This web site is making me question why I lurk here

[cpsico]

It was a well written post, however until you can prove you are a better photographer than the people you call hacks you have no valid ground to stand on. Having a user name meant to invoke thoughts of a well known photographer is simply not good enough. PS Ansel adams was not known for his expensive high end camera gear. He just photographed what he loved and it shows in the work, skip the nerdy techy crud and just shoot what you personally love to shoot. If everyone else likes it fine, but that really isnt the point

 

[V8Beast]

So if I'm reading things correctly, this thread has become a technique vs. gear debate? Here's my worthless take, from observing how the industry has changed with the advent of digital in the last 10 years.

1) The big tech head photographers - those that know everything there is to know about everything from DxOMark test standards to film emulsions - often produce very underwhelming work.

2) The artsy-fartsy "seat-of-the-pants" photographers - some who don't even know how many megapixels their camera has (that's not a joke!) - often produce the best work.

Nonetheless, the best photographers are the ones that are a combination of #1 and #2. Not only do they have the natural artistic qualities that can't be taught in a book or in a classroom, they also supplement those abilities with booksmarts which ultimately enhances their work. These chaps have managed to strike the ideal balance between the technical and artistic elements that are required to produce outstanding photography. That means you have to always work to improve your technique, but you also have to stay on top of the latest and greatest technology, as technology offers new venues and opportunities through which to push the limits of creativity.

I've witnessed many photographers that were the class of the field during the film era that flat out got left behind after the digital revolution. They refused to embrace digital for as long as they could, and once they did, they were WAY behind the curve. Competitors had already refined their post processing skills, and learned to refine their technique in the field to best utilize the flexibility of digital. Maybe the purists thought the digital guys were silly tech heads, but ultimately, many purists got left in the dust.

There will always be those that produce underwhelming images with overwhelming equipment, and those that produce overwhelming images with underwhelming equipment. It's all about finding a balancing act between both extremes. IMHO, it's the photographers that continually hone their technique as new technology opens new creative possibilities for them that will rise to the top.

 

[unfocused]

V8: Good post.

One thought: This isn't new with digital. I remember a lesson I learned back in the ancient 70s when I was a struggling newspaper photographer. The other photographer was a much better technician, but whenever we had to shoot a portrait of somebody for the paper, the subjects very seldom liked his pictures.

Eventually I figured out why that was. He spent so much time perfecting the lighting that he never paid any attention to the subjects. I was then, and still am a "seat of the pants" sort of guy. So, I'd get the lights up as simply as possible, usually with just a nice, soft umbrella, but all the time I was setting things up I'd talk to the person, find out what their story was, and just generally try to distract them and make them more comfortable.

The lesson I learned: Photography, like everything else is about 10% technical skill and 90% people skills. If you can't empathize with people, put yourself into their shoes and have a real interest in them, it usually comes across in your pictures.

I suspect that even if your business is taking beautiful images of incredible cars, you're still dependent on your people skills.

 

[Dylan777]

As a long time lurker and recent active poster I continue to be shocked by the thrashing, whining and crying here regarding the real and imagined limitations of the 5D Mark III. If you read Nikon Rumors ( you should it is very informative and professional) nothing like that happened there with their two recent introductions and there were almost no catty attacks at Canon as you find regularly against Nikon and any firm that doesn't worship Canon properly or at the same time knock it down appropriately.

What I find most interesting is the crappy quality of 90% of the photos that these anxious obsessives have posted here to get feedback. I'm talking about crappy composition, worthless lighting, impossible focusing situations, horrible white balance and basically most norms of decent photography violated in the service of complaining, worrying or hand wringing. Much of this was just impulsive childish behavior - pure and simple. When you can't tell the trolls from the faithful things have gotten out of hand.

That all said, of course there are issues and the camera, as amazing as it is, did not meet all the expectations and there have been some surprises. How could it? There were compromises made along the way - ie. 22 vs 36 Megapixels - there would have been complaints either way. You can just make a list but from where I sit it is was mainly cup half empty or half full. I have played with two copies and I would love to have one!

I wonder what the reception would have been if it was priced $1,000 cheaper? Would it have been received with less anger and skepticism. Don't get me wrong. It is all not emotional but, I'm afraid, much of what is written here sounds like what a grammar school child that is waiting and waiting and waiting for a beanie baby would write. It could never meet all the needs once it was shipped from Amazon. Was the packing enough for my beanie baby? Should I have waited for another color? What is coming out next?

There is a lot of very worth while information also available here from very knowledgeable shooters but the nut cases and the unstable one are winning out. I have learned a great deal about Canon products and photography in general reading here. That is why I lurked and will lurk.

