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From an email
Canon is working on a pro video camera that has a 1x APS-C CMOS sensor able to capture up to 120hz or full frames a sec. Fab specs show 12.1MP. The body will be similar to that of the XL H1 with an EOS mount fully manual controls. Canon is working on 2 lenses for the system launch that have quick video AF motors and be compatible with Instant AF like their current video line. One will be a wide starting at 16mm and the other will be a tele zoom starting at 70mm.
While I can't directly comment on the dSLR video modes being restricted, I believe they are lowering the options for this system to be launched sometime in 2010. Other specs on the firmware of the camera are: 720p 60,30 1080p, 24, 30 and 60. EF and EF-S lens compatibility including Teleconverters. Will not work with Sigma as the mount communication protocol is somewhat changed, those lenses will have to be sent in for an updated firmware. Tamrons seem to be unaffected or at least not mentioned. The video format will be a flavor of MPEG 4 with a roof at 56Mbits/sec. Work is being done on a video RAW format that will be 12bit only, and will need a special IO module separate from the default package.
While no pricing has been set, they target under 8k for the base system with the 16mm WIde and 4k or more for the IO module with uncompressed SDI Out and USB 3.
Storage system will be based on the CFast Spec! One Slot Only.
More info available as things progress.
Don't expect EOS vDSLRs to get any better at recording exotic frame rates or get manual control.
Specs may change but I'll keep you updated.
cr
I believe Red One is APS-C sized so it’ll be interesting with this as competition.
I don’t think it’s a reason not to remove 5d mkii and 500d manual control restrictions as any serious video photographer would must rather have this than an awkward 5d mkii (which isn’t much fun to hold whilst making video).
If they don’t do it, Nikon will just do it themselves and win over yet more Canon DSLR users…
That is a good move, instead of putting video recording function in machines with different interface from current videocorders, why don’t simply put large sensor in their pro filmcorder bodies, in terms on developing cinematographical potential, this is the best move to win larger markets.
As for those users with DSLR and dreaming for better functions and let their camera becomes uber device, their needs can still be fulfiled as development goes on, its just like you can do some casual filming with compacts and do some more serious filming with camcorders, overall speaking I reckon the picture is promising.
hmmm… but dSLR owners are the people who actually know what all the manual settings do. it makes MORE sense to have NO automated video control in a dSLR and ONLY manual control. people who own dSLR’s want to control all the elements of the image they capture, that’s why they bought the big awkward thing in the first place!
that then clearly distinguishes the dedicated video cameras from the dedicated stills cameras.
I’d hardly refer to the 25fps used by PAL systems worldwide as “exotic”!
Saw no rating on the veracity of the rumor. But it would be a good sign that Canon
is merging at some level the Camera and video divisions to the benefit of their multimedia
customers. Question is can they assemble a prototype by this years NAB and stop Red
from eating their lunch? Again I have a heavy investment in Canon glass, so being able
to gain full functionality for Highdef video production would be a big plus.
Fingers Crossed.
12.1mpix would be enough to capture 4K resolution. Maybe that’s where the “pro” camcorders are heading…? (leaving normal DSLRs with “just” Full-HD to avoid competition)
The lenses sound interesting… An EF-S 16-70(?) IS USM and an EF-S 70-300(?) IS USM?
These would probably have ring-USM to avoid AF motor noise while recording.
Maybe the 16-XX will be the replacement for the 17-85…
These lenses could also be used for faster AF in Live-View mode and therefore would enable Canon to build a camera with an EVF if there’s demand for it.
Your thoughts?
“‘exotic’ framerates”?! WTF? 30fps is /exotic/. 29,97 and 25fps are standard. Canon is the one forcing wierd framerates on us, but I honestly didn’t expect them to do anything to improve the video features in the 5D. I stopped believing ages ago that they have any concern for customer satisfaction, and they’ll suck every last penny out of you even if you despise them for it. And it works. I despise them, and they make money. :-)
“Don’t expect EOS vDSLRs to get any better at recording exotic frame rates or get manual control.”
wtf?
The devil of it is that the physical technology and knowhow and market exists at/for Canon to build the dream machine for film makers. 35mm over sampled sensor, frame rates are limited only by memory configuration and cooling. Store Video in a variety of image qualities limited again by amount of memory and processing power. But most importantly
is the options for control systems. Canon could put 802.11n in the camera. Control for exposure and focus could be done with a live video stream of the “Live” display from an iPod touch or iphone.
This would allow the industry to have custom software written for all forms of tricky camera movement, depth of field, programed rack focus… options just plain unlimited. Not to mention using other sensor inputs….(my mind boggles…) With canon’s huge range of lenses and companies like Sigma, Zeiss, and others Canon could overturn the video and film industry they have been nothing more then a bit player in for years.
