Updated EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II on the Horizon? [CR1]

[Talys]

I don't need *faster AF*. I want *more intelligent AF"*.
* Face/Eye Tracking
* Eye Control AF v2.0
* AF field markings in VF/on LCD *not smaller* than actual AF fields
* reliable AI AUTO tracking of moving subjects
* no back/front-focus / no need for AFMA

mirrorless is my ticket to get there. Soon. Very soon.

In this, we differ. I don't want more intelligent AF at all - I just want it to be faster. AFMA is a minor hassle, but it's certainly worth the effort (on DSLRs, I mean).

For what you want, it's already there. Just buy a Sony. It has decent eye focus, face recognition, and subject tracking, and most importantly, you can have it today.

 

[Kit.]

exactly the opposite. Even the most expensive EF L glass will not match future "native" FF mirrorless lenses AF performance.

Is there any physical basis for your belief? Or is it just wishful thinking?

I don't need *faster AF*. I want *more intelligent AF"*.
* Face/Eye Tracking
* Eye Control AF v2.0
* AF field markings in VF/on LCD *not smaller* than actual AF fields
* reliable AI AUTO tracking of moving subjects
* no back/front-focus / no need for AFMA

mirrorless is my ticket to get there. Soon. Very soon.

Nah. Then you will come here and whine that Canon autofocus is not focusing on the eyes of the person you want it to focus.

Besides, the AI chip you want to decide which faces you want to see in focus on your mirrorless camera can also improve its autofocus accuracy, decreasing your need in slower-focusing lenses.

 

[Antono Refa]

I don't need *faster AF*. I want *more intelligent AF"*.
* Face/Eye Tracking
* Eye Control AF v2.0
* AF field markings in VF/on LCD *not smaller* than actual AF fields
* reliable AI AUTO tracking of moving subjects
* no back/front-focus / no need for AFMA

mirrorless is my ticket to get there. Soon. Very soon.

Nah. Then you will come here and whine that Canon autofocus is not focusing on the eyes of the person you want it to focus.

Could be resolved with Eye Control AF - look at the right face through an AF point that covers it to redirect face/eye tracking to the right place.

[Yes, it would fail if the face is partially covered, e.g. by a branch, or is too far from the center of the frame, but then again - nothing's perfect.]

 

[Kit.]

Could be resolved with Eye Control AF - look at the right face through an AF point that covers it to redirect face/eye tracking to the right place.

That's the point: stupid Canon cannot decide when the user is looking at the "correct" face and when the user is just distracted. The user comes to the forum and blames Canon for not using Sony's algorithm of prioritizing user's family faces in Canon's sports shooting bodies.

 

[BeenThere]

Could be resolved with Eye Control AF - look at the right face through an AF point that covers it to redirect face/eye tracking to the right place.

That's the point: stupid Canon cannot decide when the user is looking at the "correct" face and when the user is just distracted. The user comes to the forum and blames Canon for not using Sony's algorithm of prioritizing user's family faces in Canon's sports shooting bodies.

A built in Bluetooth brainwave mapper will resolve these issues. Another first for Canon.

 

[Antono Refa]

Could be resolved with Eye Control AF - look at the right face through an AF point that covers it to redirect face/eye tracking to the right place.

That's the point: stupid Canon cannot decide when the user is looking at the "correct" face and when the user is just distracted. The user comes to the forum and blames Canon for not using Sony's algorithm of prioritizing user's family faces in Canon's sports shooting bodies.

Because photographers today are often distracted while prepping to press the shutter release? Yes, that's a real problem.

 

[fullstop]

Canapologists last stand: trying to ridicule (and/or personal attacks) when they run out of arguments.

Canon not having introduced Eye Control AF in an improved 2018 AI version is ... "beyond stupid".

Rather than mucking around and wasting resources on micro-iterations and new paint jobs for Mk. III lenses it would create a massive unique competitive advantage for Canon EOS cameras equipped with it. But ... it may not be to the liking of all users? No problem, just put an "activate/deactivate" option into menu.

I am sure that our dear Canapologists will find at least 101 reasons why it is "in the best interest of both Canon and their customers to NOT implement it. Strongest circular argument expected is something like: "It is only you who wants this. Canon does not care about you. They know everything better. So, if they have not implemented it, that means per definition, that it is the right decision!" ;D ;D ;D

 

[Kit.]

