Wishlist for 6D mark II - 80D with a full frame sensor?

[unfocused]

I fully expect the 6D II to be in the 28 mp range. Canon made a mistake by putting fewer megapixels into the original 6D than the 5DIII. They ended up with an entrance level camera with better low light performance than their professional model. They won't make that mistake again.

I would also expect that the 6DII autofocus will have more in common with the 70D than the 80D, although it will likely have multiple f8 focus points to support sales of the 100-400 L with extender. Body style will remain similar to the XXD models (no joystick, etc.) Articulating screen and touch screen controls highly likely.

 

[rfdesigner]

I fully expect the 6D II to be in the 28 mp range. Canon made a mistake by putting fewer megapixels into the original 6D than the 5DIII. They ended up with an entrance level camera with better low light performance than their professional model. They won't make that mistake again.

I would also expect that the 6DII autofocus will have more in common with the 70D than the 80D, although it will likely have multiple f8 focus points to support sales of the 100-400 L with extender. Body style will remain similar to the XXD models (no joystick, etc.) Articulating screen and touch screen controls highly likely.

The only reason high mega pixel cameras are poorer at low light is due to the additional readout noise, get that down and the penalty begins to goes away. I played around with the maths a while back a realised that at about 1e readout noise things start getting interesting.

The 6D is around 2e readout, if it drops to say ~1.4e for the 6DII then for many images higher megapixels are not a serious penalty noise wise (you could down sample in post and get very close to a low-res-low-light monster.. all else being equal)

 

[slclick]

I fully expect the 6D II to be in the 28 mp range. Canon made a mistake by putting fewer megapixels into the original 6D than the 5DIII. They ended up with an entrance level camera with better low light performance than their professional model. They won't make that mistake again.

I would also expect that the 6DII autofocus will have more in common with the 70D than the 80D, although it will likely have multiple f8 focus points to support sales of the 100-400 L with extender. Body style will remain similar to the XXD models (no joystick, etc.) Articulating screen and touch screen controls highly likely.

I didn't see it at all as a mistake but an option. Better low light true but far less options for anything moving. The 3 main FF bodies are very different, then the S/R came along and muddied things up a bit...THAT was Canon playing the MP game with competitors and silencing critics. I know quite a few 6D users and they are all very satisfied. They knew what they were getting into what with center AF but were all pleasantly surprised by the iso functions. Yet no one thought it was an inexpensive way to get around buying a 5D3, it's severely less robust feature set is well known and accepted.

Different tools for different folks.

 

[Woody]

The original 6d (6Dc anyone? Just trying to upset the trolls here...). Was marketed primarily towards great image quality, bells and whistles be damned. The focus system was archaic, fps sluggish, the autoexposure unsofisticated (so I'm told) at best, etc, etc. If canon maintains this philosophy, the 6D II will probably not have DPAF, increased framrate, shutter speed or x-sync speed, and probably not have the level of sofistication in af of the 80D. It would, however, have incredible IQ, maybe even a step past what we're seeing in the 1DX II. I'm sure there will be great improvements, but I'd be surprised to see a full-frame 80D. I really hope I'm wrong here

I hate to say this, but you hit the nail on the head.

 

[rfdesigner]

I fully expect the 6D II to be in the 28 mp range. Canon made a mistake by putting fewer megapixels into the original 6D than the 5DIII. They ended up with an entrance level camera with better low light performance than their professional model. They won't make that mistake again.

I would also expect that the 6DII autofocus will have more in common with the 70D than the 80D, although it will likely have multiple f8 focus points to support sales of the 100-400 L with extender. Body style will remain similar to the XXD models (no joystick, etc.) Articulating screen and touch screen controls highly likely.

I didn't see it at all as a mistake but an option. Better low light true but far less options for anything moving. The 3 main FF bodies are very different, then the S/R came along and muddied things up a bit...THAT was Canon playing the MP game with competitors and silencing critics. I know quite a few 6D users and they are all very satisfied. They knew what they were getting into what with center AF but were all pleasantly surprised by the iso functions. Yet no one thought it was an inexpensive way to get around buying a 5D3, it's severely less robust feature set is well known and accepted.

