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From our friend at Cinema5D
A new post at the Cinema5D forums talks about a new firmware update for the 5D Mark II.
You can apparently select between 24p, 25p and 30p.
It's noted that the jello effect may actually get worse in 24p and 25p.
Talk away : http://www.cinema5d.com/viewtopic.php….
cr
I was wondering about the ‘rolling shutter’ and if its impact would be nearly gone shooting at 720p@50/60fps…
60fps is gonna be totally wicked, to do some slow-motion segments with and all. I’m excited for this camera, and for the improvements the 1D Mark IV is going to taste from all this!
It’s rubish if you look at the picture the camera power dial is actually off. Also it’s so out of focus that it’s not even funny…
Dang I called this one in a forum last week, lol. No way the 7D is going to completely outdo the 5D2 on video.
I’ve shot about 30 hours of video in a wide range of uses with the 5D2 and I have not seen any jello from the 5D2 like the Nikon’s have from the rolling shutter. There are blur & ghosting issues from the 30p with moving subjects, hopefully 60p will be clean on action/motion scenes like sports, and hopefully 720 60p will be in the firmware update on the 5D2 too.
Maybe it is the 24p that gives the Nikon’s more jello because they dont have 30p? So maybe the 24p on the 7D will too? That makes sense. I’m more excited about 720 60p being added anyway.
I don’t see anywhere in that forum where they mention a 5dmk2 firmware upgrade. Can someone send a link to that post? I’m too lazy, and the page that this link posts to doesn’t mention it :)
There are still MANY fixes and improvements that can be implemented to 5D Mark II Firmware.
Magic Lantern team has proven to be more creative in few months than Canon with all their resources in a long time…
The question is: IS CANON GOING TO DO IT?
Please let me link to this message:
http://5dmark2.wordpress.com/2009/09/01/canon-what-is-going-on/
Thank you very much.
http://www.canonrumorsforum.com/index.php?topic=176.msg2709#msg2709
“A new firmware update on the 5D2 could add those features like 25p and 720 60p” August 31, 2009, 01:02:13 PM
hahaha
WEAK SAUCE.
This shouldn’t be posted as “5D Mark II Firmware Update??” on CanonRumors. This is basically someone saying “oh, that’d be cool!”
LAMER!!!!!!!!!
hahaha it’s not the CR link, I wrote that last Friday, I’m just kidding around because the CR link is also just a forum comment and he didn’t quote my prediction ;)
How about one for the T1i for some manual controls …
I doubt there’s the same pressure. The mk2 is at a higher price point, so the people that shelled out the cash for it are could be upset that the lower price point model has better video. Although, they could always say “sorry, it’s a different audience” or something, who knows.
But the T1i costs half what the 7D costs, 1/3 as much as the mk2, so wouldn’t it be understandable that it’s not as feature-packed?
Manual controls are nice optional features, but I’d prefer to have good continuous autofocus in video mode first.
We’ll *never* see that :(. Manual controls are actually *great* if you’re trying to get 2mpx frame grabs of fast-moving stuff.
Regardless, I’m pretty sure you will see a 24/25p firmware update on the 5D sooner rather than later, especially in light of the 7D acquiring these features.
If only Magic Lantern didn’t have all the “your camera may never work again” disclaimers all over the place…hope they get past the beta stage on it soon.
Is 5dmk2 really that bad? im thining to get one though
Well, I’ve emailed Canon twice about me being disappointed.
Response From Yesterday:
“Unfortunately, we currently do not know of any plans to change the EOS 5D Mark II to be able to shoot at 24 fps instead of 30 fps. We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.”
Response From Today:
“Canon USA has made no announcements regarding the development or release of a firmware update related to the issue you have described.”
The key bit in both responses was this:
“We have forwarded your comments to Canon USA through our Customer Feedback process.”
If enough people ask (or complain) about firmware updates, eventually we’ll get one… ideally…
@FullFrame
The 5D Mark II is an incredible camera. If you’re a photographer and enjoy snapping sharp landscapes and stunning portraits, this camera can’t be beat. We’re just bummed about a number of silly things Canon decided to leave out of the software…
That disclaimer is to avoid any further claims, but the camera doesn’t breack :) Just get locked sometimes, then you can get off the battery to unlock it and everything is ok (read forum for more details)
There are many beta testers since long ago, who test every pre-release and help to report bugs. A couple of programmers then work very hard on their free time…
So you can see how MUCH this very small team has achieved, with almost no resources, and how POOR Canon has been with THOUSANDS and thousands of customers who invested in the camera and full frame lenses around the world (that could reach easily millions of dollars)…
I was jesting a bit about the disclaimers. Believe me I respect what they doing big time. I just can’t chance a lock up on a shoot. When it’s stable I’ll pay for their product.
It’s awesome. My favorite camera ever.
manual audio control, 720 60p, that’s what I want added.
Ok man :)
I have no idea, but my gut feeling is that the 5D MK II will not get 60p.
The 7D has 2 x Digic 4s but the 5D MK II has only one.
I’ve hopeful that we may get 24p / 25p.
I really want 25P.
1920×1080 > 2x 1280×720, so 1 Digic4 should be more than enough?
What picture are you referring to?
Very good point.
The reading speed of the sensor (it is CMOS after all) could easily play a part.
There is talk about the 7D having less global shutter effects, so maybe the reading speed of the sensor is faster on the 7D ?
It would be great if the 5D gets the shooting speed updates.
C’mon, ever heard of trickle down economics? :D
Well, at least Canon proved that Chuck Westfall was not well informed (or intentionally misinformed).
From Planet5D:
…his opinion. “I doubt you’ll see it” Chuck stated. He went on to tell about how the recent firmware upgrade was tough, but necessary to add features that were missing. But the issue isn’t with the software but with the Digic IV chip. It was designed with 30fps in mind. It does all the heavy lifting of the processing of the video…
As the 7D proves it, the Digic 4 chip was not designed only for 30P.
