The Mirrorless Movement: Sony Boasts Record Growth in Expanding Mirrorless Digital Camera Market
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To me, the milc cameras are like the viewfinder cameras of the 60's.
Lots of people had one for carry-everwhere, including kids, yet big, clunky SLR's still sold well as did mf cameras.
I remember as a kid that it wasn't unusual to see advanced amateurs walking around with a Hasselblad or Bronica, but most photographers had an SLR around their necks.
Rangefinder cameras back then were actually easier to focus than SLR's as they had split image focussing, yet even with cameras like Leicas, the SLR was still king, and regardless of how good milcs become, they will NEVER completely replace DSLRs.
A modern milc is a very good and practical camera for 90% of people.
However, for people who really want speed, ergonomics and ultimate quality, you can't beat a DSLR.
There are also many people who would be happy with a milc, but want to look like they are serious, so the just HAVE to have a DSLR, even if it's just a low-grade Rebel.
Lots of people had one for carry-everwhere, including kids, yet big, clunky SLR's still sold well as did mf cameras.
I remember as a kid that it wasn't unusual to see advanced amateurs walking around with a Hasselblad or Bronica, but most photographers had an SLR around their necks.
Rangefinder cameras back then were actually easier to focus than SLR's as they had split image focussing, yet even with cameras like Leicas, the SLR was still king, and regardless of how good milcs become, they will NEVER completely replace DSLRs.
A modern milc is a very good and practical camera for 90% of people.
However, for people who really want speed, ergonomics and ultimate quality, you can't beat a DSLR.
There are also many people who would be happy with a milc, but want to look like they are serious, so the just HAVE to have a DSLR, even if it's just a low-grade Rebel.
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Tugela said:
I'll inform my 18 year old niece, who just last week purchased a DSLR as one of her graduation presents, that she's an old, outdated fart who must live with a huge, clunky piece of junk . . .
And she's just an ordinary person who (
) didn't ask her uncle for his opinion on the purchase because I would have told her that although I shoot with a 1DX, her age dictates she purchase a MILC. : ;D
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IgotGASbadDude said:Tugela said:
I'll inform my 18 year old niece, who just last week purchased a DSLR as one of her graduation presents, that she's an old, outdated fart who must live with a huge, clunky piece of junk . . .
And she's just an ordinary person who (
That is because she is probably completely unaware that there is a mirror in there and doesn't particularly care. But, given experience with an OFV or a EFV, she would probably choose the EFV because an EFV gives much better flexibility. A DSLR is a MILC anyway, once you don't look through the viewfinder, so the camera is basically the same. You tend to have fewer options and less flexibility with the typical DSLR however. When it comes to compact systems, there are no DSLRS, only mirrorless cameras.
For the record, I didn't say ALL young/old people choose one or the other, but that is what they TEND to do. And in the long run what they tend to do is what is going to win out as the older generation dies out.
Reducing an argument into absolutes is a sure indication that your position has no merit.
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Tugela said:
In fact, I can read and interpret a graph just fine. Since you seem to be challenged by this one, let's simplify it by looking at just a few numbers. According to CIPA data for mirrorless ('non-reflex') shipments:
2012: 3.96m units
2013: 3.30m units
2014: 3.29m units
Please, tell me again who is being fooled? :
Tugela said:
Being completely wrong about basic, relevant facts is an even surer indication that your position has no merit, and moreover it calls the credibility of your other statements into question.
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Orangutan said:
Why do you assume he is one person
I have it on good authority that 6 different people around the world post under his account. They each take two 2 hour shifts a day ;D
He is thinking of incorporating! Dilbert needs to form his own corporation or go Neuro (otic).
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Mt Spokane Photography said:Orangutan said:
Why do you assume he is one person
I have it on good authority that 6 different people around the world post under his account. They each take two 2 hour shifts a day ;D
He is thinking of incorporating! Dilbert needs to form his own corporation or go Neuro (otic).
Hmmm...you may be on to something: it could be one of those franchise deals like DPR from The Princess Bride.
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Hypocrite? "Reducing an argument into absolutes is a sure indication that your position has no merit."
And then there's your stereotype based on age:
So your argument is that young people choose one & old people choose another, and the basis for your argument is the scientifically verified "everyone I know" statement?
I can tell you for fact if I interviewed the 1400+ teenagers I see on a daily basis I doubt 5 in the whole group would even know a mirrored from a mirrorless camera so your argument that younger people are more in tune with one technology or the other is utter rubbish.
