Triggering E640 via PC terminal + 600EX-RT via ST-E3-RT

[iam2nd]

So I've attempted my due diligence in searching for an answer in the forums but couldn't find it.

Trying to plan ahead... is it possible to trigger an Einstein E640 via my 1D Mark IV's PC terminal (using the E640-supplied 15-foot sync cord) AND multiple 600EX-RTs via an on-camera ST-E3-RT, at the same time?

The thread below came close to answering but it wasn't exactly the same:

Will this work with one of the new Canon radio controllers like the 600EX-RT, or I think the other is the ST-E3-RT?

No, CyberSync won't work with the Canon RT system. No 3rd party radio system does, and I suspect there won't be one for a while, if ever.

However, I have seen some people use a Canon 580EX II flash in TTL mode on camera, and they velcroed the Cyber Commander to their 580 and plugged in to the camera's PC port. The camera would trigger the 580 through the hotshoe and the Alien Bee's/Einsteins from the PC port, and still use the Cyber Commander to remotely control power of the strobes...

Thanks much. Hopefully I can contribute more here some day instead of just asking questions.

 

[RLPhoto]

Yes. I use my 600RT on my hotshoe with a tiny flash bracket holding my cybersync to my PC port to sync the strobes.

 

[iam2nd]

Thanks.

 

[iam2nd]

Two 600EX-RTs and an ST-E3-RT on order! I was broke before, and now I'm more broker than broke. And I still need stands, modifiers, etc... and a 1DX would be nice.

 

[privatebydesign]

Two 600EX-RTs and an ST-E3-RT on order! I was broke before, and now I'm more broker than broke. And I still need stands, modifiers, etc... and a 1DX would be nice.

For use with a 1D MkIV I'd hold off on the ST-E3-RT, the announced but not yet available Yongnuo YN-ST-E3 is said to offer true five group Group Mode on pre 2012 cameras, a vast improvement on the Canon trigger.

 

[iam2nd]

I was reading about those and their "600EX-RT" flashes which all look very cool, but I had to make a choice sooner rather than later.

 

[iam2nd]

Two 600EX-RT flashes and the ST-E3-RT finally arrived. Haven't ordered the Einstein yet as I'm waiting to see what the Black Friday deals look like this year, and for credit card debt to subside.

I absolutely love the new Canon system. The most productive thing I've done so far is using the flash positioned outside on it's stand to [temporarily] blind SQUIRRELS when they come to steal the birdseed. And all from the comfort of my sofa! One push of the Test button on the transmitter and BAM! They really don't understand what's happening.

 

[Loswr]

FWIW, the optical slave trigger on the Einstein works pretty well. I have been meaning to try a PC sync connection to the FlexTT5 to radio trigger the Einstein (via PowerMC2), but never got around to getting a cable. :-[

I can confirm that putting the ST-E3-RT on the top hotshoe of a camera-hotshoe-mounted MiniTT1 or FlexTT5 doesn't work.

I was taking some portraits of my son last night, set up with an ST-E3-RT, three 600EX-RTs and the Einstein. I used a 600EX in a Lastolite 12x48" strip box as key, another 600EX in a Lastolite 24" Ezybox as fill, the Einstein with an 8.5" reflector and 30° honeycomb grid to blow out the white backdrop, and a 3rd bare 600EX to fill in a 'hole' in the background (the zoom to 200mm is like having a snoot!). The Einstein triggered flawlessly (except once, but that was a wetware error) as an optical slave.

I then switched to a black backdrop and used the Einstein with a 15° honeycomb grid as the only light, to leave the background black (memo to self - order 7" reflector with 10° honeycomb grid). The astute of you will have spotted my error - I turned off the ST-E3-RT and Speedlites, but didn't get the PW triggers out, so of course there was no flash to trigger the Einstein...thus, the wetware error. Rather than get out the PWs, I just turned on the ST-E3-RT and the bare 600, dialed down the power, and moved the light stand so the flash was pointed away from the subject...it triggered the Einstein perfectly but no light reached the scene.

I'll still likely get a sync cable and try radio triggering the Einstein that way, just in case I need that at some point. But to the OP, you may want to just get the Einstein and try it as an optical slave first...

 

[privatebydesign]

Nice, an ST-E3-RT and a 600EX-RT has to be the most expensive dumb optical trigger ever, I salute you sir.

 

[InterMurph]

I have 4 600EX-RTs and 3 Einstein E640s. I love the Canon wireless system, and wish that Buff sold a compatible receiver for the E640s.

