Two More 5D Cameras Coming? [CR1]

[LetTheRightLensIn]

I mentioned 4k cry babies because everybody wants the latest hottest gear or hardware yet 9/10 people can't see the difference in 1080p-4K video all they notice is a price difference.

The difference is trivial to spot! If you can't see then you are maybe far-sighted? Sit 30' away from your screens?

Do any of u who want 4k have the TV/lcd

Personally, yes and more and more do in general. Plus, even if you don;t know, everything you capture now will look much better when you do get one in the future. Plus it can be used to produce super-duper quality 1080p. Be used to help stabilize 1080p fruther in post. Be used for panning and re-cropping post. A true 2x TC effect for distant wildlife footage when put back to 1080p. etc.

or etc or the hard drive space too store/play these massive files??

They are hardly that large and they are actually very small compared the actually giant files that those using ML RAW have to deal with.

I'm aware YouTube now supports 4k but whey are the legit uses and advantages of it??

Looks far better??? Instead of looking like something captured it starts getting more that you are really looking at something look to it. It's particular nice for nature and landscape videography.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Bodies come and go, and my experience shooting video with the Black Magic Cinema camera is that they're better on paper than shooting in real life. Leave it to Canon to get stuff right IRL.

Like not even give basics like zebras or manual focusing aids during live shooting etc .etc. not even on a 12k 1DC? that is getting it right and providing a superior shooting experience? (Hopefully this rumor is hinting that 5D4c will get it right this time though.)

Also, the looks of these new BM beasts make it seem like they have polished up the shooting experience tons (yeah it remains to be seen but it sure looks promising).

 

[joejohnbear]

I mentioned 4k cry babies because everybody wants the latest hottest gear or hardware yet 9/10 people can't see the difference in 1080p-4K video all they notice is a price difference.

The difference is trivial to spot! If you can't see then you are maybe far-sighted? Sit 30' away from your screens?

Do any of u who want 4k have the TV/lcd

Personally, yes and more and more do in general. Plus, even if you don;t know, everything you capture now will look much better when you do get one in the future. Plus it can be used to produce super-duper quality 1080p. Be used to help stabilize 1080p fruther in post. Be used for panning and re-cropping post. A true 2x TC effect for distant wildlife footage when put back to 1080p. etc.

or etc or the hard drive space too store/play these massive files??

They are hardly that large and they are actually very small compared the actually giant files that those using ML RAW have to deal with.

I'm aware YouTube now supports 4k but whey are the legit uses and advantages of it??

Looks far better??? Instead of looking like something captured it starts getting more that you are really looking at something look to it. It's particular nice for nature and landscape videography.

I actually like 4k video, and I do like 2k downscaled or clean video from the C100/C300 cameras instead of from Canon DSLR. However, 4k video doesn't play very smoothly on my Intel Iris 5100 over Youtube on state of the art corporate internet, so I agree with others that it not everyone can see it. I do agree with you that future proofing is great like shooting 70mm film in the 60's and restoring it in 2015. However, I don't see a problem with it being out of reach of consumer cameras in the $500 dollar range. I think it'll get there when it gets there in the 5DIV, and if not by then, there are tons of options from the A6000 and C100 with reduced rolling shutter.

I don't however for a second think that amateur photographers who are just dicking around with video trying to capture their kids with their DSLR's know what they're getting themselves into. DSLR's for video were a pleasant mistake, and rolling shutter will always be a problem. Better that people get dedicated camcorders instead of fussing around with XLR adapters and magic lantern. The ones who can compromise understand reality, the ones who complain do so without fully understanding that professionals live within the constraints of technology. I love the A6000 and A7S image quality, hate their ergonomics and would rather go with a FS700 or C100 or C300 any day of the week. If you can't afford it, consider a different hobby or going with a cheaper or alternative camera and that you will need to spend more dollars to bring a still photo DSLR or ILC up to feature parity with a dedicated video camera (GH4, LX100, A6000, A7S etc require external video recorders, audio recorders, variable ND filters or ND filter sets, external monitors, etc etc. In addition, video has separate expenses, like lavalier mics, fluid monopods, fluid heads, leveling tripods, cranes, stabilizers, sliders, scrims, continuous lights, so I don't get the sudden confusion from consumers thinking that it's unfair that Canon separated their DSLR and cinema lineups. At $5000 for the original C100, yes, complain, but $3000 for the reduced price, if you're actually serious about video and want to keep your lenses, get the C100. If your budget is low, get the GH4 or the A6000 and and make do with purchasing additional audio recorders and syncing sound.

