The 5DsR mk2

[Chris_BC]

What is everyone's experience using the 5Ds/r for landscape or wildlife photography? Can you use it hand-held? Any reason to be concerned if you are using only L glass?

I got the 5D IV and returned it as it wasn't a big enough jump over my 5D III. The extra DR was nice, but not enough to make me pay the original 3400. I wanted to see if the 5Dsr might be an attractive option for the outdoor photos. I don't use my camera for videos, but really do want higher resolution as I really value details in the photos I take. My taste, please no stones...

I use my 5DsR handheld much of the time. I also use a tripod at times. The same rules apply as with other cameras and shooting situations. The longer the exposure, the more likely you need a tripod. I use nothing but L glass, and newer versions when I can. When using IS lenses in bright light in particular, I'm going to say that a better lens is going to be much more important than using a tripod. Of course this will vary depending on how steady your hands are.

I had the 5D MkIII, and I can assure you that the 5DsR is a big jump in resolution and sharpness. I know this better than most as my monitor is the 43 inch Philips 4K model. If you're viewing on something 27 inches or smaller, you just aren't coming close to getting a true idea. Unless your face is about 10 inches away.... (BTW, viewing at 50% is pretty much the highest you want to go for a true assessment of sharpness. The rule about sampling rate being double the max you want to observe is still true, so I have no idea why people talk about pixel peeping at 100%.)

Some of my pictures viewed on the Philips literally look as if I'm looking out the window at the scene. I've always been after maximum sharpness, and the 5DsR delivers in spades. I was never happy with anything sharpness wise until I had the 5D MkIII, and even then I was hoping for even more. The 5DsR delivers, and it is excellent for landscapes handheld as long as you have the light. If you want to kick it up a notch and be able to stop down for greater depth of field as well, use the tripod and the mirror lockup.

As others have noted, the 5DsR is not a great low light camera compared to other recent options out there.

 

[ahsanford]

What is everyone's experience using the 5Ds/r for landscape or wildlife photography? Can you use it hand-held? Any reason to be concerned if you are using only L glass?

Just speaking to the lens question, as Uncle Rog shows here...

https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2015/06/canon-5ds-and-5ds-r-initial-resolution-tests/

...a rising tide lifts all boats, but better boats are lifted higher. All lenses in his test (3 very good + 1 older/used/banged up) show a greater resolving power on the finer 50 MP canvas, but the quality of the lens dictates how much better it gets.

- A

 

[Memdroid]

5DS series was never advertised as a dedicated or capable video camera, but rather a big megapixel monster for still images. Still is actually and the successor probably will continue that trend.

These are opinions of what YOU think it should be. You may not be the majority, or the demographic that actually buys this camera the most! Canon usually makes evolutionary changes, not revolutionary changes so it would not be reasonable to expect differently about the next release.

I am considering a high res camera, and I would likely be thrilled to have the next iteration. Video? Not that important to me.

Just another perspective.

sek

I think you misquoted or misread my post...
You basically said what I already posted.

 

[jolyonralph]

For high-resolution macro photography the pixel shift feature in the A7RIII is a hugely significant development.

not really. focus shift is far more your friend for high resolution macro, and it's not as if the A7RIII was the first to ever offer pixel shift so it's hardly "a significant development"

Focus shift is a simple but useful way of getting basic macro stacking for larger objects but doesn't work for smaller items where the focus shift is too coarse to be able to capture every layer needed.

There you need to move the camera (or object) with precise accuracy using something like the Stackshot system.

Now, if you combine this with pixel shift, and take a pixel shift combined image for every single point in your stack you'll take 4 times as many photos but you'll get better results.

Also. The other huge bonus with mirrorless cameras for this kind of work is being able to take photos with the shutter locked up. When you're doing 200+ shots to create a single image this is quite useful. Having said that, the Sony implementation so far isn't perfect, and Canon does seem to integrate better into remote control systems for example with support by Helicon Remote. But the A7RIII does seem like it would be a great camera for this kind of work IF the software support was better.

 

[suburbia]

wonder the comparison with astro-photography

The new Sony a7RIII camera still eats stars

Read more: https://photorumors.com/2017/11/22/the-new-sony-a7riii-camera-still-eats-stars/#ixzz4zBQNRtOR

 

[scyrene]

I was never blown away by its detail as I didn't think it ever showed any more detail than a 5D III.

You may not think it does, but it does.

What is everyone's experience using the 5Ds/r for landscape or wildlife photography? Can you use it hand-held? Any reason to be concerned if you are using only L glass?