Because photographers today are often distracted while prepping to press the shutter release?

Photographers will be distracted by eye control picking wrong subjects when photographers check the background for the lack of distractions. But photographers can just turn it off (or not turn it on at all), use a pre-selected focus point and recompose.

Canapologists last stand: trying to ridicule (and/or personal attacks) when they run out of arguments.

If you are about me, then:
1. I'm not "canapologist", I'm an "apologist" of physics and common sense.
2. It's you who could not back up your wishful thinking with any arguments. No arguments are needed (or possible) to refute arguments that don't exist.

Canon not having introduced Eye Control AF in an improved 2018 AI version is ... "beyond stupid".

Have you actually tried to use eye control focus for a prolonged time?

 

[fullstop]

I have a Canon EOS 30 (Elan 7E) with Eye Control. Just love it. Works like a charm, even though I am wearing glasses. And this is a comparatively "primitive 20th century implementation".

Don't see why Canon could and can not bring a significantly improved, more intelligent version in their digital cameras. Killer feature. The most intuitive way to control what point in the frame focus should be put on. No fumbling around with nipple controllers. No smudging about on touch screens. Everything right where it belongs: in the viewfinder, before my eye. 8)

 

[Talys]

Because photographers today are often distracted while prepping to press the shutter release?

Photographers will be distracted by eye control picking wrong subjects when photographers check the background for the lack of distractions. But photographers can just turn it off (or not turn it on at all), use a pre-selected focus point and recompose.

... what do photographers "today" get distracted by as they press the shutter release, as opposed to photographers of "yesteryear"?

Their iPhones?

Seriously, if a camera distracts you from taking a picture while you are pressing the shutter button, surely, this must be the mark of a poor ergonomic design. I mean, that's the whole freaking point of a camera.

Canapologists last stand: trying to ridicule (and/or personal attacks) when they run out of arguments.

Nobody is ridiculing your positions because they've "run out of arguments". They ridicule your arguments because those arguments often ignore observable facts and always ignore the entire market that has different needs as you.

 

[Kit.]

I have a Canon EOS 30 (Elan 7E) with Eye Control. Just love it. Works like a charm, even though I am wearing glasses. And this is a comparatively "primitive 20th century implementation".

I had Elan 2E (or technically "have" - it is still lying somewhere on the shelves). If you were just looking on where you wanted it to focus, eye control would eventually work. If you were checking your framing in the viewfinder, it could jump to the focus point you didn't need. It was much faster and simpler just to use the central AF point and then to recompose.

Don't see why Canon could and can not bring a significantly improved, more intelligent version in their digital cameras.

"Low customer demand".

That was the official Canon position on ECF since at least 2006, and it's unlikely that it has changed by now.

 

[slclick]

Sp, rumor has it there is a new 24-70 on the horizon, anyone want to chat about it? /o

 

[Kit.]

Sp, rumor has it there is a new 24-70 on the horizon, anyone want to chat about it? /s

As Canon moves its most popular lenses to fully automated assembly lines, it's highly likely that it will require some changes in the 24-70 design. The lens will likely get new lens coating as well.

 

[fullstop]

Don't see why Canon could and can not bring a significantly improved, more intelligent version in their digital cameras.

"Low customer demand".

That was the official Canon position on ECF since at least 2006, and it's unlikely that it has changed by now.

would you have link/s to such statement/s by Canon/officials? i have not seen any mentioning of ECF. interestingly, no journalists/bloggers/interviewers seem to be asking canon execs about it and insist on a meaningful answer. or they are "not allowed" to. but that thought of course falls under conspiracy theory to any Canapologist.

 

[Kit.]

would you have link/s to such statement/s by Canon/officials? i have not seen any mentioning of ECF. interestingly,

This one was probably the most recent:
http://digitaljournalist.org/issue0912/tech-tips.html

Anyway, all the critical patents on it would have already expired by now, so your conspiration theory needs to include all other camera manufacturers as well.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Don't see why Canon could and can not bring a significantly improved, more intelligent version in their digital cameras.

"Low customer demand".

That was the official Canon position on ECF since at least 2006, and it's unlikely that it has changed by now.

would you have link/s to such statement/s by Canon/officials? i have not seen any mentioning of ECF. interestingly, no journalists/bloggers/interviewers seem to be asking canon execs about it and insist on a meaningful answer. or they are "not allowed" to. but that thought of course falls under conspiracy theory to any Canapologist.

