Vignetting test with new EF 16-35 F/4L IS and Lee Filter Holder

[ahsanford]

I am by no means an expert. I have used other NDs more than the Big Stopper, but the principles are pretty much the same. I concur with you and have only a few additional thoughts.

I use M mode almost all the time (except, for example, from a moving train), because that is what I am getting used to (makes much more sense to me than exposure compensation, for example). I suppose Av would also work, but that seems to me to be an extra step, once the aperture is set in M anyway. Concur on RAW (if using LR, I don't see the need to shoot anything else). I use back button focus. Then, if I remember not to push the back button after focusing, however I have focused (that is, using either camera mode or tweaking with the focus ring in Live View), I am set with focus and don't need to switch back and forth to manual focus.

I do use 100 ISO unless I am using other NDs than the Big Stopper, for example 2 stops plus 3 stops, and need another stop slower. Then I use 50 ISO. I haven't thought of or tried your idea of pushing ISO and adjusting exposure time.

I tend to use an app to check depth of field because my eyesight isn't great. I do use live view and 10X magnification when possible (i.e., when there isn't a glare problem I can't overcome).

I don't follow you on the shutter speed being 1024 times whatever the camera said without the Big Stopper (at set ISO and aperture). I find either the Big Stopper card or a phone app. will give the answer.

I'm not sure what you mean by inputting the ISO and aperture. Aren't those already in the camera? Don't you just adjust the shutter speed by the 10 stops (or so, depending on your Big Stopper)?

I've been just counting out the seconds when I need to go to bulb, but the EXIF data generally tells me I got it wrong (I didn't give it as much time as I thought I did), so I like your idea of using the cell phone timer. Or investing in a cable release with timer (so many gadgets, so little money).

DPP

Great stuff, thanks.

A few responses:

• I always forget about back button AF. I'm too stubborn to switch, but yes, that would cleverly solve the shutter button refocus problem I referred to.
  
  
• ND 3.0 = 10 stops, right? That's 2^10 (i.e. 1,024) times less light getting through, so that's your shutter speed multiplier, isn't it? My phone app says 1000x for a 3.0 ND, and the Lee card would seem to corroborate that: http://www.speedgraphic.co.uk/Portals/1/product/images/prd8e36ed5a-8cf0-430f-a76c-22bcdd6e3154.jpg
  
  
• "Inputting ISO and aperture" means that I leave M or Av mode (whatever mode I framed the shot in) and go to Bulb. Switching settings (especially away from Av) often moves things back to what I last shot manually, which usually means I lose my settings. I have to do to bulb usually b/c my exposures are often longer than 30 seconds and all modes other than Bulb caps at 30s, I thought. Bulb mode is basically M without a shutter speed input, so all you need is ISO and aperture -- that's where the statement came from.

- A

 

[emko]

i have the screw on filters so i am thinking the holders are easier to setup

 

[dppaskewitz]

Thanks for your input. I'm learning. My comments below in RED.

Great stuff, thanks.

A few responses:

• I always forget about back button AF. I'm too stubborn to switch, but yes, that would cleverly solve the shutter button refocus problem I referred to. On my 6D, I have Custom Function III as one of my options on ""My menu settings." Makes switching out of back button focusing (by enabling shutter button metering and focusing) relatively easy. I imagine other modern cameras would have similar. Not so much on my old 5D.
  
  
• ND 3.0 = 10 stops, right? That's 2^10 (i.e. 1,024) times less light getting through, so that's your shutter speed multiplier, isn't it? My phone app says 1000x for a 3.0 ND, and the Lee card would seem to corroborate that: http://www.speedgraphic.co.uk/Portals/1/product/images/prd8e36ed5a-8cf0-430f-a76c-22bcdd6e3154.jpg It took me a while, but now I get it. Simply multiply 1024 by the shutter speed without the Big Stopper to get the exposure time with the Big Stopper. Since most of the shutter speeds without are really fractions of 1 over something, the actual calculation is to divide 1024 by the denominator of the shutter speed (e.g., divide 1024 by 250 for a shutter speed of 1/250th, yielding an exposure time of roughly 4 seconds, which is in accord with the Lee card). And then divide by sixty to get minutes, if that is helpful in keeping track of the time. Good to know in the field if the cell phone app isn't working and the Lee card is somewhere else.
  
  
• "Inputting ISO and aperture" means that I leave M or Av mode (whatever mode I framed the shot in) and go to Bulb. Switching settings (especially away from Av) often moves things back to what I last shot manually, which usually means I lose my settings. I have to do to bulb usually b/c my exposures are often longer than 30 seconds and all modes other than Bulb caps at 30s, I thought. Bulb mode is basically M without a shutter speed input, so all you need is ISO and aperture -- that's where the statement came from.

Right you are. On the 6D, when I switch from M (my framing, focusing and aperture setting mode) to B (for shots over 30 seconds), the ISO appears to stay the same as set in M (which makes sense) but as you note, the aperture changes to whatever aperture I had set when last using B, not what I had last set in M. Thanks for the reminder.

