Your crop vs your full frame camera.

[jeffa4444]

Ive almost stopped using my crop camera except in specific areas such as wildlife and airshows, the IQ and overall perspective difference to my mind is more pleasing and I would be reluctant to buy a replacement for my 7D but not for my 6D.

 

[Maiaibing]

Many of you have or have had a crop sensor camera and a full frame camera. Asking specifically about portraits: Do you see a huge difference? Does your lens choice vary that much? Say a person has an EF 85mm 1.2L or EF 200mm f/2L... would you hesitate to use those lenses on your crop sensor camera for portraits? Maybe someone has examples of those two lenses on both a crop and full frame camera of the same subject? Thanks!

By far the greatest difference is your skills as photographer and quality of lens you use. Whereas the difference in camera almost always will be impossible to eyeball in a portrait shot.

A lot has been written here about the DOF effect of the 1.6x form factor. The difference is there for sure - but
I challenge anyone here to claim they can blindtest if a 85mm f/1.2 portrait shot is taken with a specific form factor sensor.

Side-by-side you will in some cases be able to tell. But often you may not even in this case be able to see the difference.

Now, so why do I then myself prefer shooting my own portraits with a FF sensor? This has to do with the added flexibility, more megapix available, better noise and easier retouch I can do with the FF raw file.

I think that for many who prefer shooting FF the last considerations mentioned above are in fact the important ones.

 

[East Wind Photography]

Sporgon I completely agree with you one shutter speed/ISO. That is why I addressed ISO originally, but it was dismissed later by someone comparing DoF and it cannot be dismissed.

Just so we are all on the same page with this, and not comparing different points, would you agree that:

DoF at F2.8 on a crop is ~ the same as the F4.4 on FF? Just over a full stop.

The ISO performance of same generation and product tiers of FF camera's have at LEAST that much ISO improvement over crop? I think some would argue 2 full stops, but we don't even need to go that far to be equal.

Also, at no point am I addressing the point of diminishing returns here. I cannot compare the value of anything beyond my own definition of value and to some the value of cost/reward for a crop may make crop the perfect choice for some.

What I am trying to make clear is that even if a crop camera is going to give you 99% the performance of a FF (again value/cost/diminishing returns ignored because we are just sticking to performance and the purchaser will have to decide individually if the cost is worth it) that at no point are you GIVING UP performance and possibilities going to FF.

Does that make sense?

I sometimes find the comparison more difficult when one must crop the ff image to equal that if the crop sensor. It is nice to have the advantage of being able to get closer to the subject using FF. However it is much more difficult to get closer to some subjects and so cannot fill the frame like one wants. Zooms help but most of them have their own issues that degrade the IQ.

The reality is that unless you are pushing the envelope, you would not be able to tell the difference between say a 7d2 and a 5diii image unless you start pixel peeping.

 

[Arty]

I used an 85 F1.8 on a 6D and a T2i at the same children's museum and took photos of my grandson. The visits were a few weeks apart. You get more detail with the 6D, but that doesn't necessarily make for better portraits. On a T2i, the 85 mm lens gives you the field of view of a 135 on full frame. I was able to get the sort of shots that would need the 135F2 on full frame.
Detail was not quite as good on the T2i, and that is an understatement. However, finest detail may not always be needed when photographing a kid.
The differences are there, but if you looked at the photos in an 8x10 photo or on an IPad, I am not sure that they would seem that large. For large prints, the format matters, as it does for landscape and architecture. The biggest differences are when the light gets low and ISO needs to be high.
I found the 85 was a bit too long for indoor photos on crop, and would give me head shots. If that is what you want, an 85 is fine on a crop. It worked better outside. A 50 on crop gives you the same view as an 85 on full frame.

 

[scyrene]

Has anyone mentioned vignetting? Some people dislike it, but it must add to the 'full frame look', given how much of the edges are cropped out on a smaller sensor.

 

[East Wind Photography]

Has anyone mentioned vignetting? Some people dislike it, but it must add to the 'full frame look', given how much of the edges are cropped out on a smaller sensor.

Not much of an issue these days. If you use canon lenses, it can be corrected in camera or in post with most of the popular editing tools. Many third party lenses are also supported in most editors.

 

[Pookie]

Asking specifically about portraits: Do you see a huge difference? Does your lens choice vary that much? Say a person has an EF 85mm 1.2L or EF 200mm f/2L... would you hesitate to use those lenses on your crop sensor camera for portraits?

No. No. & No.

Many on this forum will tell you otherwise, but most of that is just confirmation bias. Having made an investment in converting to full frame, it can be difficult to admit that the differences are marginal.

Owning both of these lenses I can say I would never hesitate using either, but the truth of the matter if given the choice... I always grab a FF over my crops.

 

[scyrene]

Has anyone mentioned vignetting? Some people dislike it, but it must add to the 'full frame look', given how much of the edges are cropped out on a smaller sensor.

Not much of an issue these days. If you use canon lenses, it can be corrected in camera or in post with most of the popular editing tools. Many third party lenses are also supported in most editors.

I meant it as a positive thing. I suppose you can add it in afterwards, but you get less with a crop camera. I'd almost always leave it in for portraits.