The Last, Best Hope For A Digital Camera Rebound Is Failing

AvTvM said:
mkabi said:
I mean, obvioiusly I'm comparing his A7R to your EOS M, and they may be apples to oranges, but really.... Canon may already have a A7R killer... just saying.
In fact, if I'm not wrong, Sony themselves may have an A7R killer, it is called the NEX 7?

no ... on all counts. Everything mirrorless except the Sony A7/R is just a 5c gumball game. :-)

  • EOS-M has no viewfinder, no built-in flash, no 135 sensor. It has just sold due to 5c gumball firesale price
  • Sony NEX-7 is too large for a crop sensor and has a god-awful, unusable NEX user-interface.
  • mFT and 1" all have too small a sensor for still too large body and lenses
  • EOS-M2 has small enough body, but not even the Japanese got a compact "folding-design" kitzoom for it
  • Nikon brings such a compact folding-design DX 18-55 VR II kit zoom, without having a matching mirrorless body
call it funny or just plain stupid.

Not funny: Sony A7/R unfortunately is not good enough ... I am really grateful for the user reviews here! Saves me having to purchase one and find out myself.
sigh. :-\

So I correct my previous post. I want a "Sony A8R killer" from Canon. Whatever it's called, make it good, make it 36x24 sensored and make it free of moving parts. :-)

Bros... buddy... pal... I'm not trying to be insulting.... I'm not picking a fight with you or anyone else on this forum. I see this forum and any forum as a place for discussion, a place to mutually learn... not to just push my ideas and stick with it. Its not a dictatorship.

Nonetheless, I don't know if you're actually listening to yourself when you're writing these posts.
But you're one of the few people who think that MILC is the future... yet you've just put down (as in insulted) all the existing MILCs out there... including your coveted A7R.

If there is a future for MILC, then there has to be a present for MILC, which there is... but if MILCs aren't doing so well, in terms of sales... because of the lack of this or that... then there is no future for MILCs.
 
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Technology doesn't have to be superior to have a future (e.g. VHS). Obviously someone has to be doing something right or the MILC market never would have come as far as we see it today. There will always be ups and downs, but I think the market is plenty big enough for many types of camera to co-exist.
 
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9VIII said:
Technology doesn't have to be superior to have a future (e.g. VHS). Obviously someone has to be doing something right or the MILC market never would have come as far as we see it today. There will always be ups and downs, but I think the market is plenty big enough for many types of camera to co-exist.

I agree with you in that tech doesn't necessarily have to be superior to have a future. However, the tech does need to be easily adoptable across a large mass of consumers. VHS was not necessarily the best tech, but many companies were on board and made it the standard. It was also not something that required you to further expend copious amounts of cash to play. That differs from mirrorless cameras in that any of the new systems requires a huge investment in cash and commitment to using them.

Furthermore, people forget that at the end of the day, the goal is to make pictures. It doesn't matter how good any particular feature/s of a camera is tech-wise if the end result isn't very easy/or is a pain to get to.

This is why I appreciated the 5D3 for what it was. Sure, I wished it had a better sensor. But that same thing could be said for a lot of things as it is quite a slippery slope to go down. People often knock the 5D3 for so many things when they are picking it apart. However, it is by far the most intuitive/easy to use tool I have ever owned when used in every application I needed it for to make images exactly as I envisioned them. There is something to be said about that now that I have used many different systems over the years.
 
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mkabi said:
... yet you've just put down (as in insulted) all the existing MILCs out there...

oO buddy ... I feel so bad now. Having insulted all existing mirrorless cameras must be a terrible and despicable crime. Not to mention my repeated insults hurled at big fat old and ugly mirrorslapping DSLRs. oO ... I am guilty indeed.