I have found the 5Ds essentially the same as the 5D3 in terms of what it can do (the slightly lower fps has never been an issue for *me*, although it's not ideal for BIF) - by which I mean it is not worse in any noticeable regard. It does require much more hard disk space, however. You can use it handheld, although for best pixel-level sharpness you need rather faster shutter speeds for the same conditions - it's not prohibitive by any means though. I have no complaints regarding image quality.

 

[tron]

If only there were a leak to give me a reason not to buy the a7Riii

What a ridiculous poll. Three negative choices, one pretty irrelevant and the only positive choice so distorted in unlikely features that it is difficult to expect them and check that box.

+1000 Not a reasonable choice like what Neuro said: incremental update to a functional camera. And since the current camera is a very good camera I can only be sure what its successor will be.

 

[Talys]

It's threads like this that make me wish this forum had a downvote/vote to hide feature, because the poll options are ridiculous and make assumptions, like:

1) The poll voter cares about 4k video, or video at all
2) The person thinks that A7RIII is a usable camera
3) The reader believes that the D850's sensor sophistication outweighs other Nikon system disadvantages

How about option #6 and #7?

[ ] "I have no idea what the 5DsR Mk2's features will be, and although I like reading about these things, I'm unlikely to buy a camera at this price point made by any manufacturer."

[ ] "I have no idea what the 5DSR Mk2's features will be, but I'm excited about a refreshed high-resolution Canon body and will seriously consider it as the specifics become published."

 

[tron]

We basically need another option: "This is a stupid poll" ;D

 

[ahsanford]

Personally, I think the 5DS/R2 as a product asks a fundamental question of Canon: should they double down on detail or step towards more general purpose applications. They could go all in on resolution or they could walk towards the 'supercamera' concept of high res *and* higher fps, like the A7R3 and D850 have recently done.

Crudely: they could go 80 MP x 5 fps or they could go 50 MP x 8 fps. (Don't torture the numbers, I'm just painting a picture.) The former is 5D4 complimentary, while the latter could lower 5D4 sales unless a much higher price point is established.

Whichever way they go on the 5DS/R2, I'm presuming either model will have all the 5D4 improvements -- on-chip ADC, touch, DPAF, DPRAW, WiFi, NFC, etc.

But I'm not positive it will get a tilty-flippy. I presume the 5D5 will finally get one, but perhaps the 5DS/R2 has had shared 5D4 frame / component assumptions baked into its business plan for some time.

- A

 

[unfocused]

Personally, I think the 5DS/R2 as a product asks a fundamental question of Canon: should they double down on detail or step towards more general purpose applications. They could go all in on resolution or they could walk towards the 'supercamera' concept of high res *and* higher fps, like the A7R3 and D850 have recently done.

Crudely: they could go 80 MP x 5 fps or they could go 50 MP x 8 fps. (Don't torture the numbers, I'm just painting a picture.) The former is 5D4 complimentary, while the latter could lower 5D4 sales unless a much higher price point is established.

Whichever way they go on the 5DS/R2, I'm presuming either model will have all the 5D4 improvements -- on-chip ADC, touch, DPAF, DPRAW, WiFi, NFC, etc.

But I'm not positive it will get a tilty-flippy. I presume the 5D5 will finally get one, but perhaps the 5DS/R2 has had shared 5D4 frame / component assumptions baked into its business plan for some time.

- A

Sorry, but I don't see the 5Ds series asking or answering any fundamental questions. The 5Ds series was created as a niche camera focused on the highest reasonable resolution at the time. Canon saw a market and filled it.

To make it affordable, Canon created a Franken-camera using the 5DIII body and an apparently upscaled 70D sensor.

I don't see the basic formula changing. 5DIV body with a sensor likely comparable to an upscaled 7DIII sensor -- which I expect will be different and better than the 80D, but will likely have a marginal increase in megapixel count.

If their market research shows that customers want to drop the AA filter (highly likely in my opinion) they may release just one version.

Frame rate will be driven by the limits of the electronics-- it's at most a secondary consideration and not a driver of specs or purchases. Those who want a higher frame rate have plenty of other choices.

In short, the 5Ds II will be a very solid upgrade with (as you said) "on-chip ADC, touch, DPAF, DPRAW, WiFi, NFC, etc." But, as far as answering any fundamental questions about the future emphasis of Canon's R&D, this is not the camera you are looking for.

