Manual Control?

I’ve been told that Canon lent 4 5D Mark II’s to a certain company with a firmware version not currently available.
The firmware is geared towards video. No word on whether or not some manual controls have been added.
I’ve been asked not to mention the industry or the project, so I won’t.
cr
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Fingers crossed. ;)
not likely. if they had it why wouldn’t they release it? more likely they’ll save that card for the 1D line.
Nah, they can’t afford to save it. Nikon and others will be bringing the HD features, and that will force Canon to do it also; Canon actually wins by doing it first.
Me, I have no use at all for video features, but that’s the market trend there is absolutely no way to avoid it. HD video will be in just about every medium to high end DSLR very shortly.
Even the 500D has it. I mean really… the writing’s on the wall.
I’ll be holding out for higher ISO and lower noise, myself. :o)
It is pretty common to let professional experts test before a new camera is released. The potential sales for use in movie making are undoubtedly interesting to Canon and Nikon. Canon has the edge here, with their experience making pro level video cameras.
However, it is possible that features destined for a 1D camera are being tried using a 5D testbed.
Two major things are necessary to do 1080P/30fps. A processor that can handle the data flow, and Canon has that. The sensor must also be capable of having the data read out at a very high speed. It may very well be that only Canon has a large sensor suited to the fast data readout. I suspect that the 500D sensor, and Sony/Nikon sensors are not yet able to do this.
This can be a VERY, but VERY good step for Canon… and doing first is always better for competition and customers perspective.
Let’s hope it is true and also comes soon to the customers.
If Manual Control for Video is implemented (probably some “Dedicated” manu) that not only will achieve the customers satisfaction and loyalty, but also enlarge the market for Canon 5D Mark II.
Let’s hope it’s true and also gives FULL manual control, just like in still mode (that the camera is fully capable of, since all settings are, so far, managed by an AE program)
I hope it is 24 fps.
Is this post is just a joke to test us?
What’s [CR?] ???
CR = Canon Rumors ;-)
I don’t know why people care about the video thing. I never even enabled it. 10000 shutter releases and i don’t even know how to enable it …
…enable live view, hit the middle button..that’s it..try it, it’s fun, you know you want to ;)
Canon would definitely have the pros try out a major firmware update before going ‘live’ on such an update .. Especially on an update that is highly likely to be scrutinized if poorly executed! You can bet money that Canon is keeping a close watch on the market.
Very cool indeed! Way to go Canon by getting ahead of the curve and giving us full manual control. Now let’s just make sure it makes it into the next 5D Mk II firmware release.
I Cant imagine that Vincent laforet (the guy from the night video’s with the 5D’s) used the 5D without manual control. So its definitly there, canon just has to release it for the public.
I want it badly, if only it was only apeture control.
You only take pictures and that’s perfectly fine.
But thoudsands (and I mean THOUSANDS) of people are using the video function.
Many of them even for professional purposes.
To record family moments is much easier to use a home camcorder, but for Serious or Professional videography this camera has Huge potential inside, still not delivered to the customers.
Just check some Forums & Blogs like:
http://www.cinema5d.com
http://www.planet5d.com
http://www.dvinfo.net
photography-on-the.net
http://www.5dfix.com
http://www.canon5dtips.com
Also check: 5dmark2.wordpress.com
and lot more.
Also sites like Vimeo have dedicated groups for the video capability of this camera.
Some designers & manufacturers like Zacuto and Redrock are selling gear dedicated to DSLR for video and filmmakers.
So this is Real, it is Serious.
You only take pictures and that’s perfectly fine.
But thoudsands (and I mean THOUSANDS) of people are using the video function.
Many of them even for professional purposes.
To record family moments is much easier to use a home camcorder, but for Serious or Professional videography this camera has Huge potential inside, still not delivered to the customers.
Just check some Forums & Blogs like:
www .cinema5d.com
www .planet5d.com
www .dvinfo.net
photography-on-the.net
www .5dfix.com
www .canon5dtips.com
Also check: 5dmark2.wordpress.com
and lot more.
Also sites like Vimeo have dedicated groups for the video capability of this camera.
Some designers & manufacturers like Zacuto and Redrock are selling gear dedicated to DSLR for video and filmmakers.
So this is Real, it is Serious.
Who needs photos?? Give me my video!!!! All hail the consumer!! Go Canon!!!
Marcel said: “I Cant imagine that Vincent laforet (the guy from the night video’s with the 5D’s) used the 5D without manual control. ”
Vincent documented very clearly on his blog how he worked around not having manual control on the 5D II. Also, he shot that video BEFORE the 5D II was released about six months ago.
Are you suggesting that the preproduction camera Canon loaned him had manual video control yet he lied and said it didn’t?
I seriously hope they neglect 24fps and concentrate on giving better manual control in video.
What’s the news?
The earth is round and spins?
Althoug this is a rumors site, then at least bring some real news… Why no screenshot of the firmware version? That would make it a bit more believeble
I think this story is utter b*ll
Why wouldn’t they release it? Because it’s being beta tested, maybe?
Go to his site and you will find out how he did it.
“I’ll be holding out for higher ISO and lower noise, myself.”
because a clean 6400 and stunning ISO 50/L just isn’t cutting the mustard? at this point, if a photographer can’t get good images with the current offerings, it’s not the gear’s problem.
I agree. To me, 24p IS a manual control.
Ah, Fred, are you aware of the definition of rumour? If there was a screenshot, then it would no longer be a rumour. And yes CR updates their rumours as more info is available. If you have nothing of value to share…
The new firmware needs to do the following:
1) Add 25p. Half the world has PAL TVs. Hint: don’t insult half the market. (I’ll take 24p too, please – I’m not a PAL user.)