Different tools for different folks.

I'm one.. wouldn't mind a 5DIII, but I miss very few shots due to the AF. To get me to upgrade I'd be more interested in AF spread, all cross points and the improved AF accuracy you get with the double cross of the 5DIII.

So maybe precision double cross centre + 14 single cross AF points well spread out (more so than currently) + joystick button.

I'd also appreciate better weather proofing, especially the rear "cursor" buttons which I've come across one or two people having problems with.

I could cope without anti-flicker...

What I would much prefer Canon to introduce though is an ETTR metering mode.... it ought to just be a software change (although I appreciate it could be a hardware change, it depends how they've implemented the metering)

 

[NancyP]

Yes, better weatherproofing would be nice. I love my 6D, though. I tend to shoot on manual a lot of the time.

 

[jeffa4444]

6dii will be a rebadged 5d3 with the current body size, wifi and maybe slight improvement in sensor performance.

As an owner of a 5D3 I don't want the next 6D to have all the bells and whistles the 5D3 has but just modest improvements over the current model , a a few more af points and an articulated screen with DPAF for live view focusing. A screen like that on FF would make it an awesome Macro body. No need for a gazillion focus points. Not too much so it can stay at a great price point.
[/quote
sleep easy it will not have the 61 point AF or the AF tracking in the 5D MKIII, nor will it have the 150,000 metering system. It should have the 45 point AF system thats in the 80D, retain wi-fi & *** and gain NFC. It will likely have a 24-28MP sensor with more DR and if it gains all of those things it will be a major upgrade.

 

[bergstrom]

why can't canon take some of the brilliance of the sony α7S II and incorporate it into their cameras, like seriously great high iso performance with little noise. what do sony sensors have that canon ones don't? And more focus points please too for 6dII.

 

[bdunbar79]

I fully expect the 6D II to be in the 28 mp range. Canon made a mistake by putting fewer megapixels into the original 6D than the 5DIII. They ended up with an entrance level camera with better low light performance than their professional model. They won't make that mistake again.

I would also expect that the 6DII autofocus will have more in common with the 70D than the 80D, although it will likely have multiple f8 focus points to support sales of the 100-400 L with extender. Body style will remain similar to the XXD models (no joystick, etc.) Articulating screen and touch screen controls highly likely.

The only reason high mega pixel cameras are poorer at low light is due to the additional readout noise, get that down and the penalty begins to goes away. I played around with the maths a while back a realised that at about 1e readout noise things start getting interesting.

The 6D is around 2e readout, if it drops to say ~1.4e for the 6DII then for many images higher megapixels are not a serious penalty noise wise (you could down sample in post and get very close to a low-res-low-light monster.. all else being equal)

You realize smaller pixels have LESS read noise right? I think you mean shot noise.

 

[bergstrom]

ah ok, the iso of the video is unreal though.

 

[K]

I fully expect the 6D II to be in the 28 mp range. Canon made a mistake by putting fewer megapixels into the original 6D than the 5DIII. They ended up with an entrance level camera with better low light performance than their professional model. They won't make that mistake again.

I don't think they will do 28MP, but I agree with your thinking. They should. The massive number of enthusiasts who bought the 6D will appreciate the higher megapixels more than the pros.

Higher megapixels vs low light - megapixels wins in the market place. People love megapixels. Canon was too practical with the 6D sensor. Higher MP count will be a bigger draw than low light performance.

I would also expect that the 6DII autofocus will have more in common with the 70D than the 80D, although it will likely have multiple f8 focus points to support sales of the 100-400 L with extender. Body style will remain similar to the XXD models (no joystick, etc.) Articulating screen and touch screen controls highly likely.

