What do you think will be the Shelf life of the EOS 6D ?

[unfocused]

I pretty much quit worrying about sturdiness after watching that Digital Rev segment where they abuse a Rebel and a similar level Nikon.

 

[Sporgon]

Not putting too fine a point on it: How could you tell? The 6d is not out long enough to evaluate its durability, but the specs cast a doubt on it (short shutter life, no 1/8000 shutter) plus it's only "amateur" cps silver in the EU vs. 5d2/5d3 "platinum" which might mean it's just marketing, but then again it might mean Canon really thinks the 6d will be broken more

I noticed this too. The original 5D is 'gold'. The 6D sits in a different marketing position that it's creation created. It wouldn't surprise me if the 6D uses quite a few 5D mkii parts such as the prism, shutter etc and the syncs, max Ss etc are just marketing. Only time will tell on the durability, but I'm quite confident.

 

[Skirball]

The solidity of the 6D is not an issue, it is very rigid and robust. There really is no major issue at all.

Not putting too fine a point on it: How could you tell?

You're right, you can't. But it goes the other way too. People talk a lot of the increased durability of the bigger heavier cameras, but the data is anecdotal at best. Mostly it's based off the assumption that heavier = better. I've heard just as many stories of high end Canon and Nikon cameras falling to pieces when dropped.

Most talk on the internet when it comes to the body makes it sound like the Rebel falls apart if you look at it wrong. I've beat the crap out of mine and it's still clicking. I prefer the feel of my 6D, but I don't have any data to suggest it's going to last longer than the plastic Rebel (given the relatively short lifespan of the technology inside).

 

[Marsu42]

You're right, you can't. But it goes the other way too. People talk a lot of the increased durability of the bigger heavier cameras, but the data is anecdotal at best.

... except for shutter life, there's no doubt more expensive cameras are built to withstand shooting at max. shutter speed, while a landscape/portrait camera like the 6d won't withstand that abuse but is expected to be shot at moderate shutter speeds.

That's probable also the reason why Canon fw disables 1/8000s shutter - you can set it with Magic Lantern (but Canon keeps resetting it) which most likely means Canon considered a 6d with 1/8000s but then decided against it, may it be because of marketing or durability or both.

 

[Skirball]

You're right, you can't. But it goes the other way too. People talk a lot of the increased durability of the bigger heavier cameras, but the data is anecdotal at best.

... except for shutter life, there's no doubt more expensive cameras are built to withstand shooting at max. shutter speed, while a landscape/portrait camera like the 6d won't withstand that abuse but is expected to be shot at moderate shutter speeds.

Yes, agreed. I actually had a "except for shutter life..." in my original post but I pulled it out to keep it shorter. But to me that has more to do with the fact that Canon made a claim on the shutter life, so I would hold Canon to it if it came up short. But even that is just a guideline, I had well over 100k on my 450D before I replaced it, and it’s still shooting just fine.

And I’m not claiming that Rebels are as robust as higher end models, just that the perceived robustness of higher end models may not make a marked difference in the life span in general.

 

[Skirball]

That's probable also the reason why Canon fw disables 1/8000s shutter - you can set it with Magic Lantern (but Canon keeps resetting it) which most likely means Canon considered a 6d with 1/8000s but then decided against it, may it be because of marketing or durability or both.

I didn't realize that was done already.

Not to derail the discussion, but how is the ML with 6D? I poked my nose in a few months ago and it wasn't official yet so I thought I'd wait. I've never used ML, and I don't do video, but I'd probably give it a go for little things like 1/8000 and focus stacking (is that available on 6D?).

 

[Zv]

I pretty much quit worrying about sturdiness after watching that Digital Rev segment where they abuse a Rebel and a similar level Nikon.

The one where they try and trash a 7D and at the end it still worked was when I stopped worrying about sturdiness. Haven't seen the rebel one, need to look it up.

 

[Marsu42]

Not to derail the discussion, but how is the ML with 6D? I poked my nose in a few months ago and it wasn't official yet so I thought I'd wait.

Works fine, all features available - but it isn't stable and will crash on you occasionally (= remove battery).

Since there is only one guy really working on it (and some others submitting a few patches now and then like me) it will be quite a while until it's labeled stable as he's also doing 7d & eosm... so if you don't shoot weddings & want it go for it now - see "new ports" in the ml forum.