2) Let us control aperture in video mode. Everybody who is serious about video on the 5D is buying Nikon lenses, including me. (We submitted a 15 minute film to the Seattle International Film Festival a couple months ago – shot entirely on the 5D MkII.) Hint: don’t sell the other guy’s lenses.
3) Allow faster shutter speeds at higher ISOs. I’ve tested it. All video shot above the minimum ISO uses an actual 1/33 shutter speed, regardless of what’s displayed. Hint: 1/33 is too slow. Being tied to 100 ISO (200 with HTP enabled) is a shame.
4) Don’t make us reset everything between takes. We mess with the camera to get a setting. We lock it. We record. We stop. And now the camera forgets the exposure that we set. Hint: We look stupid enough shining lights into the lens. Don’t make us do this for each and every take.
I wouldn’t spend over $500 for a still cam – yet I bought the 5D MkII for $2,700, simply because of video. I hope the firmware update comes out before me lens budget is spent…
No I agree with Fred.
There is no depth to this rumor , its about safe as it can be. No descriptions about its changes other that… Video oriented?
Almost anyone could have made that up.
from a site i just read up on…
http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2009/04/searching-for-s.html
The camera also insists on setting exposure for you. The workaround in this case was to use exposure lock. Old time film SLR users will know the drill  point the camera (in auto) at something neutral in tone (the palm of your hand or some grass) and in the same light as what you are shooting. Press the exposure lock and re-frame the shot.
The posts go into full production details, too, and the director (named, appropriately enough, Andrew Disney) comments about the amazing image quality you get from the Canon:
The blacks are deeper, truer, fuller, than most any other camera I’ve shot on.
So is the 5DMkII the best video camera out there for indie filmmakers? Nope. Andrew is already looking at the next one:
But I think all these methods and workarounds with the camera will be obsolete pretty soon. The Panasonic GH1 should hopefully fix it all… I think that’s what we’ll shoot the feature on.
The funny thing is, if Canon does anything at all, you know it’ll be aperture control just to stop the Nikon lens migration. But what I personally find really interesting is that all the focus on aperture control seems a bit misguided to me actually. I think SHUTTER CONTROL would be much more important because without consistent shutter speeds between takes (and entire pieces/movies), the footage won’t cut well together, it simply “looks” different from scene to scene. Furthermore, if you could lock shutter, getting a more open aperture is a no-brainer — it’s called ND filters. Isn’t this the general approach taken in the film industry for like what, decades and decades now? Anyway, the focus on aperture control is completely misguided IMHO, and the sad thing is you know this is what Canon probably plans on enhancing. So, of course that will be a great step in the right direction, but just you wait and see, everyone (the pros at least) will still end up messing with workarounds after locking aperture to get the shutter where they want it, doh!
The focus is on apeture control because of the widely mentioned ability to control depth of field on the unit, which is still impossible to do without adjusting focal legnth and distance from the subject.
you had me till the end – i really wonder sometimes how much higher ISO people want. As it is we are 4 or 5 stops past what we did in film…
The only thing I want is more dynamic range…that is all
If i can’t get a shot at 6400 then I will use a flash for gods sake
i wrote just that under the original comment – totally agree
give me a little more dynamic range and I’ll be UBER HAPPY
Already the best camera I’ve ever owned. And that is after the 1D and 1D2 (no slouches for their time) The internet just breeds silly expectations…
it’s at a point where the companies can’t win – if you read a nikon board it’s the same….everyone crying.
I love going into an event in the camera confident that it will let me take almost any pic i would want with minimal flash interference.
But… i also think its incredibly silly to let all this press about using nikon lenses to have any soft of aperture control
Why do you see a need for a dedicated menu?
There are buttons already in place for ISO, Aperture and Speed (same as the ones we use for stills).
The only need I see is for 24P, 25P or 30P but that could also be solved easily…
The fact is that Canon rushed out a camera that was not ready. Video needs manual control! Pointless without for most applications. Even a fix won’t fix the fact that we’ve been fooled. This is very similar to what happened with the 1D mkIII AF -> Canon denied any problems for many months before updating the cams.
Also bear in mind that this camera was announced 8 months ago and released more than 5 months ago. This should already be far enough time for an update.
Everyone who cares about video should really sign the petition and get Canon to understand that as soon as we can switch to another brand we will.
Even my L lenses don’t feel as sexy as they used to…
Half the world might have PAL but that does not equate to half the buyers. There is a reason the Canon global site features Canon USA first on the list in a bigger font – the USA is by far the biggest consumer market – 25p is nice but I don’t think it’s a top priority especialy as it’s a simple thing to import 24p onto a 25p timeline for editing.
Also, the 5D mkII is a first generation HD camera, and hoping a firmware update will add a ton of new features I would not be holding my breath for.
ack. It isn’t a video camera. It is a still camera with video. I’d love it if it was fully manual but it isn’t. As a still camera it kicks ass. I’m going to write canon if they get manual controls if they can do the same for my sd1000. It has video. Why can’t it have manual controls?
If this does indeed “fix” the video and add manual control and possibly 25 or 24p, then I can again become a Canon fan as it would not come off as something they were “forced” to allow us to have because of something the competition did. If however, these things come to fruition only after say Nikon would release such thing, then I would still be ticked at Canon for keeping something locked up which could have been released all along and only done so when their hand was forced.
If canon fixes the video limitations on this camera soon, they have another sale here.
just wondering – why would Canon release a firmware update allowing for controls they never promised for a camera ? Just giving new gadgets for free ? This is not how I have seen profit oriented companies acting in the past…
I would be happy for every 5D2 owner if it comes true, but it might well be dreaming …
More likely it sounds to me that CAnon releases new controls in new cameras to come.