 

[joejohnbear]

Bodies come and go, and my experience shooting video with the Black Magic Cinema camera is that they're better on paper than shooting in real life. Leave it to Canon to get stuff right IRL.

Like not even give basics like zebras or manual focusing aids during live shooting etc .etc. not even on a 12k 1DC? that is getting it right and providing a superior shooting experience? (Hopefully this rumor is hinting that 5D4c will get it right this time though.)

Also, the looks of these new BM beasts make it seem like they have polished up the shooting experience tons (yeah it remains to be seen but it sure looks promising).

Yes, I agree, I do want Zebras and focusing peaking. I do understand that I would get a C100 instead of a 5DIII anyways for the reduced rolling shutter if I was shooting video professionally. I do hope that Canon boosts the video features in the 5DIV. If they charge more for it, it would be fair as long as they put those basics. The 1DC is now 8k, fyi. I'd rather get the 1DX and C100 for the same price separately if I had to buy now, fyi. $5200+$3000 = a steal.

I hope so. The Black Magic Cinema had a disgusting Twisted Neumatic (TN) display that was inaccurate as hell and focus peaking just simply didn't work on eyes and faces with f/1.4-f/2 lenses for some reason. Ergonomics were off-the-rockers bad. It didn't even have a histogram! How can you have a camera with a bad screen and not have a histogram/fancy video equivalent?!

 

[K-amps]

Uh oh, btw this so beats the crap out of C300mk2 at third the price.

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicursamini

I agree, this is a game changer.

Yeah. And the $3000 version makes the XC10 really look feeble too.

If this DCWatch stuff is true, one hopes the BM Ursa stuff scares Canon into going all out on the 5D4c video quality and features (if so for the stills also shooter the 5D4c might be more attractive to many, of course the more pure video shooter would still be better off with the BM, most likely, but for those who do both the 5D4c might be a lot more cost effective).

Did you guys see the heatsink on the BMUrsa? Its massive... its not going to fit in a 5D body... so no wide DR video... even if the used the same sensor.... it would melt. Maybe stills might be ok at 15 stops but they will need to reduce fps for wide DR mode. Do it maeda Do it!

 

[K-amps]

If we're 5D4 wishlist-ing, I'll take the spot-metering-at-any-AF point like the 1D series, and the 7D2 in-viewfinder level would be great. And bring back manual focusing screens, perhaps? :

- A

My kids Canon point and shoot SX50 HS has AE linked to AF point, its shameful that the 5d3 does not...

 

[joejohnbear]

If we're 5D4 wishlist-ing, I'll take the spot-metering-at-any-AF point like the 1D series, and the 7D2 in-viewfinder level would be great. And bring back manual focusing screens, perhaps? :

- A

My kids Canon point and shoot SX50 HS has AE linked to AF point, its shameful that the 5d3 does not...

My D700 had AE linked to AF point as well. I better switch back to Nikon because...haha, who am I kidding? I'm sticking with Canon because of the lenses. 5D4 will hopefully take care of it. If not, 1DX is $5200! Cheaaap.

 

[ahsanford]

As a long time Canon user...about 14 years, without a substantial investment other than a couple lenses and a flash who is ready to purchase a new camera, Canon is making it very difficult not to go with another brand. I am only a hobbyist, but I know my way around a camera pretty well. I want a camera with a 50d type body, not a toy made out of plastic that I can barely fit in my hand. The 7d would be an option but think I would like to go full frame as I don't need the speed (6-7 fps is plenty) and would like to be able to do some night sky photography. Video and 4k mean nothing to me. Image quality, dynamic range and better high ISO performance does.The 6d is just too stripped down for me and there seems to be no replacement in sight. And the 5d is priced out of my range. I love the feel and layout of the 7d type bodies. Rumors suggest a price hike on all full frame Canons down the road which makes me feel like Canon has turned it's back on the skilled photographer who does not get paid for it. Very much would like to stay with Canon, but In my opinion they have nothing to compete with the d610 or d750 in terms of features or price. I have actually put off buying with the hope that Canon would come out with a d610 killer but am tired of waiting for something that seems will never come. Not a fanboy, just feel a bit let down by recent offerings.

Yep. You're out of luck. It's 'hope the 5D3 price plummets after the 5Ds rigs come out', or wait for a 6D2.

That Nikon D750 is loved -- not liked -- by the Nikon faithful. It's basically a Frankenstein of the D610 and D810, grabbing some low and some high level features -- a "5.5"D if you will. Given Canon's absurd pricing (5D3 is nearly 2x the price of the 6D), one could argue that Canon has a price point / feature set gap that needs to be addressed more than the (seemingly in the cards) specialization split to video/low light vs. all-around vs. high MP that we keep hearing about.

