Further talk about the fate of the EOS M system

toodamnice · Sep 2, 2020

This is surprising considering how popular the M cameras are.

twoheadedboy · Sep 2, 2020

It seems stupid to release another M body and then kill the line. People interested in an M body are not just going to auto-upgrade to an APS-C RF day 1 when it comes out. If they really are putting out a "Cadillac" M body later this year, then I hope there will be a couple of lenses as well, and the APS-C RF gets pushed back another year or two to late 2022 or 2023, allowing more space for the RF 5DS and 1D equivalents to hit first.

Del Paso · Sep 2, 2020

It would be a strange decision to abandon such a popular system, especially after having introduced the M 6II...
Not convinced M users would rather buy a much bigger APS-C R model.
An EOS 7 DII (future EOS R) user isn't the usual clientele for the M system, and the EOS 90 D no replacement for the M 5 or 50.
Extreme compactness still is THE argument for the M, and, for some, it's disadvantage.
And stupid me was just saving money for the coming "uber M"

Andy Westwood · Sep 2, 2020

I think it will be a shame if the little compact EOS M system is killed off and this will leave a gap in the market for a small enthusiast setup, unless of course Canon has something better up its sleeve to replace the EOS M with

Mt Spokane Photography · Sep 2, 2020

A replacement using a RP mount makes sense. It can still be a small camera, but it would simplify production to be able to have common components. You might even be able to use FF lenses or APS-C lenses on FF bodies. It never made sense to have two different and non adaptable lens systems.

SteveC · Sep 2, 2020

So no new EF-M lenses expected in 2021? A body possibly expected in 2021. And the series will eventually die.

I think an awful lot is being inferred here. There weren't any new lenses this year, either. And everything will die someday. It's obvious M development is on hold while R is a priority, but I think now that the R5 and R6 establish that Canon is still a company to be reckoned with their attention can turn to other matters.

Stu_bert · Sep 2, 2020

not on a 2021 roadmap doesn’t bother me if they refresh m bodies in 2020. Also as CanonRumors stated, that roadmap hasn’t been refreshed due to Covid. The m sells well, but I don’t think the segment needs it refreshed as often.

Not on a 2022 roadmap would be more significant.

Love to see how Canon thinks it can offer M users a migration to R - no option to take lenses, batteries and in fact anything.

Remember they may have plans but those change, and even if they do eventually decide sometime in 2022/3 to cease development well any M kit you have will continue to work well for many years to come.

Pierre Lagarde · Sep 2, 2020

There is more risk of readers being bored to death with these rumours being relaunched over and over again...

CanonFanBoy · Sep 2, 2020

This is where the armchair Monday morning “CEOs” who have zero insight into Canon’s internal market research tell us how stupid Canon is while making the case for how things would be much better for Canon if forum experts were running things.

zonoskar · Sep 2, 2020

toodamnice said:
This is surprising considering how popular the M cameras are.

If they make equally priced APS-C RF mount camera's and a small line-up of APS-C specific lenses, I don't see why the new APS-C RF line wouldn't be equally successful.

Jasonmc89 · Sep 2, 2020

I know there’s a lot of love for the m system out there and there are some really, really good bodies, but I honestly can’t see it lasting much longer. Always felt like it was a mirrorless stop gap until the real mirrorless cameras arrived.

Stu_bert · Sep 2, 2020

Mt Spokane Photography said:
A replacement using a RP mount makes sense. It can still be a small camera, but it would simplify production to be able to have common components. You might even be able to use FF lenses or APS-C lenses on FF bodies. It never made sense to have two different and non adaptable lens systems.

Even when the average M user is never likely to buy an R body costing twice as much, and lenses costing twice as much? I think M users are less interested in upgrading to the more expensive R/RF ecosystem. I discount people here as being representative of the larger M segment.

And if Canon does drop it and only gives me the option to ditch all my kit, then when I come to having to replace my Ms as they’re no longer repairable, if Canon doesn’t offer significantly better than Fuji then my M funds will go to them.

Philrp · Sep 2, 2020

The M mount is 47mm in diameter and the RF mount is 54mm in diameter.

An APS-C RF mount cameras could be as small as the M line.

They would just need to add some smaller designed RF lenses.