(sorry if my english is not perfect, it is not my native language)
How was anybody fooled when the 5D2 came out? Everything I read from Canon made it clear there were no manual controls on the HD feature and that there were limitations to it. Vincent Laforet also explained all the limitations of the camera and how he shot the wonderful video using it long before anyone could get the camera. So how was anyone fooled unless they bought it without researching or reading about it?
The 5D2 brought capability in HD video that did not exist before, it’s a first gen camera, and I’m sure Canon is already working on the next gen. But to whine and complain about features Canon never claimed the camera would have and saying they fooled people is far more misleading than what you accuse Canon of doing.
The GH1 will certainly add some much needed video features and competition for Canon, but it is a micro four thirds camera and it remains to be seen if the video quality can match the 5D2 with it’s much larger sensor, especially in low light. I’m not about to invest in a whole new lens line only to have it made obsolete when Canon tromps it months later with something.
I am hoping for something simpler. I wish Canon releases adjustable Auto ISO. It seems very useful to me. It frees me from thinking about adjusting ISO and lets me take care of other things especially when quick reaction is necessary. However, the current Auto ISO imlementation is almost useless. It sticks to too low shutter speed for the focal length which easily blurs the image in low light which 5D mkII is good at. The blur is significant especially with a 21 megapixel sensor.
Couldn’t resist to register my complaint.
What is with all the whining about features Canon is supposedly keeping locked up from their customers?
Maybe its because Canon is really a front for an space alien invasion out to torture consumers before the body snatching begins???
Good lord.
I couldn’t agree more. As much as I’d like the video controls to be upgraded from their current state of worthlessness, I trade the whole video feature for auto ISO that functioned in manual mode.
I know when the firmware will be released!
May 28, 2009
That’s the day I finish shooting my movie w/ the 5D2.
It can. In the case of Canon’s P&S line, at least a third party has enabled this capability.
http://chdk.wikia.com/
The economic incentive for Canon is that people are currently buying NON-canon lenses with aperture rings. Canon could convert these sales by offering this feature. They might make more $$$ on lenses than they do on cameras in terms of margin.
it is easier to implement FULL MANUAL Control than 24 or 25p, because the camera is ALREADY controlling the Aperture, Shutter and ISO settings for video with an automatic program. It does not requiere any modification to the codec algorythm and recording process.
In fact it’s more difficult to make a program to control those 3 values than allowing the user to set them freely.
Dedicated menu would make the video function easier to use and to skip for those who don’t want to use it. That is not specifically requiered to give full manual control, but was just a suggestion.
Most important is Full Manual Contrl. Without it you can not use the camera for serious purposes, you will have to trick everything always and try to get the same values in EVERY take. The worst thing is that CURRENTLY you don’t even know the exact settings used for video when you record, because the camera do not display them accurately. So making them equal in each scene or take is from very hard to almost impossible.
I was asking about this rumor RATING! duh
Feck the video! I wish Canon could magically update the AF!
Also, a 5 frame AEB and adjustable Auto ISO would be great too. ;)
This is pure BS,
Canon would never do such an update that would be admitting they were wrong and it will cannibalize their video line. This is a fan boy pipe-dream!
HAHAHA So by your logic Canon will never improve their HD DSLR features because it would cannibalize their video line? I dont think so. Their video line sales are a drop in the bucket of DSLR sales and if Canon was trying to protect their video line they would not have released the 5D2 with HD video nor ever improve upon it with new models. That makes no sense.
But I agree that major new features will not likely be in a firmware update.
I think NAB next week would be a perfect time for Canon to come out with this update. You know they are going to be inundated with questions from everyone at this event and I am sure they need to have a plan. No better way to make the masses happy than to announce a video update.
the whole point of manual mode is for you to have control – what would be the point of you setting an image to underexpose if the camera just upped the ISO in order to give it a “correct” exposure?
that’s just silly
JC
Points 2,3 and 4 are fixed simply with FULL manual control (not only Aperture control, but FULL instead) to allow control over the three settings.
It is MUCH better to set the Aperture, Shutter speed and ISO manually than any other way or workaround. That is the most important thing.
The 24 and 25 fps is another story, and obviously a highly suggested feature too.
But without Full Manual control you can not get a serious use and workflow without having lot of troubles and needing tricks, using Nikon lenses, etc, etc…. and LOT of times being almost impossible anyway to use the camera for that serious purpose.
i disagree. the word is that canon is about to release a “red killer” . A big sensored dedicated HD Video Camera that has an eos mount allowing it to use all the canon glass…
This again would hurt nikon and establish Canon in a good place…and then it would stop the supposed “cannibalization” of their video line…
That was mentioned in the last link I posted above: 5dmark2.wordpress.com
that directly points to the author’s page.
Full manual control in 5D Mark II won’t canibalize their video line.
the use of DSLR for video is a very different thing, from handling to using, passing thourgh their features (or lack of them in comparison to video camcorders wich include multiple A/V in/out, Sync, timecode, AF, big EVF, etc)
i say again, as much as i hope for full manual controll, this would be the very first time for canon to add new functions to a camera by firmware. please correct me if i am wrong.
if it should happen i am afraid that it will be 50% update, like manual aperture controll, but no iso controll.
720p but no 25frames support.
etc.
let us pray!!
Is it possible that Canon would actually be so bold as to not release the firmware to provide new features, but instead to release firmware which disables the workarounds people are doing to gain limited access to aperture control and such? Of course you could just not decide to update your firmware… but what if they were evil enough to offer 24p or 25p in the firmware to tempt you to update, even though it meant disabling those workarounds….
Crafty!!
Annoying Canon fanboi
Agreed. The funny thing is that you do get manual mode with AutoISO if you use a manual lens. Set camera mode to Tv, set aperture on the lens. Voila.
