What I really want

[ktrphoto]

Canon ... you tricked us with the 1Dx. It is the continuation of the 1D line. Yes it replaces the 1Ds line, because you aren't making 1Ds line cameras any more, but the only way the 1Dx and 1Dx ii amalgamates the two lines is in going to a FF sensor in a camera with a fast frame rate. Previous developments in the 1Ds line were always significant increases in the Mp count. The 1Dx and 1Dx ii are not.

Your marketing people lied to us about your true intentions. Very foolish.

In no way does the x line replace the s line. What you have done, and it was obviously the plan all along, is that you have beefed up the 5D (better weather sealing, AF system from the 1Dx, dual cards) to produce the 5DS (r) and made it the professional High resolution line. That makes some sense, especially as landscape photographers value the lighter weight.

But it just isn't the same as using a 1-series body.

Please Canon, give us 1Ds/1Dsii/1Dsiii users what we really wanted in the evolution of the line:

i.e. Put the sensor from the 5D iv and the quiet shutter from the 5DS into a 1Dx style body, so that we can have:

• optimum resolution
• quiet operation
• tough, tough, toughness and durability
• class leading ergonomics and performance
• long battery life

please ...

If you decide to take the opportunity to go mirrorless with a body of 1-series quality that is okay with me, though I'd be more than happy with an OVF and an unchanged body design. If you go the mirrorless route you can make the body with a new lens mount (smaller flange to sensor distance) for optimally designed lenses at some time in the future, and ship it with an adapter for EF lenses.

Reality check: It isn't going to happen is it?

 

[Ian_of_glos]

Canon ... you tricked us with the 1Dx. It is the continuation of the 1D line. Yes it replaces the 1Ds line, because you aren't making 1Ds line cameras any more, but the only way the 1Dx and 1Dx ii amalgamates the two lines is in going to a FF sensor in a camera with a fast frame rate. Previous developments in the 1Ds line were always significant increases in the Mp count. The 1Dx and 1Dx ii are not.

Your marketing people lied to us about your true intentions. Very foolish.

In no way does the x line replace the s line. What you have done, and it was obviously the plan all along, is that you have beefed up the 5D (better weather sealing, AF system from the 1Dx, dual cards) to produce the 5DS (r) and made it the professional High resolution line. That makes some sense, especially as landscape photographers value the lighter weight.

But it just isn't the same as using a 1-series body.

Please Canon, give us 1Ds/1Dsii/1Dsiii users what we really wanted in the evolution of the line:

i.e. Put the sensor from the 5D iv and the quiet shutter from the 5DS into a 1Dx style body, so that we can have:

• optimum resolution
• quiet operation
• tough, tough, toughness and durability
• class leading ergonomics and performance
• long battery life

please ...

If you decide to take the opportunity to go mirrorless with a body of 1-series quality that is okay with me, though I'd be more than happy with an OVF and an unchanged body design. If you go the mirrorless route you can make the body with a new lens mount (smaller flange to sensor distance) for optimally designed lenses at some time in the future, and ship it with an adapter for EF lenses.

Reality check: It isn't going to happen is it?

I am not convinced that Canon have tried to trick anyone.
The 1Dx is a heavy duty, professional camera that can shoot at 14 frames per second - way more than the 5D mark 4, the 5DS or the 5DSR. This makes it particularly suitable for sports photography. However, in order to be able to shoot at 14 fps they had to make some compromises - such as the resolution which is lower than the cameras in the 5D range.
If you want a high resolution, professional, Canon full frame camera with a long battery life then why not attach a battery grip to a 5D mark 4, a 5DS or a 5DSR? You will not be able to shoot at 14 fps but it will give you the higher resolution you are looking for.

 

[Loswr]

If you want a high resolution, professional, Canon full frame camera with a long battery life then why not attach a battery grip to a 5D mark 4, a 5DS or a 5DSR? You will not be able to shoot at 14 fps but it will give you the higher resolution you are looking for.

It's not the same. I used gripped bodies (7D, 5DII) for a few years before getting the 1D X. The ergonomics of the integrated grip are significantly better, and the 1-series bodies offer many customizations and other features that lower bodies lack (cough…AF point linked spot metering…cough).

