and may or may not take off ...

Mirrorless is already soaring with the eagles. Please accept it.

so both Canon and Nikon are letting sony do the market research for them.

Actually, Olympus did most of the market research and it is now all done. Sony, Panasonic, Olympus and FUJIFILM are now applying the results of that research and reaping the benefits. By the time Canon (and Nikon and Pentax) finally get going, all those people who are willing to embrace new technology (in the form of mirrorless) will be already using other systems than theirs. Now, you might argue the adapted lens stance, but remember that a company like Canon does not make the bulk of its "photographic" profit from the sale of 600mm lenses ... they make it from the sales of xxxD/Rebel with a single kit lens jobbies.

Canon is actually in a good position considering with this - early adopters aren't selling off their gear to switch, most are keeping their canon gear and adding the sony...

Nope (see above), but to reiterate: neuroanatomist made the argument regarding the majority and the minority. Well, does the majority of Canon users own a 600mm lens - or even any L-lens, for that matter? Nope, these people (who own grand lenses) form the minority and thus a niche market. And since the majority on this forum feel that niche markets are negligible, it means that the minority of people who actually do own a Sony with Canon glass and thus still contributing to Canon's revenue can effectively be disregarded. This then leaves the majority purchasing xxxD/Rebel cameras with a single kit lens ... how long will this last? A whole heap of 'em have already found that their iPhone is just as good and a whole lot more convenient than an oversized Canon DSLR camera. The P&S market already croaked because of it ... and I tell you as a fact that crippled "entry-level" DSLR's are next in line.

The future lies in (a) mirrorless and (b) high-MP mirrorless ... and the future is NOW.

Mind you, IMO, I see mirrorless differently than you. I see a major issue with mirrorless being the form factor - IE everything smaller and lighter. While that may appeal to some that doesn't apply to all of the market. Did sony put out a decent FF mirrorless? Yeah, they did but it's not without issues. What I absolutely love about the adapter right now is that it does prove a point that many would use mirrorless if it were in the same form factor as the current ecosystem. I'd rather wait until mirrorless jumps a few more steps, until it matures. think of it like this, there is a lot of real estate inside a 5d series body - Plenty of room to have it's native mount be EF (so all the L lenses we currently have work still, it's just another body upgrade then...). Little things like - without a Mirror to "slow things down," I want things like higher flash sync speeds--- little things like that!

Above and beyond all that though - Look at how many are loving the convenience of the adapter, now think of it - if an M5d (mirrorless 5D) were sitting on the shelves, would that not be a compelling product?