There will not be an EOS 5D Mark V [CR2]

[hollybush]

Why can't Canon just release a roadmap of future bodies? Why always so secret? Why does this site even have to exist? Because that gives them the power to influence purchasing decisions *now*.

No-one's making you buy. The mushrooming that's going on does indeed colour my attitudes to the companies doing it (Canon is not the only one) and make me less likely to buy their products. One option is not to buy *anyone's* camera products.

 

[Michael Clark]

This is really a sad move from Canon. And stupid too. And somehow so careless towards their DSLR users. I understand mirrorless cameras are the future, but why making a switch like this? Why do not provide us with an overlap between similarly spec'd DSLR and mirrorless cameras so that we can compare, use both and decide how to make the transition (if ever so)

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[Michael Clark]

So much talk about not getting a 5D5 but so little talk about what the OVF product in development might be. If it's taking any length of time to develop, then we can expect something novel:

• An DSLR with a switch-flip to locks up the mirror and pops up an EVF in the viewfinder. Because right now the biggest drawback of the 1DX3 is having to use the rear screen in live view to get mirrorless-level AF performance.
• Perhaps they have developed a way to physically mirror the light up to an OVF while still retaining the short RF mount – and they add to that the pop-up EVF for a complete hybrid R1 experience.

Not saying either of these options will happen, but it's sure more fun than crying over the 5D5.

The OVF AF system in the 1D X Mark III is not a typical PDAF line sensor like every previous Canon AF SLR/DSLR.

It's actually another small CMOS sensor that does AF in the exact same way that mirrorless cameras do.

The only disadvantages are 1) possible alignment issues - is the secondary CMOS sensor the same optical distance from the lens as the main imaging sensor? and 2) lower resolution than the main imaging sensor. An advantage, though, is that it is monochromatic with no Bayer mask. This somewhat makes up for the lower resolution, gives it more sensitivity on a pixel size basis than if it had a Bayer mask, and also allows faster processing of the information it collects. The RGB+IR light meter is a THIRD CMOS sensor that feeds color information to the AF processor as well as provides metering information.

 

[Michael Clark]

1Dx sR anyone?

In proper Canon syntax that would be '1D Xs R'

 

[Quarkcharmed]

You make a false assumption that at 120 fps there are not multiple frame in the pipeline simultaneously.

I didn't make that assumption, moreover, I highlighted the possibility of multithreading.

 

[Michael Clark]

I just remember the 7D2 vanishing overnight.

It was there, then it was gone.

Maybe the 5D4 will be a different story, but with the big push to mirrorless I wouldn't be surprised to see the same thing happen to the 5D4.

The 7D Mark II is still in the catalog. It just changed from the original SKU number (#9128B002 ) to a new SKU (#9128B126 ) because they include the WiFi card with it now.

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[Michael Clark]

I didn't make that assumption, moreover, I highlighted the possibility of multithreading.

It has nothing to do with multithreading or not. Just because a screen refreshes at 120Hz does not mean what struck the sensor 8.3 milliseconds ago is now being displayed. There is still lag between the sensor and the VF to allow for processing of the sensor data to a viewable image.

 

[YuengLinger]

I think we still have to see how it performs on an r5 but on my eos it performs as well if not faster to focus than on my 5ds or my mark iv. Have had zero issues using all my ef glass on the R. I have been doing this for a living for over 30 years, I tend to be more of a studio shooter , but in my personal work shoot travel, street photography and live music. what I have hated about the r is the lack of a joystick and a scroll wheel everything else I like better than my dslr's . I have not found the evf to be an issue at all even shooting live concerts, at this point, when i grab a camera it is mirrorless, I have a fuji system, a leica q, and the eos r, all the other dslrs sit on the shelf. I am happy to see the r and d go to improving the mirrorless experience for those that want to keep shooting dslr's we won't run of any on the used market anytime soon. No shortage of film cameras for sale used either. If nothing else pentax is committed to dslrs so you could switch systems.

I agree with you to an extent, though some might quibble over the term "perform." The benefits of using an EF lens on the R include the near WYSIWYG exposure, the better AF for static/barely moving subjects (which includes the enhanced AI Servo making f/1.2 easy now), and, for those so inclined, the excellent alignment triangles for manual focusing.

There are two negatives, however, that might fall under the term "perform." Most obviously, the ergonomics. The size and weight of the R, combined with the extra length given to lenses by the adapater, do make a significant difference in how certain lenses handle. Personally, I switched to the RF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS because, on the R with the adapter, I could not hold it properly in portrait mode. Of course this affects different people in different ways, but ergonomics are assoicated with performance.

The more subtle performance issue relates to High-Speed display, which Canon says "is more responsive, making it easier to follow fast-moving subjects." High-Speed display is only available for RF lenses on the EOS R. (Page 149, User Guide) Will this be the same on the new bodies? If not, will better processing make up for it to a significant degree?

 

[AEWest]

For a new 5DV to sell well, it would need to be released in late 2021 to allow all the R5 people to migrate if they were going to. It would need to include:
- all the R5 bits (excluding EVF)
- the AF system from the 1DXII
- extended video recording limits due to bigger/better heat dissipation
The price will be higher than the R5 to compensate for the extra R&D and less sales. LP-3NH battery will give even more battery life for the OVF shooting

The ergonomics is the question for me....
- A flippy screen will cost a lot to redesign the 5Div so it may not be included and may be perceived as less rugged. Would this stop new buyers?
- Adding the fancy AF-on button from the 1DXIII could offset a flippy screen option and should be a simpler swap though that would mean more firmware/circuitry to include/test.