Read more:
http://blog.planet5d.com/2009/07/will-the-canon-eos-5d-mark-ii-get-24p-video/
We’ll see it. Just not in the 1st generation. Canon has given their camcorder engineers a much bigger role in the DSLR design process now, we’ll see some good improvements down the road.
We’ll probably also see some new video friendly zooms.
1 Digic 4 could do it, as PS said, 720 60p is the same bandwidth as 1080 30p. Question is, is the Digic 4 on the 5D2 programmed to encode it that way? If not, and the Dual Digic 4 on the 7D has new programming on the video encoding, then a firmware update might not do it. I’m hoping that is not the case and they just need to get the menu firmware to turn it on.
hope 720p
Has anyone seen this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZp9WMy4ihg&feature=player_embedded
Hitler isn’t very happy at all about the 7D. Of course it was posted by a filmmaker friend of mine on Facebook. Um. This is a STILLS CAMERA. We should be grateful to have a direct print button, let alone video.
Yeah i’ve seen it yesterday, this was pretty fun nicely done !
Again a nice one, but not very original anymore there are to many variants of it (Hitler in Nikon vs Canon, Hitler with Vista, Hitler with the 5dmarkII etc)
Next one will be he purchased a 7D and the new 1D/1Ds is released.
It’s business….
the firmware update for the 50d, it’s the 7d….
It’s awesome, but know its limitations. Autofocus is severely crippled. I just upgraded from the 40D and am constantly frustrated by the edge AF points. They’re not cross-type like *all* of the 40D’s are – just the center one is. The camera has crazy good ISO 6400, and if you have a fast lens, you might be thinking of shooting in near darkness, but you’ll find AF won’t work really well in such conditions. However, remember that the camera has a pushed ISO 25,600 – I believe the Live View is using this when needed. That Live View is almost like night vision. I’m finding it able to help me manually focus in anything hand-holdable – it’s really amazing.
Video is fun, but don’t sell your HD camcorder and expect this to be your family moments video camera. The focus is all manual, and your wife isn’t going to want to deal with it.
Once you get over these points, the camera’s great. It’s easy to gripe about technical issues, but, ya just gotta get over it. When you learn to work with it, you can take some amazing shots. The RAWs are stunning, and if you’re not shooting full frame yet, it’ll blow you away. I just sold the last of my EF-S lenses and am upgrading to L-series primes. One of the big things you’ll notice is how much more useful the traditional focal lengths are in full frame. For example, I’ve had the 70-200mm for a while now on my 40D. It’s a long telephoto. Now, at 70mm, it’s so much wider. I’m using that lens way more than before. Likewise, 50mm is *completely* different.
Get the mk2, don’t expect it to be perfect. Save all the packaging, and sell it in a year for the mk3, which will have a lot of this coolness that the 7D announced.
Canon now has the 1.1.1 firmware update available for download
It does not add any new video formats though :(
http://www.canon.co.jp/imaging/eos5d/eos5d_firmware-e.html
This firmware update (Version 1.1.1) incorporates the following fixes and improvements:
It now supports high-capacity CF cards.
It allows the latest lens names to be recorded in the Exif information of images taken.
It adds lenses that are compatible with the Digital Photo Professional 3.2 lens aberration correction function.
http://www.canon.co.jp/imaging/dc/eos5d111.exe
Woops wrong 5d
I was jumping when I saw this. Sorry for the false alarm; only realized this when I tried to do the update. Sorry everyone
Ezzat,
You realize than that firmware is for Canon 5D and NOT for 5D2, right ?
Saludos.
http://i27.tinypic.com/19rq0m.jpg
the one that generated the rumor…
Jello is due to slow sequential sampling time of the sensor, and not the sampling frequency (although a high frequency will require a higher sampling time and therefore put a ceiling on jello.) If you sample at the same speed, just less often, there shouldn’t be any more jello. At least objectively speaking – the brain might accentuate the existing jello at lower frame rates making it more noticeable (but that’s just pure speculation.)
Maybe because you’re not reliable but the other guy is? ;)
Know it’s indended uses.
AF is not crippled. It’s just not designed for sports. If you want sports get a 7D, ID3 or even a 50D on cheap side.
It’s definately not a family camera unless you specialize in shooting families/kids/portraits.
I dont know the technical side of it.
I know Nikon DSLR’s are all 24p, and they have a pretty strong jello effect. The 5D2 I’ve yet to see any after shooting in many different situations, and it’s all 30p. So it appears perhaps Canon didn’t release 24p because they knew it was more problamatic, but I’m just guessing.
Even at 30p, there are still challenges when motion is involved from too blury at 1/40th to a ghosting efect on faster shutter speeds.
lol well if a comment in a forum is a source for rumors then I suppose that would be true.
New firmware update!!!
http://www.canon.co.jp/we-dont-care-about-you-only-care-about-your-money-morrons
i dont even know how to turn on video or live view on my two 5d2’s
If a firmware update is not possible, Canon could at least have the courtesy to issue an official statement instead of disregarding it’s customers. I recently bought a 5DMK2 and considered selling if for a 7d but it’s selling for £1699 here in the UK so a double insult from Canon.
Hopefully Nikon is watching closely and will release the full-frame VSLR we all want. Then I’ll gladly sell my MK2 and never buy a Canon product again.
Staggeringly easy for both, and a lot of fun. Neither is a daily necessity, but good to know should you need it. This should work the same on both of your cameras. :)
Live View:
Push the Direct Print button
Movie:
While in Live View, push the Set button.
