The first 1DXIIs are out

[Besisika]

When you're as financially challenged as me there are always second thoughts.

However, why, when it's in later life and something you really enjoy, would you forgo the experience or delay! My friend bought the 1DX (Nikon -> Canon) and bugged me continuously to get one and I might have except I was anticipating a 1DX II announcement and my 6D was doing the job. He died last year having enjoyed his pro camera for less than a year.

So, methinks I better persist with this while I'm still capable of handling the weight. Only thing I would have liked is just a few more MPs for cropping.

Jack

Got it!
You and I are on a similar boat (age).
the difference is that I am buying it for video purposes and I have no doubt this is the right gear for me.
If you use it for stills then you might be as well wait for full reviews before pulling the trigger.
Opinions on this kind of forum you have to take with caution. People are too emotional.
Having a heart attack at our age is not fun.

 

[unfocused]

First off, let me say that I consider Scyrene one of the "good guys." As far as I can recall, which at may age is not very far at all, his comments are usually well reasoned and rational.

I don't think that's fair. Well, it's fair to a point, and in general. But not in this case so much.

These images were posted as samples of a new, much anticipated camera's capabilities.

Except that as near as I can tell, they were not posted to this forum by the photographer, but by someone else. And, I cannot find anything on the photographer's website or blog that says he was posting these to show examples of the technical capabilities of the 1DX II and certainly nothing that encourages others to re-post the photos.

Perhaps I missed it, and if someone can point me to that, I will gladly admit I'm wrong.

Specifically, a lot of them have higher ISO settings, and that is an area some those of us interested in the camera are particularly interested to see.

I am interested in that as well. I'm just looking for something to show that that's why these photos were posted by the photographer.

...in general, it's not nice to be a harsh critic, and better to stay silent if you don't like something. But this gallery is a special case. It was posted for technical reasons, and it's fair to criticise it on technical grounds.

But was it? I suppose since he is an "Explorer of Light" he ought to be willing to take the criticism...the old get out of the kitchen if you can't stand the heat. I'm just bothered because he may have no idea that his pictures are getting dissected by a bunch of self-appointed experts.

Incidentally, I post images here and have a link in my profile to my Flickr feed.

I have great respect for those willing to post their pictures. There are a lot of talented photographers on this forum.

It does sometimes seem as though talent is inversely related to the individual's claimed expertise.

I include a link to my (hugely outdated and in need of updating) website. But I'm not particularly interested in eliciting comments. I figure people can go and look and make their own judgment, but I don't care to hear what they have to say.

My photography falls into two categories: those I shoot for others and those I shoot for myself. In both cases, the people I listen to are not on the internet.

 

[Jack Douglas]

Besisika, I am also somewhat interested in doing some video and HD slo mo is appealing as well as 4K. I'd say it's about 95% that I'll be getting this camera and not regretting it. The 300 2.8 II was another of those oh dear, oh dear moments and I don't regret the $6500 at all - very rewarding to say the least.

So, hopefully we'll both be posting our shots one day soon.

Jack

 

[Jack Douglas]

scyrene and unfocussed, good points. My point was more that I'd like to see the armchair quarterback throw the ball. Here in Edmonton Oiler hockey country we have armchair Conner McDavids!

I do feel it's a little unfair to dump all over this fellow when he didn't even post anything here and to do it in a disrespectable way is worse. Analyzing for our purposes seems fine to me. Mature decent folk generally can take this kind of thing in stride. And, my personal goal is always to grow thicker skin.

Jack

 

[scyrene]

First off, let me say that I consider Scyrene one of the "good guys." As far as I can recall, which at may age is not very far at all, his comments are usually well reasoned and rational.

That's the nicest thing I've heard on here, thanks!

I don't think that's fair. Well, it's fair to a point, and in general. But not in this case so much.

These images were posted as samples of a new, much anticipated camera's capabilities.

Except that as near as I can tell, they were not posted to this forum by the photographer, but by someone else. And, I cannot find anything on the photographer's website or blog that says he was posting these to show examples of the technical capabilities of the 1DX II and certainly nothing that encourages others to re-post the photos.

Perhaps I missed it, and if someone can point me to that, I will gladly admit I'm wrong.

