A New Philosophy?
I received a pretty detailed email today about pricing of a new pro full frame camera.
It’s suggested Canon feels they can afford to be more aggressive in pricing and we could see the 1Ds launched in the $5999-$6999 range.
Most people felt the D3x was grossly overpriced when it launched for $8000. The 1D Mark IV would received a price reduction at the launch of a 1Ds Mark IV.
cr
|
When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission. Here's how it works. |
Makes sense. Makes me feel that it wont be a revolutionary camera though.
Also, they can’t even keep up with the demand on the 1D4. I wonder why they would lower the price on it. How about lowering the price on the releases of new lenses. I just got my new 70-200 II and ouch, that burns.
Seriously though, a $6000 1Ds4 and a $4000 1D4 would be significantly more attractive
The 5DMk2 is a revolutionary camera and it was launched under $2500.
I am waiting for the Full-Frame Rebel. The 550D/T2i is equivalent to the 7D minus a few features and is going to increase Canon’s sales to those who don’t need the professional features and larger body. So, Canon must realize that a FF Rebel would add even more. I would buy a FF Rebel and 550D instead of a 7D for an equivalent price
Makes sense, as the 1d range is far to F__King expensive anyway, as a probody and autofocus cant really be worth all that extra money.
Any word on a possable release date????
The question isn’t whether Canon can afford to be more aggressive about pricing but rather whether they can afford to not be. The difference in image quality between 21MP (5DMkII at $2500) and 32MP (my guess – 1DsMkIV) isn’t that great.
$6000 strikes me as a very reasonable price for a 1DsMkIV.
But would a $4000 1D4 force Nikon to drop the price of the D3s?
The original 5D was the revolutionary camera and it was launched at $3300. The 5DMkII was derivative and it was launched at $2700.
FF for xxxD is impossible.
I will be waiting for the day where a 1d body will cost under $1000 then. :p
I know that will not happen. But unlike the consumer grade DSLRs. The 1d and d3 series cameras are designed to be top of the line cutting edge piece of photography equipment. no cost spared. Professional photographers will most likely bear the costs. Especially when low quantities comes to the equation.
Talk about mixed messages. How can Justin complain something is overpriced when turns around and purchases it?
That ties in with another rumor about the 1D MK IV saying that the price would take a big drop before June. I hope so, I would buy one.
WOW! This would be welcomed news. As I said the other day, Canon needs to be aggressive and start going after Nikon again. For the consumers the technology in the pro level cameras is critical because it trickles down to the consumer level cameras.
Canon needs to be aggressive with pricing AND with more aggressive timelines for new camera models. I hope this is just the beginning!
ww.goodwrites.com
Most of the Rebel owners don’t even know what their sensor is called..Why put a Full Frame sensor in one?
Rebels + Full Frame sensors = Much more expensive. Less sales, everyone buys a Nikon.
Cool, US or Europe, it seems US always gets the rebates.. Thanks.
Joe, where did I say the lens that I purchased was overpriced? I implied that it was an expensive purchase, which it was. And I simply meant that if Canon is considering a price drop in its bodies then maybe some price cuts in lenses could follow. When you use the term “overpriced” in a statement designed to make me seem like I’ve made an irrational choice, you discount that my perceived and actual value of the lens does not match the price for which Canon has set and which I have chosen to pay.
In short, the lens is fantastic. It is a vast improvement over my old 2.8 IS and matches or exceeds my f/4 IS in every category save the obvious, heft.
All this aside, the lens put a hole in my account, that is a fact.
With a medium format Pentax 645D at under $10K coming by the end of the year, it’s no surprise both Canon and Nikon feel the pressure to lower the price of their flagship cameras, even just a little bit.
I guess 1D4 price may start dropping if D3s goes below $5K. As for 1Ds series, I remember the price does get lower each generation. Originally it was close to $10K when the first gen came out; then 9K, 8K…
Right now 1Ds3 is just over $6K, expecting a $6499-6999 street price for 1Ds4 when it comes out – it’d force D3X to fall on pricing and give 645D a run for its aggressive price tag.
It makes sense to drop the price on the bodies and increase the price of the lenses and accessories.
Hook you, then milk you.
