What’s next for the Canon EOS R5 and Canon EOS R6?

[unfocused]

Do people buy a screwdriver and complain that it's shit for driving nails?

To be fair, if the screwdriver were accompanied by a massive ad campaign touting it's ability to drive nails people might have a right to complain.

I think the problem is not that it overheats, it's that Canon went out of their way to market the video capabilities of the camera, overshadowing the stills aspects, and failed to anticipate the concerns that are now being raised as a direct outgrowth of their own marketing. (And, I don't shoot video by the way.)

 

[Jim Corbett]

What's next?
R1 - Photo-only pro body with 1dx-like grip, 2xSSD, Animal eye pupil AF @ 16fps 14 bit mechanical, or 20fps @ 13bit e-shutter, nuclear blast proof and 5 million shutter life.
Stop giving us breadcrumbs and hot potatoes, get real, Canon!!!

 

[TominNJ]

The heatsink can be weather sealed... in fact it can be water tight. The Sigma fp is designed to use the back middle of the camera as a heatsink. That body is fully weather sealed and has zero overheating issues. I can literally run the fp all day long.

that type of solution would be a redesign of the camera. The board containing the digic X might have to be relocated. The back is taken up by the flip out screen. that might work in a new camera designed from the ground up. As a fix it’s probably not possible especially in a reasonable time frame.

 

[Joules]

I am surprised by the number of people talking about adding vents or a heat sink. Do you really think Canon hasn't physically engineered the camera as well as they could to handle heat dissipation? What would vents do for you without active airflow going through them? And adding a fan that's not just an external accessory, but an actually integrated component, just gives the people who complain about video on stills bodies a valid talking point.

If a hardware fix is coming, I would not be shocked if the cause of overheating is partially related to Canon not being able to manufacture or source the quality of components they had planned due to the pandemic. And the 'fix' simply being switching a part (simply used very lightly here, of course that is significant effort for product integration)

I attribute the reduction in CIPA battery numbers despite the increase in capacity to the IBIS. But I'm not even certain if CIPA testing requires IS to be engaged. If it isn't, it may well be that the R6 and R5 don't get all the new hardware with the greatly improved efficiency we saw in the 90D and 1DX III (where CIPA numbers went way up compared to the predecessors). It seems the 90D production isn't going too well at the moment. At least I have a friend who just bought one and said he had real trouble finding a store that had it in stock (very anecdotal, so don't make to much of it).

It all seems unlikely to me though. If they do something in software, it's probably offering more line skipped video options and giving you a way to accept toasting your hardware, like on the Sony.

I feel like all this speculation and acting as if the cameras had an actual problem isn't helping anyone really. We have now heard what the camera isn't capable of. But the reviews and testing on what it can do are very sparse so far. What is out there seems to indicate that especially the R5 is a remarkable leap in technology and should make buyers very happy. I am torn between it and the R6, an since stock seems to be an issue, have no problem with waiting a little longer to see how it all pans out.

 

[LSXPhotog]

I am pretty confident that if the second batch isn't shipping until November, the small amount they sent out now will be recalled. There are COUNTLESS stories that camera stores only received between 20-30% of their order request. That doesn't sound like just a COVID delay. It sounds like a stop in production. I think they are releasing a small number of cameras to reduce the damage and potential recall. I'm not too concerned, but it does not look great for Canon right now...if they can get this camera to record reliably 4K60 and 4K120....this will be a home run for all parties.

As a photographer, it's already a home run. So I just don't care. LOL

 

[CarlMillerPhoto]

Even if a firmware update allows a higher heat threshold before shutting off, I'm not turning it on (and hopefully it's an option users can toggle). Not worth it to reduce the life of the electronics. The normal 4k mode out of the R5 looks pretty dang good, and I can work around the other limitations, including for hour-long wedding ceremonies.

Only thing I want on the R5 is 1080p 120fps, unlimited record time, and dual slot video recording. Other than that they can leave it alone, and simply make an RF C100 for everybody that does video and is complaining.

It's also sort of sad that video has hijacked the R5 dialogue. The first "professional" mirrorless camera from Canon and for all purposes it's what every Canon photographer has dreamed of. This is coming from an 80%video/20% photo guy, too.