Yeah, fair point. It crossed my mind. I assumed, probably incorrectly, that that is the only reason a gallery with a preproduction/brand new camera would be posted anywhere at this point.

I have great respect for those willing to post their pictures. There are a lot of talented photographers on this forum.

It does sometimes seem as though talent is inversely related to the individual's claimed expertise.

I include a link to my (hugely outdated and in need of updating) website. But I'm not particularly interested in eliciting comments. I figure people can go and look and make their own judgment, but I don't care to hear what they have to say.

My photography falls into two categories: those I shoot for others and those I shoot for myself. In both cases, the people I listen to are not on the internet.

Absolutely. There's definitely a negative vibe online, especially with (semi-)anonymous posters. I've never had anything negative on Flickr, it's a pretty good place to share work in that sense. But DPR (from what I've seen) is the epitome of what you're talking about, I think. Even competition winners there get plenty of negative comments. Not constructive.

 

[Travelintrevor]

Just curious, is this your normal interpersonal mode of communication? Personally, I think both respectful assertions and respectful replies are more effective, but to each his own.

There are millions of armchair critics out there who love to nitpick other people's photos. Yet, most of these people never put their own photos out there. In this particular case, the nitpickers are going after a guy who didn't even post these pictures himself, never invited criticism and is clearly both financially and professionally successful (plus being an "Explorer of Light" which is a pretty decent indication he knows a little something about what he is doing).

There are images that might not be perfectly tack sharp, but they are excellent photos anyway and some capture a spontaneous moment and mood that far outstrips the importance of whether or not you can count every individual eyelash on the person's eyelid.

I think one person on this forum used to have a saying in their tagline that "sharpness isn't everything." That's absolutely true.

There aren't a lot of super-sharp images in Robert Frank's The Americans, yet that didn't keep him from being the single-most influential photographer of the second half of the 20th century. I was just flipping through a Edward Weston monograph. There isn't a single picture in there that would have been made any better by being a little sharper.

I've noticed that the people on this forum who have the most impressive portfolios never criticize other people's work.

I wholehearted agree with everything you said and I never typed anything about the photographs. I tackled noise and focus issues only-never mentioned light, framing, etc. They were used to assess the 1DXII, nothing else.
Also, my photos are out there...for what it's worth.

I have high expectations when it comes to my camera nailing focus and I still have high hopes for the 1DXII and future Canon cameras.

My issue with focus comes from shooting weddings and while we may be forgiving, clients often are not and that is why we have error and omission insurance. No issues to date but for me, not hitting focus is the #1 stress factor for events. Not the light, composition, ISO choice , motion blur, choice of f stop...I can control all of those and if I miss, it is my fault. But my equipment failing (AF) should not be in the back of my mind because it takes concentration away from me paying attention to light, composition, etc.

Does that make sense?

 

[Jack Douglas]

Just curious, is this your normal interpersonal mode of communication? Personally, I think both respectful assertions and respectful replies are more effective, but to each his own.

There are millions of armchair critics out there who love to nitpick other people's photos. Yet, most of these people never put their own photos out there. In this particular case, the nitpickers are going after a guy who didn't even post these pictures himself, never invited criticism and is clearly both financially and professionally successful (plus being an "Explorer of Light" which is a pretty decent indication he knows a little something about what he is doing).

There are images that might not be perfectly tack sharp, but they are excellent photos anyway and some capture a spontaneous moment and mood that far outstrips the importance of whether or not you can count every individual eyelash on the person's eyelid.

I think one person on this forum used to have a saying in their tagline that "sharpness isn't everything." That's absolutely true.

There aren't a lot of super-sharp images in Robert Frank's The Americans, yet that didn't keep him from being the single-most influential photographer of the second half of the 20th century. I was just flipping through a Edward Weston monograph. There isn't a single picture in there that would have been made any better by being a little sharper.

I've noticed that the people on this forum who have the most impressive portfolios never criticize other people's work.

I wholehearted agree with everything you said and I never typed anything about the photographs. I tackled noise and focus issues only-never mentioned light, framing, etc. They were used to assess the 1DXII, nothing else.
Also, my photos are out there...for what it's worth.

I have high expectations when it comes to my camera nailing focus and I still have high hopes for the 1DXII and future Canon cameras.