Methods for mixing Einsteins and 600EX-RTs:

All PocketWizard: A FlexTT5 and AC3 zone controller on the camera, a FlexTT5 for each 600EX-RT, and an MC2 for each Einstein. Expensive, but gives you complete control over output of all lights, in 3 zones, from the camera. As much as I love the Canon radio system, there is nothing easier than the physical dials on the AC3 zone controller.

CyberCommander + Canon: A CyberCommander for the camera, connected by a short (included) PC cord. CyberSync transcevers ($30 each!) for the Einsteins. Then put either a 600EX-RT or the ST-E3-RT on the hot shoe, and use that to control the Canon lights. This complicates things, as you now have two radio controllers, and you have to dial in the Einsteins on one and the Canons on the other.

CyberCommander + PocketWizard:: A nonsensical option; use the CyberCommander (via PC cord) to control the Einsteins, and PocketWizards (via FlexTT5/AC3 in hot shoe) to control the 600EX-RTs. You wouldn't do that, though, sine the Canon lights have their own radios built in.

Canon + optical slave: A 600EX-RT or ST-E3-RT on the camera controlling the Canon lights. The Einsteins are set to optical slave mode. You don't have control over the output of the Einsteins from the camera, and you are at the mercy of optical triggering, which can be a tad frustrating.

CyberCommander + optical slave: A CyberCommander in the hot shoe, controlling the Einstein lights. The Canon lights are set ot optical slave mode. You don't have control over the output of the Canon lights form the camera, and you are at the mercy of optical triggering, which can be a tad frustrating.

I usually go All PocketWizard. It hurts to bypass the Canon wireless system that I so love, but the mechanical dials on the PocketWizard AC3 Zone Controller are so simple and quick that you don't really have to think much. It's much quicker than the Canon menu system.

 

[Loswr]

Nice, an ST-E3-RT and a 600EX-RT has to be the most expensive dumb optical trigger ever, I salute you sir.

Now I feel like a failure - I should have used an on-camera 600 as the master...

 

[iam2nd]

FWIW, the optical slave trigger on the Einstein works pretty well. I have been meaning to try a PC sync connection to the FlexTT5 to radio trigger the Einstein (via PowerMC2), but never got around to getting a cable. :-[

Thanks. My first official need to using all the lighting together is to light a late-model race car with standing posed driver for a company that builds race cars (for each car/driver), and then get a large group shot of all the cars, racers, and employees together (haven't figured out that one yet). I may have to rely on the Einstein being an optical-triggered slave as I don't yet know how far away it will need to be from my camera (ie, PC cord may not reach). If I was in a different financial situation, I would buy the CyberCommander without a second thought.

 

[iam2nd]

...
Methods for mixing Einsteins and 600EX-RTs:
...

A very helpful summary! Going CyberCommander + Canon, and CyberSync Transceiver, makes the most sense to me.

 

[Loswr]

I have 4 600EX-RTs and 3 Einstein E640s. I love the Canon wireless system, and wish that Buff sold a compatible receiver for the E640s.

Methods for mixing Einsteins and 600EX-RTs:

All PocketWizard:

CyberCommander + Canon:

...

CyberCommander + optical slave: A CyberCommander in the hot shoe, controlling the Einstein lights. The Canon lights are set ot optical slave mode. You don't have control over the output of the Canon lights form the camera, and you are at the mercy of optical triggering, which can be a tad frustrating.

Couple of questions:

1) You list several options, but missing is 'PocketWizard and Canon' - triggering the Einstein(s) with MC2's from a FlexTT5 connected to the camera's PC port. That's one I could do with only the purchase of a cable, do you not list it because it isn't possible (i.e., a PC/miniphone input to the FlexTT5 won't cause it to fire as a 'dumb' transmitter?

2) What is this 'Canon lights are set ot optical slave mode' to which you refer? I don't believe Canon Speedlites can be set as optical slaves (without additional hardware for optical triggering, such as the Sonia trigger). Can you explain?

Thanks!

 

[InterMurph]

[1) You list several options, but missing is 'PocketWizard and Canon' - triggering the Einstein(s) with MC2's from a FlexTT5 connected to the camera's PC port. That's one I could do with only the purchase of a cable, do you not list it because it isn't possible (i.e., a PC/miniphone input to the FlexTT5 won't cause it to fire as a 'dumb' transmitter?

2) What is this 'Canon lights are set ot optical slave mode' to which you refer? I don't believe Canon Speedlites can be set as optical slaves (without additional hardware for optical triggering, such as the Sonia trigger). Can you explain?

Thanks!

1) I think you are describing an all-PocketWizard system, identical to my first option but for one difference: in mine, the FLexTT5 is connected to the camera via the hot show, and in yours, it is connected via a PC cord. I think this will work fine.

