*UPDATE* Read This if you’re interested in the 5D Mark II firmware 2.0.4 apparent issue.
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/885884/
Thanks for the link wickerprints.
Nothing is broken
After reading some comments and talking to folks, it turns out this is normalĀ behaviorĀ for a Macro lens.
Explanation From Dave
If these people bothered to dismount their lens, and just look through the barrel when changing focus, theyāll notice that the 100mm Macro does this even when not mounted to any camera. All Macro lenses do thisā¦the Aperture Diaphragm closes down as focus approaches MFDā¦this is what people refer to when they say that the āeffective apertureā is smaller at macro distances
Now there is still some disagreement in the comments section whether or not it’s truly normal. I have sent a mail into Chuck Westfall in regards to the issue.
CR’s Take
The people critical of me posting this as fact need to see the “?” after the title of the post. I was questioning whether or not there was actually an issue and letting people discuss it. My technical expertise on the subject is lacking and I was seeking an answer.
Stuff like this is worth discussing and having a record of.
In the future, I’ll make it more obvious that I am asking, not telling.
Thanks!
cr
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thanks for the update.
OK. Good. Thanks.
Thanks for following up with this, CR Guy. I’d be very interested to see Chuck Westfall’s response and a better technical understanding of exactly what is happening.
As we replied to Dave’s comment, he is referring to a very different matter.
Lot of people didn’t read carefully enough our report and didn’t see the videos. So they posted comments that are in fact not about the issue.
We take this very seriously, we do not want to post anything wrong or inaccurate, so we took our time to test and to ask many professionals.
It’s not a “one man” report at all. Several professionals of video have already tested and reported to Canon, and they are not “newbies” indeed.
This IRIS behavior is not normal, no matter it is a macro lens or not.
Video tests and full description of the problem and details included in the report are very comprehensive.
But people need to read with care and time.
Why do you keep mentioning Video Professionals..
How many times in the past have Video Professionals used Macro Lenses for video??
Just take a look at the Zeiss Master Macro lens series… ok it’s for film cinematography but you get the point.
Because video professionals have tested this a lot.
Maybe it might sound “new” for stills-only users, but it’s not new at all for serious amateurs and professionals who shoot video with the 5D Mark II…
Unfortunately most readers of CR didn’t read or understand the original report well enough, and only read what was posted here.
As CR Guy told, the FULL REPORT is on the blog at: http://5dmark2.wordpress.com
If you take only the brief comment posted here you won’t understand what we are talking about.
BTW, we did take our time to test, unmount, see “through the lens”, and re test lenses… We take it seriously.
CR – You’re correct and I agree with your careful analysis. Besides, it’s good for those using macro to be knowledgeable about their gear, specifically the behavior of a lens while focusing. Think tack sharp.
LOL! since when this site became canonBUGSrumors ?! X)
Anway, I’m happy that we don’t have anything to worry about. :)
From what I understood (and saw from the video), this issue only exists on the 5D and the T2i and NOT the 7D. If this is the case then how could Dave’s explanation above be true? Also, I have been using the older 100mm maco lens on 7D without having these issues.
Please don’t take this as criticizing Dave but rather seeking understanding. I just ordered this lens for my 7D, and if this is going to be an issue, I need to send it back before the return date expires!
I confirm that Iris doesn’t change this way in Macro lenses; no need to test this, but I tested my EF-S 60 to be 100% sure.
Regarding CR’s take on this, I’d have to agree with his analysis about macro movement (aperture linked focusing) and Dave’s knowledge concerning manual adjustment. Sometimes it’s difficult for others to think tack sharp when their minds are so narrowly focused using a shallow DOF. As usual, CR Guy is forced to moderate with patience and understanding. Good thing he’s running this site. Thanks for the work.
If people just looked at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CG9hSZBXXfo&NR=1
Looks like a bug to me, atleast when i turn the focus on my 100mm its smooth with no sudden twitch/change.
I just checked my 100mm macro L, and it indeed does stop down.
However, to see it clearly, look thru the rear of the lens, not the front. Its barely apparent from the front, but very visible from the rear.
Its built-in to the lens, and happens on all cameras, video or not. Thats the way the lens works.
CR, don’t be hard on yourself. The site is about Canon rumors not specifically Canon hardware rumors, just “Canon.” This qualified squarely as a rumor.
Good reporting, put it there.
You’re right I should have been more specific.
How many times in the past has those video professionals used photo macro lenses for video
Good job for those who ranked negatively all our post here…
Sorry, but this ranking system is useless if such amount of people use it in a wrong way.
Almost nobody understood what the problem is about.
Maybe Dave didn’t see all the full detailed report and the 2 (two) videos carefully enough.
What Dave has “explained” is not what we reported and it’s a completely different thing.
Maybe he doesn’t have a 5D Mark II to test with.
Most people like to give theoretical explanations, but don’t spend enough time testing.
We did test, a lot, and do know our gear well enough, this IRIS behavior is not normal at all. Just check the report and the 2 VIDEOS, and NOT ONLY a brief description.
Check this video and see by yourself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaOnN3aZO6E
Do someone really think that IRIS behavior is “normal”?