Just got message from canon UK
“there are no other upgrades and no indication of any further upgrades in the near future”
Hurray! A rumour thread for all the 5D whiners. Can all the whining please be restricted to this thread and this one alone? Cheers.
“John Swan Says:
September 2nd, 2009 at 2:47 pm
Hurray! A rumour thread for all the 5D whiners. Can all the whining please be restricted to this thread and this one alone? Cheers.”
John, maybe you can afford to spend £2000 on a camera only to be slapped in the face but many of us can’t. As much as this obviously isn’t of interest to you, there are many, many angry Canon customers who have the right to voice their frustration.
Your jibe about “whiners” is a little unnecessary.
You are whining. If you can’t afford a 5D2 then buy a 40/50D.
Really? I’ve shot a lot too, PJ, news and sport and currently working on some documentary stuff. A friend has been using his for behind the scenes stuff on feature films and pretty much gone to tripod use because of the wobble. Not as bad as the Nikons, but the technology isn’t quite there yet.
I’m very interested to see what the 7D brings ahead of the next 1D.
As Arnold Schwarzenegger would say “Stop whinning!”
Initially I would have agreed. Might ask your friend to turn off the lens IS. Most people turn it on when handholding, and I’ve found that on video it looks a lot like jello but its really just the IS.
I think you miss my point, this is a high end camera with a high end price to match. I think “whining” is to be expected considering 5D users, who forked out a lot of money, have been begging for 24/25p in their full frame camera for months. Canon have chosen to remain silent on the matter, only to add this much-requested feature to a smaller-sensor camera and say nothing about the 5D.
5D users annoyance is more than justified even the issue doesn’t affect you. Please consider this before posting insensitive comments
i m personally extremely angry with canon!
for not bringing out 25p in the first place (not fair towards european customers) and for keeping silence!
COULD YOU SPEAK OUT LOUD WITH A CLEAR STATEMENT: 24/25P YES OR NO?
The 5DmkII should have 1080@24/25 and 720p options added! Surely its not too hard to add? If Canon would add it, it may gain some respect from people.
it would be nice if Canon would be more forthcoming about planned improvements on the firmware so we know what is possible, what is coming, and what is not.
This is a camera that produces a video image worthy of cameras worth 10-30 TIMES the price.
I bought a 5D2. I shoot video that I have to convert through Twixtor to 24p. It does affect me, but I’m not going around bashing Canon about how they ripped me off, because it’s an exceptional value.
Someday they’ll make a better camera with all these features and more, and people will still complain about it. You’ll want more, and never be satisfied.
So I’m not insensitive, I just don’t believe you have a valid argument, hence I agree with the view that you are whining.
– Not really, they are both different things that overlap in some features.
7D will always be an APS-C sensor camera with 18MP, no Firmware can change that.
– What users (Canon customers) of 5D Mark II request is that Canon improve what CAN be improved.
– We are tired of getting UNPROFESSIONAL answers as replies to our inquiries, or the same old “we can not talk about…” answer.
Customers who invested in such expensive Canon equipment (cameras and lenses) DESERVE more attention, more respect, and to BE LISTENED in the facts.
– You can CALL Canon and place your request, as many already did. (check the link above)
You can mention all the valid arguments. What we only ask people is to be Respectful.
– There is also a VERY interesting press conference report in Japan:
http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/20090901_312421.html
In that conference appears Dr. Masami Kawasaki, President and CEO Canon Marketing and Masaya Maeda Director and Chief Executive of Image Communication Products Operations.
– According to that report, a single Digic 4 can handle 24p and 60p, and Canon didn’t take a decision yet about the 5D Mark II…
So the more we request, the more chances.
If I buy a car should I return to the dealer and demand free upgrades when the newer model with more features comes out? I don’t get the entitlement attitude from 5DmkII owners. You bought a prouct and (should have) knew what you bought. People deserve a product that works right but unless someone can show me the “free upgrades in perpetuity” plan you paid for then whatever you do get from Canon is a gift and isn’t “owed” to any of you. Everyone thinks they deserve somethin’ for nothin’.
well, canon never claimed that the camera cannot be improved. they will improve, but be prepared to buy the new camera.
“Know its intended uses”
Love that statement. Somebody claimed he couldn’t shoot 21mp pics and video in d700.
why are you begging for added features? you paid for the camera knowing pretty well what you are getting. End of story. It shouldn’t matter what canon does to its product lines.
If you feel canon was unfair to you, just sell your camera and buy something which fills your needs. I know you cant do that as there is nothing available in the market for you at that pricepoint. Guess what, canon knows that too. That is the reason they think they don’t need to respond to these kind of feature requests. In corporate books, they dont have a business case to dedicate resources for an existing product which is on high demand
Maybe you should think about the fact the D700 can’t shoot 21 MP pics or 1080p video when reading all the D700 makes a better picture than the 5D2 BS on these forums.
If you bought a car with an computer controlled turbo charger but the turbo didn’t work because the company’s software engineers hadn’t finished the programming for the car when you bought it, wouldn’t you want it finished?
The 5D2 will have a 3 year replacement cycle. That’s a long time to wait for a new version, and plenty of time for Canon to release firmware updates so consumers can get the most of the camera.
If the desired features are not possible via firmware update, or Canon just plans to not do any more updates, they should tell the consumers so they can decide what to do for themselves rather than waiting in the dark wondering if those updates are coming or not.
I don’t blame people for lobbying Canon for additional functionality. Nothing wrong with that. But excoriating Canon about something never promised or implied is over the top. Your analogy doesn’t work here. Hey, if Canon does it then good for 5d owners. Are you willing to pay or the upgrade? If not, why not? If it’s worth having it’s worth paying for.
whine whine whine!
this isn’t a video camera .. are you going to PAY canon to develop and issue out the firmware.
would you CRY if canon announced a 5d Mark IIN and made you PAY the hundreds of thousands of dollars it costs to develop, test, QA, field test, test some more and package up as a firmware release for an ENHANCEMENT .. that YOU don’t give CANON a RED NICKEL for?
actually we will probably sooner or later. canon has the patented technology to do TTL-SIR AF while recording liveview / video.