 

[Mikehit]

Canon ... you tricked us with the 1Dx. It is the continuation of the 1D line. Yes it replaces the 1Ds line, because you aren't making 1Ds line cameras any more, but the only way the 1Dx and 1Dx ii amalgamates the two lines is in going to a FF sensor in a camera with a fast frame rate. Previous developments in the 1Ds line were always significant increases in the Mp count. The 1Dx and 1Dx ii are not.

Your marketing people lied to us about your true intentions. Very foolish.

In no way does the x line replace the s line. What you have done, and it was obviously the plan all along, is that you have beefed up the 5D (better weather sealing, AF system from the 1Dx, dual cards) to produce the 5DS (r) and made it the professional High resolution line. That makes some sense, especially as landscape photographers value the lighter weight.

But it just isn't the same as using a 1-series body.

Please Canon, give us 1Ds/1Dsii/1Dsiii users what we really wanted in the evolution of the line:

i.e. Put the sensor from the 5D iv and the quiet shutter from the 5DS into a 1Dx style body, so that we can have:

• optimum resolution
• quiet operation
• tough, tough, toughness and durability
• class leading ergonomics and performance
• long battery life

please ...

If you decide to take the opportunity to go mirrorless with a body of 1-series quality that is okay with me, though I'd be more than happy with an OVF and an unchanged body design. If you go the mirrorless route you can make the body with a new lens mount (smaller flange to sensor distance) for optimally designed lenses at some time in the future, and ship it with an adapter for EF lenses.

Reality check: It isn't going to happen is it?

I have no idea what your expectations were but where do you think it falls behind the previous 1Ds/1D models?


optimum resolution - high-action is balance of data throughput, buffer clearance and MP/DR. I htink the assumption (reasonably) is that if you need to crop more than 25% you need to improve your skills and get closer. Do you really think they topped at 20MP for fun?

quiet operation - do you mean all round, or a better 'silent' mode?

tough, tough, toughness and durability - where do you think the 1Dx2 is lacking?

class leading ergonomics and performance - this is vague. What do you mean?
long battery life - how long do you need it? Isn't 3,000 shots enough for you?

 

[Orangutan]

If you want a high resolution, professional, Canon full frame camera with a long battery life then why not attach a battery grip to a 5D mark 4, a 5DS or a 5DSR? You will not be able to shoot at 14 fps but it will give you the higher resolution you are looking for.

It's not the same. I used gripped bodies (7D, 5DII) for a few years before getting the 1D X. The ergonomics of the integrated grip are significantly better, and the 1-series bodies offer many customizations and other features that lower bodies lack (cough…AF point linked spot metering…cough).

It would be easier/cheaper to design a high-end grip for the 5D4 than to release a 1DX2 with a 5D4 sensor.

 

[Loswr]

What I think the OP is saying – and I agree – is that the 1D X line is essentially a continuation of the 1D line, and the "amalgamation" really marked the end of the 1Ds line. Sure, the 1D X got a FF sensor, but everything else about it is 1D, not 1Ds.

Personally, I'd also like a 5Ds sensor a 1-series body, with the obvious compromise in frame rate. I don't think it'll happen, though.

 

[Orangutan]

What I think the OP is saying – and I agree – is that the 1D X line is essentially a continuation of the 1D line, and the "amalgamation" really marked the end of the 1Ds line. Sure, the 1D X got a FF sensor, but everything else about it is 1D, not 1Ds.

Personally, I'd also like a 5Ds sensor a 1-series body, with the obvious compromise in frame rate. I don't think it'll happen, though.

But this isn't new, weren't the forums filled with this same discussion when the 1DX came out? Now with the 1DX2, I think Canon has declared that, from its perspective, this convergence of models was successful.

 

[unfocused]

Just looking for something to complain about?

From what I can tell, the complaint seems to be that the 1DXII has a lower resolution than the 5D IV and the shutter is not as quiet. Big deal.

Not sure how that constitutes "tricking" anyone.

Flagship cameras are built for professionals. Professionals who value durability, speed and versatility. The 1DXII and the Nikon D5 basically mirror each other. That's because both companies have the same basic target audience in mind – and those are the people you see lined up at major sporting events with big white lenses attached to their cameras; the men and women who are running along beside our military during a battle or the folks who are there as rescue workers pick through the rubble of an earthquake.