My issue with focus comes from shooting weddings and while we may be forgiving, clients often are not and that is why we have error and omission insurance. No issues to date but for me, not hitting focus is the #1 stress factor for events. Not the light, composition, ISO choice , motion blur, choice of f stop...I can control all of those and if I miss, it is my fault. But my equipment failing (AF) should not be in the back of my mind because it takes concentration away from me paying attention to light, composition, etc.

Does that make sense?

Certainly, it makes sense.

More recently I've only had four DSLRs after a point and shoot but I come from a previous history with an F1 so wasn't really a complete amateur. With the DSLRs, a Nikon D5100, before my used 1D II, a new 6D, and a used 1D4, I've never had focus issues other than having to AFMA to get it right initially, so I must confess AF has not been gnawing at me like you describe. However, I don't shoot professionally, so that's a huge difference.

I am here to a large extent to learn from those who know a lot more than me and of course to enjoy a laugh at what sometimes appears.

In pondering the purchase of the 1DX II I'd say that AF failures wouldn't ever cross my mind after all I've heard about the 1DX and experienced first hand.

Jack

 

[DavidA]

When you're as financially challenged as me there are always second thoughts.

However, why, when it's in later life and something you really enjoy, would you forgo the experience or delay! My friend bought the 1DX (Nikon -> Canon) and bugged me continuously to get one and I might have except I was anticipating a 1DX II announcement and my 6D was doing the job. He died last year having enjoyed his pro camera for less than a year.

So, methinks I better persist with this while I'm still capable of handling the weight. Only thing I would have liked is just a few more MPs for cropping.

Jack

Got it!
You and I are on a similar boat (age).
the difference is that I am buying it for video purposes and I have no doubt this is the right gear for me.
If you use it for stills then you might be as well wait for full reviews before pulling the trigger.
Opinions on this kind of forum you have to take with caution. People are too emotional.
Having a heart attack at our age is not fun.

I think you can add me to the boat if there is room! I am taking a little different slant on the subject. I placed my pre-order about a month after the 1dxII announcement taking the view that I could always cancel or return once REAL reviews started hitting around the ship date. I am too old to switch to Nikon (hate the UI) and hold the view that the 1dxII would be at lest as good or better than the 1dx. I have always rented the 1dx for big trips and kept delaying the 1dx purchase.

I have absolutely no faith good/bad in anything I see or read prior to actual availability and evaluaiton. I think people with early access get the impulse to please others, be the "first" to provide images. As a result, They push images through without proper review and process that are not representative of the camera. How many times have we seen c*** images out of pre-release testers when the camera turned out to be a great performer? This is one of the reasons companies restrict access until a technology is truly ready for review. Technically, with on chip ADC you should get a decent improvement in ISO performance which supports my "at least as good as the 1dx" approach. If you can't consistently nail shots with the current AF systems, you might as well not waste money on the upgrade expecting that a new AF will solve the problem. The OOF issues could be caused because the lenses/camera weren't' calibrated - who knows. A "quick" process of the RAW file could do more damage if someone is rushing to the first to provide images. Remember that my thinking is from someone that has used the 1dx extensively but does not have the issue of sunk cost in the 1dx.

I came to the same conclusion as Jack that life is too short and it is time to enjoy the benefits of all the effort expended building to retirement. I like to shoot wildlife and have already purchased the 200-400 f4 L IS and will hopefully add the 1dx MII in May for upcoming trips to Alaska, Glacier, YNP, GTNP, Zion, Bryce, Arches and Africa (early 2017).

Next couple of months should be interesting.

David

 

[Jack Douglas]

When you're as financially challenged as me there are always second thoughts.

However, why, when it's in later life and something you really enjoy, would you forgo the experience or delay! My friend bought the 1DX (Nikon -> Canon) and bugged me continuously to get one and I might have except I was anticipating a 1DX II announcement and my 6D was doing the job. He died last year having enjoyed his pro camera for less than a year.

So, methinks I better persist with this while I'm still capable of handling the weight. Only thing I would have liked is just a few more MPs for cropping.

Jack

Got it!
You and I are on a similar boat (age).
the difference is that I am buying it for video purposes and I have no doubt this is the right gear for me.
If you use it for stills then you might be as well wait for full reviews before pulling the trigger.
Opinions on this kind of forum you have to take with caution. People are too emotional.
Having a heart attack at our age is not fun.