 

[ahsanford]

I don't see the basic formula changing. 5DIV body with a sensor likely comparable to an upscaled 7DIII sensor -- which I expect will be different and better than the 80D, but will likely have a marginal increase in megapixel count.

If their market research shows that customers want to drop the AA filter (highly likely in my opinion) they may release just one version.

Frame rate will be driven by the limits of the electronics-- it's at most a secondary consideration and not a driver of specs or purchases. Those who want a higher frame rate have plenty of other choices.

In short, the 5Ds II will be a very solid upgrade with (as you said) "on-chip ADC, touch, DPAF, DPRAW, WiFi, NFC, etc." But, as far as answering any fundamental questions about the future emphasis of Canon's R&D, this is not the camera you are looking for.

Perhaps I'm not being clear.

Will Canon re-segment their FF portfolio to go from:

Enthusiast / All-Around Pro / Niche High Detail

To:

Good / Better / Best

...like what the competition is doing? Will two competitive supercameras with bonkers throughput levels push Canon to follow suit?

- A

 

[bholliman]

I can't answer the poll since none of the choices are close to my opinion, which is:

The 5Ds(R) II will be a nice upgrade to its excellent predecessor.

 

[unfocused]

I can't answer the poll since none of the choices are close to my opinion, which is:

The 5Ds(R) will be a nice upgrade to its excellent predecessor.

Correct answer. +1

 

[unfocused]

I don't see the basic formula changing. ...

Perhaps I'm not being clear.

Will Canon re-segment their FF portfolio to go from:

Enthusiast / All-Around Pro / Niche High Detail

To:

Good / Better / Best

...like what the competition is doing? Will two competitive supercameras with bonkers throughput levels push Canon to follow suit?

- A

I think you are being clear. It's just that I don't see what you are seeing. Canon already offers Good (6DII), Better (5DIV) and Best (1DxII). In addition, Canon has taken the "better" camera and made two different versions. One as a all-around version for pros, enthusiasts, semi-pros, etc., and one a specialized version for those who need or want the highest resolution possible.

I think you are splitting hairs, by lumping Nikon and Sony into one type of market differentiation and Canon into another.

If you are suggesting that there is room in Canon's lineup for something between either the 6D and 5D or between the 5D and 1Dx, that may be true. Although it seems to me that the space is pretty narrow.

I see far more space below the 6DII than between any models. Yet, at the same time, while there may be space below the 6D, based on specifications, I'm not sure there is any space based on price -- especially as the 6DII settles in at $1,600 or below. Canon has cut the price by $300 (through a very generous instant rebate) which is consistent with the way Canon marketed the original 6D -- which was also considered overpriced at introduction, but quickly dropped in price.

I think both Canon and Canon's customers may be perfectly happy to have a feature-rich full-frame camera that will soon go from being a disappointment to forum dwellers to an incredible bargain for people who actually buy cameras.

 

[tomscott]

I for one am very excited about a MKII version full stop.

When it came out I was very skeptical, didn't need the MP, seemed too niche etc etc

In reality its a very usable camera in all applications and I dont think its that niche. I think add the MKIV body and features and the sensor tech with 50mp make it 6FPS and a little more responsive and it could be very close to a full all rounder. Great for landscape and studio work but very capable as a second camera for wedding events and portraiture. It could be a beast for wildlife, add a GPS it would be a great travel companion.

The issue for me for all the above but landscape and wildlife is the mp count is still a little prohibitive. I shoot around 2k of images at weddings and that on its own is around 50-70gb depending on the cameras I own. That would double then output too. If they could make an M raw around the 5DMKIV or 6DMKII file size with no compromises that would be awesome. Another cool idea is a crop mode to get more out of your lenses without cropping in post.

Asking far too much as that camera would make most of the range seem really niche.

Im not that interested in video but if they could add 1080 at 60 with DPAF that would be nice.

 

[tron]

I just voted Dead on Arrival to help you move on to Sony

However, I will gladly upgrade my 5DsR to Mk II when that is released

 

[jeffa4444]

The 5DSR Mark I hasn't really impressed me as a camera.
Maybe its my version but the 5D III and 5D IV that I have are better in terms of image quality.
It doesn't perform well as the ISO goes up.
I was never blown away by its detail as I didn't think it ever showed any more detail than a 5D III.
I'd find the image quality in the 5D IV much better than it.
You know the file size when you are buying it but 50mp tends to be a waste.
I think they crammed too many MP's in the sensor to get to fifty and overstretched it.
I've felt the same with the 7DII (similar if not same MP density).
It wasn't a great buy.
It is slow, there is a second or two delay between taking the photo and it displaying which I find annoying.
It performs best on a tripod at ISO100.
If they bring out a 5DSR Mark II it would need to be really excellent to convince me to upgrade.
The detail it would bring out would have to be a step above the 5D IV.
It's performance at ISO 1600 onwards would need to be alot better

Of course it could be mirrorless which would be a different take.
I think if Canon go mirrorless the first camera has to be very good.