- A

 

[funkboy]

So, does 5Dc have an FF sensor or Super-35 size?

If it's FF, I'd love to see an 18MP super-sensor in the 6D II <grin>

 

[joejohnbear]

As a long time Canon user...about 14 years, without a substantial investment other than a couple lenses and a flash who is ready to purchase a new camera, Canon is making it very difficult not to go with another brand. I am only a hobbyist, but I know my way around a camera pretty well. I want a camera with a 50d type body, not a toy made out of plastic that I can barely fit in my hand. The 7d would be an option but think I would like to go full frame as I don't need the speed (6-7 fps is plenty) and would like to be able to do some night sky photography. Video and 4k mean nothing to me. Image quality, dynamic range and better high ISO performance does.The 6d is just too stripped down for me and there seems to be no replacement in sight. And the 5d is priced out of my range. I love the feel and layout of the 7d type bodies. Rumors suggest a price hike on all full frame Canons down the road which makes me feel like Canon has turned it's back on the skilled photographer who does not get paid for it. Very much would like to stay with Canon, but In my opinion they have nothing to compete with the d610 or d750 in terms of features or price. I have actually put off buying with the hope that Canon would come out with a d610 killer but am tired of waiting for something that seems will never come. Not a fanboy, just feel a bit let down by recent offerings.

Yep. You're out of luck. It's 'hope the 5D3 price plummets after the 5Ds rigs come out', or wait for a 6D2.

That Nikon D750 is loved -- not liked -- by the Nikon faithful. It's basically a Frankenstein of the D610 and D810, grabbing some low and some high level features -- a "5.5"D if you will. Given Canon's absurd pricing (5D3 is nearly 2x the price of the 6D), one could argue that Canon has a price point / feature set gap that needs to be addressed more than the (seemingly in the cards) specialization split to video/low light vs. all-around vs. high MP that we keep hearing about.

- A

5D3 is $2500. D750 was $2300 until just a few days ago (price slashed by $300). Before then, there wasn't that much of a difference, and that's why I didn't pick one up as a backup body (and I'd have to buy more lenses on top of that).

 

[Jose]

I've always been a canon user, starting with film and entering digital with a 20d, then a 5D and currently a 5DIII. I was hoping for a 5DIV with 2-3 more DR and a pixel count as close as posible to the 36mpx that both nikon and sony offer. I want a camera that will allow me to lift shadows of photos taken in contrasty conditions without showing banding and awful noise If that camera would be coming I would keep the 5D III as a backup and add to my lenses lineup a 17TS, 16-35 f4, 27-70 2.8II and a 100-400 IS II to replace the 16-35 2.8, 24-700 2.8 and the 70-200 2.8, keeping only the 24TS.
It appears that is not going to happen it seems that the dynamic range improvement is going to be left for the video version. If they have the technology I don't understand why we have to wait for the 5DV and by then I wonder what sony sensors will be producing.
Now I'm debating with path to go nikon or sony. Are there lenses comparable the canon I wanted to buy in either brand? Is there an adaptor to use my 24ts with a nikon body? If I go nikon I'll be getting a D810 and a D750 as Backup.

 

[ahsanford]

5D3 is $2500. D750 was $2300 until just a few days ago (price slashed by $300). Before then, there wasn't that much of a difference, and that's why I didn't pick one up as a backup body (and I'd have to buy more lenses on top of that).

I never compare the D750 to the 5D3. Apples and oranges in their respective FF tiers.

But consider the value proposition of a D750 over a D610. Previously (Sep 2014), there was a chasm between the D610 at $1900 and the D810 at $3000. People who wanted just one killer better something (burst, buffer, AF, etc.) were staring at a "Sure, you can get that... for another $1,100" proposition. It's not unlike 6D vs. 5D3 when the 6D was first offered. The 6D is a fine camera, but some niceties were reserved for a 5D3 rig that was some $1400 more expensive.

What did Nikon do? They made the following sales pitch to its customers: "Hey gang, want 2/3 of what's in the D810 for only $400 more than the D610? Sure you do. C'mere."

I don't know the exact recipe of of the low and the high features that made the D750, but if memory serves, they reserved the top end MP count and 1/8000 shutter for the D810, but the D750 got a ton of the top end features, including the AF system and only 0.5 fps slower max burst. That's a strong value proposition, and people have taken them up on it.

So joejohnbear, I'm not advocating the D750 is a better camera than the 5D3 -- that depends on what you shoot. But I am arguing that Canon might want a rethink on splitting their market into [low MP / great low light] + [all-around solid] + [high MP / poor low light]. Perhaps it should be [good] + [better] + [best].