They need to act like Apple and Microsoft as far announcing release date targets or an end to firmware updates on products.
If they’re going to admit Digic 4 can do 24p or 60p (I’m thinking you mean 720 60P) then they should say if they are going to deliver it or not.
not to mention, you’re asking CANON to divert resources from FUTURE camera systems to your CURRENT one .. when by all means, if there’s another firmware release it should cover the shadow banding WAY HIGHER than any video related functionality.
because THAT effects the REAL reason this exists .. you know .. a DSLR? takes PICTURES?
not the case here at all.
people bought the camera knowing full well it only did 30fps.
so there’s nothing here that “didn’t work”
in classical software development terms:
– remediation .. is when existing business level functionality does not perform as expected.
– enhancement .. when new features/functionality is desired in current functionality.
this is an enhancement, not remediation.
I would say banding / shadow noise is a more serious “remediation” than any “enhancement” that the video people want.
The anology works because the Digic 4 already has the encoding for 24p and 720 60p programmed into it. It just needs to be turned on by adding the option to the menu.
No one is saying give us features the camera was not designed to have.
As for paying for it? Why should we pay them to finish the firmware just because they rushed it to market because Nikon announced a camera with video first?
I will pay for a third party like Magic Lantern to give me the features if their firmware version gets stable enough and the camera doesn’t lock up on you because I’m tired of waiting to see if Canon will or wont.
How can a camera that records video not be a video camera? lol
Oh, Mr. too scared to say who you are while bashing people Anonymous, you should go tell all the people shooting TV, film projects, weddings, corporate & promotional videos with the 5D2 to stop using it because it’s not a video camera…
hahahahaha
Stop with the lawyer-speak.
We just want Canon to add the option to the menu so it can be used. If it can’t be done, then they should say so.
Can u guys go to sleep? and dream on…
Canon has no costumer loyalty. We as 5d owner paid big money for this camera. Yes the image quality is good. That go without saying. But Its missing a lot of features that go with buying a camera that shoots video. like descent audio. 24p and others. Canon only concerned with competing with Panasonic(gh1) or nikon (d300) All the features the gh1 has tells us panasonic is willing to give you a product that you can use a host of features. Now they bring out this camera with dual cpu’s like the gh1 and 24p at a price to compete with the gh1 . So then if the 5d owner don’t like it , Just go buy our other camera!! Well I say Don’t buy that camera a send more appeals for a firmware update that make this camera more user friendly. And for the bastards that won’t to talk garbage to concerned 5d owners . Go find something else to to like jackoff .You sorry as mutha******s
Well, they wont. coz they dont need to
canon would need a solid business case to allocate resources and time for enhancements to an existing product.with the current demand and supply ratio of 5dII, they would instead use their resources for future products.
didnt you know that the programmers hadn’t finished the programming for turbo charger when you bought it ?
they dont have to tell the customers what they are not plannning to do
craig u know nothing, so stfu.
Personally I think the more whining the better.
That way the possibility of more public announcements like the one Canon made about the 5D MK II autofocus can be minimised.
You know the one where they said, “No one complained about the autofocus in the 20D, so we fitted it to the 5D MK II.”
next best Canon EOS 5D Mark III fuller
thank you
And anyone reasonable knows the banding is not something you can just fix while the 24p very much appears to be.
I think people who bought the 5d mark have a lot of passion for what they do. And we need to stick together , Only in these forums can we understand the business side of companies like canon. the way they think . Its funny when you call tech support the responds that you get. I don’t care where you live , they would get semi rude with you before they admit that you have a legitimate complaint. the our taught a script , and they stand by it . No matter how strong your argument is. This is taught from the top exec down to costumer service . They will down play any complaint you have . Example … “This is mainly a stills camera ” ” you are not trying to use it to make movies are you ?” ” you should have bought a video camera ” At the same time they advertise REVERIE !!!
My post about non L prime price and date release was simply removed. I really don’t know why, because I just had a look on the price list from the website. The EF 100mm macro from 2000 is the last non L prime lens release, about 9 years.
It should be a lot of people working for canon on this forum.
We are speaking from products sold 2000 euros and lenses starting at 1000 euros… not from single use camera.
160000 people are working for canon.
The release of firmware for 5dII and 50d is peanuts and definitively it’s cost nothing comparing to advertising for instance. The announcement of such upgrade for 5dII and 50d would be a low cost advertising with deep impact on canon fans and new potential buyers.
First customers for such products are people which already have some canon body and lenses.
Anyway it is part of the service.
People ready to pay such camera are very good customers. Perhaps at one point, canon should think about it.
If you consider a processor like the digic IV; the functionality embedded within the 50d and the 5dII are exactly the same, the difference being that some options are locked on the 50d.
Considering that firmware updates for high end technology and long term business via the lenses is a deep marketing mistake, it runs only short term. canon will loose some customers.
Ha, sadly neither of us have been testing IS versions of the 24-70, 50 1.4 or 17-40 ;) And i’m really not into shooting the 70-200 handheld for video.
But seriously it really does have the wobbles. You can sometimes get away with it, but for fast paced news stuff it just isn’t quite there. But for interviews and documentary stuff where you have more time it does some nice stuff.
All the numbers are right but with the existing demand for 5dII, canon knows that people dont have a choice. and that is what is happening. people who needed it bought it knowing its limitations and continue to buy still. Yes, monopoly sucks.
