PowerShot Fun
The announcement of the SD4000 is pretty significant to the PowerShot line. It definitely tells us what else is coming down the pipe.
It uses a 10mp backlit CMOS sensor. This will apparently greatly improve high ISO performance.
I was told the sensor was made by Canon, I’m just trying to confirm it through other sources.
I had a chance to play with one for a few minutes today at the Canon booth.
The camera I shot these with was NOT a final production model.
These are High ISO sample images. Click for the full resolution images.
They aren’t pulitzer shots, but it should give you an idea what this little camera is capable of.
The shots were shot at 7.5mp and not the full 10mp. I only had about 20 seconds with the camera.
More to come later.
cr
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Pretty good high ISO!
(3200 Looks much better than my G11.)
“The camera I shot these with was NOT a final production model”??
Very nice to know the sensor is Canon-made — I had rather suspected it was a Sony.
Those shots look pretty darn good for the ISO given the sensor size.
So… let the speculation begin that this back illuminated CMOS technology will make it into the 60D and that will be its “major new feature”.
That would rock big time.
Sometimes before a camera starts shipping, there’s a firmware upgrade.
It isn’t shipping yet, so it’s not a finalized product.
Not bad on the noise front – if over processed. More concerning is the hazyness of the images, so soft…probably as a result of attempting to the noise down.
Still nothing to write home about, but getting there. Slowly.
Isn’t this the same as the ixus 300 hs?
Fantastic! It’s illuminated from the behind! Why all the fuss? It’s a compact camera with the worlds smallest sensor stamped with a buzzword..
For the small c mos sensor
it look 8 in the scale of 10
and is good to now
60D whit back illuminated CMOS
is this straight out of the camera? looks like noise ninja was run on the image.
wel it seems the camera sharpning was way to strong there but it looks quite good to bad theres not a 6400 or 12800 shot just to see the difference.
if the artifacts in the shots are in fact noise it atleast makes the noise a lot more apealing to look at.
I’d like to have seen the 400 and 800 ISO shots as well. Those would tell us how well it holds up in more typical use for a P&S.
The backlit sensors are going to be in demand. After seeing the backlit APS-c sony images at ISO 12800, its at least a 1 stop improvement, maybe 2 stops.
Two stops is a huge amount, particularly in a point and shoot, where you often have slower lenses.
I gotta admit, it bothers me that that this camera is capable of higher ISO than my 450D, but then again so does my G10. If I didn’t have a 7D to make me feel better, I might just lose it lol….
I kinda feel bad that I DIDN’T know this.. But what show/convention is this at?
+1
Here you go…
http://www.canonrumors.com/2010/05/henrys-show-tomorrow/
Only about 2 hours away from Buffalo NY. I could of made it if I called off of work… Sure I don’t have the “Enhanced License” I would of been able to get into Canada but not be able to come back home.
Hmm, what is that guy with a Nikon plastic bag doing at a Canon counte?r :-D (ISO1600) Is he regretting his purchase already?
Agreed. It’s mush, which is either Digic IV over-processing (meaning the ISO capability is overstated), or the lens is rubbish.
My guess, a combination of both.
Click on the picture, download the full thing, and look at the hair on any of the people in the bottom picture – absolutely no fine detail at all.
So my summary is, a 10MP camera that at high ISO, makes pictures worth seeing at 1MP or less (the size that fits onto a web page nicely.)
lol.. yeah noticed that too..
and in the same picture, did you see the 4 guys ogling at the girl at the booth..???
orgy anyone..? rotfl..
btw..
what’s the deal with the asian dude with the blue shirt..? is she with the girl..? staring straight at her on both pictures..
creepy..
how much is this gonna leave a dent on my credit card..? $400 like the G11..?
i’ll the the Sony NEX-3 or NEX-5 for additional $150.. :-p
True but look at the letters on the wall behind them. Resize the image to 1MP and tell me if you can read that still. Certainly I agree that it’s not going to give you that much detail although I’m impressed that at 3200 this is getting that much… perhaps the noise processing is killing off what little (if any) of the finer hair details it might have captured.
Better than any P&S I’ve used but I really haven’t followed how they are on noise these days. Either way, colors are fairly good at this ISO too but you are definitely not walking away with 10mp of detail between the noise, noise reduction & everything else.
A backlit sensor. Canon continue to be at the forefront innovations and I guess the same for Sony. Nikon is sadly building on established technology an drelies on others to build their sensor. The future is between Canon and Sony.
US$349 at amazon.com.
Maybe I’m just not familiar with the high-ISO capabilities of most compact cameras these days, but those results do not look very impressive to me. BTW, I would encourage people to make sure they’re viewing a 100% crop when they click on those samples (click on the image once to enlarge it–which looks pretty good–and then click on it again to enlarge it to 100%). All kinds of noise, even at ISO 1600. The S90 (which I don’t own) seems to be a better performer based on the samples I’ve seen. Someone correct me if I’m wrong.
