5D Mark II Firmware Update in the Wild?

Fingers crossed. ;)

Nah, they can’t afford to save it. Nikon and others will be bringing the HD features, and that will force Canon to do it also; Canon actually wins by doing it first.

Me, I have no use at all for video features, but that’s the market trend there is absolutely no way to avoid it. HD video will be in just about every medium to high end DSLR very shortly.

Even the 500D has it. I mean really… the writing’s on the wall.

I’ll be holding out for higher ISO and lower noise, myself. :o)

This can be a VERY, but VERY good step for Canon… and doing first is always better for competition and customers perspective.

Let’s hope it is true and also comes soon to the customers.

If Manual Control for Video is implemented (probably some “Dedicated” manu) that not only will achieve the customers satisfaction and loyalty, but also enlarge the market for Canon 5D Mark II.

Let’s hope it’s true and also gives FULL manual control, just like in still mode (that the camera is fully capable of, since all settings are, so far, managed by an AE program)

Is this post is just a joke to test us?
What’s [CR?] ???

I don’t know why people care about the video thing. I never even enabled it. 10000 shutter releases and i don’t even know how to enable it …

Canon would definitely have the pros try out a major firmware update before going ‘live’ on such an update .. Especially on an update that is highly likely to be scrutinized if poorly executed! You can bet money that Canon is keeping a close watch on the market.

I Cant imagine that Vincent laforet (the guy from the night video’s with the 5D’s) used the 5D without manual control. So its definitly there, canon just has to release it for the public.

I want it badly, if only it was only apeture control.

You only take pictures and that’s perfectly fine.

But thoudsands (and I mean THOUSANDS) of people are using the video function.

Many of them even for professional purposes.

To record family moments is much easier to use a home camcorder, but for Serious or Professional videography this camera has Huge potential inside, still not delivered to the customers.

Just check some Forums & Blogs like:

www .cinema5d.com

www .planet5d.com

www .dvinfo.net

photography-on-the.net

www .5dfix.com

www .canon5dtips.com

Also check: 5dmark2.wordpress.com

and lot more.

Also sites like Vimeo have dedicated groups for the video capability of this camera.

Some designers & manufacturers like Zacuto and Redrock are selling gear dedicated to DSLR for video and filmmakers.

So this is Real, it is Serious.

Marcel said: “I Cant imagine that Vincent laforet (the guy from the night video’s with the 5D’s) used the 5D without manual control. ”

Vincent documented very clearly on his blog how he worked around not having manual control on the 5D II. Also, he shot that video BEFORE the 5D II was released about six months ago.

Are you suggesting that the preproduction camera Canon loaned him had manual video control yet he lied and said it didn’t?

What’s the news?
The earth is round and spins?

Althoug this is a rumors site, then at least bring some real news… Why no screenshot of the firmware version? That would make it a bit more believeble

I think this story is utter b*ll

Go to his site and you will find out how he did it.

I agree. To me, 24p IS a manual control.

The new firmware needs to do the following:

1) Add 25p. Half the world has PAL TVs. Hint: don’t insult half the market. (I’ll take 24p too, please – I’m not a PAL user.)

2) Let us control aperture in video mode. Everybody who is serious about video on the 5D is buying Nikon lenses, including me. (We submitted a 15 minute film to the Seattle International Film Festival a couple months ago – shot entirely on the 5D MkII.) Hint: don’t sell the other guy’s lenses.

3) Allow faster shutter speeds at higher ISOs. I’ve tested it. All video shot above the minimum ISO uses an actual 1/33 shutter speed, regardless of what’s displayed. Hint: 1/33 is too slow. Being tied to 100 ISO (200 with HTP enabled) is a shame.

4) Don’t make us reset everything between takes. We mess with the camera to get a setting. We lock it. We record. We stop. And now the camera forgets the exposure that we set. Hint: We look stupid enough shining lights into the lens. Don’t make us do this for each and every take.

