What's Next from Canon?

[Loswr]

Except that the last two decades have seen two of the biggest transitions in the entire history of photograhpy (AF and then digital)

...and two more stops of DR, don't forget about that!! Oh wait, that wasn't Canon. Never mind.

 

[Chuck Alaimo]

... but it is baffling that Canon does not seem to be interested in the Lion's share of that market :-\ ... surely, with their experience as a successful camera manufacturer, Canon CAN make a great mirrorless camera ... but for some reason they seem to have deliberately crippled the EOS-M. ... yet Canon ain't interested? ... are they deliberately sabotaging the market to give mirrorless a bad name? :-\ :-\

Maybe Canon doesn't own certain key patents regarding mirrorless cameras and thus don't want to be walloped into bankruptcy by a no-account company like Olympus. ;D

I wonder why you mention sabotaging. As if it isn't their right not to put resources to mirrorless...

I do not understand what you mean by: "As if it isn't their right not to put resources to mirrorless" ... but let me explain why I used the word "sabotaging":
Over the years I've used several third party lenses (Sigma, Tamron, Tokina, Rokinon/Samyang) on Canon cameras (400D, 450D, 500D, 60D, 7D & 5D MKII) and Nikon cameras (D70, D3100, D5100, D7000, D7100 & D6100), when I first got the third party lenses, everything would work well on my Canon/Nikon cameras ... but mysteriously whenever I updated to a new firmware(s), the third party lenses would suddenly not AF as well as they used to before, or the OS/VC would become noisy or the camera batteries would drain faster (when using third party lenses) ... so it is my assumption that Canon/Nikon do some "tinkering" (sabotaging) to "encourage" Canon/Nikon camera users to buy only their lenses (I suppose I'd do the same thing if I was in their shoes ... and why not). If you notice, both Canon/Nikon got into the mirrorless business with disappointing mirrorless camera models ... since Canon/Nikon account for a major portion of camera sales across the globe, they are in a unique position to give a product a good/bad name with subtle tactics. The EOS-M camera was released in June 2012 (that is nearly 21 months ago), yet there are only 2 native lenses available in most parts of the world ... the 11-22mm UWA lens is only available in just a handful of countries ... does one honestly believe that people will not want to buy that awesome small lens, which has received very positive reviews? ... something does not add up here when the ONLY 2 major players (Canon/Nikon) produce halfhearted cameras ... I cannot believe that Canon/Nikon, with their massive resources and R&D, are not capable of producing compelling mirrorless cameras ... for me the only logical conclusion is that they are not interested in the mirrorless business (as they've got far too much invested in their highly profitable DSLR business) and they want it to stay that way ... and the best way of giving mirrorless cameras a bad name is produce halfhearted ones that do not inspire confidence in the general public ... thus "encouraging" people to buy DSLRs ... therefore, the word "sabotaging". Everything is fair in love and war ... and business is war.

I wonder if they are looking further down the road than we give them credit for, and are positioning themselves for the day the DSLRs go mirrorless and that they plan to use the same EF mount and the same EF lenses.....

Quite possible ... obviously, it isn't an accident that Canon holds the numero uno position, they seem to be very clever about their business decisions. Personally, I prefer Canon cameras (with the exception of mirrorless) over any other brand ... and it'd be awesome if we can use EF lenses on Canon mirrorless cameras.

Seems to me that the lion share of the market is that other 80%!

Mirrorless Mirrorless Mirrorless...Said it before, will say it again - mirrorless needs to find it's identity. I think canon is putting very little effort into mirrorless because they don't want to take the chance in defining the market. I think canon is just waiting to see what happens, where will the market go. Let sony, oly, fugi do the R&D.

As has been talked over, the whole digital market is in flux due to the sheer # of cell phone camera users out there. mirrorless currently is trying to push this smaller lighter formula, but, will this be a winning formula or will this be the trendy thing that's the talk of the town until the next cool thing arrives? Unfortunately, for the smaller lighter concept we already have capable devises for that - cell phones. these are the folks that were buying P&S camera's. Small light and portable, yeah mirrorless systems are smaller than slr systems but but it's bigger than a cell phone, and unless you buy 1 lens and stick with it, then you've got lenses. If your a woman I guess you have a purse to put all that in, but if your a guy, and it's summer - 1 device in the pocket or damn, i have to bring that stupid hipsack....and for the biggest segment in that group, you can't send txt's with your mirrorless...so cell phones tend to win.