I can see Sony buying over Nikon during my life time. BTW, I’m 65.
next time use f/5.6 and 1/80sec instead of f/2 at 1/640sec ;)
bah, so our expensive 1d mark IV missed this technology .. :(
This results are insanely good when you consider that the sensor is 8times smaller than an APS-C sensor like the 7D or something like that.
I guess I need to get out more. :)
its not just a buzzword. back illumination places the circuity on well, the back, letting more light hit the photosites, giving better response.
IIRC
and not its not the smallest sensor…every technology has its place in the product line up. no point going arnd dissing a lil compact coz it doesnt have the performance of a medium format camera
Hej, yes, I think on a compact clean 100-400 is way more important than 1600 ISO. Especially that the sony sensors don’t have a clean 150 ISO while they start being good from 400.
understand people that technology is ever changing. what you have now be it 7d 5dmkII 1d series in your possession will be converted into a powershot compact camera in a year or two with the the same features still intact so don’t be surprised. we have to set our sights and our expectations for the eos series higher than this. things like HDlcd, stitch assist in EOS cameras, 10-20 fps, 25-32 mp. why not nikon already has 24.5 mp for their D3X
“SubjectDistance – 64.40 m”
Wow, this is new in the Canon cams, Subject Distance is embedded in the EXIF. The latest firmwares for the 5D2 & 7D also have this, dunno if the older cams saved this info as well…
some clean shots:
http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=145&modelid=20024#ModelFeaturesAct
Hej, shouldn’t look better, there must be too much diffraction at F5.6, maybe F2.8 is where you get the best quality.
In my 50D has also subject distant(can be view in adobe brige)
Hope we see it in G12 and f/2 fast lens(great for underwater)
I agree – in terms of noise these images are brilliant, very little noise, just a tad of grain – and a compact too.
But they are very, very soft…
Which is either the lens – bad focussing or as you suggested overprocessing.
is that the camera canon is going to compete against Sony NEX3 and NEX5 … I’ll laugh my ass off :D
looks like ixus 300hs to me
Not everyone is so brand loyal that they ignore what manufacturers of other brands are doing. Some are even more interested in the actual product and what it can accomplish, rather than what brand it is of.
This fanboyizm goes beyond childish Canon vs Nikon, AMD vs intel, windows vs mac, nvidia vs. ATI, Leafs vs Cannucks arguments etc etc, this “us vs. them” is really what fuels international conflicts and war (e.g. Israeli vs Palestinesm, Protestants vs Catholics). Please be rational and empathic, see the other side. It helps everyone and will make the world better. Amen.
IMAGE QUALITY IS CRAP. looks like my mobile cam…..
Embrace a bit of humor and it will make the world a better place :) Amen.
Just a note:
The sensor is not from Canon.
It is the second generation 10mp BSI sensor from Sony, which is already making the rounds in premium compacts from Fuji and Nikon.
Canon does not have a BSI technology.
As I posted above – this is the 2nd gen Sony BSI sensor already found in premium compacts from Fuji and Nikon.
The info from the CR guy is inaccurate.
The sensor is a 2nd generation Sony BSI sensor.
I agree about the techno moves, but still refer to these P&S’s as expensive paperweights. They’re especially nice for replacing grandma’s Instamatic. “Just turn it on and press this button, Grandma.” She still looks confused.
Any chance to see a self portrait? Hehe.
It would be nice to put a face to the mysterious CR GUY Curiosity killed the cat…
really, it shouldn’t considering the sensor size differences. my g11 looks a lot better at ISO 3200 that the sd4000 does.
The quality of a Canon 1D Mark IV picture at ISO102400 looks like my cell phone too. So why buy a 5000$ cam when you can get the same pictures with a 10$ cell phone? :P
can you answer this question? cookie?
Agreed :)
Holy heck! For a 1/2.3″ sensor, that ISO 3200 is impressive, especially when viewed at 100% on an XGA monitor!
+1
Please provide some proof.
That the sensor was Sony made was my first guess. A quick google did not turn up any further details.
Do you have a link to further info?
btw: Here is the Sony press release to backlit sensors: http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/200806/08-069E/index.html
Did Canon develop something similar and call it “back-illuminated”, the term used in the press release? Or is it indeed as you say a Sony sensor?
A Sony sensor at the heart of the “high-sensitivity system, known as Canon’s HS SYSTEM, with a CMOS sensor and bright f/2.0 lens”? They go a long way to puff the new Canon HS System for it to have a Sony at the heart of it, but that could well be marketing speak at work. Sony sensor + Digic IV + f 2.0 = Canon HS system?
I am interested in getting some clarification on this point.
Prove it.
Guys, dont forget it’s still a P&S camera :D yeah it’s not sharp but whose standard do you want to compare this camera to??
Most of users will post their photos on FB or use them in a digital photo frame, for these sizes, the photo is overall very nice. And for this category of user, taking the photo to capture the moment and the memory, and share them with someone is what really counts in the end.