Oh sure, Im 101% with you and I do know d700 is a wonderful machine, but there was a guy who was complaining in CR about how d700 couldn’t take 21mp pics and shoot video. Lol..probably he didnt understand what is written on the box or the in the manuals.
You know how fast new technology market can change.
I think canon will get more and more pressure from other competitor, simply because they didn´t replace the middle class lens.
It’s perhaps fun to start in photography with L lenses and 5dmkII, but seriously, with such material, its very difficult to make bad pictures.
With an old prime middle class line, long term photographs will less and less start on canon. canon wants too much at once.
http://nikonrumors.com/2009/09/02/hot-nikon-news-that-might-have-lots-of-canon-gear-going-cheap-nikon-d700x.aspx
Christian Fletcher is a well known professional photographer from Western Australia and has been a Canon fan for many years – his camera is a Canon 5D MKII. He shoots mainly landscape / panorama. This is what he wrote on his blog a week ago (direct post link):
“I type this from my death bed. Don’t worry no need to send get well gifts but the gallery will accept them.
I am privy to some pretty cool news for Nikon users, that cool in fact that I might have lots of Canon gear going cheap. Can’t spread the news yet but let’s just say it will be tipping the scales in nikons favour.”
Tags: New nikon camera release, nikon d700x, nikon rumours
I’m switching to Nikon if d700x is any good. I’m a 5DMkII user using Nikon glass.
u can buy car with steering wheal on right side :)
…..It should be a lot of people working for canon on this forum.
You’re using nikon glass? So you’re manually focusing? What adapter are you using?
why?
you bought the camera knowing the specs of it before you bought it.
stop whining.
you already got a “free upgrade” to add manual controls.
do you honestly know how RARE that is?
do you know how COSTLY it is to upgrade existing in production and produced firmware?
we’re not talking about a mom and pop shop. we’re talking about a COMPANY that has to have the strickest forms of QC / QA when it comes to releasing a firmware patch.
do you know that development of a patch is actually 10 times more costly after at the unit is already being deployed?
Free upgrade ? $2700 hundred dollar camera and a free upgrade ? Lets be get real here. Canon had no choice the gh1 was killing them on options . A camera that cost less than half Considering the lens that came with it . A 14-140 lens that can focus while it zoom! Let’s get real coward. This offering by Panasonic would have kill Canon if they had not gave those manual controls . Check camcorderinfo.com and many other reviews . They finally after a great outcry of committed costumer finally did the right thing. And it was more to their benefit. MagicLantern successfully did many upgrades quickly. So save your sorry facts
The motivation for Canon to finish the firmware is to sell more 5D2’s, plain and simple. If Canon decides to piss off a large segment of video users who bought the 5D2 they are going to consider another company’s product when the first good competitor hits the market.
Sony has yet to jump into this. We all know they will. And Sony has a lot more experience in video camera production than Canon. I suspect the reason we have not seen a Sony video DLSR yet is they will come into this full throttle with accessories and features catered to the prosumer video market.
So there you have plenty of business reason for Canon to build the biggest and happiest EOS DSLR user baser while they still can.
Coming from someone too afraid to show their name while bashing people anonymously and who probably doesn’t even own a 5D2 that is funny.
They don’t have to do anything.
Who are you to tell 5D2 owners they should not ask for the firmware to be finished?
I have no problem with them rushing a camera out early to market and them finishing the firmware based on customer feedback. Many software companies do that, MS, Apple, and thousands of others. If they’re going to that too, fine, but they should also keep their user base informed like they do not just keep everyone in the dark.
Why is that an issue for you?
it’s a free upgrade. was the camera advertised to have that feature at the time of announcement?
did you PAY for any firmware updates?
then WTH do you call it?
no money = FREE.
didn’t advertise the feature = UPGRADE.
MORON.
oh yes and “David” is really not anonymous *eyeroll*
Hey I’ve run through a hiking trail with mine, handheld it at events, and such. It looks no different than doing the same thing with a Vixia without IS turned on, jerky. It is better than HDV in the regard where you get serious noise static when moving that fast from the tape and heads getting messed up briefly.
I agree the 5D2 video isn’t a good news camera handled, but then most news camcorders are shoulder mounted so that’s not really a fair knock on the 5D2. If that’s what you’re gonna do with it I’d get a Varizoom Zero Gravity Rig and you’ll get awesome news video coverage.
Well there’s another guy, wink wink, who completely misses the point of the guy saying the D700 can’t take 21 MP pics in responce to people claiming the D700 makes better images. Aparently he can’t understand the concept of reading things in context.
Click on my name, you’ll find a web link to me and my full name – unlike you mr. bash people anonymous. I’m not the one hiding.
WHY THE FK WOULD THE CONSUMERS CARE HOW MUCH IT COSTS THE COMPANY???
Meanwhile a sole not working for Canon programmer has hacked the 5D2 firmware and added a bunch of features to the 5D2 firmware in his spare time…
I think one of Canon’s doctorate level programmers who actually designed the firmware could turn those features on in the menu fairly easily.
Not buying your huge diversion of assets argument at all, especially given it will only bring more 5D2 sales.
Where exactly i’d pack that thing i’m not quite sure….have you seen the average press photographers bag?! The smaller red rock systems looks possible though.
But i’m not sure what you’re doing right, to every other person i know that uses one the wobble is annoying and can make some handheld footage unusable.
As for a news camera, yeah sure broadcast news use the bigger shoulder cams, but most newspapers use smaller stuff from the likes of the Sony Z1 (which is what i have used) to even mobile phones! The small handheld cams get used in conflict zones quite a lot. And there’s defo a difference between handheld on a Z1 and the 5D (i’m only talking about the wobble here, obviously the too produce very different footage).
Which is why i’m keen to see what the new 1D will bring, being able to meet the new multimedia/video do everything way of working that everyone seems to think is going to save the PJ industry having it all in one camera is going to be a big help.