I think you can add me to the boat if there is room! I am taking a little different slant on the subject. I placed my pre-order about a month after the 1dxII announcement taking the view that I could always cancel or return once REAL reviews started hitting around the ship date. I am too old to switch to Nikon (hate the UI) and hold the view that the 1dxII would be at lest as good or better than the 1dx. I have always rented the 1dx for big trips and kept delaying the 1dx purchase.

I have absolutely no faith good/bad in anything I see or read prior to actual availability and evaluaiton. I think people with early access get the impulse to please others, be the "first" to provide images. As a result, They push images through without proper review and process that are not representative of the camera. How many times have we seen c*** images out of pre-release testers when the camera turned out to be a great performer? This is one of the reasons companies restrict access until a technology is truly ready for review. Technically, with on chip ADC you should get a decent improvement in ISO performance which supports my "at least as good as the 1dx" approach. If you can't consistently nail shots with the current AF systems, you might as well not waste money on the upgrade expecting that a new AF will solve the problem. The OOF issues could be caused because the lenses/camera weren't' calibrated - who knows. A "quick" process of the RAW file could do more damage if someone is rushing to the first to provide images. Remember that my thinking is from someone that has used the 1dx extensively but does not have the issue of sunk cost in the 1dx.

I came to the same conclusion as Jack that life is too short and it is time to enjoy the benefits of all the effort expended building to retirement. I like to shoot wildlife and have already purchased the 200-400 f4 L IS and will hopefully add the 1dx MII in May for upcoming trips to Alaska, Glacier, YNP, GTNP, Zion, Bryce, Arches and Africa (early 2017).

Next couple of months should be interesting.

David

David, sounds like the stars are all lined up for you. However, it seems you've left western Canada out of your list! That's a shame. And think of the present dollar!!

I'm sure your new camera will be just wonderful, assuming no early bugs. I'm also tempted to get in an order but I don't have a pressing need for this spring/summer but I may do a September holiday out to BC. It's a wonderful time to be in the mountains with few campers and this camera would just add to the exhilaration!

Be sure to post when you get it!

Jack

 

[check 6]

I feel the same way, I don't need a 1DX MKII but I want one and at almost 74 why not. I rationalize that it is better than my 5 D mkII and faster and did I mention that I want one . Life is short

 

[DavidA]

When you're as financially challenged as me there are always second thoughts.

However, why, when it's in later life and something you really enjoy, would you forgo the experience or delay! My friend bought the 1DX (Nikon -> Canon) and bugged me continuously to get one and I might have except I was anticipating a 1DX II announcement and my 6D was doing the job. He died last year having enjoyed his pro camera for less than a year.

So, methinks I better persist with this while I'm still capable of handling the weight. Only thing I would have liked is just a few more MPs for cropping.

Jack

Got it!
You and I are on a similar boat (age).
the difference is that I am buying it for video purposes and I have no doubt this is the right gear for me.
If you use it for stills then you might be as well wait for full reviews before pulling the trigger.
Opinions on this kind of forum you have to take with caution. People are too emotional.
Having a heart attack at our age is not fun.

I think you can add me to the boat if there is room! I am taking a little different slant on the subject. I placed my pre-order about a month after the 1dxII announcement taking the view that I could always cancel or return once REAL reviews started hitting around the ship date. I am too old to switch to Nikon (hate the UI) and hold the view that the 1dxII would be at lest as good or better than the 1dx. I have always rented the 1dx for big trips and kept delaying the 1dx purchase.

I have absolutely no faith good/bad in anything I see or read prior to actual availability and evaluaiton. I think people with early access get the impulse to please others, be the "first" to provide images. As a result, They push images through without proper review and process that are not representative of the camera. How many times have we seen c*** images out of pre-release testers when the camera turned out to be a great performer? This is one of the reasons companies restrict access until a technology is truly ready for review. Technically, with on chip ADC you should get a decent improvement in ISO performance which supports my "at least as good as the 1dx" approach. If you can't consistently nail shots with the current AF systems, you might as well not waste money on the upgrade expecting that a new AF will solve the problem. The OOF issues could be caused because the lenses/camera weren't' calibrated - who knows. A "quick" process of the RAW file could do more damage if someone is rushing to the first to provide images. Remember that my thinking is from someone that has used the 1dx extensively but does not have the issue of sunk cost in the 1dx.