 

[jm]

i think give the awsmness of the 70d and crappy auto-focus of the 6d, it has to go. aside from auto-focus, its an amazing camera with great image quality and features.

http://www.johnmckayphotography.com

 

[Janbo Makimbo]

i think give the awsmness of the 70d and crappy auto-focus of the 6d, it has to go. aside from auto-focus, its an amazing camera with great image quality and features.

http://www.johnmckayphotography.com

think it will outlast the 70D..... which will be overshadowed by the 7D II.

 

[CarlTN]

The solidity of the 6D is not an issue, it is very rigid and robust. There really is no major issue at all.

Not putting too fine a point on it: How could you tell? The 6d is not out long enough to evaluate its durability, but the specs cast a doubt on it (short shutter life, no 1/8000 shutter) plus it's only "amateur" cps silver in the EU vs. 5d2/5d3 "platinum" which might mean it's just marketing, but then again it might mean Canon really thinks the 6d will be broken more often.

I guess what I'm saying is, I see zero valid reason to buy a used 5D2 over a new or used 6D today...other than nostalgia.

Joystick is nice if your other camera bodies also have it (that's why I'm happy with my 60d & 6d) ... and for the 5d2 there's longer shutter life, 1/8000s shutter speed, 1/200 x-sync which are important/hard aspects and might make some people decide still for the 5d2.

Is there that much difference between 1/180 sec flash sync, and 1/200? The strobe effect of the flash is much faster than the sync, so that is essentially the exposure of light on the subject. There was another thread about flash photogs always shooting in manual mode, to vary the amount of ambient light that fills their flash images...so how much of an issue is 1/20 of a second of flash sync difference going to make? None really.

And the 6D is rated for the same 100,000 shutter cycles as your 60D, so unless you're going to sell your 60D immediately...you're kind of trying to have it both ways here. I believe the 5D2 was rated for 150,000 cycles...not a huge difference, especially when compared to 1 series...and their rumored shutter lives of half a million plus actuations.

I believe you own and use the 6D, do you not? I could be mistaken...but if you do, you definitely should sell it immediately, since it's such an inept camera for you.

 

[CarlTN]

Not putting too fine a point on it: How could you tell? The 6d is not out long enough to evaluate its durability, but the specs cast a doubt on it (short shutter life, no 1/8000 shutter) plus it's only "amateur" cps silver in the EU vs. 5d2/5d3 "platinum" which might mean it's just marketing, but then again it might mean Canon really thinks the 6d will be broken more

I noticed this too. The original 5D is 'gold'. The 6D sits in a different marketing position that it's creation created. It wouldn't surprise me if the 6D uses quite a few 5D mkii parts such as the prism, shutter etc and the syncs, max Ss etc are just marketing. Only time will tell on the durability, but I'm quite confident.

+1 !!

 

[CarlTN]

You're right, you can't. But it goes the other way too. People talk a lot of the increased durability of the bigger heavier cameras, but the data is anecdotal at best.

... except for shutter life, there's no doubt more expensive cameras are built to withstand shooting at max. shutter speed, while a landscape/portrait camera like the 6d won't withstand that abuse but is expected to be shot at moderate shutter speeds.

Yes, agreed. I actually had a "except for shutter life..." in my original post but I pulled it out to keep it shorter. But to me that has more to do with the fact that Canon made a claim on the shutter life, so I would hold Canon to it if it came up short. But even that is just a guideline, I had well over 100k on my 450D before I replaced it, and it’s still shooting just fine.

And I’m not claiming that Rebels are as robust as higher end models, just that the perceived robustness of higher end models may not make a marked difference in the life span in general.

Interesting points, and most interesting that you've gotten over 100k cycles on your Rebel. Which Rebel is it again?

Frankly I don't need to shoot 150,000 cycles at 1/8000 of a second, and neither does anyone else in the world for that matter. 1/4000 of a second more than gets the job done. For my pro aerial shots, 1/2500 is fast enough to freeze everything completely...while being shaken up and down as if I'm on the back of a bucking bronco (turbulence in a Cessna going 90+ mph, window open...prop blast occasionally coming in)...and even while zoomed in to 200mm...while managing accurate infinity autofocus to boot.

What is the maximum shutter speed any sports pro uses 95% of the time? I bet it's under 1/4000. Even Formula 1 crash shots are usually under 1/4000...at least the ones I've seen published. Why? Well because they're at F/8 at 600mm or more, and I guess they don't wanna shoot at ISO 12,000+...

 

[Loswr]

Frankly I don't need to shoot 150,000 cycles at 1/8000 of a second, and neither does anyone else in the world for that matter. 1/4000 of a second more than gets the job done.

