The 5D Mark III & SD Memory Cards

[RGomezPhotos]

It may be in the manual, but this is still not good. If you have two 600X cards in the camera, I wouldn't think it should be that fast to write to both cards if they are the exact same data, but it shouldn't be at 133X either. I seriously hope Canon can resolve this though I doubt it.

 

[Razor2012]

It may be in the manual, but this is still not good. If you have two 600X cards in the camera, I wouldn't think it should be that fast to write to both cards if they are the exact same data, but it shouldn't be at 133X either. I seriously hope Canon can resolve this though I doubt it.

Probably card limitations, CF's - 150 MB/s compared to SDHC's - 95 MB/s.

 

[WillShootPhotos]

Test Results for 5D3 and 1D4 with UDMA 7 - SD card in and out...

Someone asked about some testing - well - here is what I've found from testing on both the 5D3 and the 1D4:

Short version:
5D3 - RAW - UDMA 7 - "rollover" to SD after CF is full:
26 frames till full with the buffer emtying in just over 3 seconds

1D4 - RAW - Firmware 1.1.1 - UDMA 7 - rollover to SD after CF is full:
31 frames till full with the buffer emptying in just over 6 seconds

I just verified that it makes no difference if I pull the SD card - the writing to the CF is the same.

I really wish the guy who wrote the original blog post that started this had clarified his title - I think it should have been:

"Why you should not put write to an SD card in your Canon 5D Mark III (if youcare about speed)"

If you want my testing gory details - here is my blog post about it:
http://blog.willshootphotography.com/2012/06/udma-7-cf-card-performance-on-canon-5d-mark-iii-and-1d-mark-iv-soooo-worth-it.html

I'll be candid and say I don't have a problem with the SD not supporting the superfast SD protocol - primarily because I'll always just use it as a rollover, not as a primary "write to" card type. I know that CF is faster than SD and that is what works for me. I'm really glad that Canon put dual SD in 1DX - it never made much sense to me to *not* have two of the same card reader in the camera other than for space restrictions... and it doesn't take up *that* much space...

Happy motoring!

- Will

 

[Razor2012]

Re: Test Results for 5D3 and 1D4 with UDMA 7 - SD card in and out...

Someone asked about some testing - well - here is what I've found from testing on both the 5D3 and the 1D4:

Short version:
5D3 - RAW - UDMA 7 - "rollover" to SD after CF is full:
26 frames till full with the buffer emtying in just over 3 seconds

1D4 - RAW - Firmware 1.1.1 - UDMA 7 - rollover to SD after CF is full:
31 frames till full with the buffer emptying in just over 6 seconds

I just verified that it makes no difference if I pull the SD card - the writing to the CF is the same.

I really wish the guy who wrote the original blog post that started this had clarified his title - I think it should have been:

"Why you should not put write to an SD card in your Canon 5D Mark III (if youcare about speed)"

If you want my testing gory details - here is my blog post about it:
http://blog.willshootphotography.com/2012/06/udma-7-cf-card-performance-on-canon-5d-mark-iii-and-1d-mark-iv-soooo-worth-it.html

I'll be candid and say I don't have a problem with the SD not supporting the superfast SD protocol - primarily because I'll always just use it as a rollover, not as a primary "write to" card type. I know that CF is faster than SD and that is what works for me. I'm really glad that Canon put dual SD in 1DX - it never made much sense to me to *not* have two of the same card reader in the camera other than for space restrictions... and it doesn't take up *that* much space...

Happy motoring!

- Will

Dual CF.

 

[Drizzt321]

It may be in the manual, but this is still not good. If you have two 600X cards in the camera, I wouldn't think it should be that fast to write to both cards if they are the exact same data, but it shouldn't be at 133X either. I seriously hope Canon can resolve this though I doubt it.

Probably card limitations, CF's - 150 MB/s compared to SDHC's - 95 MB/s.

Actually, 133x is ~20MByte/s according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital. You need SDXC to go up 50+ MByte/s, with UHS-I needed to go above 90+ MByte/sec transfer speeds. So, if you have a 600x CF card (I think UDMA6 can do that, maybe requires UDMA7 which 5d3 supports) and a 600x SD UHS-I card, you'll get 200x (30MByte/sec) speeds at most. In the real world, quite a bit less (see Rob Galbraith's test page, search for 600x and find an SDHC card).

 

[CanineCandidsByL]

Unfortunately my own theory about why the SD is crippled is more annoying. Because SD can be cheaper and nearly as fast as CF, which would move the 5D3 closer to the 1dx than canon marketing wants.

No proof, but certainly reaonable based on other behavior. Not that I have minded it once I got over the initial shock when the manual first became available. The rollover prevents you your photos from stopping completly while you find the right moment to swap the CF.