I wonder what the profit margin is on high end camera bodies verses lenses? Perhaps it’s similar to game consoles where the manufacturer takes a hit on the hardware, but makes up for it on the games. If Canon drops the price of the 1Ds enough that a lot of buyers end up purchasing a new lens at the same time, they might end up with a higher profit margin (and more free advertising of those white lenses walking around). Just a thought.
Interesting idea, but how would a $5999 1Ds4 reconcile with the $4999 they are asking for the 1D4? Only $1000 difference between the two seems quite strange.
Yes, but each camera has a different application. One more geared towards studio usage, one more towards sports/photojournalism. We haven’t seen the specs for the 1Ds just yet, and as mentioned above, the price for the 1D may drop when the 1Ds is released.
Also, nikon have a v good AF full frame for $600 less than the 1D4 (UK prices) I am a full on canon shooter and know it’s not always greener but jeez I need somehelp here. Canon give me a FF that will let me do events, ceremonys etc and still let me buy my kids some bread and jam…. Soon.
A full-frame Rebel is called a 5D.
I don’t get how everyone is so addicted to Canon ditching 1.6x and 1.3x crop cameras and making everything full-frame for some reason, it’s as if the current full-frame ones aren’t enough.
Those crops are there for a reason, 1.6x for smaller/cheaper bodies, and 1.3x for those that don’t need full frame but need a high FPS (sports/photojournalism).
“We haven’t seen the specs for the 1Ds just yet”
We haven’t seen any REAL pricing for 1Ds either just a typical POOMA by someone who obviously misses a dosage of his medication.
The Nikon D3s is $5200. $5000 for a FF 16MP 1D4 seems reasonable to me. The 1D4 seems overpriced largely because of its crop sensor. It also seems very overpriced when compared to the 7D.
dude just buy a camera from keh
Besides a “3D”, that could be the only thing that could get me to stay Canon. Maybe. When Nikon releases a D700S and 35 f1.4, probably both this year, I’ll be struggling to find reasons to stay Canon.
The only thing revolutionary about the 5D was price. The mk2 brought forth 1080p video; the next must-have feature.
Hate video in dslr’s personally, but I seem to be in a minority.
Totally agree.
Totally overdue IMO. The days when a FF sensor carry a premium that high should have died a couple of years ago.
Likewise the days of the $8000 DSLR should also have been over years ago.
The downward encroachment of medium format will have a serious effect on the traditional 1Ds market and the only way to open up the market for high-end FF cameras into areas that MF suffers (outside the studio) is to widen the audience. That means dropping the price. About bloody time.
Seems reasonable to me. The 1Ds is usually a higher res version of the 1D. It has a slower fps due to having more pixels. So the only real difference is in the sensor.
$1k extra might even be more than the difference between FF and 1.3 crop, as I’ve heard that $1k is the difference between a 1.6 crop and the FF.
Finally, digital cameras have been out for a while now, so it could be that $8k is starting to feel a bit overpriced in the community, especially if there are no new technological breakthroughs. Canon probably has a good sense of where people’s thinking is. After all, even the best Nikon (which is currently one of the best cameras out there) was considered a bit too expensive in the Nikon community, at $8k.
That’s the point! The current full-frame Canon cameras AREN’T enough, a concept which seems to escape all of the proponents of the 1.3x crop, despite it being explained dozens or even hundreds of times. (Are you people obstinate or just stupid?) When Canon introduces something like a Nikon D700 and/or D3s, then we’ll stop complaining.
that makes at least two in the said minority.
judging from your website content, which is excellent, you’re the kind of guy who will do equally well with Nikon as with Canon.
I’m curious you mention a 35 f/1.4 from Nikon as a reason to switch though, since Canon’s 35 f/1.4 is supposed to be one of its best lenses. what are the issues you’ve had with your current setup that make you want to hop over?
I agree, but I do think that there is room, technically and commercially, for a lower-priced FF body aimed at advanced amateurs that upgrade from the Rebels. Kind of like a 60Ds.
Such a camera will be in competition with the 5D series, so Canon will have to downgrade some features. Build quality is obvious. AF: no margin left. Resolution/pixel count: the only way is up. Frame rate: could go down. And so on. A reasonable price bracket seems to be $1200-1700.
you are not.