Word. They certainly do make more on their lenses than on their camera bodies.
@EvilCanon: It would probably be more trouble than it’s worth to implement a system that could subvert nikon aperture control adapters. If they did go to that much trouble it would definitely go against the comments I think Chuck Westfall made about the difficulty in modifying firmware. There would be an uprising for sure. bottom line, i don’t think it’s plausible, even if it’s possible.
If they give us manual control I will drink jenkem.
http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Jenkem
Why would this scenario even be even thought of? It sounds ridiculous and nothing in Canon’s past would indicate they would do something like that. lol
Actually this makes a lot of sense and it’s strange no one has presented this angle before…
Any cannibalization of their video line would be quickly taken care of by just …. improving their video line.
In the end I don’t think that Canon will totally blow all this good will generated by the great video that is possible with the 5d2. I don’t expect a total revamp of the firmware but things like manual aperture seem like an eventual no brainer.
Canon really needs to just release manual control & be done with it, especially if they’re tired of people buying Nikon glass. I can’t see how forcing people to pick up the competitors lenses (even on the secondary market) can be good for Canon’s bottom line.
The negative comments about the lack of this feature can’t be helping sales (although, they are out of stock just about everywhere because Canon is intentionally trickling them out to keep prices inflated)…
Stark-Arts, I don’t know about a RED killer. RED is going after film makers offering 3K, 4K, 5K on up to 28K sensors! – a market Canon has never ever really pursued. Sure some indie shooters used their pro HDV line, and maybe some budget film makers will use the likes of the HFS10, but I just don’t see Canon making anything that will compete with a 28K sensor that is 100 times larger dimensions than full HD. Full HD is smaller than 2K. Canon is not going to make a RED killer and will let RED have their niche while they provide full HD to the other 99.99% of the market.
I totally agree. DSLR video will not cannibalize their video line. If anything adding video into DSLR’s will fuel video making and could easily increase camcorder sales along with DSLR sales.
Although, with the addition of a bottom (vertical) grip that had XLR inputs and a suite of in/outs in place of a second battery many of those features could be added to a DSLR. Still it wouldn’t stop people from wanting a camcorder if they’re a serious video maker.
Of course full manual control will happen. I just dont think it will happen with a firmware update on the current 5DmkII.
If they give us manual control in video mode over ISO, Shutter and Aperture I will go out right now and buy a new L lens instead of more Nikon primes…
Canon quite clearly claimed that the 5D MKII had manual control:
http://www.cinema5d.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=553
@phoric Same here! Immediately!
Uh, no, that is not what Canon said nor what the blog post you quoted quotes the aledged Canon white paper saying.
“unique depth of field control” does not say manual control, and you can use the exposure lock to open the aperature on EF lenses and create a non-typical “video look” from camcorders due to the EF lens selection that blow away fixed lens camcorders, such as a EF 85mm 1.2 L. No where does Canon say they are giving you manual control, nor did they say it was easy, and the fact they plastered Vincent’s video example (which drew all the atttention to the camera in the first place) along with his detailed description of the fact there is no manual control and how he overcame that, all over the media, makes any claims of Canon “tricking” people completely unfounded and sounding more like Nikon fanboi fodder trying to make up for Canon topping Nikon’s lame HD attempt.
Anyone claiming Canon lied or feels fooled by Canon about the lack of manual control on the HD feature of the 5D2 and actually bought one was simply a fool for not reading all the many write ups that were published long before the camera was even available.
please video the event (on your 5D2 with updated firmware, obviously) and post it.
cheers.
Will the new firmware make me a cup of coffee?
That´s a feature i´d like.
Canon! Are you listening?
Adjusting focal length and distance from the subject is not “control”, it is a technique, that the camera itself does not possess. Control implies the ability to manipulate. No manipulation of settings is possible on the camera itself. Therefore, the “control” lies beyond the camera and in the photographer’s techniques.
So if you agree with Canon, that there is depth of field control on the camera, tell me how you control (change) the depth of field mid-shot?
Use the AE Lock button and Depth of Field preview.
Put the camera in Aperture mode, Live View set to Exposure Simulation, ISO should NOT be set to Auto or it will shift whenever the 5D2 ‘thinks’ it’s needed, Exposure Lock must be engaged before filming, the Aperture is easy to lock down, then for the shutter speed by pointing it at brighter or darker subjects to get it where you want, then hit the Exposure Lock. If the wrong shutter speed gets set another press of the Exposure Lock can change it or a double press on the Review/Playback button will completely clear the lock. Then hit ‘Set’ to begin filming.
I’m not saying it it shouldnt have better controls, but you can control the DOF and lock down exposure to get what you want.
Yeah it’s available at Starbucks
The AE Lock and DOF Preview let you control the the depth of field on the 5D2, so it’s not impossible, just not as easy as it should be.
JC, you really can’t imagine a use for this? Let me take two seconds to imagine a scenario. I’m shooting an outdoor event that requires a fast shutter speed. I want to maintain a nice background bokeh by using my lens wide open. Only problem is that the lighting conditions keep changing. With auto-ISO in manual mode I can lock in a shutter speed and aperture and let the ISO float to compensate for rapidly changing lighting conditions. Of course, you wouldn’t HAVE to use auto-ISO in manual mode. It would be an option — one that’s been available on Pentax DSLR’s at a fraction of the price of a 5D2 for a couple years. Nikon too.
Canon just added RAW capabilities to one of their digicams several months after its release. That’s a pretty major after-the-fact feature addition.