In order to minimize the damage I urge you all to go and spend your hard-earned or not so hard-earned money on insufficient mirrorless consumer crap and on antiquated last century tech mechanical mirrorslapping beasts ... Yes, go and buy buy buy, fill the coffers of those incredibly brave and innovative camera companies. Splurge on half- and quarter-sized sensors, on viewfinder- and clueless consumer devices, on mirrored and submirrored professional devices, don't hesitate, buy, buy buy, spend spend spend ...since i will have to chastise myself and withhold from indulging in the pleasures of this world's cameras ... I will have to wait and watch .. Until redemption day finally arrives and i am given my prize, my treasure ... The holy grail ...only to the faithful few ... a wonderfully perfect, small light and incredibly compezent camera without any moving mechanical parts ... Truly digital ... Capturing photons and converting them into electrons directly, without detour ... No smoke, no mirrors.
ROFL
;-)
 
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AvTvM said:
mkabi said:
... yet you've just put down (as in insulted) all the existing MILCs out there...

oO buddy ... I feel so bad now. Having insulted all existing mirrorless cameras must be a terrible and despicable crime. Not to mention my repeated insults hurled at big fat old and ugly mirrorslapping DSLRs. oO ... I am guilty indeed.

In order to minimize the damage I urge you all to go and spend your hard-earned or not so hard-earned money on insufficient mirrorless consumer crap and on antiquated last century tech mechanical mirrorslapping beasts ... Yes, go and buy buy buy, fill the coffers of those incredibly brave and innovative camera companies. Splurge on half- and quarter-sized sensors, on viewfinder- and clueless consumer devices, on mirrored and submirrored professional devices, don't hesitate, buy, buy buy, spend spend spend ...since i will have to chastise myself and withhold from indulging in the pleasures of this world's cameras ... I will have to wait and watch .. Until redemption day finally arrives and i am given my prize, my treasure ... The holy grail ...only to the faithful few ... a wonderfully perfect, small light and incredibly compezent camera without any moving mechanical parts ... Truly digital ... Capturing photons and converting them into electrons directly, without detour ... No smoke, no mirrors.
ROFL
;-)

Have you watched 'Back to the Future'?
If not, I urge you to watch it and complain to Toyota of its antiquated technology or better yet... go to Toyotarumors.com and complain there.
 
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distant.star said:
.
Wow!
So many words.
I think there are more words here than there are mirrorless cameras in the world.
It seems that there are people with hatred of the old and good mirror. :P If relying on my opinion, there may be interesting mirrorless cameras for specific uses, such as photo studio and landscape. But I honestly do not see a future where mirrorless will do better, what 1DX does today. ::) Ironically, Canon has the most revolutionary technology to mirrorless (dual pixel AF) and not yet built any mirrorless camera with this asset. ???
 
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AvTvM said:
mkabi said:
... yet you've just put down (as in insulted) all the existing MILCs out there...

oO buddy ... I feel so bad now. Having insulted all existing mirrorless cameras must be a terrible and despicable crime. Not to mention my repeated insults hurled at big fat old and ugly mirrorslapping DSLRs. oO ... I am guilty indeed.

In order to minimize the damage I urge you all to go and spend your hard-earned or not so hard-earned money on insufficient mirrorless consumer crap and on antiquated last century tech mechanical mirrorslapping beasts ... Yes, go and buy buy buy, fill the coffers of those incredibly brave and innovative camera companies. Splurge on half- and quarter-sized sensors, on viewfinder- and clueless consumer devices, on mirrored and submirrored professional devices, don't hesitate, buy, buy buy, spend spend spend ...since i will have to chastise myself and withhold from indulging in the pleasures of this world's cameras ... I will have to wait and watch .. Until redemption day finally arrives and i am given my prize, my treasure ... The holy grail ...only to the faithful few ... a wonderfully perfect, small light and incredibly compezent camera without any moving mechanical parts ... Truly digital ... Capturing photons and converting them into electrons directly, without detour ... No smoke, no mirrors.
ROFL
;-)
wow man, i read your posts and wonder...what are you smoking and can i get some of that??? You make a mirrorless camera sound like it was invented in fairy land with magic pixie dust and delivered by doves on pillows of satin....LOL...

the funny thing is I really don't think anyone here is truely against mirrorless tech. most of us die hard slr posters here have said again and again that once there is a viable body we'll use it. The part you just don't seem to get though is that not enough people are smoking what your smokin!!! There is no perfect tool, with the exception of maybe things like the wheel, and a hammer...