 

[DBounce]

that type of solution would be a redesign of the camera. The board containing the digic X might have to be relocated. The back is taken up by the flip out screen. that might work in a new camera designed from the ground up. As a fix it’s probably not possible especially in a reasonable time frame.

Honestly, I do not know what Canon has in mind, but I'm certain they had this fix sitting around as a plan B. Perhaps it will involve swapping out the back of the body? I know that the EF to RF cooling mount is not a viable solution as it means the camera will essentially be a EF body. That will kill the incentive to buy RF glass. So if a physical change is required, it will likely come in the form of a vented heatsink back underneath the screen... Perhaps an active cooling solution will be required? Honestly, while they are at it I would be 100% ok with them doing something about the battery life also.

 

[Sibir Lupus]

Or they can go the sony way by changing this line in the firmware:

#DEFINE shutdown_temp 85
into
#DEFINE shutdown_temp 105

Jokes aside this is the way sony addressed overheating complaints in the past:

"One of the major improvement has been seen on the A6300. With the new firmware it takes more than double the time before it overheats in comparison to the older firmware."

"Sony has now fixed the problem with firmware version 1.01 for the Sony Alpha A9. In the change log it simply says 'This utility updates the camera firmware to version 1.01 and improves the overheating warning functionality."

So did Sony actually address the issue of heat buildup (better coding, more efficient use of processor, etc), or did they just reduce the overheat protection by raising the threshold? If its the latter, then a higher heat buildup before it shuts down means the internals will wear down faster over time.

 

[davidhfe]

the conversations going on in Canon engineering must be interesting.

if it’s anything like most of the engineering groups I’ve worked with the conversations are “We told marketing there were thermal limits to these modes why did they publish them as headline features?” And “Great now we have to clean up their mess”

 

[vjlex]

This is starting to remind me of the fiery Galaxy Note 7 fiasco. Debuted, recalled, and discontinued all within 2 months. I couldn't believe something like that could happen... especially not on the 7th iteration of a product. I had been thinking about getting one, but before I could decide, they pulled it. Similarly, my first inclination with this R5 situation is to scoff and say a recall ain't happening. But stranger things have happened.

If there were a recall (which I still doubt), it might be a good opportunity to upgrade that HDMI port to 2.1, and pave the way for 8K RAW to be recorded externally (and thereby mitigate some of those heat issues for people who want to use 8K extensively).

All I hope for at this point is just some clarity about this product that has been shrouded in an unusually thick veil of mystery for months, and still is-- on its own release day.

 

[bergstrom]

best thing is cancel your order and take the wait and see approach.

 

[Max C]

...something doesn't seem right about this entire scenario--surely Canon knew about the heat issues prior to the product's release, right?

They thought the 8k gimmick would gloss over the cracks, also they are relying on all their loyalist customers to defend them no matter what problems the product has, also they are aware that many people are trapped behind thousands of dollars of great EF glass already owned. They also thought they had the best looking girl at the dance, but then Sony and the A7sIII walked through door.

 

[davidhfe]

To be fair, if the screwdriver were accompanied by a massive ad campaign touting it's ability to drive nails people might have a right to complain.

I think the problem is not that it overheats, it's that Canon went out of their way to market the video capabilities of the camera, overshadowing the stills aspects, and failed to anticipate the concerns that are now being raised as a direct outgrowth of their own marketing. (And, I don't shoot video by the way.)

Total unforced error. The body shoots 4K full width and 4K from a 5.1K crop without overheating. Quality better than an A7R4 (422 10 bit) and better AF than a Z7*.

And yet there are YT stars with literally 1M+ followers on twitter saying the body is only good for short bursts of video.

Heads should be rolling at Canon—and not their engineering group.

(I am not sure I can deal with my 60D until November—maybe I need to pick up a used R. My 5D4 is already heading to KEH)

*both bin/skip their FF modes and have soft 4K in those modes.

 

[Krispy]

I assume Canon has issued recalls in the past. Anyone know how they dealt with it/would deal with it in the case of the R5?