However, putting in a new CF isn't the end of it. You have to manuall switch the camera back to recording on the CF or it stays on the SD until its full. That another 10 to 20 seconds after already being slow and swapping a card until you get back to the job.

I think the major disppointment was that you couldn't do jpg to SD and RAW to CF without the performance hit.

 

[Drizzt321]

Unfortunately my own theory about why the SD is crippled is more annoying. Because SD can be cheaper and nearly as fast as CF, which would move the 5D3 closer to the 1dx than canon marketing wants.

No proof, but certainly reaonable based on other behavior. Not that I have minded it once I got over the initial shock when the manual first became available. The rollover prevents you your photos from stopping completly while you find the right moment to swap the CF.

However, putting in a new CF isn't the end of it. You have to manuall switch the camera back to recording on the CF or it stays on the SD until its full. That another 10 to 20 seconds after already being slow and swapping a card until you get back to the job.

I think the major disppointment was that you couldn't do jpg to SD and RAW to CF without the performance hit.

I haven't tested to find out, but I imagine S2 or S3 JPEG would probably be able to keep up, or nearly so. Significantly less data to write out than even a Large JPEG. I've heard of some people using the SD slot for an EyeFi card for JPEGs in the studio or on location but not needing a super burst rate. If you're strobe recycle rate is > 0.5s, or even > 1s, then even with an EyeFi card you can probably shoot JPEG out to it and unless you're shooting 100+ photos in a couple of minutes, it probably should be alright since it has the built in flash as a buffer for the very slow WiFi built in.

 

[Loswr]

Unfortunately my own theory about why the SD is crippled is more annoying. Because SD can be cheaper and nearly as fast as CF, which would move the 5D3 closer to the 1dx than canon marketing wants.

No proof, but certainly reaonable based on other behavior.

Wait, wait... You seem to be suggesting that Canon would intentionally cripple a camera model?!? :

 

[Drizzt321]

Unfortunately my own theory about why the SD is crippled is more annoying. Because SD can be cheaper and nearly as fast as CF, which would move the 5D3 closer to the 1dx than canon marketing wants.

No proof, but certainly reaonable based on other behavior.

Wait, wait... You seem to be suggesting that Canon would intentionally cripple a camera model?!? :

Blasphemer! Companies don't ever cripple their lower end products to protect profits on a more expensive, lower volume, higher margin product! Never! They always provide the best possible product at a given price point. It only makes sense.

 

[briansquibb]

Unfortunately my own theory about why the SD is crippled is more annoying. Because SD can be cheaper and nearly as fast as CF, which would move the 5D3 closer to the 1dx than canon marketing wants.

No proof, but certainly reaonable based on other behavior.

Wait, wait... You seem to be suggesting that Canon would intentionally cripple a camera model?!? :

The 5DIII and the 1D4 share the same unit. Personally I only have the SD for overflow should the CF fill up. I soon realise that I have switched. On the 1DS3 at 5fps it is not such a problem as the SD speed doesn't slow it down so much

Why do people think that Canon cripple a model rather than not give it all the bells and whistles? I suspect in this case they have filtered down the unit from the 1D4. If it was good enough for the 1D4 users it should be good enough for 5DIII users. More a case of looking for minor improvements that could have been incorporated and turning them into a major issue

Just remember the 5DIII arrangement is better than the D800

 

[Loswr]

Why do people think that Canon cripple a model rather than not give it all the bells and whistles?

Two words: auto focus. Or is that just one word? Call it product line differentiation, reduction of R&D/manufacturing costs to maximize profit, whatever...crippling, by any other name...

 

[sanj]

Bryan, one of the smarter guys on internet explains this better:

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/News/News-Post.aspx?News=2595

 

[GDub]

Sorry - this is *not* new information. In Canon's defense this is all explicitly stated on page 117 of the owner's manual. If you are concerned about burst mode then leave camera on Standard or Auto Switch Card. The manual states: "When Rec. separately is set, the maximum burst will decrease greatly. (See pg 121)". Pg 121 further explains on the matrix the burst rates and also states: "The Maximum burst rate applies to High Speed Continuous Shooting", it then extrapolates that it is referring to UDM7. It may seem obvious then since the SD cads (if engaged in the two other record modes modes) would have to be the lowest common denominator. On page 32 the manual also states the camera does not comply with UHS standards although these cards can be used.

Now a good work around to this if in the field and you need the backup feature but also the fastest burst mode on a UDMA7 CF card is set the camera to record only on the CF card (Standard Mode). Be sure the CF is the card chosen to record (under Record/Play menu) as well. Now you can copy your images to the SD card by pressing Menu. Choose Menu section 3, sub menu 1 and select "Image Copy". Here you can define your Source (the CF card) and the freespace on Card 2 (SD card) there you can copy all your CF images to an SD card without losing burst mode speed and still have your backup.

revup67, excellent post! Thanks.