So you going to be stuck on that word free? You cant address any of the facts I stated ,You want to be stuck on free. Upgrades are no big deal its how companies address unforeseeable issue they did not catch before a product is released. I’s a give and take that’s why we stay loyal. And What is your interest? Why are you here? If you dont want to her us try to find solutions to are issues. get off the forum.
The only time I’ve seen jello looking video is using the 70-200 IS or 100-400 IS until I turned off the IS. As you said though, it’s gets very jerky looking and largely unusable unless you’re going for a jerky look.
I hear ya on the PJ front. I did a stint with the local news paper many years ago. Still have my old Domke bags from that. The big problem for handholding to me is the viewfinder locked on the back. With the Z1 you just get better ergonomics, AF, smooth power zoom and such the 5D2 just doesn’t have at this point.
As you said a smaller should mount might work, put a quick release on it and perhaps it would be doable. There’s also the VZ 1Shooter, BushHawk makes some too.
The 1D4, not sure it will be a do-all PJ camera unless they do some rethinking on it as a combo photo-video camera, flip out LCD, better audio, etc. I could see a 28-300 zoom designed to hold like a camcorder and a power zoom toggle on it, something like that would make DSLR video more of a camcorder style shooting. We’ll see where this all goes.
Do you pay for Microsoft’s Service Packs? Last time I checked MS gave me SP1 and SP2 for free, and dozens of smaller updates for free too, and often those updates, improve, or unlock features, for free. Or maybe you have a Mac, but its the same thing there. You pay for a new OS version, not updates.
I’m using Fotodiox Nikon F Lens to Canon EOS adapter. Cheap but works great at least now.
I’m really excited about Nikon’s d700x though it’s still a rumor but it’s supposed be 5DmkII killer. I think 7D killed 5DmkII already though when it comes to video :-)
I should leave here for Nikon Rumors…
Microsoft releases patches to fix the defects. Ask microsoft for a free upgrade from vista basic to ultimate. Canon offered patches via firmware for defects but offering additional features is totally up to them. you cannot force them to do so, unless it was promised when you made the purchase
Ok, then sell 5dII and buy GH1, if you feel that is the right tool for your job.
because I’d rather canon fix the issues the 5D2 that are important to the primary reason that camera exists … you know .. stills photography?
cheers.
there’s PROBLEMS there .. that canon SHOULD be spending time on correcting .. versus enhancing it, and not fixing the issues at hand.
companies don’t have unlimited budgets. you get fixes .. you want more features, you buy the next item they come up with.
do you phone up Sony and demand that they update their HD tv to 1080P from 720p for you?
I’m sure sony would laugh, and redirect you to sales to select the appropriate TV.
these are consumer goods. that are replaced in 3 years or less with a newer model.
and what defines a new OS version?
“gasp” features!
imagine that.
exactly.
what is with this puported culture of intitlement from such a small segment of the canon installed base is beyond me.
frankly the 5D Mark II has some serious image quality issues that need to be resolved before any further work is done for such a small minority of the buying public.
actually from what at least we’ve been told. DIGIC IV enables video.
DIGIC IV does not do the h.264 encoding.
which makes sense because h.264 actually has royalty fees for licensing of the codec.
dpreview mentions that the encoding is done outside of DIGIC IV.
“The 5D Mark II becomes the second Canon DSLR (after the EOS 50D) to feature the new DIGIC 4 processor. This enables various new image processing features (such as lens peripheral illumination correction) as well as dealing with 21 megapixels of data at up to 3.9 frames per second (or 82 megapixels a second). It also enables video capture although we’re told a second chip does the actual encoding.”
so the THEORY that it’s simply firmware and the 7D already has it .. may not be correct. especially if the encoder is hardwired for 30p.
the actual encoding of the video stream is done off DIGIC IV.
it’s not done by DIGIC.
otherwise, canon would have to pay royalty fees for every DIGIC IV chip produced and put into market, versus simply the cameras that have it.
dpreview in their 5D Mark II states that they’ve been told that encoding is done via another IC.
so:
1) the 5d2 sensor has to be able to spin off the data at different framerates .. that may or may not be possible.
2) DIGIC IV obviously supports it
3) the h.264 encoder may not support it.
it’s alot more complex than some are possibly making it out to be.
going back to the CR “hacking the framerate” one, it’s fitting that this will be more of a kludge workaround which makes me suspect that the hardware itself simply isn’t in the 5D Mark II to natively support the framerates.
if so .. than from a development, testing and QC perspective .. this isn’t an easy or a “confident” update from Canon.
Meanwhile . .the 7D was built from the ground up to support the varying framerates based upon feedback on the 5d mark II.
so the potential is there, but we shouldn’t minimize the effort or the potential for problems.
yes, but what the sensor in the 7D and the encoder in the 7D, not to mention the HDMI output circuitry designed to support the variable framerates and does that exist in the 5D Mark II.
in that blog it’s specifically mentioned this is a third hand explaination.
CR Guy, any news about this topic?
+1
I’m really excited about Nikon’s d700x though it’s still a rumor but it’s supposed be 5DmkII killer. I think 7D killed 5DmkII already though when it comes to video :-)
does anyone knows how much the 7d cost in europe?
thanks
Not so fast! I think we’ll find the 7D is significantly behind in noise control above 1600 ISO (to be expected) which will really be a limiting factor in it video potential.
The 5DMK2 will still rule as the King of low light shooting. But as you said, I’m pretty curious to see what Nikon have baked up by doing another X version. The 700X could be a stonker if it’s FF with multiple video frame rates and resolutions.
If they throw in at least 6 FPS & maybe bump the resolution up a touch (not more than 16MP) stills and a decent AI Servo AF as well, then it could be bye bye Canon for me.