So, let the other's break the ground here. Canon can silently wait for mirrorless to figure out that there is a small niche of folks who just want this in it's current form. As all that is going down, canon can push R&D to get EVF and or Hybrid EVF/OVF into a standard slr form factor with stand slr mount.

 

[Rienzphotoz]

Indeed - Canon is particularly known on the market to "play it safe" and target just the "good enough" point (i.e. no fancy bells and whistles, which apparently annoys quite some users here) in order to secure a leading market position with the minimum of risk taking.

Historically, that's not how Canon became king of the hill.
They abandoned their entire library of lenses to implement the EOS system. They pioneered Image Stabilization. They were one of the first manufacturers to push heavily for full frame. More recently their supertelephoto lenses are some of the best examples of optics on the market, and as controversial as it may be here, lets not forget the video features on the 5D2.

Canon built their empire on cutting edge technology, plus their products are generally solid. I really don't think they would be where they are right now just matching the competition spec for spec.
Ever since the 90's they have been doing new and exciting things on a regular basis, that hasn't changed. What I do think has changed significantly is the way people view the industry, our definition of "regular basis" has changed. People want yearly updates now, if not monthly, whereas before waiting a few years between big announcements was "normal".
Basically people here have psyched themselves into a vortex of expectations, and everyone inside Canon is probably just doing what they have always done.
Come 2020, I'm sure a review of this decade won't be much different from the last.

+1 ... well said.

 

[tron]

Question: What's Next from Canon?

Answer: 5DMkV and 7DMkIII (I did not want to become boring with the usual next models ;D )

 

[Chiuonthat]

I like to see 6D Mark II. Improvement over the GPS/battery issue.

 

[Chuck Alaimo]

I like to see 6D Mark II. Improvement over the GPS/battery issue.

Question: What's Next from Canon?

Answer: 5DMkV and 7DMkIII (I did not want to become boring with the usual next models ;D )

Merge but delete - the 7d2 is like around the corner. 5d4 is proably still a bit away. But, given the nature of the 6d, a refresh of that may be a late 20144 or early 2015 thing ----

which I might say is quite interesting ---- how would the 6d2 look? Given the timing, would we get a peak at the features and capabilities of the 5d4 with the 6d2? Kind of like, here's something to wet your lips, now don't you want a full drink?

LOL, it would make sense for wedding shooters using either or both systems - if a 6d2 arrived on the scene in the fall of 2015, that's around when I'd probably be considering replacing my 6d, and the fall of 2016 may be when i need to replace my 5d3.

Either way, my guess is we'll see 1/2-1 year between the 6d2 and the 5d4. And given how well the 5d3 is doing, I don't think canon is in a rush to refresh that.

Another thing to consider.... the sooner the 6d refreshes the more lackluster the refresh will be (same sensor, same processor, just a few added things - nothing major - a rebel refresh as it were). if a 6d2 arrived in the summer it would be pretty much like that I'd say. But, timed with the launch of a 5d4, they could showcase either a new sensor or new processor - something that gives a preview of what to expect in both the 5d4 and the next 1d series ----if that's how things go then we're waiting cause i highly doubt we'll see a refresh of the 5 or the 1 series till at the earliest late fall of 2015 (and that will most likely be announcement of the bodies, not the launch! ----plus, summer olympics is in 2016....sounds like a perfect time for a 5d4 and a 1dx2!

 

[Tugela]

which I might say is quite interesting ---- how would the 6d2 look? Given the timing, would we get a peak at the features and capabilities of the 5d4 with the 6d2? Kind of like, here's something to wet your lips, now don't you want a full drink?

Both the 7D2 and/or a 6D2 would probably compete in the space currently occupied by the inbound GH4, so similar specs and capabilities would be in place with the main difference between the two being their sensor sizes for stills. I imagine that for something like a 5D4 they would want an improvement over that, so that it was the go to DSLR option for the serious user. That means it's video capability would have to be better, and I am not sure that current tech would allow for that. So a 5D4 might come later, after a 6D2 in the full frame segment.