I came to the same conclusion as Jack that life is too short and it is time to enjoy the benefits of all the effort expended building to retirement. I like to shoot wildlife and have already purchased the 200-400 f4 L IS and will hopefully add the 1dx MII in May for upcoming trips to Alaska, Glacier, YNP, GTNP, Zion, Bryce, Arches and Africa (early 2017).

Next couple of months should be interesting.

David

David, sounds like the stars are all lined up for you. However, it seems you've left western Canada out of your list! That's a shame. And think of the present dollar!!

I'm sure your new camera will be just wonderful, assuming no early bugs. I'm also tempted to get in an order but I don't have a pressing need for this spring/summer but I may do a September holiday out to BC. It's a wonderful time to be in the mountains with few campers and this camera would just add to the exhilaration!

Be sure to post when you get it!

Jack

Jack,

We just have to make sure we stay healthy for all the fun. I figure I have another 3-5 years carting around the big gear for wildlife before I switch back to landscapes and a lighter kit.

Haven't forgotten Canada, just couldn't get it in this year. My wife and I have been discussing trip options for fall 2017 and western Canada is in the mix. We want to do western Canada from Banf to the west coast. We also want to go back to Churchill for Polar Bears. I retired in July 2013 and our first major trip was to Churchill for Polar Bears in November. Awesome experience.

I am really looking forward to the 1dxII and will post some images when I have something worthy of the gear. We usually plan our trips a year in advance, but after getting/ordering all the new gear I decided it was time for a quick outing to break in the equipment before our big trips in July & September. I booked a trip to Yellowstone / GTNP with another photographer for June and should have an opportunity to put everything through a real test. I have been going to YNP/GTNP for 15 years and it is a stress free environment for me to experiment with new gear.

I agree with your logic of not placing the order since you don't have a need in the near term. My driving factor was getting the equipment in time to be ready for a big trip in early July. I want to get everything dialed in before the trip including calibrating of my lenses with the new 1dxMII. If I receive he camera in early May, it will give me plenty of time to get ready for Yellowstone in early June and Alaska in July.

Don't wait too long before you pull the trigger.

David

 

[DavidA]

I feel the same way, I don't need a 1DX MKII but I want one and at almost 74 why not. I rationalize that it is better than my 5 D mkII and faster and did I mention that I want one . Life is short

Maybe I can use you as an example and will be doing wildlife more than 3-5 more years! The gear does get heavier every trip. I did a small group tour to Alaska last year with Art Wolfe and there was an 81 yr old packing a 1dx + 200-400 f4 L IS w/1.4x TC. He didn't do all of the long hikes, but he hung in there with the group and got some great photos. You guys make me think 70 & 80 is the new 50! I am 63 so that must make me the new 40.

I think you should go for it!

David

 

[GoldWing]

Re: The first 1DXIIs are out - NOT IMPRESSED

I looked at all these photos and I must agree. I'm not impressed with the IQ at all. I've pre-ordered the camera. Know there are copies out there and perhaps this is an indication as to why Canon has NOT released any RAWS?

Also Canon has just pushed the release of the camera to May vs, April. Could there be a flaw? We all know about the Mirror Box issues in the last 1DX. Some are starting to get nervous when they see shots like this.

Let's start with this one:
https://davisworkshops.smugmug.com/Canon-EOS-1DXMarkII/i-8Fmv2zM/O

Granted, it could be that the lens is soft in the corners but...

then there are these:

https://davisworkshops.smugmug.com/Canon-EOS-1DXMarkII/i-m7KKCRw/O

https://davisworkshops.smugmug.com/Canon-EOS-1DXMarkII/i-5Mvzbxp/O

https://davisworkshops.smugmug.com/Canon-EOS-1DXMarkII/i-4KVbqFH/O

https://davisworkshops.smugmug.com/Canon-EOS-1DXMarkII/i-xWC66FL/O

plenty of light and contrast yet soft:
https://davisworkshops.smugmug.com/Canon-EOS-1DXMarkII/i-KL2zKWn/O


Perhaps you should go back and look again or maybe we just have a difference in standards.

The softness in the portraits has nothing to do with shallow dof....I shoot wide open all the time and still get sharper photos than these.