Of course, then i’ll be stuck with Nikon’s vastly inferior glass…why is there always a compromise?!
I agree it may not be possible, although the interviews I read sure sounded like the it’s the Digic 4 doing the encoding. What I’m saying is Canon should say one way or other. If it’s not. Then we know the hard limitations of the camera. If it’s just turning it on in the menu, then give the update to the customers.
What still photography problems? Do you even have a 5D2 to be making false statements like that?
I use my 5D2 for stills too. Where’s the problems? And don’t dump that crippled AF nonsense when you know good and well the camera was not designed for sports.
You don’t know what you are talking about. No one is saying add features not already in the camera like your example of asking Sony to add 1080p to a 720p TV. That’s NOT what’s being talked about here by anyone.
Do you understand what people are even asking here?
No one is saying give us new features the camera was not designed for.
When the 5D2 came out it all auto, no manual control at all. If you had your way, that’s where it would have stayed.
Fortunately, no one listened to the Nikon fans calling people whiners, idiots and morons for wanting more and saying so, and a lot of people said, “hey Canon, this is nice but we need manual control.”
And guess what, it was a just a firware patch away. Canon did not spout nonsense about paying for new features like you do because Canon wants to sell more cameras, unlike you people who want Canon to not add all the features the camera is capable of.
If the camera can’t do it. Fine. They should say so and end the requests.
for a marketing guy, you know a lot of things about canon secrets…
stop lying or speaking from things you have no ideas.
Canon engineers are not idiots or stupid guys. DIGIC IV is a brilliant image processor for high end products.
The video format used by the 5dII do not require so much encoding processes. I could do it without so much problems, with such a processor, one can also think about taking another full resolution image per second.
Anyway, it’s even obvious because such capability is already on your camera, the firmware would be just to unlock the frame setting.
I almost did buy a GH1 to add to the 5D2 for action video for this reason. I waited to see what the 7D would be like as I don’t care for the lens options on the GH1 or the picture quality on stills. Glad I did. I’ll probably get the 7D for the free 1.6 teleconverter with no light loss for certain video shots.
This is true of any big company. It also helps to understand customer service people deal with utterly moronic questions all day long, and they are human.
If you’re a pro, join CPS. You get to bypass a lot of BS.
hahaha
if canon do not want to go on this market, another competitor will take it.
it’s really funny to read about hardware limitations of a processor like DIGICIV just for video encoding or even codecs problems, and particularly for a company like canon who master in both image and video domains.
Just think about the costs to build a further processing line beside such crazy processor.
oh but you do?
tell me do you honestly think the sensor is reading the entire data path at 30fps into DIGIC directly?
which would be around a 1GB data processing pipeline?
(21.1Mp * 30 fps * 14 bits) = ?
obviously there’s more going on then simply a straightforward sensor read, into DIGIC and then spitting it out.
thus, point 1. the sensor may not support getting the data that makes up that stream in any other framerate.
do you know for a fact however that sensor gets triggered into a “liveview” mode .. that it has the ability to vary the clock?
2 .. DIGIC IV supports it .. that much is obvious because the 7D supports it.
3 .. do you know what hardware is responsible for the encoding? I don’t. couldn’t tell you whether or not it’s the same chip in the 7D versus the 5d Mark II .. I don’t think you can tell me that either.
so 1, 2 and 3 are very valid points whether you choose to think about it or not.
the prior canon rumour comments on 24P enablement was mentioning the system in the 5d2 was very tailored to 30fps .. consider that liveview which this stream is feeding from has ALWAYS been 30fps since liveview came out in the 1D Mark III.
who knows? I don’t .. do you?
I’m sure canon has the most clever firmware designers working on something .. one would hope.
but consider the sensor to liveview up to the 7D has always been a 30fps data signal .. the tech just may not be possible to do it reliably in the 5D Mark II.
doesn’t mean they aren’t trying .. but these types of changes are hugely complex involving changing the timing of both the sensor output and also the encoder.
not to mention any other impact it may have .. ie: liveview, etc,etc,etc.
canon also has been bitten way too many times to put out a buggy release, so if they aren’t confident in it working 100% .. they are probably going to take their sweet time.
also consider that Canon very recently moved / ported all their firmware over to DryOs .. and is still moving most of their DSLR’s over to that firmware architecture .. so where this stands on the food chain is anyone’s guess.
to be honest – I’m not even sure how they are dumping the data off of the main sensor .. I can’t see them pumping the ADC’s to almost a billion A to D operations / sec to support video.
Canon really doesn’t say that much about how liveview is implemented … which conversly with the 5D mark II anyways, is where the video feed for the encoder comes from.
well, actually on dpreview .. there’s a ton of people having banding issues when trying to tone map RAW files .. the band sources should not be there.
canon should / can / could (one would hope) be able to somewhat mitigate that down in firmware .. I suspect that’s what the poster is talking about.
there’s quite a few dissappointed people out there in regards to the low ISO banding.
My buddy is trying to buy a classic Mini and the wheel is on the “right” side. :)
CPS ?
Canon Professional Services
I do tone mapping in Photoshop at times. What banding problems? Are they using CS4?
You dont know what you are talking about.
Tech & Industry Analysis from Asia wrote this article about Digic 4
“The Digic 4 encodes and decodes HDTV (1080/30p) video signals according to the H.264 standard.”
“Canon said no special companion chips are used.”