Good point, I don't think I've ever needed 1/8000 s to stop action when 1/4000 s wouldn't have worked (though I have had times when neither were fast enough, and I needed the ~1/30000 s duration of a Speedlite at 1/128 power). But, it's not only about stopping action - I've used 1/8000 many times. The extra stop is useful when shooting outdoor portraits with a fast prime, if you don't have an ND filter handy, want a strong background blur, and don't want blown highlights.

 

[CarlTN]

Frankly I don't need to shoot 150,000 cycles at 1/8000 of a second, and neither does anyone else in the world for that matter. 1/4000 of a second more than gets the job done.

Good point, I don't think I've ever needed 1/8000 s to stop action when 1/4000 s wouldn't have worked (though I have had times when neither were fast enough, and I needed the ~1/30000 s duration of a Speedlite at 1/128 power). But, it's not only about stopping action - I've used 1/8000 many times. The extra stop is useful when shooting outdoor portraits with a fast prime, if you don't have an ND filter handy, want a strong background blur, and don't want blown highlights.

True...but an ND filter costs a lot less than $1200, if you need to shoot f/1.2 in bright sunlight. Of course you can always pay a lot for the convenience of not having to take the filter out of the bag and screw it on. It just depends on how much luxury you're willing to buy to get the job done. Those of us who would prefer to make a profit from photography, would have a hard time doing so if we spent a fortune up front, though.

I've used 1/8000 of a second too with other bodies, but it was about .005% of the time. 1/6400 and 1/5000/second was more like .008% of the time. Not exactly a necessity. The better 61 point AF is radically more useful than going from 1/4000 to 1/8000 of a second...or going from 1/180 sync to 1/200...or an extra 50k shutter cycles 5 years from now (pretty sure I will have sold my own 6D before it even hits 30 or 40k cycles...let alone 100k...my 50D only had 25k cycles in 4 years. It also had a flash sync specified at 1/250 second, so I guess it was better than a 5D3 in that regard).

I hope you've racked up the cycles on your 1DX like you rack up posts in this forum...how many cycles you got on the 1DX now? 30k? That's my guess anyway. I just rolled over 10k on my 6D...I think. I need to check and see how many my cousin has on his 1DX. I bet it's only like 4000, if that.

 

[Marsu42]

True...but an ND filter costs a lot less than $1200, if you need to shoot f/1.2 in bright sunlight.

The situation where the lack of 1/8000 hurts is bracketing in bright light, for example if you've got the evening sun in the picture... and you can't use an nd filter here, because you also want to have the shadows in one bracket.

or going from 1/180 sync to 1/200...

My main issue with the slow x-sync is not the difference to 1/200s, but that you have to set 1/2ev exposure level increments to get it (or it's 1/160s) - but that *also* means you can only set 1/2ev flash ec steps, which are far too large steps for ettl metering :-(

I didn't succeed yet to force 1/180s on the 6d in 1/3ev more through Magic Lantern because the canon fw forces it to 1/2ev steps... the only way to combine max. x-sync with the smaller steps is in Av mode with a fixed 1/180s shutter speed (in the flash menu).

or an extra 50k shutter cycles 5 years from now (pretty sure I will have sold my own 6D before it even hits 30 or 40k cycles...let alone 100k...my 50D only had 25k cycles in 4 years.

Oh my, I'm at nearly 10k after one month (I shoot a lot of fluffy things that move around), I really hope the 6d shutter is sturdier than what the spec indicates, my 100k rated 60d is still fine @150k cycles :-o

 

[CarlTN]

True...but an ND filter costs a lot less than $1200, if you need to shoot f/1.2 in bright sunlight.

The situation where the lack of 1/8000 hurts is bracketing in bright light, for example if you've got the evening sun in the picture... and you can't use an nd filter here, because you also want to have the shadows in one bracket.

or going from 1/180 sync to 1/200...

My main issue with the slow x-sync is not the difference to 1/200s, but that you have to set 1/2ev exposure level increments to get it (or it's 1/160s) - but that *also* means you can only set 1/2ev flash ec steps, which are far too large steps for ettl metering :-(

I didn't succeed yet to force 1/180s on the 6d in 1/3ev more through Magic Lantern because the canon fw forces it to 1/2ev steps... the only way to combine max. x-sync with the smaller steps is in Av mode with a fixed 1/180s shutter speed (in the flash menu).

or an extra 50k shutter cycles 5 years from now (pretty sure I will have sold my own 6D before it even hits 30 or 40k cycles...let alone 100k...my 50D only had 25k cycles in 4 years.

