Weird Banding on shots....

[K-amps]

Whats happening to my shiny new 5d3?

Burst shot at 1/1000th sec, F/2.8 @ 70mm 12,800 ISO (was set to Auto)

I was at a local Church shooting some guys playing badminton at high ISO (12,800) and I saw some yellow banding across the shots. First I was not sure if it was random lighting issues or what, then I started to take burst shots, and the banding appeared moving across each frame... What the heck is it?

EDIT: Issue exists behind the Camera it seems. :-[

 

[iso79]

Re: 5d3 Camera issue already?

I would return it quick for a replacement.

 

[jaxonyu]

Re: 5d3 Camera issue already?

it's the fluorescent lighting in the gym. you're catching the flicker of the lights so it's casting a weird color. try shooting at 1/60th and see if you get the same problem. otherwise, you'll have to use flashes to shoot that quick of a shutter.

 

[DeepShadows]

Re: 5d3 Camera issue already?

Seriously, stop trying to be a sensationist! It's because of the fluorescent lighting, every camera will do this at those shutter speeds. Fault of lighting, not camera... the lights cycle, have people making claims like this ever used a camera before?

 

[Louis]

Re: 5d3 Camera issue already?

yep normal, its happened to me before on the Mark 2, its just the lighting is flickering and u cant see it with your human eye, but the camera can at those shutter speeds,

 

[K-amps]

Re: 5d3 Camera issue already?

yep normal, its happened to me before on the Mark 2, its just the lighting is flickering and u cant see it with your human eye, but the camera can at those shutter speeds,

FEW... thanks guys. For a sec I was a bit worried.

 

[Admin US West]

Re: 5d3 Camera issue already?

Yup, the old style fluorescent lighting. All the high ISO in the world won't help, because you need fast shutter speeds to stop movement, and then you catch the flicker of the lights. They change color as the flicker off and on as well.

Donate some money to that church dedicated to updating their lighting to buy lights that use electronic ballasts in their fixtures. They operate at much higher rates, so flickering will not be a issue.

 

[K-amps]

Re: 5d3 Camera issue already?

Yup, the old style fluorescent lighting. All the high ISO in the world won't help, because you need fast shutter speeds to stop movement, and then you catch the flicker of the lights. They change color as the flicker off and on as well.

Donate some money to that church dedicated to updating their lighting to buy lights that use electronic ballasts in their fixtures. They operate at much higher rates, so flickering will not be a issue.

Good idea!

 

[Z]

Re: 5d3 Camera issue already?

I think everyone's being a bit harsh on you, to be honest, K-amps! It was an easy mistake to make and should it have happened on a camera that wasn't brand new, you'd probably have considered the environment as the problem and not the camera. Happy shooting.

 

[Maxis Gamez]

Re: 5d3 Camera issue already?

You may want to edit the title of this thread as it can be misleading. Just a thought.

Congrats with your new camera.

Thanks!

www.gvisions.org - Bird Photography

 

[K-amps]

Weird Banding in shots

You may want to edit the title of this thread as it can be misleading. Just a thought.

Congrats with your new camera.

Thanks!

www.gvisions.org - Bird Photography

Agree! Done.

 

[CanineCandidsByL]

Experienced photographers may not have often even seen this, so you shouldn't feel embarased about asking. Since cameras are only getting to the necessary sensitivities to shoot that fast in natural florescent lighting, we may start seeing this question regularly as these sorts of speeds move down into lower cost models. Nice catch on seeing the banding and realizing its moving in frame.

Assuming you have a flash available, you might try using it. With these high sensitivies, it will actually have a very long throw.

 

[K-amps]

Experienced photographers may not have often even seen this, so you shouldn't feel embarased about asking. Since cameras are only getting to the necessary sensitivities to shoot that fast in natural florescent lighting, we may start seeing this question regularly as these sorts of speeds move down into lower cost models. Nice catch on seeing the banding and realizing its moving in frame.

Assuming you have a flash available, you might try using it. With these high sensitivies, it will actually have a very long throw.

Thank you and yes, in years of shooting never saw this before. Never shot ISO12,800 and 1/1000th of a sec before, never had this much technology in my hands before

 

[Chewy734]

It was an honest question, but the way it was phrased . . .

For those of us who have defended this camera and have high hopes, it is a sensitive time. After a while, the camera will have proved itself and will not need such defending.