So aparently Digic 4 does do the h.264 encoding. If it can do 1080 30p it should be able to handle slower framerates, or the same bandwidth at 720 60p.
inferior?: thats why 5DII video users like the Nikon G-lenses so much,
Of course the D700x will be a mk2 killer – it’d better be, the mk2 has been out for almost a year now. This time next year, the mk3 will be a D700X killer. We want the D700X to be awesome. It doesn’t make the mk2 anything less than it is, and just pressures Canon to put more features in the mk3. Imagine what Canon would give us if they had no competition…. *shudders*
We have to understand Japanese culture. We use their machines for manufacturing. We found some bug in the software or proposed some improvement in the logic to improve the machine performance. They want you to pay for this upgrade. When you bought another machine and requested to add in these change, they said it was not the standard software and you need to pay for any changes.
Abou 1 million Liras
With the news industry its all about compromise (although the emphasis is on quantity and speed rather than quality at the moment but don’t get me started on that!) and having to adapt how you shoot.
For audio i’ve been using a mix of the Rode Stereo mic mounted on the hotshoe and a Rode NTG-2 into an external recorder. Its not worked too bad (i have used a beachtek mounted under the camera but didn’t really like it) but for the doc stuff we’ve just picked up a marantz unit.
I’m not too bothered about a flip out screen, while it could be handy i can see me breaking it! But i’d like to try the Red Rock stuff, just the base unit with a handle, and the loupe on the screen. Kind of use it like an old Super8 camera.
I think it was you i talked with awhile back about a 1920×1080 virtual crop mode to have as wide a dof as possible for a given fov. That would be nice until video af is better.
But yeah, i’m sure we’re just at the beginning of all this and things will progress rapidly.
I should have stipulated – Nikon just don’t have the range of modern glass that Canon has. Lots of great old Nikon glass, that’s for sure – but they are always lacking in current key areas, areas which Canon exceed in.
Do you actually know what you are saying?
G-lenses are the latest ones addded to their range
Do a survey on why 5DII-users (video) prefer these over Canon
I usually hate entering these kinds of discussions, but this one seems fun! :)
I work in an industry that releases software products all the time. I also write iPhone apps on my own time. The truth of the matter is, it is common to release products that cripple or hide functionality. Sometimes you just don’t have time to fully test them before product launch. Sometimes you’re just not sure if you want to release it, or charge more for it later. I personally get sick of people “demanding” features as if they are entitled to them…with that said, everyone is entitled to their opinions! We live in an age where information and communication have been facilitated greatly by technology. These people that demand features are good in the sense that they provide feedback on what the consumer wants…and better yet, it’s free to the developer!
In this day and age, people expect more for their money, and they expect constant gratification. This is actually anticipated in any product cycle I work on. I am currently working on a product where we are purposely withholding fantastic features, with the sole purpose of trickling them out to end users over time. The reason for this is continued satisfaction with the company. When you keep delivering new features, it keeps customers happy, and makes them think you are listening to their requests.
We are also withholding features that just aren’t quite ready. The development cycle is always ongoing, and if we miss it for this product, we’ll just add it to a future product.
Finally, we hold back certain features as a competitive advantage. If we feel we are ahead of the competition already, then we don’t always feel the need to release something that we can charge more for later. If the competition starts gaining ground, we have features that are ready to release, always keeping us ahead.
Firmware fixes are the same, and I guarantee you Canon is working on all sorts of great firmware updates, features, etc…Some will see the light of day, some will not.
As for people spouting off about the incredible cost of doing upgrades…that just depends…A company like Canon has (must) all sorts of automated regression testing modules in place to test any new features that might come through any firmware update. That is in place before any product is released. It has to be just in case they have emergency firmware releases that need to go to market immediately.
The truth of the matter is, we live in an age where it is expected, and common, to get upgrades throughout a product’s lifecycle. My iPhone has been updated many times. DVD players, televisions, game consoles, software, all get updates. It’s expected, both by consumers, and developers.
At the end of the day, you get what you get,…you are free to complain, you are free to buy other products, and you are free to just be happy with what you already got. I received my 5DmkII yesterday, and am looking forward to it AS IS. With that said, I FULLY anticipate a 24p release on this camera. Not so sure about 720/60p, but I can live without either feature, which is what I bought into when I signed the check for the camera.
Philip Bloom reckons Canon will make some sort of announcement before the 7D but it’s just his personal guess not any insider information.
quote from http://www.twitter.com/philipbloom;
“i think they will let us know one way or another. $50 says they will before 7d hits the streets.”
The point of using Nikon lenses was the aperture ring on them when there were no manual controls. Nikon G lenses don’t have this ring, being their latest line with electronic control. I don’t think anyone with half a brain would go out and buy a Nikon G lens for their 5D.
Hopefully the D700X will have FF and 24/25/30/50/60fps at 1080p. It’s the only way were ever going to see it on the 5D Mark II.
1080p 60p, that is some serious data output. Would be great to have though. Sadly I doubt Nikon are going to pull a rabbit out of the hat with regards to video, They had their chance with the 300Ds but they blew it. Canon came back with the 7D and ruined their party. I’m sure Canon is preparing ‘knock your socks off’ video for the 1D Mark IV.
Yeah, I meant the higher FPS with 720p. As far as I know, no one has 60FPS @ 1080p in these price ranges and I doubt we’ll see it anytime soon.
AF works brilliantly for me. I shoot mainly gigs in very low light, with rapidly moving performers…
Using center AF point? Even if not, I imagine the band is staying relatively still for you. I know the mk2 isn’t marketed for taking shots if your kid in low light, but it just can’t do that. You can center-AF-point everything and have decent luck, then you’re wasting most of your 21mpx.
I’ve been having great luck with Live View – even Live View contrast focusing on still stuff in low light. It’s way better than I originally thought. I hold the AF-ON button and shutter button quickly after it so once focus is achieved it takes the shot immediately. So I don’t care about viewfinder AF in low light for still stuff, but when your subject’s moving and there’s not much light, you’re SOL.
Dont talk about other peoples brains before you know how to use your own:
http://www.16-9.net/nikon_g/
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