- A

 

[fynnieb]

Hi There, Im new to the Filter world and just wondering if you could help me.

I see your test and wonder why Im getting this issue on my shot, I've just used the big stopper and .9grad on some shots down the beach and even at 19mm and F8 on my 16-35 F4 ( 5diii ) i seem to have darker corners graduating into my shot. At 16 very bad, I have the wide angle adaptor and only the two filters in. Ive spoken to the Suppliers today and they say its the lens. but its brand new and doesn't do this in normal shots,

Thanks and I appreciate anyones feedback - is the F4 lens different to the 2.8 some how and can this effect it? am Doing something wrong?

 

[ahsanford]

Hi There, Im new to the Filter world and just wondering if you could help me.

I see your test and wonder why Im getting this issue on my shot, I've just used the big stopper and .9grad on some shots down the beach and even at 19mm and F8 on my 16-35 F4 ( 5diii ) i seem to have darker corners graduating into my shot. At 16 very bad, I have the wide angle adaptor and only the two filters in. Ive spoken to the Suppliers today and they say its the lens. but its brand new and doesn't do this in normal shots,

Thanks and I appreciate anyones feedback - is the F4 lens different to the 2.8 some how and can this effect it? am Doing something wrong?

That should not be happening. Since we have the same lens, the only things I can think of are:

• You might be shooting with a standard Lee ring and not a WA (wide angle) Lee ring. The WA rings tuck the entire apparatus closer to the lens to minimize the risk of vignetting. See this video for what I am talking about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVPVBR3CKRk -- I believe you have to have the WA ring for shooting wider than 24mm on a FF rig.
  
  
• You said you have two filters in, but that isn't what matters -- how many slots are in your holder? A three slot holder will vignette more than than a two slot holder, and so on. Think about it for a sec and it should make sense: the more something of width/diameter X gets pushed away from the front lens element, the more likely it will creep into the field of view.
  
  
• Do you already have a filter on your lens before you screw in your Lee ring? That will stack the thickness and you will see vignetting kick in 'sooner' as you go from long to wide on the focal length. In WA lenses, you really need to screw the ring on to the naked lens to avoid/minimize vignetting.
  
  
• Are you using the Lee system holder, or do you have another company's holder? Lee isn't the only one that works, but the data I gave was for their 'Foundation' holder from the 100mm system. Other holders may have slightly different thickness and location to the front element of the lens, which may affect your results.

That's the best I can think of.

- A

 

[alben]

Agree with ahsanford`s method, only things I can add are to set WB manually before inserting BS, (one colour cast is enough to remove) daylight seems to work best and do cover the OV, blue tack or a piece of electrical tape will do the job.

Regards Alan

 

[Khalai]

Hi There, Im new to the Filter world and just wondering if you could help me.

I see your test and wonder why Im getting this issue on my shot, I've just used the big stopper and .9grad on some shots down the beach and even at 19mm and F8 on my 16-35 F4 ( 5diii ) i seem to have darker corners graduating into my shot. At 16 very bad, I have the wide angle adaptor and only the two filters in. Ive spoken to the Suppliers today and they say its the lens. but its brand new and doesn't do this in normal shots,

Thanks and I appreciate anyones feedback - is the F4 lens different to the 2.8 some how and can this effect it? am Doing something wrong?

I experienced similar corner darkening with my LittleStopper and .75ND G. There may be obstruction problem with the Stoppers foam ring perhaps?

 

[xps]

I prefer to use an srew-in polarisation filter. The glass filter from Lee are to dark. (High transmission polarisation filter). Heliopan is producing one of the "brightest" polarisation filter (high transmission), followed by the Käsemann multicoated (this filter is just a little bit darker - but more expensive).

 

[xps]

Instead of adapting for and purchasing a 105mm CPL, just get a 4x4 CPL from Lee or other mfgs...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/216637-REG/LEE_Filters_PLC_G_4x4_Circular_Polarizer_Glass.html

I was not satisfied by the darkness of this filter. And I had the problem of a "grey shaping" - the light was reflecting inside the filter when used in bright sunlight. This "grey shaping" did not appear by using an screw-in filter.

 

[xps]

This is very helpful. I'm still using the 17-40 but hope to migrate to the 16-35 f/4 shortly. I've been in the process of trying to figure out the Lee holder/CPL/UWA conundrum. Next step: order the 105 ring and the B&W CPL. Thanks.

Before you pull the trigger on the 105 CPL, you should consider the wonderpana system:
http://www.wonderpana.com/

I haven't used it, but it's basically a Lee-style system with much larger filters so that the vignetting problem is a non-issue for UWA focal lengths. If you want to stack stuff and have a CPL at 16mm, this is the system you should look into.

That said, I love my Lee setup. It's well built and has industry standard sizing so I am not married to first party 4x6 filters or CPLs. And it's flexible and powerful. I can double my ND grads on harsh sunlight, stack an ND grad with a 10 stop ND, and now with a front ring the CPL is an independent consideration if I need to manage the sky (only for longer FL) or reflections (at any FL). The only time I need to juggle/think is between 16-20mm, and that's fine by me.