You just can't put the cart before the horse. Is it feasible that over the next few decades sensors may be made that can produce the same or better IQ and resolution but be much smaller? Of course that can happen, at the expense of a whole butt ton of R&D money. Is it worth it to put that kind of $$$ into that? Is the benefit really there?

why redesign the wheel? I keep saying it and saying it and I know there are others on the same page with me here - why is there the insistence on tying mirrorless tech to smaller size factor? I think the research on the market for this is done, sales data shows this ---the desire just isn't there. For most consumers - those that want smaller size also want a smaller price. This whole segment of the consumer base isn't even buying cameras now because they have their cell phones!!! the rest are enthusiast's hobbyists and pros. People who would buy new products if you take the risk factor away - risk factor of investing in a system that IS struggling to get a foothold.

So why redesign the wheel. Just use the current form factor and lens mount. Problem mostly solved. Think about it, your dream comes to reality much quicker if all the R&D can go to improving AF, the EVF, and battery life - instead of just trying to make things smaller and lighter
 
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Chuck Alaimo said:
AvTvM said:
mkabi said:
... yet you've just put down (as in insulted) all the existing MILCs out there...

oO buddy ... I feel so bad now. Having insulted all existing mirrorless cameras must be a terrible and despicable crime. Not to mention my repeated insults hurled at big fat old and ugly mirrorslapping DSLRs. oO ... I am guilty indeed.

In order to minimize the damage I urge you all to go and spend your hard-earned or not so hard-earned money on insufficient mirrorless consumer crap and on antiquated last century tech mechanical mirrorslapping beasts ... Yes, go and buy buy buy, fill the coffers of those incredibly brave and innovative camera companies. Splurge on half- and quarter-sized sensors, on viewfinder- and clueless consumer devices, on mirrored and submirrored professional devices, don't hesitate, buy, buy buy, spend spend spend ...since i will have to chastise myself and withhold from indulging in the pleasures of this world's cameras ... I will have to wait and watch .. Until redemption day finally arrives and i am given my prize, my treasure ... The holy grail ...only to the faithful few ... a wonderfully perfect, small light and incredibly compezent camera without any moving mechanical parts ... Truly digital ... Capturing photons and converting them into electrons directly, without detour ... No smoke, no mirrors.
ROFL
;-)
wow man, i read your posts and wonder...what are you smoking and can i get some of that??? You make a mirrorless camera sound like it was invented in fairy land with magic pixie dust and delivered by doves on pillows of satin....LOL...

the funny thing is I really don't think anyone here is truely against mirrorless tech. most of us die hard slr posters here have said again and again that once there is a viable body we'll use it. The part you just don't seem to get though is that not enough people are smoking what your smokin!!! There is no perfect tool, with the exception of maybe things like the wheel, and a hammer...

You just can't put the cart before the horse. Is it feasible that over the next few decades sensors may be made that can produce the same or better IQ and resolution but be much smaller? Of course that can happen, at the expense of a whole butt ton of R&D money. Is it worth it to put that kind of $$$ into that? Is the benefit really there?

why redesign the wheel? I keep saying it and saying it and I know there are others on the same page with me here - why is there the insistence on tying mirrorless tech to smaller size factor? I think the research on the market for this is done, sales data shows this ---the desire just isn't there. For most consumers - those that want smaller size also want a smaller price. This whole segment of the consumer base isn't even buying cameras now because they have their cell phones!!! the rest are enthusiast's hobbyists and pros. People who would buy new products if you take the risk factor away - risk factor of investing in a system that IS struggling to get a foothold.

So why redesign the wheel. Just use the current form factor and lens mount. Problem mostly solved. Think about it, your dream comes to reality much quicker if all the R&D can go to improving AF, the EVF, and battery life - instead of just trying to make things smaller and lighter
+1, except I'm not sure that I would describe a hammer as a perfect tool :) Like cameras, there is a lot of variety... I've go a 4oz hammer, 8oz hammer, 16oz hammer, framing hammer, small and large ball-pein hammer, drywall hammer, roofing hammer, dead-blow hammer, assorted mallets (hammer made of wood), short-handle 2 lb sledge, and my personal favourite, the 8 pound sledge hammer....
 
