Waiting for the EOS-1P?

[distant.star]

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Given that I'm an upstanding CHAP (Canon Heavenly Assurance Program) member, I know one day I'll be using the EOS-1P (Paradise). However, at my advanced age, I'm starting to lose hope of getting a great Canon camera before I die.

As I've posted previously I was patiently waiting for the 5D2 successor since I want better/faster AF than I have in my now two-year-old T2i. The 5D3 seemed to answer my need, unfortunately, Canon exceeded my skinflint factor. If I gave them all that money, I'd feel used, and I don't like feeling used. So, I scaled back and decided to go with the 7D and live in the 1.6 crop world. It's not a bad place to live.

Last week, thanks to CR, we got a link to a down and dirty 12-hour sale and I got a 7D for $1199 (from a highly reputable seller). Even with free shipping it arrived overnight, and I got out and happily starting making pictures. Unfortunately, the camera was defective. While the AF was the blazing fast I want, it could not deliver consistently focused images. Most had no focus at all. I tried all the AF options. I tried manual focus. In good light using the same lenses that give me great images from the T2i, the 7D could not deliver. Images of the same scene back-to-back would not be the same. So, I sent the 7D back, too leery of the whole thing to make an exchange.

The few decent pictures the 7D did deliver also made me wonder. At low ISO (100, 160) there was far more noise than I'd ever seen in the T2i -- and yet the sensors are essentially the same. While that 7D had some defect, this reminded me of all the comments I'd heard about 7D noise. I can shoot the T2i all day (and night) at 800 ISO and get good images. Any noise is easily compensated in LR, and I'm always happy with the results. Anyway, this is making me question the whole idea of going the 7D route. Even if I can get a good 7D, am I trading better AF for overall lower image quality?

So, then I start rethinking the 5D3. While I HATE the idea of pulling my pants down and bending over for Canon, do I have any alternative? But now I start reading about low ISO noise from the new 5D3 sensor. Shoot at ISO 100 and still have to process noise? Another image quality compromise I'd have to make? What is going on here? Canon is starting to seem like the "soup nazi."

Anyway, for the time being I'll continue happily making pictures with my trusty and reliable T2i -- and waiting. Unless someone can offer powerful reasoning otherwise, I'm back in a holding pattern. Maybe year's end will bring an acceptable solution. But then, that's six months closer to my EOS-1P. Surely, Canon can do better than this here on earth!

Disclaimer: I'm not trashing the 7D (or the 5D3 -- for some it IS worth the money) or the retailer who sold the defective 7D or CR or Canon -- and I haven't even mentioned Nikon (not interested). This is just part of a thought process in getting myself to good image quality with decent AF performance without giving up an unreasonable amount of money.

 

[RuneL]

.
Given that I'm an upstanding CHAP (Canon Heavenly Assurance Program) member, I know one day I'll be using the EOS-1P (Paradise). However, at my advanced age, I'm starting to lose hope of getting a great Canon camera before I die.

As I've posted previously I was patiently waiting for the 5D2 successor since I want better/faster AF than I have in my now two-year-old T2i. The 5D3 seemed to answer my need, unfortunately, Canon exceeded my skinflint factor. If I gave them all that money, I'd feel used, and I don't like feeling used. So, I scaled back and decided to go with the 7D and live in the 1.6 crop world. It's not a bad place to live.

Last week, thanks to CR, we got a link to a down and dirty 12-hour sale and I got a 7D for $1199 (from a highly reputable seller). Even with free shipping it arrived overnight, and I got out and happily starting making pictures. Unfortunately, the camera was defective. While the AF was the blazing fast I want, it could not deliver consistently focused images. Most had no focus at all. I tried all the AF options. I tried manual focus. In good light using the same lenses that give me great images from the T2i, the 7D could not deliver. Images of the same scene back-to-back would not be the same. So, I sent the 7D back, too leery of the whole thing to make an exchange.

The few decent pictures the 7D did deliver also made me wonder. At low ISO (100, 160) there was far more noise than I'd ever seen in the T2i -- and yet the sensors are essentially the same. While that 7D had some defect, this reminded me of all the comments I'd heard about 7D noise. I can shoot the T2i all day (and night) at 800 ISO and get good images. Any noise is easily compensated in LR, and I'm always happy with the results. Anyway, this is making me question the whole idea of going the 7D route. Even if I can get a good 7D, am I trading better AF for overall lower image quality?