I wouldn’t spend over $500 for a still cam – yet I bought the 5D MkII for $2,700, simply because of video. I hope the firmware update comes out before me lens budget is spent…

from a site i just read up on…

http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2009/04/searching-for-s.html

The camera also insists on setting exposure for you. The workaround in this case was to use exposure lock. Old time film SLR users will know the drill — point the camera (in auto) at something neutral in tone (the palm of your hand or some grass) and in the same light as what you are shooting. Press the exposure lock and re-frame the shot.

The posts go into full production details, too, and the director (named, appropriately enough, Andrew Disney) comments about the amazing image quality you get from the Canon:

The blacks are deeper, truer, fuller, than most any other camera I’ve shot on.

So is the 5DMkII the best video camera out there for indie filmmakers? Nope. Andrew is already looking at the next one:

But I think all these methods and workarounds with the camera will be obsolete pretty soon. The Panasonic GH1 should hopefully fix it all… I think that’s what we’ll shoot the feature on.

The focus is on apeture control because of the widely mentioned ability to control depth of field on the unit, which is still impossible to do without adjusting focal legnth and distance from the subject.

i wrote just that under the original comment – totally agree
give me a little more dynamic range and I’ll be UBER HAPPY
Already the best camera I’ve ever owned. And that is after the 1D and 1D2 (no slouches for their time) The internet just breeds silly expectations…
it’s at a point where the companies can’t win – if you read a nikon board it’s the same….everyone crying.

Why do you see a need for a dedicated menu?
There are buttons already in place for ISO, Aperture and Speed (same as the ones we use for stills).
The only need I see is for 24P, 25P or 30P but that could also be solved easily…

Half the world might have PAL but that does not equate to half the buyers. There is a reason the Canon global site features Canon USA first on the list in a bigger font – the USA is by far the biggest consumer market – 25p is nice but I don’t think it’s a top priority especialy as it’s a simple thing to import 24p onto a 25p timeline for editing.

Also, the 5D mkII is a first generation HD camera, and hoping a firmware update will add a ton of new features I would not be holding my breath for.

If this does indeed “fix” the video and add manual control and possibly 25 or 24p, then I can again become a Canon fan as it would not come off as something they were “forced” to allow us to have because of something the competition did. If however, these things come to fruition only after say Nikon would release such thing, then I would still be ticked at Canon for keeping something locked up which could have been released all along and only done so when their hand was forced.

If canon fixes the video limitations on this camera soon, they have another sale here.

How was anybody fooled when the 5D2 came out? Everything I read from Canon made it clear there were no manual controls on the HD feature and that there were limitations to it. Vincent Laforet also explained all the limitations of the camera and how he shot the wonderful video using it long before anyone could get the camera. So how was anyone fooled unless they bought it without researching or reading about it?

The 5D2 brought capability in HD video that did not exist before, it’s a first gen camera, and I’m sure Canon is already working on the next gen. But to whine and complain about features Canon never claimed the camera would have and saying they fooled people is far more misleading than what you accuse Canon of doing.

I am hoping for something simpler. I wish Canon releases adjustable Auto ISO. It seems very useful to me. It frees me from thinking about adjusting ISO and lets me take care of other things especially when quick reaction is necessary. However, the current Auto ISO imlementation is almost useless. It sticks to too low shutter speed for the focal length which easily blurs the image in low light which 5D mkII is good at. The blur is significant especially with a 21 megapixel sensor.

Couldn’t resist to register my complaint.

I couldn’t agree more. As much as I’d like the video controls to be upgraded from their current state of worthlessness, I trade the whole video feature for auto ISO that functioned in manual mode.

It can. In the case of Canon’s P&S line, at least a third party has enabled this capability.

http://chdk.wikia.com/

it is easier to implement FULL MANUAL Control than 24 or 25p, because the camera is ALREADY controlling the Aperture, Shutter and ISO settings for video with an automatic program. It does not requiere any modification to the codec algorythm and recording process.