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Don Haines said:
I've got a 4oz hammer...

Which would be great for cracking open nuts, but lousy at demolishing a brick wall.

Don Haines said:
I've got a 4oz hammer...and my personal favourite, the 8 pound sledge hammer....

Which would be lousy for cracking open nuts, but great at demolishing a brick wall.

I'm still trying to figure out the optimal use for the current full frame mirrorless offerings… :P
 
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neuroanatomist said:
Don Haines said:
I've got a 4oz hammer...

Which would be great for cracking open nuts, but lousy at demolishing a brick wall.

Don Haines said:
I've got a 4oz hammer...and my personal favourite, the 8 pound sledge hammer....

Which would be lousy for cracking open nuts, but great at demolishing a brick wall.

I'm still trying to figure out the optimal use for the current full frame mirrorless offerings… :P
Cracking open nuts?
 
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Don Haines said:
TAF said:
Chuck Alaimo said:
pharp said:
It's becoming a moot point - videographers who use DSLRs, don't use the OVF anyway, they get loupes - using the 5D or 7D essentially as a MILC camera. I use a loupe for macro work in live view. If they got rid of the mirror box altogether, they could make a better form factor. Seeing that Canon is emphasizing video and has the dual pixel AF - we may yet get something like that.

I would love a sensibly designed camera with a 3" eye level EVF - could be done. It really makes no sense to have a tiny eye level EVF and a large one on the back - one large eye level one should be fine. We're stuck in the DSLR mindset.
shooting with a long lens, holding thew cam in front of you looking at the live view panel is not the most stable way to shoot!!!! That's why it's designed that way, by holding the camera to your eye you have the perfect balance to get a steady shot. Your elbows basically form a tripod...

Notice too...most video folks also use some kind of harness or a monopod to steady the camera.

So, from a still shooters perspective, it makes perfect sense to have that tiny OVF or EVF. Video has different needs...
Put a 3-4" retina like display on the top, a full frame sensor (with dual pixel AF) inside, and an EF mount on the front, and you've got a design that would be easy to hold stably, can be used over your head in crowds (like the classic TLR can), and if you really want to use it at eye level, a pentaprism like assembly could attach to the top or back (it could be an EVF or a mirror on the top, on the back it would need to be an EVF). The connector for that optional EVF could feed external monitors (perfect for studio work). External grips could be anything you want.
One of the things I like about touchscreen interfaces and WiFi is that we are no longer bound by having the viewfinder attached to the camera.... It can be a phone or a tablet 30 feet away.


Which could certainly be an option (built in or extra...probably extra knowing Canon).
 
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ajfotofilmagem said:
It seems that we are reaching a consensus on the absurdity of wanting a mirrorles that is full frame and while it is small and lightweight. The small distance between lens and sensor still causes problems at the edges of the sensor, even using special microlenses. In the current technological level, it is perfectly plausible a mirrorless camera compatible with EF lenses, with full frame dual pixel AF sensor with 40 megapixel. Could be a great camera for studio and landscape, with OLED viewfinder with large area and a articulate LCD screen of 5 inches. Similar to current hasselblad body would allow a high capacity battery and optimum heat dissipation. It would be intended for people who do not need the speed of 1DX, and not wanting a small body with A7r.

See reply #110. And now that Canon has announced the VIXIA Mini X, it becomes clear that at least SOMEONE at Canon is willing the thing beyond the form factor of the SLR.

Perhaps we will see the "Canon 3003" (or would that be the Canon 500?) in the not too distance future.
 
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Don Haines said:
neuroanatomist said:
Don Haines said:
I've got a 4oz hammer...

Which would be great for cracking open nuts, but lousy at demolishing a brick wall.

Don Haines said:
I've got a 4oz hammer...and my personal favourite, the 8 pound sledge hammer....

Which would be lousy for cracking open nuts, but great at demolishing a brick wall.

I'm still trying to figure out the optimal use for the current full frame mirrorless offerings… :P
Cracking open nuts?

not sure they'd be good for that...lol
 
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Don Haines said:
neuroanatomist said:
Don Haines said:
I've got a 4oz hammer...