In closing....if your blood pressure has risen since the introduction and you are hitting refresh every few minutes, take a chill pill, learn basic photography first, read the friggin' manual, do the necessary adjustments to the camera and its settings ( don't be a d0uche!) and finally take some decent shots that you can share for feedback and assistance. Most importantly buy from a retailer that will calmly accept your return. That is a sane option if this camera is ruining your life and, of course, there will always be Nikon.

I find early adopters without the proper risk taking temperament are the root cause of most the problems here. Canon's product has become secondary. Thank god the introduction of the flagship model will cost almost what a car costs. The angst will mainly be virtual.

I continue to be shocked by the thrashing, whining and crying here regarding the real and imagined limitations of the 5D Mark III  You are one of them

If you read Nikon Rumors ( you should it is very informative and professional)  This is CR not Nikon Rumors, if you don’t like it, skip it or go to Nikon

What I find most interesting is the crappy quality of 90% of the photos that these anxious obsessives have posted here to get feedback  Not all CR members are doing this for living. That’s why we have internet – Iooking for information.

I'm talking about crappy composition, worthless lighting, impossible focusing situations, horrible white balance and basically most norms of decent photography violated in the service of complaining, worrying or hand wringing. Much of this was just impulsive childish behavior - pure and simple. When you can't tell the trolls from the faithful things have gotten out of hand.  Again, how long it took you to master all these skills? 15-25yrs??? So, give them sometime to learn and feed them with positive feedbacks – instead your whining.

learn basic photography first, read the friggin' manual, do the necessary adjustments to the camera and its settings ( don't be a d0uche!)  have you look at manual lately????

 

[wickidwombat]

i think this thread has gone on 5 pages longer than it needed to,
whats with all the name calling and abuse. I wish i could lock or delete it
I'm sick of reading the drivel that is getting pumped out lately

 

[V8Beast]

The lesson I learned: Photography, like everything else is about 10% technical skill and 90% people skills. If you can't empathize with people, put yourself into their shoes and have a real interest in them, it usually comes across in your pictures.

I suspect that even if your business is taking beautiful images of incredible cars, you're still dependent on your people skills.

Very true. I don't have the right personality for weddings, portrait, or fashion work, but even shooting cars requires some people skills. People often show up for shoots late, with broke down cars that don't run, and then want to take off early before the job is done. Dealing with difficult situations, and willing your way through a shoot, has nothing to do with photography skills, but if you can't handle the situation you'll likely produce poor images.

 

[nesarajah]

I'm sick of reading the drivel that is getting pumped out lately

agreed. just adding another page with this comment i'm afraid.

 

[Live Refocused]

I am an inexperienced photographer with sufficient resources and passion to own the 5DM3. I am one of the "late registrants" on the forum who has made some regrettable posts pertaining to B&H customer service issues. If I had that do over again, I'd've kept my hyper-emotional opinions and keyboard in check. Looking back, it was embarrassing.

Yep, there is whining. Sometimes, depending on the thread, quite a bit of it. But being as this was my first serious camera purchase, I spent a lot of time over at Nikon Rumors while trying to decide between the 5DM3 and the D800. My own observation is that on the whole, the Canon folks are more friendly, helpful, humble, and respectful than the Nikon folks, judged solely on the tone of the messages on the two forums. That wasn't a deciding factor (what I wanted to do with the camera was), but it did give me a comfort level.

I tend to read political sites a lot, and compared to the drivel encountered on those sites, I'd say that the Canon Rumors forum is incredibly mature. But if the CR folks were looking to make improvements to the quality of the conversation, there is one site in particular who's approach seems to have kept the conversations on-topic and thoughtful. I'll decline sharing the site name so as to keep this thread on topic, but the moderators there simply close registration except for once or twice per year. It appears that only the cream of the crop on that site get to post - that is, folks with a grasp of the language and the ability to contribute in a meaningful way from all sides of the political spectrum. It has worked well and made the forum enjoyable to read.

Am I bummed that I am not part of the chosen few who can post? Sometimes, but usually someone else who can contribute has already said what I would say, and said it better than I could have. Not sure it could work here, but if the intent is to raise the quality of the conversation, sometimes the best way to do that is to limit the number of people talking.

My thanks to those here who have over the years taken the time to share their experience and perspective to others just starting out. I welcome criticism because I want to be worthy of my camera some day, so if someone wants to lob some my way, my stuff is at www.smugmug.com/liverefocused.

It's probably not the camera's fault.

 

[BobSanderson]

This posting by Ansela was one the best and most timely I have read here. It captured the moment very well and, now that the frenzy had calmed down, it still reads well. Cheers!