But, posting with this new ranking system is almost a waste of time, since some “smart” guys will rank it negative and hide it from others….
This great site would get lot of benefit if a moderator is implemented.
Dear Mr/Ms ‘5D Mk ii Team’,
Please understand that no matter how well meaning, well thought out or well presented your responses or contributions are to the canon community, they become shrill after a while.
Frequent viewers of this site will have heard your endless trumpeting of how you had a show in pressing Canon to release the new firmware/do something. Or maybe you would say ‘oh we werent praising ourselves we were THANKING EVERYONE for their efforts’. but seriously it gets old.
I understand and give you the benefit of the doubt that you arent being self-laudatory and just wish to share in the joy of the community by telling everyone you did something, or that you found a bug, and that you just wish to be the voice in the wilderness that puts pressure on canon
However, frequent participation in debates and the language you use creates a subtle but noticable effect in which people start seeing you as a self-praising, arrogant, shrill and simply ‘OMG-ITS-ME-AGAIN-IM RIGHT-IMGREAT’ snob.
dude, whether you are right or not, lay off a little. if you are right, time will tell. if your ‘professionals’ are awesome, we will all know.
no need to come in guns blazing and being all defensive. there is a fine line which you have crossed in many people’s subsconsious, the line between a logical defense of an opinion and a shrill insecure 12 year old who wants to be right all the time
Thank you
The problem is not in the lens itself, is how the camera controls the iris.
This issue can also extend to some other lenses, especially 3rd party ones.
Dave’s explanation is referring to another thing and NOT to what we describe and show.
If people spend a bit more time reading the full detailed report, then would understand much better and wouldn’t speculate so much.
I’ve already seen it both ways, and obviously it becomes tighter, but continuously, not in the “discrete” way you can see in the videos about the 100L.
Again, it’s not a normal behaviour.
The board is fine the way it is.
Well said.
Team 5D? Not really a team player. Sad.
The comment rating system works fine. Your ramblings are getting down rated for a reason.
“…frequent participation in debates…”
OK, I agree this may upset someone, but
“…and the language you use…”
??? frankly, I don’t understand this statement. They/he/she have/has always been extremely correct and polite. Many folks here are not native English speakers (including myself), so sometimes what they/I write may look rather academic or haughty. Just be a bit more understanding and tolerant.
“if you are right, time will tell.”
Perfectly agree. So I’m waiting. What about 5D2 Team proving right concerning this supposed bug? Would any of the faultfinders apologise and thank them for their efforts and extensive testing?
Personally, I appreciate their enthusiasm, since I’m a 50y old lazy ass… :-)
Peace!
you can say whatever you want about ‘5D Mark ii team’ if you don’t like the way they talk but at least their doing much more than just complaining online like most people do
lot people on this board usually dismiss what they say, i don’t
they reported bug on 2.0.3 and now reporting another, that doesn’t look bad to me
they even ‘politely’ request more improvements for still shooters like me. that’s something very few people do, but most of us want to have on our 5d2, and i really like that
why do people complain so much when others try to do something?
i looked the 5DIITeam post carefully and their right, Dave’s explanation is telling a different thing. people is confusing the normal loss of light when focusing to macro with that abnormal iris movements when focusing on manual video mode.
it’s pretty clear to me, can’t understand why so many are speaking about MFD charts when this is about another stuff
“In the future, Iāll make it more obvious that I am asking, not telling.”
You mean like putting a gigantic question mark at the end of the original “5D Mark II Firmware 2.0.4 Faulty” post?
Oh wait… there is a question mark there. Silly us.
I just posted a video on YouTube showing the problem is NOT due to a macro lens design.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APgK5gdM69M
Also, please follow the thread I started on Fred Miranda, clarifying the nature of the problem:
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/885884/
I’ve seen some comments here downranked for idiocy, and some for arrogance. I believe many of your posts fall in the latter category, as they come off a little foolishly confident, and as a result can seem untrustworthy. Just my two cents.
MFD ā MTF charts
Maybe if you stop naming yourself “5D Mark II Team” people may start to take you a bit more seriously and stop rating you down. Just a thought…
Great explanation & video – This is a quick “jitter” issue, and totally unrelated to the slight blade movement that one sees while smoothly adjusting focus manually. I’d be interested to see what affect this has on the actual image. Seems odd – I also wonder if different things are going on internally with metering – specifically related to the blurring & sharpening as one rotates through different focal planes – with light & dark areas changing size? Weird twitch.
Thanks a lot for posting and for your explanation at FredMiranda.
That in fact is the same IRIS behavior we have been reporting and showing in our 2 videos, that clearly has nothing to do with the above explanations of a different matter.
Now we can see it’s not limited to Macro lenses, but probably limited to firmware 2.0.4 (or maybe 1.2.4 too, since a code regarding lens communication was rewritten in that release, and possibly kept on 2.0.3 and 2.0.4)
concerning the iris behavior, I confirm it’s not normal.
there are 2 different things :
– the iris narrows mechanically (i-e even if the lens is not connected to the camera) when the focus gets narrower ; this not an electronic or electrical functionnality.
