What's wrong with the microadjustment?!

[Viggo]

Hi guys!

I just bought another 5d2 waiting for the 1d X.

Now the 5d I have from before I microadjusted my lenses in 20 minutes and they simply work.

But for the second one I get CONSISTENT results that are WAY different if I focus from infinity down or from MFD and up.

Goes for all lenses. If I go from mfd and up it backfocuses, and if I go from infinity down, it frontfocuses. So if I adjust to make one of the accurate, the other is completely off...

Anyone know about this and how to fix it?

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

I'd try to document it in some way, and either return to Canon for repair, or exchange it. You might also try a complete camera reset before returning it.

I generally see some differences when focusing from infinity down compared with mfd-up, so I always microfocus from infinity down. That way, I can do the same when I shoot, first focus on a distant object, then on the actual subect rather than the other way around. Once I do that, I generally don't worry any longer, because the focus distance doesn't change much.

 

[kubelik]

Hi guys!

I just bought another 5d2 waiting for the 1d X.

Now the 5d I have from before I microadjusted my lenses in 20 minutes and they simply work.

But for the second one I get CONSISTENT results that are WAY different if I focus from infinity down or from MFD and up.

Goes for all lenses. If I go from mfd and up it backfocuses, and if I go from infinity down, it frontfocuses. So if I adjust to make one of the accurate, the other is completely off...

Anyone know about this and how to fix it?

I think that's just normal and is called "focus breathing". it's because certain elements move as you go from MFD to infinity. I'd try to calibrate lenses either on the setting you know you'll use the most, or at a mid-point.

 

[Viggo]

Thanks guys, but really, this isn't problem on the other 5d nor was it a problem with the mkIV. I can't use my 24, 50 or 85 on this camera, I can't keep remembering to focus on infinity and then to the subject, it might work, but if that's the way it must be done I'm throwing it from a roof-top.

I use the SpyderLensCal, and it moves a whole, full, step, which is crazy....

 

[awinphoto]

when in doubt, send the camera into canon under warranty and have them double check it.

 

[Viggo]

when in doubt, send the camera into canon under warranty and have them double check it.

No warranty anymore I'm afraid.

What worries me is that usually I can get it somewhat useable with the LensCal, but once I get out in daylight and some distances, it's way off again. I have pushed the MA to the middle so the difference between mfd and up and infinity and down are minimal, so if they work with greater distance in daylight tomorrow, I can at least be able to use it.

Good thing this is just a temporary camera.....

Does the problem get less apparent if I adjust focus from not at the actual mfd or infnity but somewhere closer to where I have my subject placed? Maybe it's because I've started to pull the ring to each extreme when shooting the test? This isn't how I normally operate the focus, it's "always" somewhere in between....

 

[awinphoto]

when in doubt, send the camera into canon under warranty and have them double check it.

No warranty anymore I'm afraid.

What worries me is that usually I can get it somewhat useable with the LensCal, but once I get out in daylight and some distances, it's way off again. I have pushed the MA to the middle so the difference between mfd and up and infinity and down are minimal, so if they work with greater distance in daylight tomorrow, I can at least be able to use it.

Good thing this is just a temporary camera.....

ohhhhhhh bought it used? Do you have CPS? Is there any condition/situation where you can get consistent results or is it across the board off? If need be, you may have to bite the bullet with canons repair, or see if you can resell it for more than you bought it for? =)

 

[funkboy]

I think that's just normal and is called "focus breathing". it's because certain elements move as you go from MFD to infinity. I'd try to calibrate lenses either on the setting you know you'll use the most, or at a mid-point.

Focus breathing is when the focal length of a zoom lens changes slightly when the point of focus is changed...

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Thanks guys, but really, this isn't problem on the other 5d nor was it a problem with the mkIV. I can't use my 24, 50 or 85 on this camera, I can't keep remembering to focus on infinity and then to the subject, it might work, but if that's the way it must be done I'm throwing it from a roof-top.

I use the SpyderLensCal, and it moves a whole, full, step, which is crazy....

It really does not sound right. The difference should be small, if any. If a full camera reset doesn't fix it, something is wrong. There are some internal tables in the camera with lens information that can get scrambled, I've fixed my 1D MK III with a reset, but never had a issue with my 5D MK II.

I wouldn't sell it to anyone without fixing it first, you already know how much pain it has caused you.

 

[Viggo]

when in doubt, send the camera into canon under warranty and have them double check it.