Which would be great for cracking open nuts, but lousy at demolishing a brick wall.

Don Haines said:
I've got a 4oz hammer...and my personal favourite, the 8 pound sledge hammer....

Which would be lousy for cracking open nuts, but great at demolishing a brick wall.

I'm still trying to figure out the optimal use for the current full frame mirrorless offerings… :P
Cracking open nuts?

Maybe. But I have a 1D X for that! :P
 
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ajfotofilmagem said:
It seems that there are people with hatred of the old and good mirror. :P If relying on my opinion, there may be interesting mirrorless cameras for specific uses, such as photo studio and landscape. But I honestly do not see a future where mirrorless will do better, what 1DX does today. ::) Ironically, Canon has the most revolutionary technology to mirrorless (dual pixel AF) and not yet built any mirrorless camera with this asset. ???

I have no hatred against the "good old" mirror. It has served me as well as it has served most of us here ... for many years up to now. When the world was still mechanical and analogue, mirror plus prism were the best possible way to let photographers see the world exactly as the their cameras were seeing it. No more "parallax problems" as with any rangefinder or two-eyed camera ... it works with any lens of any focal length from ultra-wide-angle to super-tele. The moving mirror also allowed cameras to measure ambient light levels "Through the lens" (TTL) and adding "auto-exposure" later on.

The advantage over rangefinders was so large, that over time (1960s & 1970s) the overwhelming majority of photographers anywhere on earth was willing to accept the increase in size of the cameras to provide the space for mirrorbox and prism. In the long history of pohotography and cameras, it was the first time ever, that larger boxes succeeded smaller ones. Up to then, it had alsways been the other way round: smaller, lighter, faster gear that could be used in many more places and in many more situations than the larger gear before. Maybe some compromise in image quality [smaller format imaging surface], but always huge advantages in the ability to actually GET shots: speed, handling, less bulk, less weight. That's why Oscar Barnacks invention and the small & light rangefinders were so successful. All of a sudden photographers could easily leave their studios and roam the streets, capture images "in situ" at all sorts of events from weddings to inaugurations to olympic games and any sort of sports competition.

Size does matter! :)

Thanks to digital imaging we now have the possibility to take things back on track: making phtographic devices smaller again, ending the "SLR detour". Combining everything that has made SLRs so successful [TTL, "seeing the framing as it will be captured"] with the superior portability and flexibility of small rangefinder cameras along with very compact lenses for the focal range used to capture probably more than 90% of all stills pictures [24mm to 100mm]. And "seeing the image as it will be recorded" ... in real time. [EVF with no discernible lag or blackout between shots].

In addition we can finally jettison all mechanical, moving parts inside a camera, allowing for much faster, more responsive, absolutely vibration-free and totally silent cameras. They stay perfectly calibrated and deliver crisp images in all sorts of environments and ambient temperatures and can be much better protected against dust and liquids (all it takes is a hi-grade, optically neutral protective piece of glass directly behind the lens mount) and against shocks / G-forces (any cheap USB-stick survives a drop from 5 feet onto concrete floor).

Basically we are talking about exactly the same advantages solid state "disks" (SSD) have over hard drive disks (HDD). And why and how quickly much smaller "solid state" memory has been replacing larger storage media that involves mechanics and moving parts. USB-sticks, flash cards vs. CDs, DVDs ... same thing.

Size matters. Speed matters. Convenience matters. And ... price matters. :-)

Luckily, "Solid State Cameras" are much cheaper to build (even with today's tech) since they can be assembled fully automated by fairly simple robots and/or by a much smaller, fairly unskilled and cheaper workforce than DSLRs. Far less hassle than aligning tiny mechanical components. Far easier to control quality. No lubrication oil splattering around inside an opto-mechanical precision device. No mis-alignment of mirror or sub-mirror assembly possible. No mis-alignment of AF-sensor and sensor focal plane possible. No mis-alignment of matte-screen and/or viewfinder prism possible. Image will always be captured by sensor "as seen on screen" [EVF and large screen on back].