In fact it’s more difficult to make a program to control those 3 values than allowing the user to set them freely.

Dedicated menu would make the video function easier to use and to skip for those who don’t want to use it. That is not specifically requiered to give full manual control, but was just a suggestion.

Most important is Full Manual Contrl. Without it you can not use the camera for serious purposes, you will have to trick everything always and try to get the same values in EVERY take. The worst thing is that CURRENTLY you don’t even know the exact settings used for video when you record, because the camera do not display them accurately. So making them equal in each scene or take is from very hard to almost impossible.

Feck the video! I wish Canon could magically update the AF!

This is pure BS,

Canon would never do such an update that would be admitting they were wrong and it will cannibalize their video line. This is a fan boy pipe-dream!

I think NAB next week would be a perfect time for Canon to come out with this update. You know they are going to be inundated with questions from everyone at this event and I am sure they need to have a plan. No better way to make the masses happy than to announce a video update.

Points 2,3 and 4 are fixed simply with FULL manual control (not only Aperture control, but FULL instead) to allow control over the three settings.

It is MUCH better to set the Aperture, Shutter speed and ISO manually than any other way or workaround. That is the most important thing.

The 24 and 25 fps is another story, and obviously a highly suggested feature too.

But without Full Manual control you can not get a serious use and workflow without having lot of troubles and needing tricks, using Nikon lenses, etc, etc…. and LOT of times being almost impossible anyway to use the camera for that serious purpose.

That was mentioned in the last link I posted above: 5dmark2.wordpress.com

that directly points to the author’s page.

i say again, as much as i hope for full manual controll, this would be the very first time for canon to add new functions to a camera by firmware. please correct me if i am wrong.

if it should happen i am afraid that it will be 50% update, like manual aperture controll, but no iso controll.
720p but no 25frames support.

etc.

let us pray!!

Annoying Canon fanboi

Word. They certainly do make more on their lenses than on their camera bodies.

If they give us manual control I will drink jenkem.

http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Jenkem

Actually this makes a lot of sense and it’s strange no one has presented this angle before…

Any cannibalization of their video line would be quickly taken care of by just …. improving their video line.

In the end I don’t think that Canon will totally blow all this good will generated by the great video that is possible with the 5d2. I don’t expect a total revamp of the firmware but things like manual aperture seem like an eventual no brainer.

Stark-Arts, I don’t know about a RED killer. RED is going after film makers offering 3K, 4K, 5K on up to 28K sensors! – a market Canon has never ever really pursued. Sure some indie shooters used their pro HDV line, and maybe some budget film makers will use the likes of the HFS10, but I just don’t see Canon making anything that will compete with a 28K sensor that is 100 times larger dimensions than full HD. Full HD is smaller than 2K. Canon is not going to make a RED killer and will let RED have their niche while they provide full HD to the other 99.99% of the market.

Of course full manual control will happen. I just dont think it will happen with a firmware update on the current 5DmkII.

Canon quite clearly claimed that the 5D MKII had manual control:

http://www.cinema5d.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=553

Uh, no, that is not what Canon said nor what the blog post you quoted quotes the aledged Canon white paper saying.

“unique depth of field control” does not say manual control, and you can use the exposure lock to open the aperature on EF lenses and create a non-typical “video look” from camcorders due to the EF lens selection that blow away fixed lens camcorders, such as a EF 85mm 1.2 L. No where does Canon say they are giving you manual control, nor did they say it was easy, and the fact they plastered Vincent’s video example (which drew all the atttention to the camera in the first place) along with his detailed description of the fact there is no manual control and how he overcame that, all over the media, makes any claims of Canon “tricking” people completely unfounded and sounding more like Nikon fanboi fodder trying to make up for Canon topping Nikon’s lame HD attempt.