I think a FF 19pt system or something thereabouts is what Canon will do. I can't see 45pts happening unless they cripple the processing and AF logic. Too strong of AF challenges higher end bodies. If you had a choice between incredible AF or high FPS, AF wins because shooting 10 out of focus shots a second accomplishes nothing. It's the combination of slow FPS and weak sports/wildlife AF that protects the 5D and 1D series. Although, Nikon has no issue putting a high end 51pt AF system in a $2K FF body....nor 2 card slots.

It's the same reason Canon won't put a 2nd card slot in the 6D2. Another negative to add to the list for pro work. Controls is another factor. Joysticks and AF selectors are great to get good photos fast. Time is money, and that's a pro-ish feature. Won't be found on the 6D2.

Add all these up, and serious folks won't consider the 6D2. Which is what Canon wants. No cheap FF Canon for pro work. Pay to play with 5D series.

 

[jebrady03]

6dii will be a rebadged 5d3 with the current body size, wifi and maybe slight improvement in sensor performance.

As an owner of a 5D3 I don't want the next 6D to have all the bells and whistles the 5D3 has but just modest improvements over the current model , a a few more af points and an articulated screen with DPAF for live view focusing. A screen like that on FF would make it an awesome Macro body. No need for a gazillion focus points. Not too much so it can stay at a great price point.

sleep easy it will not have the 61 point AF or the AF tracking in the 5D MKIII, nor will it have the 150,000 metering system. It should have the 45 point AF system thats in the 80D, retain wi-fi & *** and gain NFC. It will likely have a 24-28MP sensor with more DR and if it gains all of those things it will be a major upgrade.

re: "it should have the 45 point AF system that's in the 80D"

...

You do realize that if it had the AF module from the 80D, the spread of AF points would be TINY within the frame, right?

As an example, take a look at the Nikon D5 and D500. They LITERALLY transplanted the AF module from the D5 into the D500. Now, look at how much coverage of the frame the AF points have on the D5. Now go and look at the D500. In the D5, the coverage looks pretty normal. In the D500, it basically goes to the edges of the frame. Now, reverse that scenario. You have an AF module that takes up a normal amount of space on an (even smaller than Nikon's) APSC sensor. You move that APSC sensor into a FF camera. VERY minimal coverage across the frame. On the upside, it should track in the center of the frame like a BEAST! In fact, it would be the camera with the densest AF point coverage, for the area it managed to cover.

 

[j-nord]

I fully expect the 6D II to be in the 28 mp range. Canon made a mistake by putting fewer megapixels into the original 6D than the 5DIII. They ended up with an entrance level camera with better low light performance than their professional model. They won't make that mistake again.

I don't think they will do 28MP, but I agree with your thinking. They should. The massive number of enthusiasts who bought the 6D will appreciate the higher megapixels more than the pros.

Higher megapixels vs low light - megapixels wins in the market place. People love megapixels. Canon was too practical with the 6D sensor. Higher MP count will be a bigger draw than low light performance.

I would also expect that the 6DII autofocus will have more in common with the 70D than the 80D, although it will likely have multiple f8 focus points to support sales of the 100-400 L with extender. Body style will remain similar to the XXD models (no joystick, etc.) Articulating screen and touch screen controls highly likely.

I think a FF 19pt system or something thereabouts is what Canon will do. I can't see 45pts happening unless they cripple the processing and AF logic. Too strong of AF challenges higher end bodies. If you had a choice between incredible AF or high FPS, AF wins because shooting 10 out of focus shots a second accomplishes nothing. It's the combination of slow FPS and weak sports/wildlife AF that protects the 5D and 1D series. Although, Nikon has no issue putting a high end 51pt AF system in a $2K FF body....nor 2 card slots.

It's the same reason Canon won't put a 2nd card slot in the 6D2. Another negative to add to the list for pro work. Controls is another factor. Joysticks and AF selectors are great to get good photos fast. Time is money, and that's a pro-ish feature. Won't be found on the 6D2.

Add all these up, and serious folks won't consider the 6D2. Which is what Canon wants. No cheap FF Canon for pro work. Pay to play with 5D series.

Unfortunately I think you are right. Even though Canon can, they won't be adding 'pro' features. They will intentionally cripple some aspects like AF and fps.