Chio…I don’t think this makes too much sense…
Yes all three of you are now crawl back under the rock you crawled out from.
lol its gonna cost 8k at least. They have been jacking the price up on everything…..
Sounds like someone is wishing….
there is nothing revolutionary about 5d2 except the mighty AF system from 18th century.:-))
what about the direct print button?. that´s the most revolutionary invention on a canon cam.
yes buy it from KEH
The 1Ds II was priced at nearer to 16k at release… 12-14k street price… But yeah I’ll agree they went down during their cycle and the 1ds III came out at a price almost 1-2k less then the price of the Ids II was sitting at…
IMO They need to cut the price down to keep the market open for it, I mean medium format around 10k… the jump from 8 to 10 isn’t a lot for a working photographer that needs resolution, and you’ll get slightly more dynamic range (over the mk III anyway) going down that route.
If the starting price is around 6k or so… and it drops to 5k or less during it’s product cycle… I think a lot more pro’s and rich amateurs alike will be enticed by one.
Pssshhh, for 60% cheaper, you can get 100% more quality with THE Canon 135mm f2 L lens! Real men use primes. If Jesus was a photographer, he would only use primes.
But Jesus is a Jewish bastard, not a photographer. No sense talking of “what-if?”s.
Actually, I’m inclined to agree with Chio.
Fit a 35mm sensor in a Rebel, and there’ll be complaints of “Where’s my extra reach?!”
Nikon D3x was really overpriced, especially considering it’s almost a D3 with higher resolution sensor, but not many more improvements.
If canon can release the FF 1Ds Mark IV for under $7,000 (with a good AF system) that would be very interesting indeed.
Not to mention that it will come with Full HD capabilities not included in any Nikon yet.
And also even more interesting and far beyond any Nikon, if Canon decides to include less compressed video output…
Of course those are video features (wrongly called “video”, they are more likely movie/cinematographic features), but they do matter to lot of users/customers, and Canon too because they increase market share.
Canon was working on less compressed video output, so it wouldn’t be a surprise if they do on the 1Ds4.
This. I will be amazed if this isn’t just wishful thinking. If lens prices are anything to go buy, expect this camera to cost at least 8K.
I agree with you Brett. My opinion is the AF on the 5D2 is so bad that it is hard to take the 5D2 seriously for a wedding / event photographer.
I’m will be looking at Nikon if they put the 3DS sensor in the D700, or better yet come out with a 18mp D800.
Here is what Jeff Ascough, the noted pro Canon wedding photographer on Canon’s CPN site……
“I’ll be swapping my 5D Mark II DSLRs for two EOS-1D Mark IVs. For me the 1D Mark IV is a big leap in terms of imaging technology. It was the high ISO capabilities that originally attracted me to the 5D Mark II, but with the 1D Mark IV I can now get better build quality, superior high ISO ability and a vastly superior AF system, so it’s been an easy decision to switch. I would say, hand on heart, this is the best digital SLR I have ever used.”
I’ve never really used AI Servo as I’ve never trusted it, but with the 1D Mark IV I’ve been using it on a regular basis. I’m happy to use AI Servo now in any situation with people walking towards or away from me. In many ways the 1D Mark IV’s AF reminds me of the EOS-1D Mark II N – it’s slick, accurate and doesn’t hunt or slip in and out of focus.
Ever wonder why Jeff said he manual focused his 5D2’s…..because the 5D2 AF doesn’t work.
Have you tried the new zoom? It is a special lens.
click here for 1Ds4 rumor(?)..
http://www.bc-photos.net/read.php?tid=5&fpage=85
that didn’t worked out so well..
maybe this time it would..
http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:UQgqvzyAj2AJ:www.bc-photos.net/read.php%3Ftid%3D5%26fpage%3D85+1ds3+5d2&cd=44&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a
I don’t believe it. US dollar has weakened. You’ll be lucky if Canon holds the to the traditional price on the 1Ds4 – they raised the price $500 on the 1D4, why on earth would you expect the 1Ds4 to be only $6k or $7k?
$8999 is my guess.
Or more likely:
“why doesn’t my 10-22 fit on my new camera?”
1D4 was overpriced for the incremental improvements over the 1D3. I agree when compared to the 7D it really seems overpriced. If Canon would have introduced it at $4000 nobody would have been arguing if the D3S was a better camera for the price.