You can Canowhine about ECF until you're blue in the face, for all the good it'll do. No one else is asking because, unlike you, they understand reality. Here's something for you to put in your conspiracy theory pipe and smoke...

[quote author=Chuck Westfall]
I have stated numerous times on the Web and at least twice in Tech Tips that it is obvious by now that the omission of ECF in EOS Digital SLRs is a marketing decision, not a technical issue. We get user requests for ECF from time to time, but to be blunt, customer demand so far has been insufficient to justify adding this feature. I'll never say never, but don't hold your breath on this one.
[/quote]

As usual, you have no clue about the needs/wants of the market in general, but yet you continually ASSume that your personal wants are representative of the market as a whole. Typical Canowhiner behavior.

 

[fullstop]

thx for the link/quotes. Had not seen Chuck's response on the matter.

I know it won't surprise you, but I don't believe "lack of demand" was the true reason for "no more ECF in ANY digital Canon EOS".

And if all relevant patents have expired, here's hoping Sony (or Nikon) will pick it up then in (some of) their future mirrorless FF cameras.

 

[neuroanatomist]

I know it won't surprise you, but I don't believe "lack of demand" was the true reason for "no more ECF in ANY digital Canon EOS".

Of course you don't. Chuck was just a big liar, and you know more about Canon's internal decision-making than Canon themselves.

: : :

 

[Ozarker]

thx for the link/quotes. Had not seen Chuck's response on the matter.

I know it won't surprise you, but I don't believe "lack of demand" was the true reason for "no more ECF in ANY digital Canon EOS".

What is the "real reason" then?

I'm wondering aloud what Alex Jones would have to say about this.

 

[fullstop]

Read what Chuck said.
btw.: he was as kind, nice and honest a person as there is. Of course professionally he served as marketing representative for Canon and in that capacity he could not always tell "the whole truth". But he definitely did not lie.

Reasons:
1) "low demand": if not so many bought ECF enabled Elan 7E vs. non-enabled Elan 7 the reason may simply have been: "price differential too high", not lack of demand for the feature per se
2) "people did not use it" = implementation was not good enough back then
3) "complexity high + memory-intensive" = cost reasons (for Canon)
4) and Elan 7NE was introduced in April 2014. EOS 10D was already on the market, too more forward-thinking enthusiasts it was clear, that digital SLRs had arrived. Not much interest left to buy film SLRs.
https://global.canon/en/c-museum/product/film245.html

are some of my thoughts on the matter. pure "conjecture" of course. ;D


http://digitaljournalist.org/issue0912/tech-tips.html

Q: How likely is it that Canon would respond if lots of EOS-1D(s), 7D & 5D users really supported the re-introduction of Eye Controlled Focus? Do you know the story behind its demise?

A: Eye Controlled Focus in future Canon products cannot be ruled out, but there is no evidence to support the notion that it will reappear anytime soon. In the meantime, Canon will continue to study the market and gauge the interests of its customers in all sorts of camera features including ECF.

Similarly, I can't provide details on why the feature was discontinued after the EOS Elan 7NE. But I can tell you that it was more advanced in that camera than any of its predecessors. By the time the Elan 7NE came around, ECF supported vertical as well as horizontal camera orientations; it was much faster than before, and it had the "self-teaching" function that allowed as many as 20 individual calibrations per user for horizontal and vertical orientations according to variations in light levels, for up to three users.

From that description, it's fair to say that the implementation of ECF had become rather complex and memory-intensive, and Canon had received reports indicating that many customers were not using it for various reasons such as:
Their eyes did not move normally so the feature didn't work for them;
Their eyeglass lenses were too thick or they habitually wore sunglasses, so the camera couldn't detect their eye movement;
They didn't know it was necessary to recalibrate the system for each and every light level and/or camera orientation, so they couldn't understand why the system was only working every once in a while for them.
Finally, sales figures indicated that the majority of customers weren't willing to pay for ECF if they could buy the same camera, as in Elan 7N, without ECF for less. Considering all the obstacles, it's not too surprising to me that Canon eventually decided to drop the feature. But again, if you think ECF is worthwhile, then by all means make your wishes known. I am happy to pass them along, and you can also contact Canon's Customer Support Centers (e-Mail: [email protected]) to let them know as well.