 

[Drum]

There is always the 9 cross type points system out of the 60d. This would satisfy the canon desire to keep the pro- market separated and also give an 800% increase in the points of the AF system !! Canons incremental upgrades would not suggest anything more than 22mp, however DR could be increased but I wouldn't bet on it. Like all here I would love to get a full frame 80D but it will not happen, my money would be on an FF 60D

 

[NancyP]

Nope. I love low light, and 20 MP are fine for me, an amateur who has no intention of printing larger than 13 x 19"

 

[jebrady03]

There is always the 9 cross type points system out of the 60d. This would satisfy the canon desire to keep the pro- market separated and also give an 800% increase in the points of the AF system !! Canons incremental upgrades would not suggest anything more than 22mp, however DR could be increased but I wouldn't bet on it. Like all here I would love to get a full frame 80D but it will not happen, my money would be on an FF 60D

I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but I don't recall Canon ever going backwards in the number of AF points with the next iteration of a line. Also, with regards to using an APSC AF sensor in a FF camera, see my post above. The mere suggestion of doing such a thing demonstrates a major lack of understanding when it comes to AF systems.

 

[Woody]

Like all here I would love to get a full frame 80D but it will not happen, my money would be on an FF 60D

Yup.

Was totally disappointed when 6D was announced years ago... with a miserly 11 AF point and single cross type. Still, I got the camera and was OK with it.

History is likely to repeat itself.

 

[jeffa4444]

Canon already has the specification locked off and almost certainly the 5D IV will have new features which will allow the 6D MKII to add new features including some the 5D MKIV may not get as was the case with the 5D MKIII and the 6D (6D better low light performance, Wi-Fi & *** built in, interchangeable focus screens)

I think the 6D will get moved up to compete with the Nikon D750 so my bet is on a new AF system based in principle on what they put into the 80D but with the wider spread for FF. I think they will break their phobia about articulating screens on a FF camera and were see flicker detection & maybe built in timer for long exposures. It will retain wi-fi and *** and add NFC. All this coupled to a new sensor (even 20MP but with better DR is an advance) and Canon would have improved the original without compromising the 5D MKIV.

 

[gregorywood]

Even the Rebel T6s (750D) has a 19 point (all cross type) autofocus point spread.
I have no idea which autofocus system they will put into the 6D mark II, but I don't see it being lower performing compared to their cheapest new cameras.

So whatever system gets put inside, it should be a huge and massive step forward compared to the current 6D system.
I expect all of their new cameras from now onward to have the new sensor technology too.

Yes, 19 point all cross type autofocus is what the 7DI had too... and it worked very well. Not too many points to pick from when doing single point manual selection.

I still have (and still love) my 7DI. I typically only use it outdoors since getting the 6D a couple of years ago. I see them as complimentary tools for different environments and purposes. At some point, I'll likely upgrade both, most likely skipping next gen and upgrade on the third gens.

 

[gregorywood]

The original 6d (6Dc anyone? Just trying to upset the trolls here...). Was marketed primarily towards great image quality, bells and whistles be damned. The focus system was archaic, fps sluggish, the autoexposure unsofisticated (so I'm told) at best, etc, etc. If canon maintains this philosophy, the 6D II will probably not have DPAF, increased framrate, shutter speed or x-sync speed, and probably not have the level of sofistication in af of the 80D. It would, however, have incredible IQ, maybe even a step past what we're seeing in the 1DX II. I'm sure there will be great improvements, but I'd be surprised to see a full-frame 80D. I really hope I'm wrong here

The role in the product line is an "entry level full-frame". To that end, it will evolve to have a set of specs that land it below (well below) the next position (in this case the future 5D4). With that being unknown at this point other than speculation, it's unlikely in my opinion that you'd see a full frame version of the 80D as that may risk cannibalizing sales of the 5D4.

It's fun to wish and speculate, so I think what we will see is better AF, slightly more DR, more MP and some bells and whistles yet to be identified. A kick in the FPS by a frame or two might be a possibility.