The danger of high resolution and sharpness

benperrin said:
I suppose the ethics point of view comes down to a question. Are you taking a photo or are you making art?

That's exactly how I would put it. Nothing wrong with severely manipulating a photo if you are 'making art' and not passing it off as 'this is how it really was'. You're simply saying ''here's my picture''.

On the other hand it is satisfying to capture the 'real thing', as it was, there and then.

The people who only want to do the latter complain about people doing the former because they feel it undermines the effort and achievement they have put into capturing the real thing as it was.
 
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insanitybeard said:
Photography obviously means different things to different people, for me it's mostly about trying to preserve a moment in time and the essence of an experience, of course if a picture is so blurred due to shake or movement, or if it's just plain out of focus or under/overexposed then it can't do that, but beyond these things, how far do you take it? Nature isn't perfect- how many adverts do I see for programmes to airbrush portraits because people aren't happy with the natural human form?! Try hard enough and you can find fault with anything, but if that's what it takes for you to find fulfillment, well, that's your call I guess.

One of my favourite images, taken on a Lumix TZ3 compact, in the days before I had a digital SLR isn't technically great, the sky is blown out in the centre, it may be a bit dark for some people's tastes, it's a relatively low resolution jpeg, I would have used a wider focal length if I had it to use at the time, etc etc. But the image conveys at least something of what I experienced that magnificent day- the lighting, the majesty of what I saw, the toil that it was to walk/climb to this point and how knackered I was, and a pursuit that I love. In short, a memory, something that makes me want to return.
One glance at that picture and I was back in Newfoundland hiking :)

It really sets the mood for hiking in the mountains on a wet day. Wonderful shot!
 
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I’m loving this thread, upon reflection I see myself in a similar boat as a lot of others, that is gear obsessed!
My current gear is still waaay beyond my skill level, however I still want that 5dIII, and I’ll have it as soon as the 5DIV is announced, the wife has even agreed 
Now that I have read this thread, it has given me “direction” and “drive” again and I will seek out classes to improve my skill’s both with my gear, and with my editing software (Elements 12) once I obtain the 5DIII. I have soooooo much to learn and I’m looking forward to that chapter next.
Thank you CR colleagues for your inspiring words of wisdom.
 
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dilbert said:
Frodo said:
...
Do you really?

The resolution in the final print depends a large degree on the size of the print. I look at images in NatGeo from about a foot or so away and need the images to be 300 dpi. A three foot image is not viewed from one foot distance, more like six feet. So it seems to me that there is a limit to the number of MP actually needed. And this seems to be way less than 200MP.

Sure there will be exceptions, but it seems that at some point there will be diminishing returns in terms of print resolution.
This is different from camera (sensor/lens) resolution that we tend to focus on.

Beyond 300dpi, I agree. No point.

But when something is hanging in your home, it is just as easy to walk up and be nose distance as to be 6' away. People will do that.

+1 - especially when you're giving something to someone as a gift or even as a commissioned print that they will hang in their home.
 
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Everyone has their own balance between what they want to do, how much gear they can afford and the kind of photography they pursue.

Do not think there is any possibility to meaningfully generalize people's ability, skills and ambitions here.

I had the good fortune to work with the World's best portrait photographer. When I met her she was traveling the world shooting the super-rich for their private use.

The most perfectionist photographer imaginable. Making sure everything was 100% perfect when she clicked her camera.

She would go study the natural light - sometimes for more than a day just to check out different light falls from different angles before even choosing her shooting position and setting up her gear.

And she knew everything - and I mean everything - about how to set people, choose their clothes, optimize their pose, check the color match of subject and surroundings and arrange the lights as well as check the reflections - so people looked their very best. It was simply amazing to watch.

She taught me what perfect photography was about - and I know I have never taken the kind of perfect portrait she could master.

Would she have been content shooting the next best gear? Never. She did not then - and she would not have done so today if she was still around.
 
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I think there has been some good points made on this thread. I never meant to make people feel bad, because they buy the best gear money can buy for their photography. I do that myself. But the question I raised was if we become more absorbed in the technical issues, than in making good photographs.

I will continue to buy the gear I want, regardless of what other people say or think. I will get every Otus lens they will make available and I will most likely also buy the 5DIV and 1DXII cameras when they are available. But it is important to me that the equipment play second violin to the actual photography. I can shoot pictures today that was impossible (to me) prior to when the technology was available, so I am very happy for that. Sometimes I hit the ceiling of what the equipment can deliver (combined with my lack of skills ...) and then I´m consumed in technical discussions.