 

[emko]

never used a EVF is it like the live view on the back? is it going to show blown out areas? i don't know doesn't sound so great maybe i am wrong maybe it can make some things easier to see the exposure before you take the shot just not sure how it is. How is it in low light?

 

[jeffa4444]

Gfk in December released details about the photography market that sum up a few issues. At the height of analogue (film) the companies were selling annually to a global market around 60M camereras at their peak. At the peak of digital that was 120M cameras last year overall that figure was down to around 80M. The cell phone has killed the lower end where to biggest drops occurred but in 2013 both DSLR and CSC sales declined. In Japan, some parts of Asia and in Germany & the UK CSCs do well but in North America they dont do well or much of the rest of the world. However CSCs have made great strides since 2008 and no one can say the likes of the Olympus OM-D E-M1 or the Fuji X-T1 are not great cameras they are AND they have very good lenses in somes cases as good as or better than L lenses. Then there is the Sony A7R / A7 full frame in a CSC package.
This puts Canon in a difficult position does it reinvent DSLR like Sony or does it go whole hog into CSCs which requires much greater R&D into new lenses as frankly the current offerings against Olympus are weak.
Me thinks they will focus on DSLRs first and try to bring innovation that gives them the same attention Sony is getting from the A7R which currently has a weak lens line-up compared to Canon or Nikon.

Canon are in trouble currently if they still apply tiny steps like the EOS1200 / Rebel T5 then they will lose creditability they need the next big jump.

 

[Loswr]

Me thinks they will focus on DSLRs first and try to bring innovation that gives them the same attention Sony is getting from the A7R which currently has a weak lens line-up compared to Canon or Nikon.

Sony may be getting attention…but they don't seem to be getting sales. Canon continues to get sales.

Canon are in trouble currently if they still apply tiny steps like the EOS1200 / Rebel T5 then they will lose creditability they need the next big jump.

Ahhh, yes…YAPCD (yet another prediction of Canon's doom). Thanks for that.

 

[Rienzphotoz]

Gfk in December released details about the photography market that sum up a few issues. At the height of analogue (film) the companies were selling annually to a global market around 60M camereras at their peak. At the peak of digital that was 120M cameras last year overall that figure was down to around 80M. The cell phone has killed the lower end where to biggest drops occurred but in 2013 both DSLR and CSC sales declined. In Japan, some parts of Asia and in Germany & the UK CSCs do well but in North America they dont do well or much of the rest of the world. However CSCs have made great strides since 2008 and no one can say the likes of the Olympus OM-D E-M1 or the Fuji X-T1 are not great cameras they are AND they have very good lenses in somes cases as good as or better than L lenses. Then there is the Sony A7R / A7 full frame in a CSC package.
This puts Canon in a difficult position does it reinvent DSLR like Sony or does it go whole hog into CSCs which requires much greater R&D into new lenses as frankly the current offerings against Olympus are weak.
Me thinks they will focus on DSLRs first and try to bring innovation that gives them the same attention Sony is getting from the A7R which currently has a weak lens line-up compared to Canon or Nikon.

Canon are in trouble currently if they still apply tiny steps like the EOS1200 / Rebel T5 then they will lose creditability they need the next big jump.

It does not look like you have used or own the Sony a7/R ... as nice as it is, it is no match for Canon DSLRs ... the only advantage of Sony a7/R (over full frame DSLRs) is its compact/light size ... for everything else the Canon DSLRs are superior in every way.

 

[wickidwombat]

Gfk in December released details about the photography market that sum up a few issues. At the height of analogue (film) the companies were selling annually to a global market around 60M camereras at their peak. At the peak of digital that was 120M cameras last year overall that figure was down to around 80M. The cell phone has killed the lower end where to biggest drops occurred but in 2013 both DSLR and CSC sales declined. In Japan, some parts of Asia and in Germany & the UK CSCs do well but in North America they dont do well or much of the rest of the world. However CSCs have made great strides since 2008 and no one can say the likes of the Olympus OM-D E-M1 or the Fuji X-T1 are not great cameras they are AND they have very good lenses in somes cases as good as or better than L lenses. Then there is the Sony A7R / A7 full frame in a CSC package.
This puts Canon in a difficult position does it reinvent DSLR like Sony or does it go whole hog into CSCs which requires much greater R&D into new lenses as frankly the current offerings against Olympus are weak.
Me thinks they will focus on DSLRs first and try to bring innovation that gives them the same attention Sony is getting from the A7R which currently has a weak lens line-up compared to Canon or Nikon.