2) I think I misspoke, as you suggest. Canon speedlites do have an "optical slave" mode, but it is not as I described. It is more accurately called "wireless optical slave" mode, as described by Syl Arena at http://pixsylated.com/blog/canon-speedlite-slave-set-up-600ex-rt-radio-slave/.

 

[Loswr]

[1) You list several options, but missing is 'PocketWizard and Canon' - triggering the Einstein(s) with MC2's from a FlexTT5 connected to the camera's PC port. That's one I could do with only the purchase of a cable, do you not list it because it isn't possible (i.e., a PC/miniphone input to the FlexTT5 won't cause it to fire as a 'dumb' transmitter?

2) What is this 'Canon lights are set ot optical slave mode' to which you refer? I don't believe Canon Speedlites can be set as optical slaves (without additional hardware for optical triggering, such as the Sonia trigger). Can you explain?

Thanks!

1) I think you are describing an all-PocketWizard system, identical to my first option but for one difference: in mine, the FLexTT5 is connected to the camera via the hot show, and in yours, it is connected via a PC cord. I think this will work fine.

2) I think I misspoke, as you suggest. Canon speedlites do have an "optical slave" mode, but it is not as I described. It is more accurately called "wireless optical slave" mode, as described by Syl Arena at http://pixsylated.com/blog/canon-speedlite-slave-set-up-600ex-rt-radio-slave/.

1) I am talking about having the ST-E3-RT in the camera's hot shoe, controlling the off-camera 600EX-RT flashes, and at the same time the FlexTT5 via the PC port on the same camera controlling the Einstein/MC2. So, exactly like your CyberCommander + Canon scenario, except replace CyberCommander triggering for the Einstein(s) with PocketWizard triggering for the Einstein(s). Any idea if that would work?

2) Correct - Canon flashes cannot be triggered as 'dumb' optical slaves. The 'wireless optical slave' mode Syl describes is the typical pre -RT optical wireless, where a series of coded preflashes from an on-camera master (580EX, ST-E2, 90EX, etc.) triggers the slave flashes. The only way to have a flash from a 3rd party strobe, e.g. a monolight, trigger a Canon flash is with hardware like the Sonia optical trigger.

Thanks again!

 

[InterMurph]

1) I am talking about having the ST-E3-RT in the camera's hot shoe, controlling the off-camera 600EX-RT flashes, and at the same time the FlexTT5 via the PC port on the same camera controlling the Einstein/MC2. So, exactly like your CyberCommander + Canon scenario, except replace CyberCommander triggering for the Einstein(s) with PocketWizard triggering for the Einstein(s). Any idea if that would work?

I just tried it, and I couldn't get it to work.

I put the ST-E3-RT in the hot shoe, and connected the FlexTT5/AC3 combo via the cable I got with my Einsteins. The "Test" button on the FlexTT5 fires the Einstein, but the Einstein doesn't fire when I take a photo. I tried connecting the cable to the P1 and then the P2 ports on the FlexTT5, but it doesn't work.

The FlexTT5 quick user's guide doesn't even mention the P2 port, the online Wiki manual is useless for searching for such things, and I've been waiting quite a while for the "generate a PDF" link to produce something.

I'll investigate more later this evening.

 

[Loswr]

1) I am talking about having the ST-E3-RT in the camera's hot shoe, controlling the off-camera 600EX-RT flashes, and at the same time the FlexTT5 via the PC port on the same camera controlling the Einstein/MC2. So, exactly like your CyberCommander + Canon scenario, except replace CyberCommander triggering for the Einstein(s) with PocketWizard triggering for the Einstein(s). Any idea if that would work?

I just tried it, and I couldn't get it to work.

I put the ST-E3-RT in the hot shoe, and connected the FlexTT5/AC3 combo via the cable I got with my Einsteins. The "Test" button on the FlexTT5 fires the Einstein, but the Einstein doesn't fire when I take a photo. I tried connecting the cable to the P1 and then the P2 ports on the FlexTT5, but it doesn't work.

The FlexTT5 quick user's guide doesn't even mention the P2 port, the online Wiki manual is useless for searching for such things, and I've been waiting quite a while for the "generate a PDF" link to produce something.

I'll investigate more later this evening.

Thanks much for testing!

IIRC, for P1 and P2 ports on the FlexTT5, one is to trigger a flash and the other is to trigger a camera (different voltages, maybe?). I was hoping one would also work as an input, guess not.

I suppose one other option (short of buying a 3rd FlexTT5 for my 3rd 600EX-RT) would be a PC to hotshoe cable (like this one), and connect the MiniTT1 to that via its bottom hotshoe.

 

[InterMurph]

It looks like the FlexTT5 just isn't designed to do that. Sorry!