Great news!

timmy_650 · Sep 2, 2020

I don’t think canon knows what they will do. I think they have ideas but they are smart enough to sell things that consumers want. If the M is still selling well in two years, they will keep it alive. They don’t have to spend much on development

PureClassA · Sep 2, 2020

Mt Spokane Photography said:
A replacement using a RP mount makes sense. It can still be a small camera, but it would simplify production to be able to have common components. You might even be able to use FF lenses or APS-C lenses on FF bodies. It never made sense to have two different and non adaptable lens systems.

EXACTLY! The M system is popular because of the size. And if Canon can create a uniform lens mount system across ALL lines AND still make subcompact, M sized RF mount APSC bodies, there is no reason to maintain the M line. Because people who want small cameras largely dont care whether the name is M or RF so long as they are comparably small. We have not yet seen one single RF-C lens yet. But they are probably going to be very compact like the M line, even if the throat is 7mm bigger. If Canon feels they can maintain or grow their market from M to RF-C, then they will. The cost savings and profit potential would be much better.

Now the first RF-C will probably be standard sized bodies like a 7D replacement. But it wont be long before we see some subcompact RF-C bodies moving into M territory. Canon seems to have little to no interest in making M lenses, but they are cranking out glass and patents for RF like water from a broken hydrant

PureClassA · Sep 2, 2020

Philrp said:
The M mount is 47mm in diameter and the RF mount is 54mm in diameter.

An APS-C RF mount cameras could be as small as the M line.

They would just need to add some smaller designed RF lenses.

Great news!

And the flange depth is only 2mm difference, which is nothing

Boblblawslawblg · Sep 2, 2020

Well, I'm just gonna say it - this is dumb. Apparently if you want a decent camera now, you will need to buy into a system with Super Expensive lenses. The R system is nice, but I'm just trying to take photos of my cats in the back yard or of my friends doing dumb stuff. Just really personal mementos. I would never buy a FF camera, its too expensive. An RP with a 50mm f/1.2 is damn near $4k. An M6ii with a 32mm f/1.4 is well under 2k.

Lowest quality body with a fast 50mm $4k.

Highest quality body with fast 50mm equivalent $1750.

For $4k I can get a body, a 22mm, a 32mm, a 56mm, a 15-45mm zoom, a 65mm macro and a 18-200mm zoom with a bag and warranties. For what I'm shooting there is no need for more.

Ill buy the new M flagship as long as it checks the boxes and then I'm done for the next decade if this is the choice. Ill wait for the R brand to come down and buy them second hand so Canon can eat it. This is an anti consumer move that limits choice.

twoheadedboy · Sep 2, 2020

Boblblawslawblg said:
Well, I'm just gonna say it - this is dumb. Apparently if you want a decent camera now, you will need to buy into a system with Super Expensive lenses. The R system is nice, but I'm just trying to take photos of my cats in the back yard or of my friends doing dumb stuff. Just really personal mementos. I would never buy a FF camera, its too expensive. An RP with a 50mm f/1.2 is damn near $4k. An M6ii with a 32mm f/1.4 is well under 2k.

Lowest quality body with a fast 50mm $4k.

Highest quality body with fast 50mm equivalent $1750.

For $4k I can get a body, a 22mm, a 32mm, a 56mm, a 15-45mm zoom, a 65mm macro and a 18-200mm zoom with a bag and warranties. For what I'm shooting there is no need for more.

Ill buy the new M flagship as long as it checks the boxes and then I'm done for the next decade if this is the choice. Ill wait for the R brand to come down and buy them second hand so Canon can eat it. This is an anti consumer move that limits choice.

The point is an APS-C RF body would necessitate cheaper APS-C-only lenses of the sort you mention. The benefit would be if you wanted, you could also use regular RF lenses on that body. And you could pick and choose. And eventually get a full-frame body if you were really serious about it. But wouldn't have to. There is no path for M users to become more serious about photography other than ditching the entire system.

Boblblawslawblg · Sep 2, 2020

twoheadedboy said:
The point is an APS-C RF body would necessitate cheaper APS-C-only lenses of the sort you mention. The benefit would be if you wanted, you could also use regular RF lenses on that body. And you could pick and choose. And eventually get a full-frame body if you were really serious about it. But wouldn't have to. There is no path for M users to become more serious about photography other than ditching the entire system.

And the lenses I bought already - FML I guess. They got my money, no need to support the product anymore. AND thats why I'm out. I'm looking at a bunch of lenses that I'm being told to GFMS with. If this was the case they should have never put out an M6ii. Why put out a camera you won't support lens wise for more than a year? Thats a POS move in my opinion. If I do go FF, which Im not planning to, it most likely wont be with Canon.