What utter nonsense. Release price in US$ has been $8,000 for the previous three 1 Ds’s. Release price will be comparable for the MkIV. I would expect the price to ease a little faster than the previous versions though, but with the video capabilities it has it might not. The 1D MkIV has proven popular with its weather resistance in the video market. The bigger sensor size and commensurate reduced DOF are eagerly anticipated by many in the video field.
I agree, there is room for Canon to introduce a FF body at just about all price points.
$ entry level FF – 5DI with video(3fps & ok-good AF,lo rez),
$$ semipro – 5DIII (5fps & good AF[7D], hi rez),
$$$ small body pro – 3D (8fps & great AF[1DsII], mid rez)
$$$$ full pro – 1DsIV (6fps & super AF[1DIV], ultra hi rez)
$$$$$ holy grail pro – 1Dx (10fps & amazing AF[?], mid-hi rez)
I see no reason to stop making the crop bodies, I just want more choice than 21Mp & banding and 21Mp for 8K.
Maybe it opens room for a 26MP, 6.5fps, FF, 1D4-AF 3D at $3500.
Hate?
Nobody holds a knife to your throat and forces you to use the video feature of a camera.
that’s too many sensors and different parts I think
maybe 3 tier
(5D2 was 4fps,21MP,single DigicIV,small body,$2700)
5D3 entry-level FF – either:
1. 21MP (banding tweaked 5D2 sensor), 4fps, 7D AF/5D2 AF with x-type outer points, updated video and in-cam jpg processing from single DigicV, small body, $2200
2. 32-40MP (whatever 1Ds4 has), 4fps, 7D AF/5D2 AF only with outer points now x-type, updated video and in-cam jpg processing from single DigicV, small body, $2700
(maybe #1 makes more sense, no cheaper 32-40MP studio cam competing with 1Ds4, 32-40MP may be a lot of MP for average person on street to deal with for still and for reach they could get a 7D that is faster anyway)
3D – 6-6.5 fps, 24-28MP (24MP if 1Ds4 is 32MP and 28MP if 1Ds4 is 40MP), full 1D/1Ds4-AF, better video/in-cam jpg processing from single/dual(24/28MP)-DigicV, small body, $3400 (basically better than the 1D4 in every way but for only 6-6.5 fps vs 10fps so major action pro demons might still go 1D4 in many cases and they probably use the grip all the time anyway so the cost difference is even less between the two then) gives decent speed with decent reach, especially if it went 28MP (5D2 has ok reach with poor speed, 5D3’s above would have ok to good reach with poor speed)
1D4 – (1.3x, 16MP, 10fps) now priced $4000 (rumor)
1Ds4 – 5-6.5fps, 32-40MP, dual digicIV/V (depends perhaps if i arrives right away or next fall),large body,$6000 (rumor) (still a bit pricey in a way compared to the others for what it gives but you want MF-level MP and more than 4fps and faster AF processing i guess you pay a premium indeed)
Shows you HD video haters and Nikon fanboys never used a 5DMk2, direct print button is now double as the live view button.
They are just jealous because they use a Nikon with 5 years old technology.
Why would you need better AF than 5DMk2 for weddings unless you are shooting runaway brides? You should look at your own technique.
Agree, there are few mfg’s in same position as Canon to be able to innovate through all aspects of the development cycle. Not sure about being more agressive with their timelines, with the cost of the bodies, I would like rather the camera to be more forward looking than a megapixel or ISO bump.
Forget it, this will not happen for a long time to come.
I hope you know that sensors are made from waferplates and that you can put a lot more crop sensors on a wafer compared to full frame sensors. Then there is still yield as well.
Thats why you won’t see a full frame sensor anytime soon on a consumer/prosumer grade camera other then 5D.
I ment buying a new one and not a used one.. :p
Actually i just recieved a 1d mk 11 for about $500 from adorama. It gots some scratches but the sensor is great. it will serve as a great second body.
Then thank god that he was not a photographer.. X)
Actually reducing the price of the 1ds will close the doors for any 3d. unless the 3d is a higher camera model which doesn’t make naming sense.
I second that. It will have no natural rivals so I don’t expect it to be cheaper than its predecessor.