- A

 

[SlydeR]

I know which one I want...but the wait is killing me

 

[privatebydesign]

So, does 5Dc have an FF sensor or Super-35 size?

If it's FF, I'd love to see an 18MP super-sensor in the 6D II <grin>

The Super 35 size is much smaller the a ff sensor at 24.89 mm × 18.66 mm, around half the size. Why would you want that in a 6D MkII?

 

[Tinky]

And bring back manual focusing screens, perhaps? :

- A

I think there is a fair chance this will happen. The 7D didn't have one, apparently due to the transmissive lcd, yet the 1Dx has the same thing and does. Likewise with the 5DIII. Maybe it's cheaper to implement now, but the 7DII has both the interchangeable screen and transmissive lcd, so I would guess the 5DIV will as well. I cannot for the life of me see why a 7DII would have an interchangeable screen, given that cameras target, and the 5DIV not.

http://www.katzeyeoptics.com are gearing back up for a relaunch now that manufacturing supply has been sorted.

If anybody can do it (and do it better than Canon) they can.

 

[gregory4000]

Black Magic just introduced the URSA Mini 4.6K with 15 stops of dynamic range.
This is shooting with a 12 mp sensor. If Canon is introducing a 5DC within the year, it would make sense that it would carry a few features that video shooters are hungry for. Especially, considering that were going to have to settle with this model for an additional 4 to 5 years.

 

[privatebydesign]

Black Magic just introduced the URSA Mini 4.6K with 15 stops of dynamic range.
This is shooting with a 12 mp sensor. If Canon is introducing a 5DC within the year, it would make sense that it would carry a few features that video shooters are hungry for. Especially, considering that were going to have to settle with this model for an additional 4 to 5 years.

At $6,500 for the 4.6K version with viewfinder. Lets see how many people are interested in a 5DC at >$6,000.

 

[Ozarker]

It is going to be so nice to just buy a 5D mkIII near the end of summer. Bargain price and awesome stills capability. I'll be happy. Then I can just focus on glass... which is more important to me. While it is going to be fun watching what new bodies Canon creates over the next 5 years... I will be at peace. I hope. *slight twitching ensues*

 

[roccosaya]

OMG, I'm getting soooo sick of Canon. Are you kidding me? Canon is too busy trying to protect their high end cinema cameras, and aren't innovating nearly enough. They really expect people to buy 3 or 4 different camera models now? I am heavily invested in Canon glass, but if this is even remotely true, It's a very sad day. On top of it all, the 5DS is rumored to have poor dynamic range (equivalent to 5d mark iii) ...

Meanwhile, I have a Sony A7R that's 36 megapixels, and the IQ destroys 5d mark iii. Granted, I cannot use the A7R for action shots and overall the A7R is a terrible "operating camera" but it puts out remarkable IQ.

Canon is going to start loosing droves and droves of people. Like I said, they are too busy protecting their high end cinema cameras, and each year give us everything BUT better image quality.

GRRRRR

 

[roccosaya]

On that note, can I ask you a question? I have the metabones IV adapter for Sony A7R. It always randomly goes to F0, and I can't shoot unless I turn the adapter from the body of the camera and back on (as if I was unmounting it) ... I have been in contact with Metabones, and they say they are working on a firmware update to fix the problem, but it really has me very angry. It's been seven months, and this issue has not been solved. Do you have this problem?

Thanks.

too please all these 4k video cry babies

I guess I'm one of those crybabies.

Frankly, the "I don't do video, therefore nobody should care, and therefore Canon shouldn't care" crowd has won the day. Canon hasn't advanced the quality of its DSLR video since the 5D2 in 2008. Canon has effectively abandoned the video users; you have won.

But I do both stills and video. Until recently, I used a pair of 5D Mark IIIs for both. I recently bought a pair of Sony A7s cameras for video, and I couldn't be happier. The image quality is miles ahead of the 5D3; the Sonys are much sharper, and can effectively see in the dark. The results are stunning.

The attached image is a frame from a video I took of a poorly-lit school play. I had the A7s on auto-ISO (another miracle), so I don't know exactly what the ISO setting was. But when I took stills of another performance, I was at ISO 5000 to 8000.

It would be great if the 5D4 had comparable video quality. That would allow me to use a single camera for stills & video, and it would allow me to ditch the Metabones adapters for my Canon lenses. I really hope for a 5D variant that can compete with the A7s.

But if you don't care about video, please just ignore the video-focused cameras that may or may not come. Canon is taking care of you, I promise.