Did they not calibrate the lenses? Did they not check focus during the shoot? Is there an issue with the 1DXII AF system?

I don't know but, as stated, these photos are not inline with other samples I have seen.

You're definitely not trolling, and looking at these I see what you mean. There seems to be a fair bit of motion blur in some of these, plus the ugly oversharpening artefacts I saw in the wildlife shots. Maybe only noticeable viewed 100% but still, I'm surprised they posted full size samples given these technical flaws. They look fine scaled down, but that's not much use for evaluating the camera's noise, etc.

 

[Loswr]

Re: The first 1DXIIs are out - NOT IMPRESSED

We all know about the Mirror Box issues in the last 1DX. Some are starting to get nervous when they see shots like this.

Lol, well I guess you are getting nervous. Maybe the entire production run of 1D X II cameras will completely shatter into component pieces afte the 200th shutter press. Or maybe just your camera will be defective...again.

Or maybe these are a few shots by one person, and the 'problem' is with that one person.

 

[Jack Douglas]

Re: The first 1DXIIs are out - NOT IMPRESSED

We all know about the Mirror Box issues in the last 1DX. Some are starting to get nervous when they see shots like this.

Lol, well I guess you are getting nervous. Maybe the entire production run of 1D X II cameras will completely shatter into component pieces afte the 200th shutter press. Or maybe just your camera will be defective...again.

Or maybe these are a few shots by one person, and the 'problem' is with that one person.

I just love CR for the humour and it just wouldn't be the same with out you Neuro. Of course, not everyone may share my views!

Jack

 

[tron]

Re: The first 1DXIIs are NOT out

We all know about the Mirror Box issues in the last 1DX. Some are starting to get nervous when they see shots like this.

Lol, well I guess you are getting nervous. Maybe the entire production run of 1D X II cameras will completely shatter into component pieces afte the 200th shutter press. Or maybe just your camera will be defective...again.

Or maybe these are a few shots by one person, and the 'problem' is with that one person.

I just love CR for the humour and it just wouldn't be the same with out you Neuro. Of course, not everyone may share my views!

Jack

I do not believe that there will be a mirror box issue. I believe they have already addressed that. So if therewill be a problem it will be a different one. That has the advantage of helping us avoid boredom ;D ;D ;D

Happy 1DxII waiting ;D ;D ;D

 

[scyrene]

Re: The first 1DXIIs are out - NOT IMPRESSED

I looked at all these photos and I must agree. I'm not impressed with the IQ at all. I've pre-ordered the camera. Know there are copies out there and perhaps this is an indication as to why Canon has NOT released any RAWS?

As discussed above, the issues with these images are not a reflection on the camera, but the technique used. There's no camera-specific issue that would cause motion blur due to too-long exposure, nor to cause such shots to be uploaded to a gallery. The 1DxII will be amazing. Worrying about it based on a few shots on a random website is absurd, especially if you can afford to get one.

That's not to say there might not be early hiccups. That's the risk you take for being an early adopter of anything.

 

[kozakm00]

Re: The first 1DXIIs are out - NOT IMPRESSED

I looked at all these photos and I must agree. I'm not impressed with the IQ at all. I've pre-ordered the camera. Know there are copies out there and perhaps this is an indication as to why Canon has NOT released any RAWS?

Also Canon has just pushed the release of the camera to May vs, April. Could there be a flaw? We all know about the Mirror Box issues in the last 1DX. Some are starting to get nervous when they see shots like this.

It's their policy not to publish full res samples (JPG or RAW) from preproduction cameras. I have hundreds of 1D X II RAW files, but all I can publish is 50 % or less downscaled JPGs. From my testing IQ is greate, noise levels are slightly lower, but noise is very monochromatic, no bandind, no pattern, no color blotches. +5 EV push is no longer a problem. My personal guess is slightly bigger high ISO noise, but better DR all over the ISO range

 

[zim]

@ Jack & David

Sitting at work (lunch) reading your posts very very envious...... actually I hate the pair of you, enjoy ;D ;D ;D

 

[Jack Douglas]

zim, I've done my envy duty sitting at lunch with sandwich in hand and can relate very well.
I seriously doubt that the quality of my photos will improve much but the fun factor will!!

And I'm determined do more video with that amazing AF and a gimbal.

Jack