Simon,
I think it is up to shooting style, different AF capabilities might result in different pictures. It is what can be done vs what can be done more. Obviously technique matters, but one cannot change the AF speed.
hrm… wonder whats revolutionary bout this one… hope it records 2K video with those 2 processors…. go kill that freakin red
I recently bought a Nikon, because it was cheaper. It’s a good camera but I really think my Canons have been a lot faster and more easy to work with, so maybe pricing is just one factor when choosing model
I just love this forum. All the gossips make my waiting for the 5D3 less boring. 5D3, please come to me faster!!…oops, sorry, this is suppose to be a 1Ds topic.
I think this is what it is going to be basically – a megapixel bump, especially in the light of the new pricing. Video? Yes, but this adds nothing to its primary functions, the reason why the camera is bought for in the first place. My idea of innovation would have been the change of that oldfashioned idea of crop vs. FF. It’s time to have 1Ds to be superior to every respect to 1D-series: FF, speed, ISO, in every department. A new DIGIC with horsepower enough to provide high speed shooting, no crazy number of MPs but rather 1D@FF i.e. 27MP (who is going to say that he can make the difference between 32 vs 27? Do not forget more careful techniques are also needed plus better glass to make this 5 more MP more).
The 645, while interesting and in many ways desirable, will have absolutely no effect on Canon/Nikon pricing. No pro shooting a 1Ds4 or whatever is going to contemplate switching for an unproven slow, low-ISO system requiring huge new investment in lenses.
Yeah. Not like Ascough would know. His technique is awful. He should just chuck this whole photography lark.
The direct print button will NOT be mocked!!!!11
I don’t bother reading your posts anymore. Sorry.
Mark eleven! Awesome! Time machines are great.
You suck at photography. Get a real job son.
Noink tactic. ;)
Switch to nikon then Bob. Then you can whine about how you should have stuck with canon
Wait are you talking about the 5D AF? I think it may be older than 5 years old lol.
Ahh, but the question is: What exactly will the 5DMkIII be? It could be either more pixels and same body or same pixel count and better high-ISO with the 7D-quality focusing, weather sealing and speed. I vote for the latter.
Because it’s almost a game to get something in focus when using fast f1.2 lenses wide open at a little lower light. You don’t need to go to moving brides to recognize the issues this ancient AF brings. Beside AF, the 5D MkII is great.
Why? I’ll just buy a 7D and 5DMkII (or maybe a 5DMkIII) instead. I use a 40D and 5D now.
Kok
, I know how you feel. The next 5d2 will be on another level. So long to wait though. It’s OK. I’ve got plenty of purchases in the meantime to save for. New printer, 24TSE II, 24-70 IS if it ever gets released.
lol, jesus was a jewish bastard indeed. makes it a mystery to me why so many people believe he is the son of g-d. loool g-ds dont die nor do they bleed. loooool. i think if jesus was a photographer he would use a nikon loooool.
I love how sincethe 5D IIs AF wasn’t updated, it Is therefore unusable. Cmon. I own a 1ds III and 5D II – you know what I shot my last wedding with? A a manual focus only, manual exposure leica M8 with manual flash (580ex II) – and it was nothing short of entertaining AND successful. Why?I accept what’s available, and master it.
It’s sort of what professionals did before there were itnernet forums to form unified conclusions that are more powerful than your own thinking.
Same here, 21MP is more than enough. I’d love to have Max Auto ISO setting, a better AF system(I don’t mind if it’s not as good as the 7D, since FF might be more “expensive” to do that and I don’t want 5D3 to raise its price), definitely weather sealing. I also concern very much on the HD video feature. I hope to get double the bit rates to 80-100Mbs if not getting RAW video out. And the biggest dream of all is to see Canon re-design its “skipping lines” method into some proper downgrade video mechanism to resolve the aliasing issue.
I actually hope to see a 150-300mm F2.8 L IS USM lens made for FF.
Well, having the same cameras you mention, I wonder if this now means, that you don’t see a difference between the two? I do see one and wish the next 5D (3D or whatever) comes with something better than the previous two incarnations, whilst the 1DsIII was already way better.
But I have no clue what this has to do with you using the Leica in manual focus.
And a 250-500 f/4! Better yet would be a 150-300 f/2-2.8 and 250-500 f/2.8-4. Canon bodies seem to handle variable aperture lenses very well.