So, then I start rethinking the 5D3. While I HATE the idea of pulling my pants down and bending over for Canon, do I have any alternative? But now I start reading about low ISO noise from the new 5D3 sensor. Shoot at ISO 100 and still have to process noise? Another image quality compromise I'd have to make? What is going on here? Canon is starting to seem like the "soup nazi."

Anyway, for the time being I'll continue happily making pictures with my trusty and reliable T2i -- and waiting. Unless someone can offer powerful reasoning otherwise, I'm back in a holding pattern. Maybe year's end will bring an acceptable solution. But then, that's six months closer to my EOS-1P. Surely, Canon can do better than this here on earth!

Disclaimer: I'm not trashing the 7D (or the 5D3 -- for some it IS worth the money) or the retailer who sold the defective 7D or CR or Canon -- and I haven't even mentioned Nikon (not interested). This is just part of a thought process in getting myself to good image quality with decent AF performance without giving up an unreasonable amount of money.

I wrote a really long reply but not really bothered.

1: Learn to use the more complex camera, in my experience this is often a problem when people go from shit tier to upper mid tier.
2: the t2i probably has marginally better iq
3: what lenses are you using.
4: buy my 1D II if you want a fast focusing camera that works. It's been tried and tested and has a new shutter, only 500 frames.

 

[D_Rochat]

If you look around, you may find a used 1D mark IV a little cheaper than a 5D mark III.

 

[distant.star]

I wrote a really long reply but not really bothered.

1: Learn to use the more complex camera, in my experience this is often a problem when people go from S___ tier to upper mid tier.

4: buy my 1D II if you want a fast focusing camera that works. It's been tried and tested and has a new shutter, only 500 frames.

You're the first graduate I've come across from the Don Rickles School of Salesmanship. Hope that works out okay for you.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

I had a bit of difficulty using my first 7D as well, it took me a couple of tries to learn to get sharp images with it.

I tested it by turning it to the green box position, and it kept focusing way off. I discovered my error and used just one or a small group of AF points and had no more issues. The camera was focusing on the closest object, which was not where I intended it to focus. This was a common issue with new users.

 

[westr70]

When I first got my 7d I struggled to get good image quality and had a lot of issues with noise, primarily in dark conditions. I complained here about it and got a lot of good advice about the camera and that was to continue to experiment with it and find a way to work with it. There is no doubt that the 7d can be difficult to work with but it is well worth the trouble to keep at it. Now I wouldn't get rid of the 7d for anything. When used properly it is a powerhouse of a camera and well worth the trouble. I use it for BIF and when you see those beautiful images show up you take a deep breath.

That being said my 5d3 should be here this weekend and we'll see what that is like but regardless the 7d will continue to be a favorite in my toolbox.

 

[distant.star]

I did not say or suggest I was incompetent or unable to correctly use the camera. I said it was defective.

I know how sophisticated AF systems function, and I know how to use them. In the original post I said many images had NO focus at all. I said images of the exact scene back-to-back with the same settings came out different -- in good light with fast shutter speeds. I said I tried turning off AF altogether and used solely manual focus. I was using SLR cameras before AF even existed so I actually know how to do that. I have and use an EOS-1V very effectively so I know what a great AF system can do.

Yet, it is obviously inconceivable to some of you that the camera could be defective. Walk past the entire original post and the whole point of it -- to simply suggest there could not possibly be a fault with the 7D. I believe the psychology community calls your affliction "cognitive dissonance." For my part, I think you simply need a few good lessons in reading comprehension.

 

[westr70]

Well, I don't know about the others but my competence was certainly in question when I started using the 7d. It took me months of working with the camera to gain acceptable images with it and I assume that my proficiency will continue to improve. I thought my camera was defective too but the previous owner had great pictures with it and I couldn't very well say that the camera had favorites.

 

[pdirestajr]

When I have my 7D in AI Servo with one focus box, I find I get an insane number of photos in exacting sharp focus exactly where I want it. I even use a bunch of old canon primes- 24 f2.8, 35 f2 and a 50 f1.8 mkI. Those lenses are spot on all day long. I actually leave my camera in AI Servo, then program the DOF preview button to switch to One Shot for when I'm shooting a "still" shot. I photograph a lot of kids these days, and they don't stop moving!

I think there is definitely a learning curve with the 7D, and what I learned us that One Shot isn't as accurate as Servo.

Noise? Never really had an issue at low ISOs. High ISOs I just move a reduce luminance/ color noise slider to the right a bit. Then when I downsize the photo and hit print, never see a problem.

Stop pixel peepin' at 100% at the camera's highest resolution.

Who are all these people making >20" prints of every photo they take?