Anyone claiming Canon lied or feels fooled by Canon about the lack of manual control on the HD feature of the 5D2 and actually bought one was simply a fool for not reading all the many write ups that were published long before the camera was even available.

Will the new firmware make me a cup of coffee?

That´s a feature i´d like.

Canon! Are you listening?

So if you agree with Canon, that there is depth of field control on the camera, tell me how you control (change) the depth of field mid-shot?

Yeah it’s available at Starbucks

JC, you really can’t imagine a use for this? Let me take two seconds to imagine a scenario. I’m shooting an outdoor event that requires a fast shutter speed. I want to maintain a nice background bokeh by using my lens wide open. Only problem is that the lighting conditions keep changing. With auto-ISO in manual mode I can lock in a shutter speed and aperture and let the ISO float to compensate for rapidly changing lighting conditions. Of course, you wouldn’t HAVE to use auto-ISO in manual mode. It would be an option — one that’s been available on Pentax DSLR’s at a fraction of the price of a 5D2 for a couple years. Nikon too.

Yea I agree with most of what you said. Especially the part about using it for serious apps. I’m very interested in using the cam for my underwater work. Thing is since the AF is soo poor I will need to be able to set an F16 aperture for most of my video work… Until the I don’t see the point in buying a 3000 bucks housing, and actually consider selling the Still cam altogether.
Another very interesting thing is what u said about the cam not giving the correct values for video. Is this just a small bug or does it mean that Canon’s still engineers have no idea how to control video modes? This could indeed mean that there will NEVER be any manual control. It really feels like Canon didn’t get their video and still engineers to work together! Then again it is a shame for our fav brand that they didn’t get the first video DSLR on the market!

since when does nikon offer pro video cams? U really got me lost there mate

Hmmm…let’s see…Canon is rumoured to increase the price of the 5D Mark II in North America soon, as they have done in other markets. Enabling full manual video through a firmware update will be a great way for many to justify the price increase. Clever move by Canon, if that’s indeed the strategy. This approach has worked very well for Sony and their PS3 platform.

Manual controls of video? I’ve said it before, it’s a still camera first and foremost. Canon should give manual configuration options to auto-ISO as well as let you set minimum shutter speeds for lens. (I can do this with my DMC-LX3, BTW.)

That said, if gimmicks sell, why not add video manual controls? Canon is sure to sell a full-frame raw RED-killer with full manual controls and intelligent auto controls in a proper movie camera form-factor in the VERY near future, probably in the 5K-8K range. (And probably APS-C versions for half that.) Giving the 5dMII the video controls to make the video gimmick better won’t hurt future sales. Most will migrate from the short-term 5DMII use to the Canon HD CineCam, esp. if they can make money doing so.

All we have to do now is wait… wait… wait…

I dont think Nikon has made any video cameras outside it being an added feature on their still line since the Video 8 camcorder in the 1980’s and even that was a Kyocera rebranded.

Canon reads this rumor site & I would presume they sometimes get stuff posted to judge reactions. This one rumor has gotten close to 100 posts! Come on Canon, this feature would be a HUGE hit!

I’ve had very few problems with any of my 8 EOS cameras, and when I have they fixed it quickly. But what you’re complaining about is not a “broken” issue, it is not an issue like a misfunctioning AF like on the 1D3, but a lack of features that you say Canon tricked you about, you said you were “fooled” by them IN THE FACE OF TONS OF PRESS MAKING IT CLEAR IT DIDNT HAVE MANUAL CONTROL AND EXACTLY HOW YOU HAD TO TRICK THE CAMERA USING AE LOCK TO CONTROL DOF. If you bought one ignoring all that and expecting features every reviewer said were not there then that was your own foolishness.

lol – Canon works with a small network of pros who they test new cameras/lenses out on (how do you think Vincent got one with enough time to shoot a production with it long before the public even knew about it?).