If that's not what your job entails, then you can still buy a flagship camera and use it however you want, but you shouldn't expect Nikon or Canon to modify their lineup to suit you.

 

[Viggo]

I too think a 50-60mp 1-series with emphasis on DR and image quality, sacrificing high iso noise and frame rate, makes perfect sense. I don't necessarily buy the 1-series cameras for the 12-14 fps, but rather the ability to customize, AF-system, handling, ergonomics, VF, durability etc.

 

[dak723]

Do you really want to correspond with Canon and give them your message? Then write, fax, email, phone Canon. This site has no affiliation with Canon, so complaining here has no value.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Do you really want to correspond with Canon and give them your message? Then write, fax, email, phone Canon. This site has no affiliation with Canon, so complaining here has no value.

Or, less value, there are a few lurkers here from Canon that I've identified, but they could be just office employees with no input into design. Canon USA likely has little input into the designs either, the home office seems to be the main decision maker.

We keep hearing of 1D bodies being field tested with high mp sensors, but Canon sales people may have data indicating that the market for a $7000 high mp camera is just not there. They do seem to have a generally good record at picking winners, the original M was a example of a poor decision to sell in the US as it flopped badly. It had good Japan sales, but US buyers saw it as a point and shoot.

 

[KeithBreazeal]

I have a M5, old 7D, 5D IV, and a 5DS. The only thing that would get my attention(and $$$$$) is a full frame mirrorless based on the 5D Mark IV body design. Adding a tilt screen would be nice.
Canon knows who their market is but seriously needs to get a FF mirrorless going.

 

[ahsanford]

(cough…AF point linked spot metering…cough).

Yes? I was summoned.

- A

 

[ahsanford]

But this isn't new, weren't the forums filled with this same discussion when the 1DX came out? Now with the 1DX2, I think Canon has declared that, from its perspective, this convergence of models was successful.

That's not an endorsement of convergence nearly so much as proof there are enough reportage/sports/wildlife folks that bought a 1DX1 that Canon knew a sequel would be profitable.

The missing piece is clearly not a 5D4 in a 1DX2 framework -- it's a 5DS/R (or more likely, an on-chip ADC sensored sequel) -- in a 1DX2 framework. People with $6000+ burning a whole in their pocket (or possibly much more with very high end glass to consider) should not have to choose between the 1-series feature set OR highest resolution. They should get both and it would not be difficult to deliver: Canon has both the body/feature-set design and the high res sensor. Just marry them up.

Put a 50+ MP sensor in the 1DX2, sensibly pump the brakes on throughput/fps/buffer (say 7-8 fps) and the 1Ds3 masses will come out of the woodwork and pony up the cash.

- A

 

[ahsanford]

What I think the OP is saying – and I agree – is that the 1D X line is essentially a continuation of the 1D line, and the "amalgamation" really marked the end of the 1Ds line. Sure, the 1D X got a FF sensor, but everything else about it is 1D, not 1Ds.

+1

Agree with the OP's original premise, but I just disagree with the solution. I think there's a large pent up 1Ds3 camp that has not enjoyed the downgrade in feature set to use a 5DS or 5DS R. There's a lot more to a 1-series rig than pixels, AF points and frame rate -- 1Ds3 folks would know.

- A

 

[BasXcanon]

What you really want looks close to a Nikon D850??

 

[unfocused]

Put a 50+ MP sensor in the 1DX2, sensibly pump the brakes on throughput/fps/buffer (say 7-8 fps) and the 1Ds3 masses will come out of the woodwork and pony up the cash.

I don't buy it for a second. But, to be fair, the logical thing to do is ask Canon Rumors Forum Members what they think http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=33575.new#new

 

[ahsanford]

Put a 50+ MP sensor in the 1DX2, sensibly pump the brakes on throughput/fps/buffer (say 7-8 fps) and the 1Ds3 masses will come out of the woodwork and pony up the cash.

I don't buy it for a second. But, to be fair, the logical thing to do is ask Canon Rumors Forum Members what they think http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=33575.new#new

Thanks for setting up. Curious to see how many folks are out of that market, simply accepting it won't happen and buying one of the 5DS models.

- A

 

[ethanz]

https://youtu.be/gJLIiF15wjQ?t=49s