Why would anyone pay more for a camera with an obsolete mount and inferior AF system?

 

[londonxt]

I think the big clue is the motive behind the RF mount, it was always sold to us by Canon Management as equal to the revoluationary move to EF, where Nikon suffered by tying itself to legacy specs for too long. To me it just doesnt sound like they want RF to be an option, but the only option. The question then it does it make sense to put money into developing a DSLR with an RF mount, technically or economically speaking.

 

[yeahright]

It has nothing to do with multithreading or not. Just because a screen refreshes at 120Hz does not mean what struck the sensor 8.3 milliseconds ago is now being displayed. There is still lag between the sensor and the VF to allow for processing of the sensor data to a viewable image.

It does indeed have something to do with multithreading. Because for an image to take longer than 1/(EVF refresh rate) from capture to display, a pipeline is required through which the images travel while being buffered and processed for display. And such a pipeline is inherently a multithreaded construction.

 

[Michael Clark]

It does indeed have something to do with multithreading. Because for an image to take longer than 1/(EVF refresh rate) from capture to display, a pipeline is required through which the images travel while being buffered and processed for display. And such a pipeline is inherently a multithreaded construction.

You still can't go instantly from readout to display. The processing in between takes time. There's no way a 120Hz system will display on the EVF what happened only 8.33 milliseconds earlier on the sensor.

 

[AEWest]

Ok, that's a sad enough news for me. Personally I can understand the financial standpoint of that and I agree that the R5 and R6 looks to have such impressive spec.

But personally I likely will stick to my 5D III for much longer time before I would change to mirrorless, after all acquiring all those L glass is not a cheap and easy thing to do, it takes me around 10 years to buy all those I would like to have, and I am absolutely not changing all those to the RF for better IQ than the already very good EF L glass. and while the EOS R5 and R6 are guaranteed to work great with adapted EF lens, now the native mount tie to me is gone and I am open to other brand mirrorless as most have some kind of fully working EF lens adapter ready on the market. Likely I will wait for Sigma Foven MILC or try the panasonic or Leica colour when I feel the price performance is ready. now personally the game is open for me to see which system I will go next, the RF lenses to me is way to big for those crazy spec and far too expensive to make me jump directly into it

You may go to Leica because the RF is too expensive?!!

 

[Joules]

. The question then it does it make sense to put money into developing a DSLR with an RF mount, technically or economically speaking.

And the answer to that is obviously no. Fitting a mirror into the small space in front of the sensor introduces challenges that require compromising other design aspects.

Otherwise, we would have seen such a camera already.

 

[Quarkcharmed]

It has nothing to do with multithreading or not. Just because a screen refreshes at 120Hz does not mean what struck the sensor 8.3 milliseconds ago is now being displayed. There is still lag between the sensor and the VF to allow for processing of the sensor data to a viewable image.

We're returning to the old discussion - I recall we even had timeline diagrams drawn.

The lag can't be more than the EVF refresh rate, or you won't be able to feed the EVF unless there's some multithreading happening.

On the practical sense, 60fps is already smoother than human eye can distinguish, so making a 120fps EVF wouldn't make any difference if the lag was more than 1/120s.
In other words, it's 120fps in order to make the lag less than 1/120s.

 

[Michael Clark]

I agree wholeheartedly with the rest of your comment, but for this I'd just say, I photographed the comet 2 nights ago and it was fine. 180mm f/2.8, no tracking, a stack of 28x~3sec exposures brought out adequate detail. I would like to try with a tracking mount, but the northern sky is so bright here (partly due to the time of year, partly where I am due to light pollution), I'm not sure how much better it would be.

When an astronomical object is that far north, a tracking mount is less critical than when it's near the equator. The apparent motion of the celestial sphere is least at the poles and greatest at the equator.

 

[Michael Clark]

I think the real question is whether there will be a thread named:

There will not be an EOS 5D Mark V [CR3]

if so it will be this thread as he would just upgrade the CR4 rating of this one.

 

[Michael Clark]

What you're saying is - 5DX!!!

Or, more properly, 5D X

 

[Michael Clark]

Last November they predicted Olympus closure in 8 months.

Olympus controlled demolition, follow topic to get realtime updates - Personal View Talks

Olympus didn't close. They sold their consumer camera division to another company.

 

[yeahright]

We're returning to the old discussion - I recall we even had timeline diagrams drawn.

The lag can't be more than the EVF refresh rate, or you won't be able to feed the EVF unless there's some multithreading happening.

On the practical sense, 60fps is already smoother than human eye can distinguish, so making a 120fps EVF wouldn't make any difference if the lag was more than 1/120s.
In other words, it's 120fps in order to make the lag less than 1/120s.

well, for any lag between capture and display (while being processed in a pipeline), an increase of the capture and viewfinder frame rate would also reduce the (average) lag from action to display. Even if the lag from capture to display is as long as 1/30 s, then the average lag from action taking place to display on a 60 fps display is 1/(30 Hz) + 1/(2*60 Hz) = 0.0417 s, and on a 120 fps display it is only 1/(30 Hz) + 1/(2*120 Hz) = 0.0375 s, because the expected instant of occurance of the action is always halfway between captures. But the larger the lag from capture to display, the less gain you get by increasing the frame rate in the viewfinder. In this numeric example it is minimal. So the 120 Hz could either be because lag from capture to display is really down to around 1/(120 Hz), or it is merely a number for marketing but without much actual sense.