– under 2.0.4 firmware, as previously described, the iris moves by command (you can hear the sound like when you change the aperture value) when you change the focus. this is NOT a normal behavior.
Jean-David
Shut up, you got caught wrong and you’re just trying to cover “your” ass(es).
Oh and how many people are in your “team”? You and your mom don’t count as a “team”.
Frankly, matter what your “team” posts in the future it will get a thumbs down from me. Your arrogance is totally annoying and I don’t think you’re actually a “team” at all.
Where’s all the trolls saying this is the “last straw” and “if I weren’t already so invested in canon gear I’d switch!”???
Given all the evidence shown already, this is pretty obviously a bug. Either it was introduced into an earlier release but only found now, or introduced into this version… but either way it should not behave like this so I don’t see what the debate is… heck, there are more mysterious things about previous releases we could have argued about than this clear winner.
Why don’t we all just relax and lay off a little here… it’s extremely likely that Canon knows this by now and will either issue a fix, an explaination, or lose customers. We’ll certainly hear from Fake Chuck.
Flame on,
-Dave
I’m using the older 100mm f2.8 (the one that is all metal)
and I’m having the problem… from what I read it looks like all three 100 2.8 lenses have the same problem.
The old, the new and the L
tested with 2.0.3 and 2.0.4 with the old 100mm f2.8
I tend to think a jumping iris while focusing IS NOT NORMAL… I have a EOS 3, a rebel 350 and a 5D, it happens with the 100 2.8 in the 5D, the other two bodys are unafected…
on the non photographic side of things… I think it is easy to bash people on a forum… is it a reflection of how frustrating it is to live on planet earth? this is just ridiculous… the lack of respect for the other is something sad to witness… even on this forum…
if you read something you think is stupid what is the point in spending time writing to someone you don’t even see and letting him know YOU THINK HE IS STUPID! come on people… please!!
so what? who cares? why does it bother you so much?
if the information is useful, if they just try to help…
I think most of you just need to relax, this forum sometimes looks like rush hour, everybody is ready for a fist fight!!
Is that Wickerprints an alias for 5DMarkII Team?
Not normal. F2.8 all the way with my 50D.
The rating system has done a fine job of stoning the “not a trolls” which were becoming annoying.
But I would appreciate if post were not rated down simply because they say things you don’t want to here. Especially if there is a good chance that they are true.
Got scared of the ratings. Be glad!
I really don’t understand the hostility. All I did was conduct my own testing, and I found I could reproduce the phenomenon with my 5D2 + 300/4L IS. My YouTube video speaks for itself.
I made the video because I noticed a lot of misinformed comments on this topic, discussing effective aperture as the cause when it is very clearly not so. And my video proves it. My invitation to explain what is happening in my video still stands. I’d love to hear your technical expertise in explaining it.
Let’s break down this issue in very simple terms. If it happens only in one or a few cameras, then most prolly it’s caused by the body. If it happens with ALL bodies, then it was designed that way. So those manually-adjusting focus while holding the lens and looking through it from the back and front, without it being attached to the camera, isn’t addressing the same issue.
hmm seems like my comments dont get posted sometimes
anyway,
seems like even if i try to sound neutral which i really am, people misread all the time on the internet
what i am trying to say is this – i am neither bothered nor do i ‘dont like’ the ‘team’. all im doing is offering a reason, entirely neutral, of why people routinely downrank them.
its like politicians coming up to the podium and reading out complaint letters one by one as opposed to expounding on his vision and hopes for the nation.
the former makes him look weak, feeble, shrill, the latter, confident, a visionary, secure.
so what i am saying is this – what they do does not bother me. i dont entirely care what they say or do, in fact i think its awesome some enthusiasts get together and try to pressure canon into offering sth better
its gd for all of us
BUT
their approach to defending their views on the internet elicit hostile comments and infantile behavior precisely because their defensiveness subconsiously creates the image of a wannabe insecure 12 year old. they should try being less defensive and instead focus more on doing what they do best,
in short, trumpet your acheivements less, correct people less. say things once. if you are confident, time will be on your side.
thats all im saying, nth more or less, just some advice for their ‘internet image’
Or they’re using the ratings. LOL
Seems there are at least 24 people in the “team”. LOL
Dude, you’re waaaay better than the 5DII “team” and your less of a “pathetic cretin” than Mr. S.
I’ve tried the so call iris test on my EF 100mm f2.8L Macro and it shows now jitters, blade moved in and out smoothly when I turned the focus back and forth at different speed from slow to fast, don’t see the jitters or hear them like those on the video samples. So either some people here has problem bodies or they are smoking something.
Mine is fine so there might be a problem with yours.
Or Nikon trolls!!!!
I hear tell that the Noink ganja is strongly hallucinogenic… :)
I was able to reproduce the problem with my 300mm f/4 lens as well. I noticed that if I racked focus quickly, it was more likely to happen than if I racked focus slowly.
I saw a video from wickerprints. I cannot find Simon’s video. Based on available evidence, I can safely consider the video proof more reliable
Looking for and update so I can work out which firmware to update.
Has this been addressed yet or is it not an issue?