Yes, please provide some proof!! this is the 3rd or 4th time you post the same line, we dont know or dont have much time to research it ourselves! enlighten us!
a Canon CMOS BSI sensor? really?
not the famous Sony BSI CMOS(same caracterisitscs: size ans nb of pixels)?
If yes, that’s a good new, because Sony don’t propose “larger” BSI CMOS as Canon could need for GXX or SXX serie (1/1,7″). if canon can make their own BSI CMOS, they can make it at the size they need.
But all this have to be confirmed. Canon use usualy Sony sensors for their compacts… i would not be surprise if this sensor is just made by Sony
What is really creepy that there are people like you might that kind of assumptions out of nowhere.
Hot model, I’ll say!
It is indeed.
Americas – PowerShot SD4000 IS
Eurasia – IXUS 300 HS
Japan – IXY 30 S
Don’t Sony have the patent for Backlit sensor?
So if Canon are making this they would have to pay a royalty.
“The shots were shot at 7.5mp and not the full 10mp. I only had about 20 seconds with the camera.”
Oh, yeah, thanks alot CRGuy for deleting my post with the EXIF data pointing out that it was actually a 7.47MP 16:9 image and subsequently correcting your original post without acknowledging the error. Way to go.
uhm.. what assumptions..?
can’t you see the (?) at the end of every sentence..?
much like this.. it’s all questions..
no assumptions made..
your reply, FAIL..
lol..
Several companies, but not Canon have announced development of back-illuminated sensors. Most are aimed at the cell phone industry.
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0910/09102701toshibabackilluminatedsensor.asp
It is entirely possible that this is a Sony sensor, however, Canon likes to keep thiings under wraps so we may see an announcement.
Although competitors on one level, the Japanese Companies work together and cross license patents, and supply components and software to each other. as far as i know, every LCD display on the rear of a Canon camera comes from Sony. open up your camera, and the LCD is clearly marked with the Sony brand name.
thanks for clarification
more news?
So push the exposure of a RAW in software…that’s what ISO3200 did on the T1i.
Gotta remember this is still a compact; even if hypothetically the sensor was as good as an DSLR’s, the lens contains what, a tenth of the glass? You can’t expect the same performance.
“More to come later…”
Article was written on 14-May-2010.
Today is 17-May-2010. Still nothing.
I guess that’s all there is to the mini-Henry show in Ontario, Canada.
Would I be right in assuming the picture of the camera was shot with another Canon? Looks orange to me! I really don’t care about any more pixels, just sort out every Canon D-SLRs inability to shoot red…please.
If the improvement on such a small sensor is only a stop or so, will the improvement on a much bigger APC-s size sensor be worthwhile or even noticable? I do hope so though i expect the answer is No.
In wish land I also hope its the next 60D sensor, and maybe if the back lit sensor is better with smaller pixel sites, then the 60D will have say 24MPixels, but with pixel bining for smaller files if needed and inbuilt sensor zoom as a feature for lower Mega pixel resolutions.
Deleting such constructive posts is bad webiquette, driving people away from a web site.
is that red? look like orange to me :)
I know right.
Yes, shot with an LX3-imitator, err, S90 according to the EXIF metadata.
Heck, it should be orange or that’s pretty crappy white balance considering the white stool in the background :P.
WTB more 60D rumors.
a guy named ‘Spoiler’ often gives good tips. Mr Spoiler, where art thou.
that looks more red to me:
http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=145&modelid=20024
As other posters have said, Canon never announced development of a BSI technology.
Also, they never presented a BSI technology on any of the international semiconductor forums, where companies typically announce such technologies.
Finally, their patent portfolio does not have any BSI patents either.
Cano will never announce which sensor they are using. This can be found out by tearing the camera apart.
Here’s how ChipWorks, for example, found out about the Sony 2nd generation sensor in the Casio EX-FH100 camera:
http://www.chipworks.com/ExilimEX-FH100-Teardown.aspx
Now, compare the specs of the Casio EX-FH100:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/1001/10010606casiofh100h15z2000z550.asp#specs
… with the specs of the IXUS 300HS:
http://dpreview.com/news/1005/10051101canonixus300hs.asp#specs
According to Dpreview, both cameras have exact same image size (3648 x 2736), exact same video rate (1280 × 720 @ 30fps), and other exact same specs.
If the IXUS 300HS sensor was indeed manufactured by Canon, this would have indicated that:
– Canon secretly came up with quite capable BSI technology without anyone in the world knowing about it
– Canon’s secret BSI sensor all of a sudden has the *exact* same specs as the Sony 2nd gen BSI sensor
Still, if anyone wants to believe that Canon did make this sensor, I fully support their belief.
Take care.
there were major improvements in iso with the 550d!
Asking those kind of questions out of the blue is equally creepy.
Is team MARK II made out of plastic too?
Any idea when this camera will be available to buy in US?
amazon takes preorders but does not give a deadline …
This camera is so compact. I like it.