 

[Stu_bert]

I don’t think it will be just firmware - doesn’t quite make sense. If they believe they can fix it with firmware, well then announce that stills people can buy it but you’ll make improvements for video (codecs, bit rates etc) and those will be available later in the year. Stills shooters continue to buy or anyone not worried about the record limits. Download the new firmware when it is out.

if Canon has delayed the 2nd batch to November then that feels like they are withholding stock as they don’t want the additional costs of recall - cuts into their margins a lot...

Also given lead times for manufacturing November indicates they are close to a solution and hence why an announcement is imminent. They then have to either retrofit the existing stock, or manufacture new and then retrofit. Either way, one would assume they will have a solution by end August

 

[TomR]

The reason this camera won't have new stock until November is they need to ship with this new accessory

 

[fabao]

For me this heating issue is much to do about nothing. It's 45mpx shooting at 12/20fps with IBIS that works with the RF lens IS, DPAFII WITH human AND animal eye focus that looks to work amazing, 120hz hi-rez viewfinder refresh rate, hi-rez touch/flip screen and MORE. In short, the r5's stills abilities are freaking amazing and along the lines of the 1dmiii series, if not better.

Oh, did I mention it'll shoot 4k no crop. OH and did I mention 8k NO CROP with Dual Pixel CMOS AF the whole time?? Something NO OTHER manufacturer has even whispered of doing?

All of this in a body that is half the size of the 1d series and a couple thousand dollars less. I can't figure out why people are upset, I really can't.

Of course it's going to have heating issues. Personally, all this fretting about it is nonsensical. People need to REALIZE what this camera DOES and stop complaining about what this camera CAN'T DO. If it doesn't fit the bill for you, don't buy it, k? It'll leave more bodies on the shelf for the people that appreciate cutting edge tech.

Couldn't agree more. Just the still features alone are worth getting this camera for me: it will stabilize my 28-70, keep my kids and dog eyes in focus, while shooting at 12 (or 20fps) at 45 MP, which will leave a lot of room for cropping. Plus, the video itself is much better than my Panna m43 setup. The autofocus there is just horrible. I just like shooting a couple of seconds clips here and there at 4K/60fps that I slowdown later and throw some music on top. This camera is perfect!

 

[StevenA]

To be fair, if the screwdriver were accompanied by a massive ad campaign touting it's ability to drive nails people might have a right to complain.

I think the problem is not that it overheats, it's that Canon went out of their way to market the video capabilities of the camera, overshadowing the stills aspects, and failed to anticipate the concerns that are now being raised as a direct outgrowth of their own marketing. (And, I don't shoot video by the way.)

Perhaps. But I think everyone was smart enough to assume their would be heating issues with the type of technology Canon was touting. In fact, people DID outwardly wonder how they were going to handle the heating issues. Which means we expected it, then got upset when it became a reality.

 

[mrproxy]

From production vise - if they start to think how to upgrade body to deal with heat, then new iteration will be available this time next year an not earlier. Unfortunately R&D takes time, then testing testing testing. Once that done - then you need to set up production process. Run first batch - get it to test, then certify with FCC/CE/etc. Then production + shipment.
The way how R5 and R6 are built - were already fixed year ago. Some improvements to FW could be done, but in a lot of cases FW capabilities are limited by HW.

 

[Joules]

They thought the 8k gimmick would gloss over the cracks, also they are relying on all their loyalist customers to defend them no matter what problems the product has, also they are aware that many people are trapped behind thousands of dollars of great EF glass already owned. They also thought they had the best looking girl at the dance, but then Sony and the A7sIII walked through door.

But the R5 has no problem that needs defending. Some of its capabilities come with limitations. For some of these capabilities, you can find a competitors product, that offers them as well. If the R5's limitations on these regards outweigh it's benefits, just go for the competition. For most capabilities in the R5 (8K, 45 MP 20 FPS, RF glass, ergonomics, up 8 stop IBIS, etc.), that is easier said than done, since very few or no similarly priced competitors offer it currently.

You shouldn't act offended on behalf of these poor souls that are trapped by they multi thousand dollar EF line up, since they are aren't forced to buy and R5 and customers of that camera are getting an amazing camera for all we know currently anyway.