- A

The wonderpana system works well, but it is much more expensive than the more common Lee system. A friend of mine uses this system (Nikon 14mm). He told me that the filters are from great quality.

 

[ahsanford]

This is very helpful. I'm still using the 17-40 but hope to migrate to the 16-35 f/4 shortly. I've been in the process of trying to figure out the Lee holder/CPL/UWA conundrum. Next step: order the 105 ring and the B&W CPL. Thanks.

Before you pull the trigger on the 105 CPL, you should consider the wonderpana system:
http://www.wonderpana.com/

I haven't used it, but it's basically a Lee-style system with much larger filters so that the vignetting problem is a non-issue for UWA focal lengths. If you want to stack stuff and have a CPL at 16mm, this is the system you should look into.

That said, I love my Lee setup. It's well built and has industry standard sizing so I am not married to first party 4x6 filters or CPLs. And it's flexible and powerful. I can double my ND grads on harsh sunlight, stack an ND grad with a 10 stop ND, and now with a front ring the CPL is an independent consideration if I need to manage the sky (only for longer FL) or reflections (at any FL). The only time I need to juggle/think is between 16-20mm, and that's fine by me.

- A

The wonderpana system works well, but it is much more expensive than the more common Lee system. A friend of mine uses this system (Nikon 14mm). He told me that the filters are from great quality.

I have not seen a comprehensive review that states that the quality of the Wonderpana system is better. But in common sense, it logically should cost more -- it's much larger and therefore requires larger filter elements.

Personally, I would stay with Lee unless you must must must have the ability to stack three things at 14-16mm on FF. In my limited experience, that doesn't come up that often. Staying with Lee keeps you in the landscapers-standard 4x4 / 4x6 ecosystem, where there will be many more filter options -- both in design/style and price levels.

- A

 

[dlleno]

Personally, I would stay with Lee unless you must must must have the ability to stack three things at 14-16mm on FF. In my limited experience, that doesn't come up that often. Staying with Lee keeps you in the landscapers-standard 4x4 / 4x6 ecosystem, where there will be many more filter options -- both in design/style and price levels.

- A

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this nails it. BTW Lee has a larger system as well -- their SW150, originally developed for the Nikon 14-24, which can be used on other lenses as well with the SW150 system adapter. I went down a similar analysis road myself, and came to the same conclusion - one needs to decide if you need the capability to use the more expensive and limited options for filters that are 6-inches WIDE.

 

[M_S]

I used the 105 B+W on a 24-70 II + 2 slot Lee filter with 105 ring attached. It vignettes heavily up until 30mm. Not recommended!

 

[Scriv]

I know this thread is a couple years old, but can anyone tell me if you get vignetting at 16mm with the Lee holder setup with ONE slot, and the 105 ring with a circular polarizer.

Thanks.

 

[ahsanford]

I know this thread is a couple years old, but can anyone tell me if you get vignetting at 16mm with the Lee holder setup with ONE slot, and the 105 ring with a circular polarizer.

Thanks.

Forgive me, but pulling slots off the holder is a tiny/piecey mess, so I pulled my 2 slot + CPL ring setup out, removed the adaptor ring that threads into the lens altogether and tried to hold the holder manually over the lens in a one-slot closer than it ought to be position. I didn't center it well and the result was inconclusive.

My guess is that it that 100% depends on the specific CPL you use, but for a garden variety Lee or B+W 105mm CPL, I think it will still vignette slightly at 16mm. Why do I think this? The CPL outer rail that sticks out beyond the CPL ring is as thick as both slots. It's a solid 8mm or so (B+W Kaesemann 105mm) versus perhaps the 4mm per slot, so my guess is you'd be somewhere between my first and second scenarios in my original post.

However, if you used either a slim 105 CPL or B+W's step-ring version (105 thread + much larger outer ring to fight vignetting), the situation would become more favorable for you. Neither are great options, as the former would undoubtedly be a bear to secure and remove, and the latter costs a mint.

- A

 

[Eagle Eye]

I know this thread is a couple years old, but can anyone tell me if you get vignetting at 16mm with the Lee holder setup with ONE slot, and the 105 ring with a circular polarizer.

Thanks.

Take a look back at my post on page 1. With B+W's ultrawide 105mm KSM polarizer, a 007M protective filter, and a Lee filter holder with one slot, there's no vignetting at 16mm. Happy shooting!

 

[ahsanford]

I know this thread is a couple years old, but can anyone tell me if you get vignetting at 16mm with the Lee holder setup with ONE slot, and the 105 ring with a circular polarizer.

Thanks.

Take a look back at my post on page 1. With B+W's ultrawide 105mm KSM polarizer, a 007M protective filter, and a Lee filter holder with one slot, there's no vignetting at 16mm. Happy shooting!

Ah yes, I forgot you bought the extra-wide. That effectively takes the CPL out of the equation for vignetting, right? I'd imagine you'd see the same vignetting with that as you would with an empty CPL ring.

- A