Full, unfettered "video capability", no obstacles in the lightpath. Not that I personally would care for video. But camera makers seem to care about it all day long. ;-)

Yes, there are still a few challenges to be met and problems to be solved. But really nothing too difficult. AF-speed ... solely dependent on processing power and smart algorithms ... the latter can be implemented via firmware upgrade. Battery charge ... with clever design 500+ shots would be possible today in a still very compact body size with ergonomic grip and more battery charge, as better battery tech gets available. Still better EVFs ... no problem, they are coming fast and almost for free as a byproduct of ever improving smartphone technology.

So all that's needed is Canon (and Nikon) moving ahead rather than holding back. I do not want to buy another old-tech, soon obsolete mechanical beast. I want my solid state camera, and I want it soon. :-)
 
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Hi,
AvTvM said:
ajfotofilmagem said:
It seems that there are people with hatred of the old and good mirror. :P If relying on my opinion, there may be interesting mirrorless cameras for specific uses, such as photo studio and landscape. But I honestly do not see a future where mirrorless will do better, what 1DX does today. ::) Ironically, Canon has the most revolutionary technology to mirrorless (dual pixel AF) and not yet built any mirrorless camera with this asset. ???

I have no hatred against the "good old" mirror. It has served me as well as it has served most of us here ... for many years up to now. When the world was still mechanical and analogue, mirror plus prism were the best possible way to let photographers see the world exactly as the their cameras were seeing it. No more "parallax problems" as with any rangefinder or two-eyed camera ... it works with any lens of any focal length from ultra-wide-angle to super-tele. The moving mirror also allowed cameras to measure ambient light levels "Through the lens" (TTL) and adding "auto-exposure" later on.

The advantage over rangefinders was so large, that over time (1960s & 1970s) the overwhelming majority of photographers anywhere on earth was willing to accept the increase in size of the cameras to provide the space for mirrorbox and prism. In the long history of pohotography and cameras, it was the first time ever, that larger boxes succeeded smaller ones. Up to then, it had alsways been the other way round: smaller, lighter, faster gear that could be used in many more places and in many more situations than the larger gear before. Maybe some compromise in image quality [smaller format imaging surface], but always huge advantages in the ability to actually GET shots: speed, handling, less bulk, less weight. That's why Oscar Barnacks invention and the small & light rangefinders were so successful. All of a sudden photographers could easily leave their studios and roam the streets, capture images "in situ" at all sorts of events from weddings to inaugurations to olympic games and any sort of sports competition.

Size does matter! :)

Thanks to digital imaging we now have the possibility to take things back on track: making phtographic devices smaller again, ending the "SLR detour". Combining everything that has made SLRs so successful [TTL, "seeing the framing as it will be captured"] with the superior portability and flexibility of small rangefinder cameras along with very compact lenses for the focal range used to capture probably more than 90% of all stills pictures [24mm to 100mm]. And "seeing the image as it will be recorded" ... in real time. [EVF with no discernible lag or blackout between shots].

In addition we can finally jettison all mechanical, moving parts inside a camera, allowing for much faster, more responsive, absolutely vibration-free and totally silent cameras. They stay perfectly calibrated and deliver crisp images in all sorts of environments and ambient temperatures and can be much better protected against dust and liquids (all it takes is a hi-grade, optically neutral protective piece of glass directly behind the lens mount) and against shocks / G-forces (any cheap USB-stick survives a drop from 5 feet onto concrete floor).

Basically we are talking about exactly the same advantages solid state "disks" (SSD) have over hard drive disks (HDD). And why and how quickly much smaller "solid state" memory has been replacing larger storage media that involves mechanics and moving parts. USB-sticks, flash cards vs. CDs, DVDs ... same thing.

Size matters. Speed matters. Convenience matters. And ... price matters. :-)

Luckily, "Solid State Cameras" are much cheaper to build (even with today's tech) since they can be assembled fully automated by fairly simple robots and/or by a much smaller, fairly unskilled and cheaper workforce than DSLRs. Far less hassle than aligning tiny mechanical components. Far easier to control quality. No lubrication oil splattering around inside an opto-mechanical precision device. No mis-alignment of mirror or sub-mirror assembly possible. No mis-alignment of AF-sensor and sensor focal plane possible. No mis-alignment of matte-screen and/or viewfinder prism possible. Image will always be captured by sensor "as seen on screen" [EVF and large screen on back].