Yea I agree with most of what you said. Especially the part about using it for serious apps. I’m very interested in using the cam for my underwater work. Thing is since the AF is soo poor I will need to be able to set an F16 aperture for most of my video work… Until the I don’t see the point in buying a 3000 bucks housing, and actually consider selling the Still cam altogether.
Another very interesting thing is what u said about the cam not giving the correct values for video. Is this just a small bug or does it mean that Canon’s still engineers have no idea how to control video modes? This could indeed mean that there will NEVER be any manual control. It really feels like Canon didn’t get their video and still engineers to work together! Then again it is a shame for our fav brand that they didn’t get the first video DSLR on the market!
Thank you for your quasi insults David. Very good to know how much care I should give to your comments.
Again Canon has shown repeatedly that they have no care about customers. Have u ever lost one of your original installation disk for instance? U didn’t say anything about my comments on the 1D mkIII’s AF? I’d love to hear them…
Also I am so harsh with Canon because I did invest a lot of money buying their products, and a lot of time learning to use them. I love most of my lenses and bodies but need to feel that Canon also cares about people who give it dozens of thousands of bucks…
About the proposed workaround… Well why do you need lenses with small apertures when u could just put you hand in front of the lens to stop it down?
since when does nikon offer pro video cams? U really got me lost there mate
Agreed and much hoped for! Time to answer customers’ legit questions!
Hmmm…let’s see…Canon is rumoured to increase the price of the 5D Mark II in North America soon, as they have done in other markets. Enabling full manual video through a firmware update will be a great way for many to justify the price increase. Clever move by Canon, if that’s indeed the strategy. This approach has worked very well for Sony and their PS3 platform.
It would be great if
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would just let us know what to expect so we can move on with our lives and our crippled cameras can be sold with the least amount of loss.
Manual controls of video? I’ve said it before, it’s a still camera first and foremost. Canon should give manual configuration options to auto-ISO as well as let you set minimum shutter speeds for lens. (I can do this with my DMC-LX3, BTW.)
That said, if gimmicks sell, why not add video manual controls? Canon is sure to sell a full-frame raw RED-killer with full manual controls and intelligent auto controls in a proper movie camera form-factor in the VERY near future, probably in the 5K-8K range. (And probably APS-C versions for half that.) Giving the 5dMII the video controls to make the video gimmick better won’t hurt future sales. Most will migrate from the short-term 5DMII use to the Canon HD CineCam, esp. if they can make money doing so.
All we have to do now is wait… wait… wait…
win
I dont think Nikon has made any video cameras outside it being an added feature on their still line since the Video 8 camcorder in the 1980’s and even that was a Kyocera rebranded.
720p is a tease, a useless video gimmick to be sure, but the Full HD video look on the 5D2 is beautiful – hard to honestly call that a gimmick – like a popup flash or something.
As for Canon making RED killer? Only after the alien invasion body snatching begins and Canon decides to develop an 8k video camera for the tiniest market on the planet while the rest of the world just wants their video to look good on their under 2k HDTV and not have to spend $20,000 on an editing workstation that can barely manage an 8k workflow.
Canon reads this rumor site & I would presume they sometimes get stuff posted to judge reactions. This one rumor has gotten close to 100 posts! Come on Canon, this feature would be a HUGE hit!
This article was published 14 days too late.
I’ve had very few problems with any of my 8 EOS cameras, and when I have they fixed it quickly. But what you’re complaining about is not a “broken” issue, it is not an issue like a misfunctioning AF like on the 1D3, but a lack of features that you say Canon tricked you about, you said you were “fooled” by them IN THE FACE OF TONS OF PRESS MAKING IT CLEAR IT DIDNT HAVE MANUAL CONTROL AND EXACTLY HOW YOU HAD TO TRICK THE CAMERA USING AE LOCK TO CONTROL DOF. If you bought one ignoring all that and expecting features every reviewer said were not there then that was your own foolishness.
Also, if the stated limitations of the 5D2 were not something you wanted to own, you should have done what I and many others did after reading what a pain it is to use for video shooting: WAIT for the next model or until they get the features on it that you want. I’m not going to buy a 5D2 as the video feature is not up to what I’d want to use it for, and as a still camera I’m happy with what I have already. I borrowed a 5D2 for a while just to make sure, and while I love the video it made, I’m not going to spend money on it until it get’s better. But claiming Canon decieved, tricked or fooled you is just not accurate. The camera has it’s shortcomings, totally, but it is what it is and there was no tricking going on and you know it.
lol – Canon works with a small network of pros who they test new cameras/lenses out on (how do you think Vincent got one with enough time to shoot a production with it long before the public even knew about it?).
I doubt Canon cares about all the whining, mis-information, and crazy accusations of Canon boogie-men hiding in the closets to secretly disable features and hobble their products to the consumers they clearly hate.
The HACKERS ARE SLEEPING??? come on! Of course canon will not put 24 or 25fps… Get real!
the tests are on Iron Man 2. Second Unit.
Still same old. Man or man canon.
Why won’t they just give manual control? The thing is basically broken. ANyone can tell you this. Moronic corporate bureaucracy. As we get OLDER, waiting to make more films and projects, they sleep on amazing technology. It is TRULY depressing.
Spoke to Canon Netherlands today about 25p firmware fix for the 5DMk2. They’ve had numerous calls about the issue but say they know of no plans from Canon HQ to develop / release any such firmware update. They even agreed with me that it was bizarre to miss out on many thousands of units potentially sold in Europe, but they had no information that anything is in the pipeline. They did mention that such a change might come in a new model, but again, speculative. I put the phone down mystified and stunned.
InfoTrends predicts that by 2010 the U.S. market will account for 81 percent of digital camera sales and about 21 million units, that means the rest of the world makes up the other 19%, 25p is not a big priority.
Not so for cams like the 5DMk2. It has to be more even between the US and the rest of the world than 81 / 19.