As far as audio goes it’s silly to go to any effort to try quieting servo noise, in the real world you just don’t ever use on camera mics. Just add a few xlr inputs. Then you use Lavs, or shotguns, or any of a hundred off camera or mounted isolated mics.
A guy can dream can’t he?
Despite the e-mail seems to be from unknown source (so far), and thus not rated and may be partially or complete false,
“If they don’t do it, Nikon will just do it themselves and win over yet more Canon DSLR users…”
That is correct.
Let’s see what Competition makes, and probably forcing Canon to give manual control for video on DSLRs…
But I wouldn’t expect manual control in 500D, is an entry level camera with a new feature.
It would make much more sense to give manual control in Video mode for 5D Mk II, wich is used by professionals, and costs more than 3 times a 500D.
Competition is a big force to make pressure, along with customers requests/claims to Canon, because customers unsatisfied means they could switch to Nikon if Nikon offers what they are requesting to Canon and Canon gives no response.
Not hard to see at all.
Editing with MPEG-4 SUCKS!!! Really bad thanks to the GOP structure.I have had to edit a bunch of stuff from the 5D Mark II. Pretty image… crappy workflow!
real videographers DO know how to shoot manual and do it all the time and actually do know what all of the manual controls do. Believe it or not we actually crave manual controls. Its the reason we buy big expensive video cameras in the first place. it just that we.ve been stuck in small sensor land for the last decade and want the full freedom that SLR guys have had for a long time. oh wait, most of us are SLR guys that shoot video too
wtf is all of this crap…. a bunch of it is in russian?
Oh nice. Sigma lenses will be broken again. I am glad I didn’t buy any.
Nah, not buying into that theory. The XL-H1 and all the camcorders combined are like flees on the behind of the DSLR market, and sorry, but Nikon and most of the other DSLR manufactures (except Sony) have no camcorder market to protect, and Canon will not allow them to leap ahead just to protect their 8K camcorder.
The replacement of the XLH1 will do just fine because it will offer superior control of audio and have better output options than the DSLR’s.
The reality is there is room for great HD video in both DSLR’s and dedicated Camcorders, and smart videographers and photographers will use both depending on their needs, and possibly together. I can see shooting a wedding with a HF S10 and a 5D MkII as the 2nd camera for 100% digital workflow.
The workflow for MPEG-4 only sucks if you’re using a Mac or Premiere or other software-only editing packages.
If you use the Grass Valley (Canopus.com) HDSTORM, or HDSPARK which come with Edius Pro 5 you can edit in Real Time right off your flash card in full HD, with real time output through HDMI to an HDTV, with no waiting for conversion or transcoding or rendering. oh, and you can even mix in other formats (AVI, MOV, etc.) and it is still real time editing and output in full HD.
Edius Pro 5 without the hardware card is also available, and I use it on a HP laptop for location editing, again with no conversion or transcoding it will take native Canon HD MPEG4 files right off the SD Card, but you dont get real time output/preview.
No thanks, I’d much rather take even the fixed lens scarlet for $3700 with up to 150fps at 3K resolution :)
http://www.red.com/epic_scarlet/
I disagree. Some of us still want to use the 5D2, mainly for the look that can be achieved with the full-frame sensor.
We can only hope such a beast is more than a rumour. Shame they didn’t go Full Frame from the 5DMKII though. A 6MP FF sensor to me would be optimal for video with large photosites but heaps of oversampled resolution for even 4K.
MPG4 is not hard to edit because it is Long GOP, it is hard to edit as the codec itself is very processor intensive. MPG2 is long GOP and nowadays very easy to edit. While I appreciate the potential of 54Mbps AVCHD and don’t mind if they include it, I’d still want a longer form simpler to edit codec for those jobs that just don’ require pristine quality (most weddings/school concerts…). For those type of jobs the 35Mbps XDCAM EX MPG2 format is great. Not to much data to back up, not difficult to edit and nothing wrong with the image quality. At least you can stick a nanoFlash of this concept of a camera.
Dave: Can’t imaging shooting a whole wedding with a 5DMKII, the eurgonomics blow. With no image stabilisation you’d need a tripod or stedicam all the time. Single slot limited record time? The list goes on. Nice camera, not suited to that task though. Can be used in some locations on a wedding though (brides house/location shoot).
Guy, I use the Grass Valley HDSTORM with Edius 5 (Core2Duo 2.8) and it handles AVCHD in 1080P right off the flash card from my Canon HF10 (it’s my second cam – soon adding a 5DmkII to the mix), and I can mix it with video from my XHA1 on the same timeline, no conversion, no rendering, no copying files onto the hard drive, no waiting, and I can preview it right off the timeline via HDMI on my HDTV before burning off a Bluray or DVD.