Oh my, I'm at nearly 10k after one month (I shoot a lot of fluffy things that move around), I really hope the 6d shutter is sturdier than what the spec indicates, my 100k rated 60d is still fine @150k cycles :-o

Thanks for setting me straight, certainly HDR exposure in that situation would be helped by 1/8000/sec...but I think I could get by without it anyway...perhaps with an ND filter that is weaker (to be able to bracket for the shadows as well...or else remove it). I don't do much HDR, and none directly into sun that is not shrouded by cloud...if that is what you're referring to. Those images have a trite look to them, to me. And clear skies can be boring.

10k in one month is kind of high. You sure you've only had the 6D for a month? Could have sworn you were talking about your 6D like back in June or whenever it was. You should use more than one body (or perhaps you already do have more than one 6D). 10k on the 6D in a month, which only fires at 4.5 fps...you're working it a lot aren't you? What are you shooting?

Are you implying you honestly think the 6D's shutter could be less robust than the 60D's? (Since it is apparently exceeding its rated life for you already?) I guess it's possible that it could be of lesser quality than the 60D's, time will tell. I would bet big that it is not lesser quality, or less durable. Still, I won't be keeping mine to 100k cycles. Perhaps 50k if I go really nuts, but not more than that...assuming I don't lose track of the count before then.

 

[pensive tomato]

My main issue with the slow x-sync is not the difference to 1/200s, but that you have to set 1/2ev exposure level increments to get it (or it's 1/160s) - but that *also* means you can only set 1/2ev flash ec steps, which are far too large steps for ettl metering :-(

I didn't succeed yet to force 1/180s on the 6d in 1/3ev more through Magic Lantern because the canon fw forces it to 1/2ev steps... the only way to combine max. x-sync with the smaller steps is in Av mode with a fixed 1/180s shutter speed (in the flash menu).

I'm curious about what you're describing here. I have my 6D set to 1/3-stop increments. Shooting in M with a speedlite, I can adjust my shutter speed and aperture in thirds up to 1/180 s (of course, no HSS involved). So it goes from 1/160-s to 1/180-s, in a 1/6-stop increment, but otherwise it's 1/3 of a stop, as in from 1/125-s to 1/160-s. I use E-TTL, and I can also keep doing 1/3-stop FEC adjustments without a problem.

Am I missing your point here? Basically I don't understand what you mean about being forced to work on 1/2 increments (which I agree it's limiting).

I'm not commenting on the shelf life of the 6D. For my use as a hobbyist, I hope that I'll be replacing the camera before it dies. I'm honestly curious to know what is the limitation you're pointing out.

 

[Marsu42]

Am I missing your point here?

No, you're not missing my point here, but I have always set my speedlite to HSS - and then 1/180s is not available with C.Fn I-1 set to 1/3ev ... *but* you're correct, if you set the speedlite to non-HSS or 2nd curtain the camera indeed goes 1/160s -> 1/180s, I admit I never noticed this.

Unfortunately this means to go from 1/180s to a higher shutter speed you not only have to dial, but have to press the sync button on the speedlite ... but still better than switching the C.Fn I guess :-o so thanks for the hint!

 

[CarlTN]

My main issue with the slow x-sync is not the difference to 1/200s, but that you have to set 1/2ev exposure level increments to get it (or it's 1/160s) - but that *also* means you can only set 1/2ev flash ec steps, which are far too large steps for ettl metering :-(

I didn't succeed yet to force 1/180s on the 6d in 1/3ev more through Magic Lantern because the canon fw forces it to 1/2ev steps... the only way to combine max. x-sync with the smaller steps is in Av mode with a fixed 1/180s shutter speed (in the flash menu).

I'm curious about what you're describing here. I have my 6D set to 1/3-stop increments. Shooting in M with a speedlite, I can adjust my shutter speed and aperture in thirds up to 1/180 s (of course, no HSS involved). So it goes from 1/160-s to 1/180-s, in a 1/6-stop increment, but otherwise it's 1/3 of a stop, as in from 1/125-s to 1/160-s. I use E-TTL, and I can also keep doing 1/3-stop FEC adjustments without a problem.

Am I missing your point here? Basically I don't understand what you mean about being forced to work on 1/2 increments (which I agree it's limiting).

I'm not commenting on the shelf life of the 6D. For my use as a hobbyist, I hope that I'll be replacing the camera before it dies. I'm honestly curious to know what is the limitation you're pointing out.

Thanks for pointing this out. Which speedlite do you use? I would like to buy a cheap one that can still do everything. Do you have thoughts on the Yongnuo 568?