I could not disagree more.
Ive taken thousands of shots with my 5DS mainly in the studio shooting portraits but also landscapes and even on a safari. One area it could do with improvement is low ISO no question but making a statement you cannot see differences between the 5D MKIII or even the 5D IV in details etc. so factually incorrect. The camera has consistently impressed in this area and as I shoot predominately at ISO 100 with a 160 shutter speed using strobes both the level of keepers, detail & sharpness have been a notch above the 5D MKIV not to say that camera is bad but to point out 50MP really does give great results when you nail exposure & focusing.

Would I buy a MKII if it improved over the MK1? In a heartbeat.

 

[Hector1970]

The 5DSR Mark I hasn't really impressed me as a camera.
Maybe its my version but the 5D III and 5D IV that I have are better in terms of image quality.
It doesn't perform well as the ISO goes up.
I was never blown away by its detail as I didn't think it ever showed any more detail than a 5D III.
I'd find the image quality in the 5D IV much better than it.
You know the file size when you are buying it but 50mp tends to be a waste.
I think they crammed too many MP's in the sensor to get to fifty and overstretched it.
I've felt the same with the 7DII (similar if not same MP density).
It wasn't a great buy.
It is slow, there is a second or two delay between taking the photo and it displaying which I find annoying.
It performs best on a tripod at ISO100.
If they bring out a 5DSR Mark II it would need to be really excellent to convince me to upgrade.
The detail it would bring out would have to be a step above the 5D IV.
It's performance at ISO 1600 onwards would need to be alot better

Of course it could be mirrorless which would be a different take.
I think if Canon go mirrorless the first camera has to be very good.

I could not disagree more.
Ive taken thousands of shots with my 5DS mainly in the studio shooting portraits but also landscapes and even on a safari. One area it could do with improvement is low ISO no question but making a statement you cannot see differences between the 5D MKIII or even the 5D IV in details etc. so factually incorrect. The camera has consistently impressed in this area and as I shoot predominately at ISO 100 with a 160 shutter speed using strobes both the level of keepers, detail & sharpness have been a notch above the 5D MKIV not to say that camera is bad but to point out 50MP really does give great results when you nail exposure & focusing.

Would I buy a MKII if it improved over the MK1? In a heartbeat.

I've taken 10's of thousands of photographs with a 5DSR and other than perfect conditions eg ISO 100 it doesn't perform nearly as well as a 5DIII or a 5DIV. It performs best in a studio but then most gear does. It's not a bad camera but not worth the file size afterwards. As always I may have a bad copy but I'm not the first to be not fully supportive of it as a camera. If I had no camera and was buying a full frame I'd get the 5DIV first in a heartbeat.

 

[Frodo]

Hi Hector

I am surprised about your comments that the 5DsR has poorer image quality than the 5DIII and 5DIV. I've never owned one of those cameras but I had a 5DII and now have a 6D (and the 6D is similar to the 5DIII). Image quality has a range of dimensions. Most commonly discussed is resolution. You say "I was never blown away by its detail as I didn't think it ever showed any more detail than a 5D III.". I've compared my 6D to my 5DsR. The increase in resolution is stunning. At my first comparison I thought (incorrectly) I had misfocused the 6D! The increase in resolution with good lenses is about in proportion to the increase in linear dimensions. Even with my 24-105/4, the differences are dramatic.

The next aspect is DR. In initial testing, the DR seems similar to the 6D when downsampled to similar size files. I do like the soft noise that the 5DsR produces in shadows - no blotches or banding so far, but this is with limited testing. Hi ISO noise? I use the 6D for landscape astrophotography and will soon see how well the 5DsR performs.

I agree that at the pixel level, the other cameras might be better, but when downsampled to similar sizes, the 5DsR is better than the 6D and I assume the 5DIII.

In terms of color tonality, I've shot one wedding and one event with the 5DsR and the images are fabulous.

I agree a little more DR would be nice. My biggest issue is that LR conversion of mRaw files is poor, because you usually don't need all 50MP. But when you do, its nice to have.