Fact is that Canon could have implemented it at a cost they would have recouped in the first week of sales.
Their sheer indifference to the many many Canon users who want 25p WILL cost them brand loyalty. It’s hard to see any logic in their actions here except corporate bureacratic marketing-driven profit maximisation. No matter how happy we should be with the excellence of the 5DMk2 as a photo camera…..
Even with “full manual control” for video, it is important to understand that video at 30fps should be shot between 1/33s and 1/125s in order to give the illusion of motion. Once you open the aperture up fully in daylight, you’re going to have simply a series of pictures rather than fluid motion with the high shutter speeds.
ND Filters are very commonly used to reduce the amount of light entering the lens. Singh-Ray has an excellent (although thick) Var-Duo-ND which lets you adjust the intensity of the ND filter.
lol ok, have no idea where you got those statistics from, but I seriously doubt 5D2 sales are an even split. As for brand loyalty what are you gonna do, buy a 720p Nikon that doesn’t come close to the 5D2 video?
David: your statistics are for digital camera sales. 25p is in relation to the video functionality of the 5D2. It cannot accurately fall into the category of “digital camera” in regards to worldwide sales. Because of the 5D2’s unique video functionality, it is in a category of its own. I don’t entirely agree that it is a 50/50 split, but it sure isn’t a 81/19.
The 5D2 is a digital camera, and falls into that category. I see no reason to believe the 5D2 would somehow sell dramatically more than any other digital camera outside the U.S. or why the percentages would be singnificantly different. If they are, show me the numbers. The implication/assumption is that somehow Europeans buy DSLR’s but the USA buys more point and shoots? I see no evidence of that.
I did not say that the 5D2 is not a digital camera. I am pointing out how it cannot be generalized with all other digital cameras because of its video feature. There are photographers. There are videographers. Some videographers are looking for a camera that shoots 1080p on a full frame sensor. Therefore, the market of the 5D2 is the sum of videographers and photographers. The statistics which you supplied apply only to the market “digital cameras”, which is solely photographers. I am only pointing out that your statistics are not applicable. I never implied or assumed that “somehow Europeans buy DSLR’s but the USA buys more point and shoots”.
I still dont see how that inherently changes the purchaing percentages.
There are people who are purchasing the 5D2 solely for its video functionality. The statistics you supplied account for people purchasing digital cameras without video functionality. The 5D2 has a broader market than just photography, a unique market that is different than the market of digital cameras. The professional quality of the video on the 5D2 places it outside of the realm of a digital camera, even though that is what the device primarily is. Therefore, your statistics which apply exclusively to digital cameras, are inapplicable.
David, let me break it down further. It is critical that you see this:
-The 5D Mark II is a digital camera.
-According to you, “InfoTrends predicts that by 2010 the U.S. market will account for 81 percent of digital camera sales and about 21 million units”
-According to InfoTrends, a digital camera is a camera with an electronic sensor
-InfoTrends does not distinguish between still and video capability in their statistics of digital cameras. They only present four categories: Toy cameras (under $75, up to 3 megapixels), Point-and-shoot (under $1000, non-changeable lens), Consumer Digital SLR (under $1500) Professional Digital SLR (over $1500)
-The 5D Mark II has video capability
-The 5D Mark II is not accurately represented by InfoTrends because its market is larger than the exclusive market of digital cameras
-Therefore, you cannot use InfoTrends’ statistics on digital cameras when speaking about the video functionality of the 5D2.
he’s right david. “digital cameras” is a very broad makret the vast majority of which is point and shoots (yay consuimerism) but the SLR market is a lot more evenly split. plus even if we follow your statistically inaccurate (yes, my college education tells me this term is valid here) thats still almost 1/5 prospective customers that can’t use the video and will walk away.
So you’re saying that Europeans buy more video cameras and therefore represent a larger market share than they do for still cameras? That makes no sense to me. For all you know there are a higher percentage of video camera buyers in the USA and the numbers for the 5D2 might very well slanted even more to the US market.
He’s not right Zac. He’s making baseless assumptions that Europeans somehow are buying more video cameras as a percentage than the US. If that is so, great, show the real numbers not assumptions as assumptions are inherently stastically inaccurate. I’m the only who’s posted projected numbers of any sort from a research group. While I’m not all too happy the USA is the biggest consumer group on the planet, by far, you can’t just assume the percentages drastically drop just because the 5D2 also has video buyers.
Your line of reasoning makes perfect sense until you get to the last two points. You have no idea if the fact that the 5D2 having video functionality changes the percentages at all – it’s just your guess.
Furthermore, what about all the video features on all the point and shoot cameras, many of which produce fairly decent standard and HD video too? By your logic almost no digital cameras made can fit into the category of digital camera Infotrends is using because almost all of them have video features.
Also, my previous point that almost all digital cameras made also have video features makes his whole argument that the 5D2 having video somehow makes it sell differently to all the other digital cameras that offer video completely silly.
“InfoTrends predicts that by 2010 the U.S. market will account for 81 percent of digital camera sales …”
Europe is as big as the US in population and just as tech savy. What about Japan, China, India …?
Come on this is just a troll or a very nonsensical prediction.
David. Tell me where I said “that Europeans somehow are buying more video cameras as a percentage than the US”. And show me the blogs about professionals raving about the great HD capabilities of the G10, or any other point-and-shoot and talking about its applications to large-scale productions. The video capability of the 5D2 is not a novelty, it is a game changer. The closest full frame 1080p videocamera is over $10000. Because of this, the video functionality is taken much more seriously, and is the reason why some people purchase the camera. Show me evidence that a significant amount of people are purchasing point-and-shoots solely for their video functionality. Show me the professional applications of the video function on a point-and-shoot.