I doubt Canon cares about all the whining, mis-information, and crazy accusations of Canon boogie-men hiding in the closets to secretly disable features and hobble their products to the consumers they clearly hate.

the tests are on Iron Man 2. Second Unit.

Spoke to Canon Netherlands today about 25p firmware fix for the 5DMk2. They’ve had numerous calls about the issue but say they know of no plans from Canon HQ to develop / release any such firmware update. They even agreed with me that it was bizarre to miss out on many thousands of units potentially sold in Europe, but they had no information that anything is in the pipeline. They did mention that such a change might come in a new model, but again, speculative. I put the phone down mystified and stunned.

Not so for cams like the 5DMk2. It has to be more even between the US and the rest of the world than 81 / 19.

Fact is that Canon could have implemented it at a cost they would have recouped in the first week of sales.

Their sheer indifference to the many many Canon users who want 25p WILL cost them brand loyalty. It’s hard to see any logic in their actions here except corporate bureacratic marketing-driven profit maximisation. No matter how happy we should be with the excellence of the 5DMk2 as a photo camera…..

lol ok, have no idea where you got those statistics from, but I seriously doubt 5D2 sales are an even split. As for brand loyalty what are you gonna do, buy a 720p Nikon that doesn’t come close to the 5D2 video?

The 5D2 is a digital camera, and falls into that category. I see no reason to believe the 5D2 would somehow sell dramatically more than any other digital camera outside the U.S. or why the percentages would be singnificantly different. If they are, show me the numbers. The implication/assumption is that somehow Europeans buy DSLR’s but the USA buys more point and shoots? I see no evidence of that.

I still dont see how that inherently changes the purchaing percentages.

David, let me break it down further. It is critical that you see this:

-The 5D Mark II is a digital camera.
-According to you, “InfoTrends predicts that by 2010 the U.S. market will account for 81 percent of digital camera sales and about 21 million units”
-According to InfoTrends, a digital camera is a camera with an electronic sensor
-InfoTrends does not distinguish between still and video capability in their statistics of digital cameras. They only present four categories: Toy cameras (under $75, up to 3 megapixels), Point-and-shoot (under $1000, non-changeable lens), Consumer Digital SLR (under $1500) Professional Digital SLR (over $1500)
-The 5D Mark II has video capability
-The 5D Mark II is not accurately represented by InfoTrends because its market is larger than the exclusive market of digital cameras
-Therefore, you cannot use InfoTrends’ statistics on digital cameras when speaking about the video functionality of the 5D2.

So you’re saying that Europeans buy more video cameras and therefore represent a larger market share than they do for still cameras? That makes no sense to me. For all you know there are a higher percentage of video camera buyers in the USA and the numbers for the 5D2 might very well slanted even more to the US market.

Your line of reasoning makes perfect sense until you get to the last two points. You have no idea if the fact that the 5D2 having video functionality changes the percentages at all – it’s just your guess.

Furthermore, what about all the video features on all the point and shoot cameras, many of which produce fairly decent standard and HD video too? By your logic almost no digital cameras made can fit into the category of digital camera Infotrends is using because almost all of them have video features.

“InfoTrends predicts that by 2010 the U.S. market will account for 81 percent of digital camera sales …”

Europe is as big as the US in population and just as tech savy. What about Japan, China, India …?

Come on this is just a troll or a very nonsensical prediction.

dbs, you claimed the percentages “sure isn’t a 81/19” as well as the Infotrend category of digital camera does not apply to the 5D2 sales.

The fact that the 5D2 offers better video quality does not somehow take it out of the category of digital camera nor does is it inherently skew the statistics unless you can show it really does and why – which you have not. You’ve offered no reason for your assertion other than your opinion that this feature alone makes the number no longer aplicable to this camera.

DSLR sales are about 25% of the market, camcorder sales are only 16% of the market, P&S is 52% of the market. If people are now suddenly buying the 5D2 instead of a camcorder that would increase the DLSR sales over that market globally – but it does address your claim it changes the percentages between the US and world market sales.