No warranty anymore I'm afraid.

What worries me is that usually I can get it somewhat useable with the LensCal, but once I get out in daylight and some distances, it's way off again. I have pushed the MA to the middle so the difference between mfd and up and infinity and down are minimal, so if they work with greater distance in daylight tomorrow, I can at least be able to use it.

Good thing this is just a temporary camera.....

ohhhhhhh bought it used? Do you have CPS? Is there any condition/situation where you can get consistent results or is it across the board off? If need be, you may have to bite the bullet with canons repair, or see if you can resell it for more than you bought it for? =)

It gives the same exact results from mfd to 1m (where my LensCal is) every single time. It does the same thing from infnity, only those two aren't at the same spot.

 

[Viggo]

Thanks guys, but really, this isn't problem on the other 5d nor was it a problem with the mkIV. I can't use my 24, 50 or 85 on this camera, I can't keep remembering to focus on infinity and then to the subject, it might work, but if that's the way it must be done I'm throwing it from a roof-top.

I use the SpyderLensCal, and it moves a whole, full, step, which is crazy....

It really does not sound right. The difference should be small, if any. If a full camera reset doesn't fix it, something is wrong. There are some internal tables in the camera with lens information that can get scrambled, I've fixed my 1D MK III with a reset, but never had a issue with my 5D MK II.

I wouldn't sell it to anyone without fixing it first, you already know how much pain it has caused you.

Thanks, I'll try a complete reset, I think the guy had done that before I got it, but.

One thing is that the 5d that works have the 2.08 firmware, the "new" one has the 2.11. Is there a way to "downdate" the firmware? I think I've tried before, but can never find the older file.

 

[wickidwombat]

how are you doing micro adjust at infinity? i cant see being able to get a clear enough picture at this range

I micro adjust all my lenses at MFD 45 degrees to a calibration sheet and the zooms I calibrate at the longest focal length different camera bodys end up with differeent settings but they all work fine. perhaps examine your calibration method.

 

[Viggo]

how are you doing micro adjust at infinity? i cant see being able to get a clear enough picture at this range

I micro adjust all my lenses at MFD 45 degrees to a calibration sheet and the zooms I calibrate at the longest focal length different camera bodys end up with differeent settings but they all work fine. perhaps examine your calibration method.

I turn the focusing ring to infinity, then push the shutter to lock focus at 1 meter, where my LensCal is, I use this one:

http://www.theapplepress.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/TAP_SpyderLensCal_Square_IMG_8695.jpg

Is there a back-up clock battery in the 5d at all? *Never mind, found it*

 

[wickidwombat]

http://FocusTestChart.com

i use this chart

you can only calibrate each lens at 1 focal length (i thin the 1Dx you can do 2)
so always calibrate for where you will potentially have the shallowest depth of field

ie longest zoom and MFD

then to test infinity shoot distant targets after calibration to check

 

[Viggo]

http://FocusTestChart.com

i use this chart

you can only calibrate each lens at 1 focal length (i thin the 1Dx you can do 2)
so always calibrate for where you will potentially have the shallowest depth of field

ie longest zoom and MFD

then to test infinity shoot distant targets after calibration to check

I have three lenses I struggle very much with , 24 L II, 50 L and the 85 L II.

I just now adjusted the 50 L to -7 and it seems to be sharp at the "0" mark of my LensCal, but I take it off the tripod and shoot at something with a bit more distance (10 meters) and everything is COMPLETELY off. I just kept shooting near and farther (only 10 meters inside as it is dark outside) and ended up at +3, so what's the point of these tools. With the two other cameras it worked perfectly. SO now, at +3, it's only almost right and sharp from mfd to 10 meters, will try outside tomorrow, hopefully find something I can use. Can't understand why this camera is so difficult, when the two others were soo easy, it's the same lenses.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

http://FocusTestChart.com

i use this chart

you can only calibrate each lens at 1 focal length (i thin the 1Dx you can do 2)
so always calibrate for where you will potentially have the shallowest depth of field

ie longest zoom and MFD

then to test infinity shoot distant targets after calibration to check

I have three lenses I struggle very much with , 24 L II, 50 L and the 85 L II.