Full, unfettered "video capability", no obstacles in the lightpath. Not that I personally would care for video. But camera makers seem to care about it all day long. ;-)

Yes, there are still a few challenges to be met and problems to be solved. But really nothing too difficult. AF-speed ... solely dependent on processing power and smart algorithms ... the latter can be implemented via firmware upgrade. Battery charge ... with clever design 500+ shots would be possible today in a still very compact body size with ergonomic grip and more battery charge, as better battery tech gets available. Still better EVFs ... no problem, they are coming fast and almost for free as a byproduct of ever improving smartphone technology.

So all that's needed is Canon (and Nikon) moving ahead rather than holding back. I do not want to buy another old-tech, soon obsolete mechanical beast. I want my solid state camera, and I want it soon. :-)
Err... "solid state camera"?? Already exist and it's meet 95% of your requirement... you have it, I have it and a lot of people have it, it's call "Camera Phone".... it's better than what you describe... it's can browse internet, send/received email, read documents and communicate wirelessly, but I think only the cheapest "Camera Phone" is the only true "solid state camera" with no moving parts... the higher end model got zoom (require moving parts) and IS (require moving parts).

Have a nice day.
 
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weixing said:
Err... "solid state camera"?? Already exist and it's meet 95% of your requirement... you have it, I have it and a lot of people have it, it's call "Camera Phone".... it's better than what you describe... it's can browse internet, send/received email, read documents and communicate wirelessly, but I think only the cheapest "Camera Phone" is the only true "solid state camera" with no moving parts... the higher end model got zoom (require moving parts) and IS (require moving parts).

Have a nice day.

hehe. you are right. And I was not specific enough. :-)

So, could you please point me to a Camera Phone with 36x24mm imaging sensor and associated image quality plus a mount to attach various lenses with focal lengths ranging from 8mm to 800mm? ;)

Thanks, and have a nice day too.
 
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AvTvM said:
weixing said:
Err... "solid state camera"?? Already exist and it's meet 95% of your requirement... you have it, I have it and a lot of people have it, it's call "Camera Phone".... it's better than what you describe... it's can browse internet, send/received email, read documents and communicate wirelessly, but I think only the cheapest "Camera Phone" is the only true "solid state camera" with no moving parts... the higher end model got zoom (require moving parts) and IS (require moving parts).

Have a nice day.

hehe. you are right. And I was not specific enough. :-)

So, could you please point me to a Camera Phone with 36x24mm imaging sensor and associated image quality plus a mount to attach various lenses with focal lengths ranging from 8mm to 800mm? ;)

Thanks, and have a nice day too.
Hi,
The most difficult part is to design a lens with no moving parts to go with your no moving parts camera.

Wish you luck in finding one in the near future.

Happy New Year to all.
 
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weixing said:
The most difficult part is to design a lens with no moving parts to go with your no moving parts camera.
Wish you luck in finding one in the near future.

For a start, I'd be happy with a FF-sensored camera body with no moving mechanical parts inside.

Lenses are a different story, but I definitely see fully electronic aperture coming. Some sort of LCD, if there is one that with (close to) 100% transmission. At any opening always perfectly round, never again stuck aperture blades. Smaller and lighter. :-)

Yes, focus group will have to move mechanically - linear along optical axis, BUT only until new concepts (e.g. lightfield imaging) are available and "up to spec".

Same for in-lens IS ... elements will have to move ... UNTIL new concepts are available and up to spec (e.g. lightfield imaging).

However, even today I'd love to get "AF-only" lenses. No focus ring, no focus gear and no "distance window". Smaller & lighter. Easier to seal. And cheaper for a given optical quality. I never touch manual focus. If my 7D can't autofocus, it's too dark or too little contrast for me to see anything meaningful either. However, the latter may change with use of an EVF. :-)

I am convinced we will have "solid state imaging" ... some day. Unfortunately I am not sure if it's going to be in my lifetime though, given how un-innovative, conservative and slow-moving current imaging gear makers are. :P
 
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