So, for your claim to be true, you have to account for WHY suddenly the rest of the world is suddenly buying 5D2’s at a much bigger percentage than the U.S.

Population size does not necessarily equate to spending habits – and I’ve lived in Europe and can say my observation is that they do not spend money like Americans and have no equivelent to identifiable big spending market segments like Soccermoms – of whom you might notice are often totting entry level DSLR’s to school events now instead of compact P&S’s.

But I’m sure the folks at Infotrends would be happy to know their economic predictions are nonsensical because you said so.

I did not assert there to be a drop in US sales for the 5D2. But, since your statistics are a percentage, an increase in non-US sales would lower the percentage of US sales. I am not calling this fact. I am only stating that your statistics are not applicable to your argument. I do not know where you are getting your quotes from me, you seem to be accusing me of saying things I never did. It is one thing for me to say something, and another thing for you to wrongly infer something from what I said.

For the third time:
-The next closest rival to the 5D2’s full frame 1080p capabilities is over $10000
-Such a fact attracts several film makers to the 5D2
-Before the 5D2, professional film makers would not purchase a professional DSLR since it did not suite their needs (it could not record video at professional standards).
-Now, since the release of the 5D2, professional film makers are purchasing 5D2’s for the device’s video capability
-Professional film makers do not make up the market for “digital cameras”, since their primary purchases are in the interest of video functionality
-InfoTrends does not account for video functionality in their statistics
-Therefore, your statistics are of no use when arguing about the video functionality of the 5D2

and for the third time…

dbs, your bullet list does not provide any explanation why the percentage of sales of the 5D2 would change or why the 5D2 would sell at a lessor percentage than other digital cameras.

The fact that it has 1080p video does not explain why your assertion the rest of the world would be buying a greater percentage of the 5D2 than what is seen in the general digital camera market and why the percentage of U.S. 5D2 sales would be lower JUST FOR THAT ONE CAMERA.

WHY?

Oh, and another:

“InfoTrends Western Europe largest camera market : Digital camera unit sales reached 22.5 million units in Western Europe in 2004 and the market is expected to grow by 32% in 2005, reaching 29.8 million units by year end. Although average selling prices for digital cameras declined in 2004, revenues increased by a staggering 42%. Revenues are expected to continue to increase by 29% in 2005 to total just over €10 billion. This makes Western Europe the largest digital camera market worldwide in terms of units sold and revenue. Household penetration of digital cameras remains quite low, reaching 26% in 2004. First time buyers dominated the market, representing 85% of all digital camera purchases.”

http://www.letsgodigital.org/en/2005/infotrends/review1.html

Then give me the exact URL to your quotes.

David, where is the URL to your original statistics?

Answer my question as to your reason you think the 5D2 non-USA sales percentages will be different for that one camera first – and dont recopy your bullet list because it doesn’t answer my question or explain why the video capability will lower the percentage of sales in the USA compared to the rest of the world.

well maybe our egos are bored…lol

I’ve lived in Europe for the last 15 years and was born in America which I visit several times a year. And I have not seen any more digital cameras in America than Europe.

I did say there were more digital cameras in America. I said Americas and Europeans spend money differently. Do you see people driving huge SUV’s in Europe like Americans? I was in Europe 6 months ago visiting friends with kids and did not see any mom’s driving around in SUV’s totting DSLR’s to take pictures at their kids after school and on weekend activities like I do when I go to my kids activities. If you don’t see a difference in how Americans and Europeans spend money you are blind.

That should have said “I did not say there were more digital cameras in America”

So you’re saying Canon is just holding back all the 5D2’s from manual control because they are not rich?

also i hear this from third hand, that the canon guys had no idea that this 5d2 was going to take off like this in the film/movies industry. when every dp saw the size of this sensor and what it looks like, they all jump into it. the sensor is bigger than any digital motion picture cameras out there.

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