I just now adjusted the 50 L to -7 and it seems to be sharp at the "0" mark of my LensCal, but I take it off the tripod and shoot at something with a bit more distance (10 meters) and everything is COMPLETELY off. I just kept shooting near and farther (only 10 meters inside as it is dark outside) and ended up at +3, so what's the point of these tools. With the two other cameras it worked perfectly. SO now, at +3, it's only almost right and sharp from mfd to 10 meters, will try outside tomorrow, hopefully find something I can use. Can't understand why this camera is so difficult, when the two others were soo easy, it's the same lenses.

I believe you. There is something going on. You are lucky that you have other camera bodies to compare. These things do happen, send the body and one of the troublesome lenses together to Canon explaining how it works differently from the others.

Make sure you have bright light when testing them, low light can be troublesome with AF. If I get some time, i'll try to compare various light levels with AF accuracy using FoCal.

 

[Loswr]

1m (where my LensCal is)

I micro adjust all my lenses at MFD

This is really not a good idea, unless you'll always be shooting at the MFD. Canon recommends setting the AFMA at 50x the focal length, LensAlign at 25x the focal length (e.g., 5m/16' or 2.5m/8', respectively, for a 100mm lens). The reason for that is if you calibrate at the MFD, the optimal adjustment is usually not applicable across the broader focal range, whereas calibrating from a greater distance gives a result that's more applicable across the range of subject distances. The only lenses where you might want to be calibrating at such short distances are UWA lenses.

Viggo, I see the phenomenon you're describing, with the LensAlign at 25x focal length, but it's less pronounced. I generally find that as I step through the images, when approaching the best adjustment, the shots with focus starting from infinity will be off, then at the best adjustment they’ll all be spot on, then as I move away the shots with focus starting from the MFD will be off (or vice versa).

 

[wickidwombat]

1m (where my LensCal is)

I micro adjust all my lenses at MFD

This is really not a good idea, unless you'll always be shooting at the MFD. Canon recommends setting the AFMA at 50x the focal length, LensAlign at 25x the focal length (e.g., 5m/16' or 2.5m/8', respectively, for a 100mm lens). The reason for that is if you calibrate at the MFD, the optimal adjustment is usually not applicable across the broader focal range, whereas calibrating from a greater distance gives a result that's more applicable across the range of subject distances. The only lenses where you might want to be calibrating at such short distances are UWA lenses.

I dont use any of those systems, I posted the chart I print out and shoot. I usually set it at the MFd and then move the tripod back a little keeping it at approx 45 degrees usually try and have the width of the page fill the width of the frame and check that the camera is square to the page.
this way the shot is as close as possible so easy to see and change in sharpness when zooming in to check
set AF to lock onto the thick black line but check the sharpness againt the numbers down each side.
if you move too far back the angle of the lens to the page flattens significantly and the shot is smaller in the frame making it harder to see changes in clarity.
then once my calibration is set i'll take some ditance sots of the tripod then remove the camera from the tripod and take a variety of variable range shots making sure i am happy with the focus

This method seems to work for all my lenses so far.

soo many different recomendations around for micro adjust calibration though.
I wouldnt mind giveing that calibration software a try though

 

[Viggo]

1m (where my LensCal is)

I micro adjust all my lenses at MFD

This is really not a good idea, unless you'll always be shooting at the MFD. Canon recommends setting the AFMA at 50x the focal length, LensAlign at 25x the focal length (e.g., 5m/16' or 2.5m/8', respectively, for a 100mm lens). The reason for that is if you calibrate at the MFD, the optimal adjustment is usually not applicable across the broader focal range, whereas calibrating from a greater distance gives a result that's more applicable across the range of subject distances. The only lenses where you might want to be calibrating at such short distances are UWA lenses.

Viggo, I see the phenomenon you're describing, with the LensAlign at 25x focal length, but it's less pronounced. I generally find that as I step through the images, when approaching the best adjustment, the shots with focus starting from infinity will be off, then at the best adjustment they’ll all be spot on, then as I move away the shots with focus starting from the MFD will be off (or vice versa).

Did another test with the other 5d, and it's the same crap there... Jesus Christ... 4500 usd camera and lens-kit, and it can't focus from more than one distance, fantastic Canon, just fantastic.

At least this explains why I have every other shot tack sharp and the other either non-usable or "keep because it's a good picture, although it isn't sharp"

So that's what 21 megapixels does, shows you all the F A I L in autofocus and lenses. And this isn't nitpicking, it's one good and one oof image. I'll try to post an example....

*EDIT*

Here's the example, and keep in mind, this is very close, about 1,2 meters, shooting near infinity and this misfocusing are tens of meters.....