I can promise you one thing: not ONE of them would say "I would purchase this camera because it is mirror-less and the reason it is better is . . . "
Tugela said:
And then there's your stereotype based on age:
Tugela said:
So your argument is that young people choose one & old people choose another, and the basis for your argument is the scientifically verified "everyone I know" statement?
I can tell you for fact if I interviewed the 1400+ teenagers I see on a daily basis I doubt 5 in the whole group would even know a mirrored from a mirrorless camera so your argument that younger people are more in tune with one technology or the other is utter rubbish.
I can promise you one thing: not ONE of them would say "I would purchase this camera because it is mirror-less and the reason it is better is . . . "
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Here is the latest CIPA data as graphed by the personal-view.com website...
These are global shipments, but obvious localized maxima occurs prior to Father's Day/Graduation/Start of summer (U.S. perspective) and prior to Christmas holiday season. The good news is that shipments of DSLR's and MILC's to the US are better than last year.
It's interesting to me that the prior reference in this thread to the DSLRphoto.com listing of top 80 DSLR cameras in Japan includes three Olympus mirrorless cameras in the top 20 DSLR sales? How reliable is that data??? Even more interesting is that the wide majority of sales shown seems to be either body with single wide range zoom or a double zoom lens kit. That implies these are all "one shot buyers" and not people concerned about building a system. Those of us who do care about their system are clearly a small - perhaps vocal - minority.
These are global shipments, but obvious localized maxima occurs prior to Father's Day/Graduation/Start of summer (U.S. perspective) and prior to Christmas holiday season. The good news is that shipments of DSLR's and MILC's to the US are better than last year.
It's interesting to me that the prior reference in this thread to the DSLRphoto.com listing of top 80 DSLR cameras in Japan includes three Olympus mirrorless cameras in the top 20 DSLR sales? How reliable is that data??? Even more interesting is that the wide majority of sales shown seems to be either body with single wide range zoom or a double zoom lens kit. That implies these are all "one shot buyers" and not people concerned about building a system. Those of us who do care about their system are clearly a small - perhaps vocal - minority.
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old-pr-pix said:
Thanks. It's always good to see the actual data. Although I expect people will still interpret it based on their own biases. To my eyes, it looks like the relative positions of each format are fairly stable and unlikely to change absent a major disruption in the market.
old-pr-pix said:
No argument there.
That's one reason, why I don't think Canon and Nikon are really risking that much by taking a conservative approach to mirrorless. If the trend lines begin to change, they can jump into the market in a serious way and by virtue of their market dominance, they won't have much problem overtaking the current niche players.
I would argue, though, that currently for that small, vocal minority it makes more sense to invest in a DSLR system. With current technology, the size advantage of mirrorless disappears once you put on a longer telephoto lens or an extreme wide-angle. So, go beyond about 28-135mm and your better off with the advantages of a DSLR. Now, whether or not those advantages (autofocus, optical view finder, etc.) shrink over time is anyone's guess.
Overall, I find this whole debate a little pointless. If mirrorless cameras ever become better than DSLRs then customers may switch. But, with the current state of technology, most customers are still choosing DSLRs.
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Remember, these are shipments, not sales. My guess is that in recent past there was a lot of "stocking-up" in anticipation of significant holiday sales volume and in an effort to garner any year-end rebates from manufacturers. That results in a natural "post-holiday" lull, especially if stores didn't sell all they anticipated. Given shipping times, it's natural to see a rise in Oct/Nov shipments to have product on the shelf for Dec. Same for Apr/May pre-summer/graduations/Fathers Day.
There could be a lot of other factors in play as well... manufacturer specials/rebates, new models, exchange rate fluctuations, etc.
There could be a lot of other factors in play as well... manufacturer specials/rebates, new models, exchange rate fluctuations, etc.
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Tugela said:
Bearing in mind that I live in highly urbanised country with a reputation of being early adopters of new technology, but if I go to a camera club event, where the members are generally older people and a mix of professionals and keen amateurs, it's almost 100% DSLR. If I turn up with a Fuji, luckily one of the 80 year olds will give me a kind word of advice and tell me that the easiest way to improve my photography is to buy a real camera. Usually a Canon. (No offence meant to the 80 year olds in my club, they are typically much better photographers than me!).
But out and about in the general population, I'd say its 50:50 between DSLRs and mirrorless with most of the DSLRs being older models.
Rather than sales statistics, I'd be curious to see a comparison of the number of photos taken with current model DSLRs vs current model mirrorless cameras. I also get the impression that mirrorless users are more active and visible than what the sales figures suggest.
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