I think they video haters are more upset that, once they settle on a 5D mkii, they have no choice but to spend money on a feature they won’t use.
Why weren’t your 1dsIII and 5DII available?
A witty kid without a day job…
badass new layout CRguy.
Apparently, 21MP would have much better high ISO than on the 1D MK4. Now, this is not good for Canon, they need to have a justification to sell expensive crop cameras at the same time.
yea the new layout is spifffy.
The new layout is nice, but it could use a bit of fine-tuning. The sidebar gets in the way sometimes.
P.S. EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM is available for order at J&R in Manhattan.
http://www.jr.com/canon/pe/CAN_EF70_hy_200USM/
Because of a man by the name of Paul of Tarsus, and with the help of Constantine.
I think you mean 18-55…
completely irrelevant, but. 24-70 is backordered at my local shop……… hmmmmms. also. they have one 70-200 2.8II. its nice i must say.
You are really dropping the ball CR posting crap fanboi baseless fantasies and not noticing real rumours.
http://photorumors.com/2010/03/22/canon-working-on-a-mirrorless-camera-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-6813
This information was published in the Japanese trade journal Pen News Weekly quoting Photo Trade Express where reportedly an unnamed Canon officer said:
“Canon is proceeding with the development of a mirror-less interchangeable lens camera to compete against models launched by Panasonic, Olympus and Samsung.”
IMHO people just want that green grass on the other side and are looking for reasons to crash through the fence.
Lenses? where?
“I actually hope to see a 150-300mm F2.8 L IS USM lens made for FF”
It will be the first ever SP (self-propelled) lens, the first version will be mounted on a small, tracked vehicle. Version II will no doubt use some form of antigravity.
They were, but I had another, good shooter covering the same ground at the same time, so I did an exciting trial. It reminded me to stop complaining so much about my 5D IIs AF, in the end.
I can’t believe Canon would lower the price of the 1d4 when it’s in such short supply as it is. It doesn’t make much sense to lower the price of a model that’s always sold out.
You post more. So you’re a witty adult without a day job. Sad.
Reading “The DaVinci Code” a theologist doesn’t make.
The Noise on the 1DIV kills the 7D. Thar be the difference.
Just because it’s “crop” doesn’t mean it’s “crap”.
And your Leica was DESIGNED for manual focusing. Ever try to focus your 5D2 manually, especially with the stock screen, with a wide angle lens? It’s not fun. It’s also not very effective.
AF cameras should come with good AF systems, and not just with the center point. We’re a few decades into this now. Canon screwed the pooch on the 5D2 AF system.
Hey Dad where you been, you owe mom a ton of child support..
The Canon 300 f/2.8 lens weighs 6 lbs, the 120-300 f/2.8 Sigma zoom, 5.7 lbs, and the Sigma 30 f/2.8 prime, 5.4 lbs.
The Sigma prime should be 300, not 30
Could you please use standard international units of measurements when posting on an international forum? That aside, handling any lens over 3kg is neither comfortable not easy, especially considering added weight of a very solid tripod with something like a Wimberley head. And that aside, I’d rather see Canon concentrate of more common lenses than fairly specialist ones.
I hate HDSLRs as well – no video thanks
Actually, I knew all that way before I read Dan Brown.
Simon you just crack me up. …When you have been selected as one of the top 10 wedding photographers in the world (like Jeff Ascough has) then I might listen to your comments about the AF needs of a wedding photographer.
I ment new camera body guys and not used one. you can get used ones for %500 or less now.
Actually, I only read Dan Brown’s oeuvres just last year. I knew about the origins of Christianity well before that.
I thought he is God?
Mark iv’s ar in short supply because they sent very few to America (5-6) all together. Japan got 8 including one for Mr. Canoyava.
All of you HD video lovers are aware, I suppose, that for a 1000 $ you can get an incredible Full HD camcorder, whose lens will be far superior to the camera lens (for shooting VIDEO).
It’s actually pointless to justify a price increase of 1000 USD or more for a professional camera, just because it has a feature that focuses slowly and shoots at fewer frames/sec.
What are you – photographers or movie directors? If both – then buy two devices. After all, 1Ds mark 4 is a professional camera.