The experiment with the 270MP panorama is for a special print. We want a 3m by 1.25m print on a wall in the customer center in our offices, of a special scenery in Norway (not Crete). I wanted that to be a 300dpi print, so people can go up close and look at the various detailed areas. Will be cool I think, but I have to go and shoot it first :)
 
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The danger of high resolution is that my 2010 computer will expire from the effort of handling the files. ;)
So far, 20 MP gives me plenty of resolution for the screen and for the small prints I make, ~ 11 x 14 or so. That being said, there is something magical about old contact prints and 2x enlargements from large format film.

Of course, having something to say and a well-thought-out way to express it is the key to visual art and performance art of all types.

The reference to audiophile G.A.S. makes me think of some of my favorite recordings, fairly primitive in technology - eg. live performance , Maria Callas as Lady Macbeth. THat might be considered the technological equivalent of an 0.5 MP camera.
 
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TheJock said:
I’m loving this thread, upon reflection I see myself in a similar boat as a lot of others, that is gear obsessed!
My current gear is still waaay beyond my skill level, however I still want that 5dIII, and I’ll have it as soon as the 5DIV is announced, the wife has even agreed 
Now that I have read this thread, it has given me “direction” and “drive” again and I will seek out classes to improve my skill’s both with my gear, and with my editing software (Elements 12) once I obtain the 5DIII. I have soooooo much to learn and I’m looking forward to that chapter next.
Thank you CR colleagues for your inspiring words of wisdom.

I don't think it is a bad thing to have gear that is a little above your capabilities, it gives you room to grow and when you don't like the results you know what needs to be improved. :)
 
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Well, I almost purchased the 5DS last week but some common sense held me back. Almost 95% of my photos are printed on A3 paper or smaller so I just couldn't decide as to what was it that I was looking for in 50MP camera. Sure, the extra MP would have given me more margin for cropping but then hey, I already have a 7DII for that.

I'll continue to wait for the 5D4 or the 1DX2 to see what they offer before upgrading the 6D.
 
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kaswindell said:
TheJock said:
I’m loving this thread, upon reflection I see myself in a similar boat as a lot of others, that is gear obsessed!
My current gear is still waaay beyond my skill level, however I still want that 5dIII, and I’ll have it as soon as the 5DIV is announced, the wife has even agreed 
Now that I have read this thread, it has given me “direction” and “drive” again and I will seek out classes to improve my skill’s both with my gear, and with my editing software (Elements 12) once I obtain the 5DIII. I have soooooo much to learn and I’m looking forward to that chapter next.
Thank you CR colleagues for your inspiring words of wisdom.

I don't think it is a bad thing to have gear that is a little above your capabilities, it gives you room to grow and when you don't like the results you know what needs to be improved. :)

My perspective is slightly different. Having the "very good" gear usually means that a crap photo is my fault and I can't make excuses saying that the equipment is not up to the task :)
 
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Rahul said:
kaswindell said:
TheJock said:
I’m loving this thread, upon reflection I see myself in a similar boat as a lot of others, that is gear obsessed!
My current gear is still waaay beyond my skill level, however I still want that 5dIII, and I’ll have it as soon as the 5DIV is announced, the wife has even agreed 
Now that I have read this thread, it has given me “direction” and “drive” again and I will seek out classes to improve my skill’s both with my gear, and with my editing software (Elements 12) once I obtain the 5DIII. I have soooooo much to learn and I’m looking forward to that chapter next.
Thank you CR colleagues for your inspiring words of wisdom.

I don't think it is a bad thing to have gear that is a little above your capabilities, it gives you room to grow and when you don't like the results you know what needs to be improved. :)

My perspective is slightly different. Having the "very good" gear usually means that a crap photo is my fault and I can't make excuses saying that the equipment is not up to the task :)

+1 I will know that the hardware didn't limit me and that I need to master my technique
 
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Rahul said:
My perspective is slightly different. Having the "very good" gear usually means that a crap photo is my fault and I can't make excuses saying that the equipment is not up to the task :)

With the advent of digital cameras, I always blame it on solar flares.

People usually don't believe me, but it helps me feel better about my crappy technique. :P
 
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AcutancePhotography said:
Rahul said:
My perspective is slightly different. Having the "very good" gear usually means that a crap photo is my fault and I can't make excuses saying that the equipment is not up to the task :)

With the advent of digital cameras, I always blame it on solar flares.

People usually don't believe me, but it helps me feel better about my crappy technique. :P

Ah ... I guess blaming stuff on electro-magnetic fields might sound a bit more realistic.