“You have no idea if the fact that the 5D2 having video functionality changes the percentages at all – it’s just your guess.”
David- you have no idea that the fact that the 5D2 having video functionality *doesn’t* change the percentages at all. It is not my guess. I only said that your statistics are inapplicable sine you are assuming that it doesn’t change the statistics. Just because you can go find some statistic does not mean it is useful in your argument. Also, please provide the link to your statistics; I spend hours searching for them and could not find them.
dbs, you claimed the percentages “sure isn’t a 81/19” as well as the Infotrend category of digital camera does not apply to the 5D2 sales.
The fact that the 5D2 offers better video quality does not somehow take it out of the category of digital camera nor does is it inherently skew the statistics unless you can show it really does and why – which you have not. You’ve offered no reason for your assertion other than your opinion that this feature alone makes the number no longer aplicable to this camera.
DSLR sales are about 25% of the market, camcorder sales are only 16% of the market, P&S is 52% of the market. If people are now suddenly buying the 5D2 instead of a camcorder that would increase the DLSR sales over that market globally – but it does address your claim it changes the percentages between the US and world market sales.
So, for your claim to be true, you have to account for WHY suddenly the rest of the world is suddenly buying 5D2’s at a much bigger percentage than the U.S.
See my above post as there’s no room to reply to yours directly.
Population size does not necessarily equate to spending habits – and I’ve lived in Europe and can say my observation is that they do not spend money like Americans and have no equivelent to identifiable big spending market segments like Soccermoms – of whom you might notice are often totting entry level DSLR’s to school events now instead of compact P&S’s.
But I’m sure the folks at Infotrends would be happy to know their economic predictions are nonsensical because you said so.
dbs, I reread my comment and perhaps I’m not being clear.
Your claim is that because the 5D2 has great HD video the projected numbers of U.S. camera sales being 81% of the world digital camera sales can not apply. Yet you have no explaination for WHY that would be. The implication of your claim is that somehow mysteriously the video feature on the 5D2 means a smaller percentage of US sales. For your assertion to be true, please explain why the U.S. sales of the 5D2 would somehow dramatically drop compared to the rest of the world.
Are you saying the rest of the world is more sophisticated and therefore would buy more 5D2’s than Americans? Are you saying there are more indie film makers outside the USA and therefore they are skewing the sales numbers lower for the U.S.? Just saying it has 1080p video better than other cameras does not explain your asserted drop in percent of 5D2 sales in the U.S. compared to the rest of the world. If the U.S. makes up 81% of digital camera sales in 2010 how do you explain the number being only 50%, or 60% or whatever difference you saying the 5D2 must be that is lower than 81%? Why does having a video feature mean less U.S. compared to the rest of the world?
I did not assert there to be a drop in US sales for the 5D2. But, since your statistics are a percentage, an increase in non-US sales would lower the percentage of US sales. I am not calling this fact. I am only stating that your statistics are not applicable to your argument. I do not know where you are getting your quotes from me, you seem to be accusing me of saying things I never did. It is one thing for me to say something, and another thing for you to wrongly infer something from what I said.
Also, you have not provided a link to your facts. Please do so, so that I can verify what you are asserting.
For the third time:
-The next closest rival to the 5D2’s full frame 1080p capabilities is over $10000
-Such a fact attracts several film makers to the 5D2
-Before the 5D2, professional film makers would not purchase a professional DSLR since it did not suite their needs (it could not record video at professional standards).
-Now, since the release of the 5D2, professional film makers are purchasing 5D2’s for the device’s video capability
-Professional film makers do not make up the market for “digital cameras”, since their primary purchases are in the interest of video functionality
-InfoTrends does not account for video functionality in their statistics
-Therefore, your statistics are of no use when arguing about the video functionality of the 5D2
When you fail to state a reason for your claim the 5D2 somehow does not fit in the projected digital camera sales percetnages then I’m left to specualte what your reasons are, and if you will notice I made no accusations but asked you questions like “So you’re saying that Europeans buy more video cameras and therefore represent a larger market share than they do for still cameras?” Notice the question mark there? If that’s not the reason then state one.
It’s your claim (dbs) the 5D2 sales percentage must be different than the rest of the digital camera sales percentages for the U.S. and the world. I want to know why? I’ve asked repeatedly if the reason is this or that, and all you can say is that I’m putting words in your mouth. So please state your reason rather that just saying I’m wrong and misquoting you.
As for the quote “In all, however, the U.S. consumer digital camera market continues to dominate the market and grow. By 2010, InfoTrends predicts that by 2010 the U.S. market will account for 81 percent of digital camera sales and about 21 million units.”
It’s from a Feb. 1, 2008 article by Jennifer Nelson quoting Ed Lee, Director of the U.S. Consumer Imaging Services at InfoTrends, at the 2008 PMA.
and for the third time…
dbs, your bullet list does not provide any explanation why the percentage of sales of the 5D2 would change or why the 5D2 would sell at a lessor percentage than other digital cameras.
The fact that it has 1080p video does not explain why your assertion the rest of the world would be buying a greater percentage of the 5D2 than what is seen in the general digital camera market and why the percentage of U.S. 5D2 sales would be lower JUST FOR THAT ONE CAMERA.
WHY?
David, I still cannot find your statistics. However, while searching, I came across this:
“InfoTrends Inc., Weymouth, Mass., reports Western Europe’s photo merchandise market will more than double in size from 2008 to 2013, exceeding US$900 million in revenues by the end of this period. Mothers (defined as females between the ages of 25 and 44 with children under age 12) will account for a sizable portion of this revenue. While about 22 percent of total respondents reported purchasing photo merchandise items in the past year, 30 percent of mothers stated they had done so. Nevertheless, to access this lucrative consumer segment, professionals in the photo merchandise space must understand their motivations and behaviours as they differ significantly from that of the general population.”