To the disgruntled, all you have to do is buy the 1D X instead. "Problem" solved--for just a few thousand dollars.

 

[briansquibb]

Why do people think that Canon cripple a model rather than not give it all the bells and whistles?

Two words: auto focus. Or is that just one word? Call it product line differentiation, reduction of R&D/manufacturing costs to maximize profit, whatever...crippling, by any other name...

I consider cripping when they take a working feature and take it away, In this case it is the perfectly adequate arrangement filtered down as is from the 1D4. So this is not a case of crippling

 

[Loswr]

I consider cripping when they take a working feature and take it away

Ahhh...so you mean, for example, the fact that AFMA was a feature of the 50D, but not of the 60D. Or is AFMA neither a bell nor a whistle?

 

[briansquibb]

I consider cripping when they take a working feature and take it away

Ahhh...so you mean, for example, the fact that AFMA was a feature of the 50D, but not of the 60D. Or is AFMA neither a bell nor a whistle?

Yep you are right in this case about the function being removed - does that mean it could be restored by firmware? if so then it is crippled

In this case we are talking about the SD card which is being touted as being crippled - are you saying it is?

 

[Loswr]

I consider cripping when they take a working feature and take it away

Ahhh...so you mean, for example, the fact that AFMA was a feature of the 50D, but not of the 60D. Or is AFMA neither a bell nor a whistle?

Yep you are right in this case about the function being removed - does that mean it could be restored by firmware? if so then it is crippled

In this case we are talking about the SD card which is being touted as being crippled - are you saying it is?

Yes, AFMA is firmware only, would have been free for them to implement (in fact, they probably had to actively remove it from the 50D firmware as they modified it for the 60D). Crippled, indeed.

Not necessarily the case for the SD slot, that souds more like a case of re-using the already developed part(s) from the 1-series, without bothering to update the Sd slot for the already-available UHS standard. I think it would have been relatively low-cost for them to do so, but they chose not to.

 

[Drizzt321]

Unfortunately my own theory about why the SD is crippled is more annoying. Because SD can be cheaper and nearly as fast as CF, which would move the 5D3 closer to the 1dx than canon marketing wants.

No proof, but certainly reaonable based on other behavior.

Wait, wait... You seem to be suggesting that Canon would intentionally cripple a camera model?!? :

The 5DIII and the 1D4 share the same unit. Personally I only have the SD for overflow should the CF fill up. I soon realise that I have switched. On the 1DS3 at 5fps it is not such a problem as the SD speed doesn't slow it down so much

Why do people think that Canon cripple a model rather than not give it all the bells and whistles? I suspect in this case they have filtered down the unit from the 1D4. If it was good enough for the 1D4 users it should be good enough for 5DIII users. More a case of looking for minor improvements that could have been incorporated and turning them into a major issue

Just remember the 5DIII arrangement is better than the D800

You know...that actually makes sense they would take the card unit from the 1D4. Tried, tested, already have the tooling for it. Makes sense I suppose. Unfortunate that they didn't update it to UHS-I.

 

[infared]

HUH?????? What is this guy Cable saying?

Hi...
I just did a test with my 5D Mark III. I find Mr. Cable's claim that putting an SD card in the card slot slows down the CF card. Groundless.
I am using a 32GB Lexar Professional 600x card and a 32GB Sandisk Extreme Pro SD card. If I am reading correctly he states that if there is no card in the SD card slot the CF card will clear the buffer more quickly. That is not the case on my camera. I loaded up on High Speed 17 shots and each time the buffer clears the exact same time of about 5-7 sec., whether I have an SD card in the slot or not. I am using the second hand from my watch and this is very unscientific....but there is NO CHANGE in the buffer clear of my CF Cards.
Yes. With my SD card ..the buffer clears more slowly than my CF card. Quite a bit in fact. (take about 20 sec.) But my Extreme pro SD card clears MUCH more quickly (LIKE 2x AS FAST ) AS MY 15MB/s SD card. So there is an notable increase in SD card performance as you install faster cards.
I just loaded in the new firmware...so I do not know if that made a difference....but I am VERY happy with this camera. VERY happy.
Perhaps I am misunderstanding his point...but I think that I got it correct.

 

[revup67]

I just did a test with my 5D Mark III. I find Mr. Cable's claim that putting an SD card in the card slot slows down the CF card. Groundless.

Infared - his claim is not groundless it states so in the manual as I posted earlier today. You don't state which Record mode your are on. "Standard" and 'Auto Switch Card" have no effect with SD card in place however "Rec. Separately" and "Rec. to Multiple" will have a slow down effect see page 116 in the manual and or more detail on my earlier post.