Just trying to help :P
 
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I agree with all of you about us all fading into the obsession of acquiring technical perfection, but there are two points that IMHO have to be made:
1. We all learn by evolving with our camera system. My pre-SLR photographs taken with point-and-shoots without any knowledge are absolute crap. That changed when I got my SLR and a basic understanding of the technical details and it took an even greater leap when I changed my workflow to shooting RAW. Technical tidbits do help a lot.
2. Of course, it is possible to take photographs with gear that is not at all considered professional, but it helps when the body and lenses are truly capable of capturing what you want to capture. All these photos in this thread are very nice and I get the memory aspect of it, but we all agree that these images would have come out better with higher end gear. Two weeks ago, I was shooting lynxes in the national park Bayerischer Wald in Bavaria, near to where I live. I came home with some good photos and one that could have been stunning, but it was shot at ISO 3200 on my 7D and it was more of an environmental animal portrait. The detail in the lynx' face was not at all optimal. I kept the shot, just because it was the best from a composition viewpoint, which we all agreed is the most important one (with light, of course), but still, it could have been a lot better with better technology (7DII, 5DIII etc.).
But at the end, you are of course right, light and conposition are much more important than any technical details and we should cherish the act of photography as our expression of art or memory much more than talking about DR or resolution. :)
 
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tayassu said:
1. We all learn by evolving with our camera system. My pre-SLR photographs taken with point-and-shoots without any knowledge are absolute crap. That changed when I got my SLR and a basic understanding of the technical details and it took an even greater leap when I changed my workflow to shooting RAW. Technical tidbits do help a lot.

+1
My first camera was a Kodak 110 Pocket Instamatic - I got it for my 10th birthday and the first shot I took had a bit of a framing problem (it was just my fathers head and everything above it). My gear is certainly much better now, hopefully I too have gotten a bit better over the years. ;-)
 
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Rahul said:
kaswindell said:
TheJock said:
I’m loving this thread, upon reflection I see myself in a similar boat as a lot of others, that is gear obsessed!
My current gear is still waaay beyond my skill level, however I still want that 5dIII, and I’ll have it as soon as the 5DIV is announced, the wife has even agreed 
Now that I have read this thread, it has given me “direction” and “drive” again and I will seek out classes to improve my skill’s both with my gear, and with my editing software (Elements 12) once I obtain the 5DIII. I have soooooo much to learn and I’m looking forward to that chapter next.
Thank you CR colleagues for your inspiring words of wisdom.

I don't think it is a bad thing to have gear that is a little above your capabilities, it gives you room to grow and when you don't like the results you know what needs to be improved. :)

My perspective is slightly different. Having the "very good" gear usually means that a crap photo is my fault and I can't make excuses saying that the equipment is not up to the task :)

I am pretty sure we are saying the same thing
 
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Eldar said:
I think there has been some good points made on this thread. I never meant to make people feel bad, because they buy the best gear money can buy for their photography. I do that myself. But the question I raised was if we become more absorbed in the technical issues, than in making good photographs.

I will continue to buy the gear I want, regardless of what other people say or think. I will get every Otus lens they will make available and I will most likely also buy the 5DIV and 1DXII cameras when they are available. But it is important to me that the equipment play second violin to the actual photography. I can shoot pictures today that was impossible (to me) prior to when the technology was available, so I am very happy for that. Sometimes I hit the ceiling of what the equipment can deliver (combined with my lack of skills ...) and then I´m consumed in technical discussions.

The experiment with the 270MP panorama is for a special print. We want a 3m by 1.25m print on a wall in the customer center in our offices, of a special scenery in Norway (not Crete). I wanted that to be a 300dpi print, so people can go up close and look at the various detailed areas. Will be cool I think, but I have to go and shoot it first :)

I agree with what you are saying. We are in a gear forum after all so the chasing after the latest gear is fun and can have its own rewards. So we are not putting down having the latest gear, just saying that the gear is secondary in the process. Having said that gear is also important. If you are photographing surfing from the waves you'll need some sort of housing or a waterproof camera. If you are professionally photographing portraits you'd better have more than a 14mm lens in your bag. If you are photographing real estate you'd better have wider than an 85mm lens in your bag etc. Gear can make a difference. Usually though gear won't make as much difference as composition and lighting. Get those right and most modern gear will do. I myself have a goal of printing a large panorama for my house (at least 2.5 meters wide). Do I need the latest gear for that? Probably not. Will I see some benefit adding a 5dsr to my ageing 5d2? I really believe I will.

YMMV.
 
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I have found that getting a new prime lens stimulates my photo composition skills. Currently I am working with a 6D and the two most recently purchased lenses, a Voigtlander 125mm f/2.5 macro (manual focus, with ginormous 700 degree helicoid) and a 40mm f/2.8 STM pancake plus extension rings, a compact macro and landscape pairing.
 
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