I think it was phrased fine. Honestly, for a $3500 camera, everyone should have high hopes. I'm glad the OP figured out the issue.

 

[Crapking]

How about situations like this where a flash is inappropriate? Any other work-arounds in post-production or other camera settings (white balance, metering options) that might reduce it?OR, Is this just a function of the higher ISO sensitivity? I shoot in gyms like this all the time (7D/1dIV) using 1/800-1/1000, up to ISO 3200-6400 and have never seen it. Have I been 'lucky' that my shutter speed and the frequency of the flickering just have not been in synch, or has my camera been unable to detect it at these lower ISOs?

 

[Z]

How about situations like this where a flash is inappropriate? Any other work-arounds in post-production or other camera settings (white balance, metering options) that might reduce it?OR, Is this just a function of the higher ISO sensitivity? I shoot in gyms like this all the time (7D/1dIV) using 1/800-1/1000, up to ISO 3200-6400 and have never seen it. Have I been 'lucky' that my shutter speed and the frequency of the flickering just have not been in synch, or has my camera been unable to detect it at these lower ISOs?

There are lots of different kinds of fluorescent lighting, it's likely that you haven't come across this particular type. Dramatic banding as seen in the OP's photos tends to be seen with older lights. That being said, fluorescent lighting of any kind is the bane of white balance because it oscillates in colour temperature. If you must shoot without flash, and you must shoot at fast shutter speeds you are eventually going to see something similar to OP's results.

EDIT: That being said, although it is difficult and time-consuming to correct in post, it isn't impossible. Here is a quick effort of mine using a magenta colour curves and gradient mask. Before (above) and after.

 

[AnselA]

There is no shame in deleting your own post.

 

[markIVantony]

I shoot sports in gyms a lot during the winter months, and this type of problem is a constant frustration (though mine have been mostly white balance-type issues, not banding). Some gyms are definitely worse than others! I haven't found any practical way to counteract the light cycling. Full manual, full auto, fixed white-balance, auto WB, etc doesn't help. The end result is almost a doubling of the post-processing work required since every other pic has a different color cast.

 

[K-amps]

I shoot sports in gyms a lot during the winter months, and this type of problem is a constant frustration (though mine have been mostly white balance-type issues, not banding). Some gyms are definitely worse than others! I haven't found any practical way to counteract the light cycling. Full manual, full auto, fixed white-balance, auto WB, etc doesn't help. The end result is almost a doubling of the post-processing work required since every other pic has a different color cast.

When I was shooting and had no idea what was going on, I thought I messed up some menu settings, so I tried video... that was so much worse, 3 yellow bands across the entire frame. Now that I know a bit more, I will play with shutter speeds and see if it goes away (although I lose the ability to freeze). Granted a flash may resolve this, but I'd rather not use one and startle the players .

 

[BK]

How about situations like this where a flash is inappropriate? Any other work-arounds in post-production or other camera settings (white balance, metering options) that might reduce it?OR, Is this just a function of the higher ISO sensitivity? I shoot in gyms like this all the time (7D/1dIV) using 1/800-1/1000, up to ISO 3200-6400 and have never seen it. Have I been 'lucky' that my shutter speed and the frequency of the flickering just have not been in synch, or has my camera been unable to detect it at these lower ISOs?

Based on my understanding this is solely a function of shutter speed. It's similar to the rolling shutter phenomenon and this would probably not be an issue with an electronic shutter. Your mechanical shutter does not expose the entire sensor at once. One curtain opens and another closes behind it. With fast shutter speeds both of the curtains move simultaneously. So the sensor is exposed in "slivers."

A portion of the "slivers" being exposed are darker and have a green color shift because the fluorescent lights had cycled while the shutter was in motion.

The article on focal plane shutters at Wikipedia has a diagram showing the function of the shutter. Based on my understanding, the aperture and sensor sensitivity will have little if any effect on the banding.

Gyms can have a variety of lighting types and not just fluorescent which might explain why some people don't see this or don't see it as often.

I've shot basketball and volleyball in gyms and never had an issue. I only discovered this issue when shooting at my son's karate school. Shooting at 1/160 gets me a large number of keepers and I don't see anything at all at 1/125. Flash kills off the banding completely. Now if I could get the instructor to get rid of the bright blue and pink mats which makes getting reasonable skin tones almost impossible...