Canon are in trouble currently if they still apply tiny steps like the EOS1200 / Rebel T5 then they will lose creditability they need the next big jump.

It does not look like you have used or own the Sony a7/R ... as nice as it is, it is no match for Canon DSLRs ... the only advantage of Sony a7/R (over full frame DSLRs) is its compact/light size ... for everything else the Canon DSLRs are superior in every way.

dagnabit you forgots abouts the dynamic range!!!!

 

[jeffa4444]

t does not look like you have used or own the Sony a7/R ... as nice as it is, it is no match for Canon DSLRs ... the only advantage of Sony a7/R (over full frame DSLRs) is its compact/light size ... for everything else the Canon DSLRs are superior in every way.

The sensors Sony is using is the same sensor Nikon is using in the D800 / D610 which Sony designed & made, the Olympus OM-D series uses Sony sensors, the new Hasselblad and Phaseone backs use a Sony 50MP CMOS sensor and Sony command over 60% of the high end CMOS sensor market according to Image Sensor World.

Canon DO make great sensors & I like their colorimagery the 6d and 5d MKIII are great examples of that but the fact is their sensors are still of an older design sooner or later they know they will need to move to a new wafer like Sony. No I have not used the A7/R but I know pros that have and they say the results are stunning with better resolution than Canon. The Canon 7d in technology terms is long overdue replacement its IQ is now no match for the competition dont believe me look at the DXO scores.

 

[jrista]

t does not look like you have used or own the Sony a7/R ... as nice as it is, it is no match for Canon DSLRs ... the only advantage of Sony a7/R (over full frame DSLRs) is its compact/light size ... for everything else the Canon DSLRs are superior in every way.

The sensors Sony is using is the same sensor Nikon is using in the D800 / D610 which Sony designed & made, the Olympus OM-D series uses Sony sensors, the new Hasselblad and Phaseone backs use a Sony 50MP CMOS sensor and Sony command over 60% of the high end CMOS sensor market according to Image Sensor World.

Canon DO make great sensors & I like their colorimagery the 6d and 5d MKIII are great examples of that but the fact is their sensors are still of an older design sooner or later they know they will need to move to a new wafer like Sony. No I have not used the A7/R but I know pros that have and they say the results are stunning with better resolution than Canon. The Canon 7d in technology terms is long overdue replacement its IQ is now no match for the competition dont believe me look at the DXO scores.

Ready your squirrels, everyone! DXO's been mentioned!

 

[jeffa4444]

Oh and for the record Im not predicting Canon doom Im simply stating a technology company lives & dies by innovation and by pushing the envelope not by playing safe by way of example look how the stock markets reacts when they dont like Apple incremental changes.

 

[mkabi]

Why is it that all new comers, always bring up DXO scores?

Is there no other source?

 

[jeffa4444]

OK JRISTA what measure do you want to use if DXO is "bad" give an alternative.

 

[Loswr]

Oh and for the record Im not predicting Canon doom Im simply stating a technology company lives & dies by innovation and by pushing the envelope not by playing safe by way of example look how the stock markets reacts when they dont like Apple incremental changes.

Right, because thousands of patents awarded per year, and things like dual pixel AF, are not innovative. :

Ready your squirrels, everyone! DXO's been mentioned!

Biased Scores = BS = Ballsy Squirrels.

 

[mkabi]

It does not look like you have used or own the Sony a7/R ... as nice as it is, it is no match for Canon DSLRs ... the only advantage of Sony a7/R (over full frame DSLRs) is its compact/light size ... for everything else the Canon DSLRs are superior in every way.

BTW, listen to this guy...
I don't think he is particularly brand loyal, cause look at his gear list... he has a Nikon and a Sony...

 

[jeffa4444]

Apple have thousands of patents awarded each year (the system in the US is different to Europe where it is harder to get a unique patent) but that still didnt stop the stock market marking Apple down recently. Sony also have thousands of patents every year likely as many as Canon.