-The market is indeed changing, with a shift away from the U.S. market. Your own sources say this.
Oh, and another:
“InfoTrends Western Europe largest camera market : Digital camera unit sales reached 22.5 million units in Western Europe in 2004 and the market is expected to grow by 32% in 2005, reaching 29.8 million units by year end. Although average selling prices for digital cameras declined in 2004, revenues increased by a staggering 42%. Revenues are expected to continue to increase by 29% in 2005 to total just over €10 billion. This makes Western Europe the largest digital camera market worldwide in terms of units sold and revenue. Household penetration of digital cameras remains quite low, reaching 26% in 2004. First time buyers dominated the market, representing 85% of all digital camera purchases.”
http://www.letsgodigital.org/en/2005/infotrends/review1.html
dbs, the article you are quoting is not about digital camera sales but photo sharing/printing services online and via kiosks. Many explanations can be given as to why such services might be higher in Europe, such as less of an inclination to buy photo printers and print their own photos and spend money on paper and ink than perhaps buyers in the U.S. might be more inclined to do than go to a kiosk. In any case, the numbers here do not represent camera sales.
Then give me the exact URL to your quotes.
This is a 2005 article you are quoting – a four year old prediction about 2005 sales.
Here’s a quote from 2009, March 26, By Pradeep Thanvi titled “Growing Market of Digital Camera”
“The largest market for digital cameras is North America. Japan is second largest for digital still cameras and Europe takes the third for digital video cameras.”
So as of 2009,
Japan has 126 million people,
Europe has 830.4 million,
yet digital camera sales in Japan are greater than Europe!!!
David, where is the URL to your original statistics?
tell me the reason you feel the rest of the world will buy more 5D2’s as a percentage than the rest of the cameras and I’ll give you the link
Answer my question as to your reason you think the 5D2 non-USA sales percentages will be different for that one camera first – and dont recopy your bullet list because it doesn’t answer my question or explain why the video capability will lower the percentage of sales in the USA compared to the rest of the world.
OMG!!! Stop it already. You both have an opinion. Just leave it alone. Will they add different framerates to the 5DMKII? Maybe, Maybe not. You’re continuing arguments (David and dbs) are helping nothing but your own egos. It’s good to have a constructive argument, but that was gone after your first post. Just drop it already.
well maybe our egos are bored…lol
I’m glad to see someone with a sense of humor. I usually don’t post much, but I hate comment wars. Nothing good comes of them. I only really care because I enjoy reading this blog and comments about the 5D. Cheers and have a good day!
I’ve lived in Europe for the last 15 years and was born in America which I visit several times a year. And I have not seen any more digital cameras in America than Europe.
There is no URL. He is making up the numbers. It is a troll.
I did say there were more digital cameras in America. I said Americas and Europeans spend money differently. Do you see people driving huge SUV’s in Europe like Americans? I was in Europe 6 months ago visiting friends with kids and did not see any mom’s driving around in SUV’s totting DSLR’s to take pictures at their kids after school and on weekend activities like I do when I go to my kids activities. If you don’t see a difference in how Americans and Europeans spend money you are blind.
Actually anyone with a web browser and google.com can easily find the page from all the info I gave about the quote. I think he did find it and realized it said exactly what I said it says. But if you think you’re little troll comment is going to manipulate me into pasting it here then keep dreaming. I said I would post it if he answered the question I asked repeatedly and he repeatedly avoided answering.
That should have said “I did not say there were more digital cameras in America”
I saw it with my eyes……! The 5d2 with manual control for video. I can’t say where I work but I work in the movies set. the dp is the same guy who got yell at by the actor christian bale. this camera has been tested and its working. the only reason the canon usa guys upgraded this camera was that this dp was using nikor lens to shoot his projects and when they found out they agree to update the four camera that he personally own so he would use canon lens.
most of you guys don’t know is that this camera is been use for off the wall angles shoots ie helmet cam, body mount cam, or hard to fit areas where film cameras can’t get to. Because in real film/movies there is always a need to pull focus and this camera can’t be pull. So focus is set for hyperfocal. also workflow is a major problem for this camera. Mostly this camera has been use for web videos for film studios, not for scenes in real movies. Because it don’t have 24p or really it should be 23.97 fps. canon are listening but only to big guys with big budgets……
So you’re saying Canon is just holding back all the 5D2’s from manual control because they are not rich?
no, but if you have a high profile project and have high people at your corner things get done……start looking for webasodes of the new terminator. there should be five and it was shot with 5d2.
also i hear this from third hand, that the canon guys had no idea that this 5d2 was going to take off like this in the film/movies industry. when every dp saw the size of this sensor and what it looks like, they all jump into it. the sensor is bigger than any digital motion picture cameras out there.
Ahaan… I will follow.
it was for IronMan 2, they were used for shooting inside the race cars on actors faces. Canon 5D’s and 7D’s are being used on Secretariat also
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Bought the 5d Mark II earlier this year. I’m a non-professional and first time full frame user. I’ve used a variety of cameras but not Nikon or Canon. I’ve EF lenses and have been using the camera for portraiture and scenic, in city, country, during winter and summer and am thrilled with the results (the enlargements are great). The movie function wasn’t an issue for me as, although I’ve tried it with good results, I could’ve done without it. It’s a little on the heavy side with the distance lenses which took a bit of getting accustomed to. No comment on price as, in my opinion, you often get what you pay for and I’m totally pleased. I work a lot in manual but I’ve not had any problem with the autofocus either. However, I did find it a little complicated at first – my problem not the mark II’s.