I hear on the wedding 5DMkII video issue. I’d never use it as my primary, just as a 2nd or 3rd camera for some nice shallow depth potrait looks.
lol…yea, Ive been tempted a few times, but Ive managed to stay away
Perhaps the HDSTORM has some AVCHD decode acceleration which is not a standard feature in most computers. I have 2 PCs, one a Dual Core Core 2 (laptop T9300 2.5GHz) and one a Quad Core 2 (Quad 2.66GHz), neither will play back a 5DMKII file without stuttering. Perhaps its a codec issue on my systems. I am sure they used to be not now…
In my NLE (Liquid 7), which is a pure software solution, playback is even worse and render times to other codecs is insanely slow. L7 is a fantastic HD MPG2 native editor though.
It’s a combination of HD hardware on the HDSTORM board and the Edius software that is designed to edit mixed format and mixed codec video, I can mix AVCHD, MT2, H264 and AVI all on the same timline with no rendering or converting. The hardware card makes it realtime though.
My laptop is a 2 ghz core2duo (3 ghz is recommended) and Edius will load 1080p AVCHD clips and roughly scrub thru them with no conversion, but it will not play the video in real time from the timeline without rendering it first. So I only use the laptop for quick and dirty HD location stuff, or to downsample the video. It handles SD video on the laptop with no troubles, 720p is almost workable. I suspect a faster laptop would do better, maybe when Core i7 laptops hit the market it would handle HD better.
I put the HDSTORM card into a 2.8 ghz core2duo desktop and WOW! NO waiting for anything. I pop in the SDHC flash card to the reader, open the Edius file browser to it, load in the files direct to the timeline, and instantly hit play and watch it on my HDTV, edit with no waiting, and render out to various formats much faster than anything else I’ve seen. In fact, a friend of mine and I went to shoot some stock sunsets in Laguna, when we got back I was outputting edited samples by the time his Mac Pro was finished importing his clips just so he could start.
CANON GIVE US MANUAL CONTROL OVER THE F-STOP ISO AND EXPOSURE!!!!
FRAKK
sorry for cursing :)
Okay, so we’re talking about a sensor the size of an APS-C. But there are a few flavors of APS-C as wikipedia would have us believe “Sensor sizes range from 20.7×13.8 mm to 28.7×19.1 mm” (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APS-C). What would the exact size of the sensor be?
Luvvit when Redone sets the fire under canon’s a$$
Both those systems should play back stutter-free. Look online for guides, but basically your systems not configured correctly. I’ve used it on a T9300 no problem.
Could you be more specific TomH? What have you used on T9300 and in what format?
Are you referring to playing back native 1080p AVCHD files from a camcorder with no conversion straight from the flash card or rendered or converted 1080p AVCHD files? For instance, FCP on the Mac has to convert the 1080p AVCHD files when it imports them before you edit them.
Sure I can output the file into H264 or WMV and play them on the laptop no problem in a player, but we’re talking about real time editing the native 1080p AVCHD files without having to convert them first.
Full frame 35mm wouldn’t matter when you are taking a 2.40:1 or 1.77:1 (16:9) crop, keeping the width only. But either 35mm or APS-H would be good formats to use. APS-C would be close to the picture frame on Super35, so it still wouldn’t be bad. I just hope the video resolution is 4K with 2.40:1 aspect ratio, and offers 24p AND 60p, with downconverting to 1080p (with 16:9 crop).
It bugs me that 25p is falling into this “exotic frame rate” category you’re speaking about. Almost all continents of the world (other than USA and JAPAN and who else did I forget?) are used to that exotic frame rate. Just because 25p can be slowed down to 24p without too much of a sluggyness hit Canon are afraid the pro video users will favor the DSLRs instead of pro video cameras. That’s just very weak reasoning of them.
ANY CONSUMER VIDEO CAMERA should be able to switch between 25 and 30 fps. Period!
And as for the full HD 1080p, Canon should drop it all together since (obviously) the sensor doesn’t read the light fast enough for it, producing tilted, leaning and ever wobbly and stretching videos as soon as something moves. Hey, it’s barely fast enough for 720p, maybe that’s why they’re interpolating and not capturing in true 720p? To gain some sensor speed so the tilting/leaning sensation isn’t so obvious.
Other than that, what AMAZING image quality! It’s the first digital video camera I’ve seen that doesn’t scream “diigiitaal”. Very cool :)
So are there any facts to back this rumour up…or is it just wishing ?
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