7D & Lens Pictures [CR3]

Well this is cool. I still can’t see anything about the sensor on the box. Then again, I cannot read Japanese. :)

“19” — that means 19 selectable focus points?? like 1d mark III?

also.. it’s not even Japanese..
it’s Chinese….
There is no way i would trust Chinese box… :)

7D

18 MP
Dual Digic 4
8 fps
19 AF points
ISO 6400
3 in LCD
Video
guessing APS-C from the lens.

Nope! Digital horizon is my guess… like in the Pentax K-7

I guess the lens is 15-85 f/3.5-5.6 IS USM.
I have read a larger version of this picture

oh, forgot to write, 100% viewfinder coverage

My mistake – I originally read this on a Korean page.. The text in the images does look like Chinese.

would be a real D300 killer depending on the price.

also Full HD

Tell me, where on this poster/box does it say 18 MP. I only see 1800.. (dont know what that should mean)

18MP on a crop sensor? I can’t say I’m thrilled.

It says 1800万… which is in Chinese/Japanese how they　refer to megapixels. ^^

just one question: why I cannot see the gold strip on the 2 lens ?
does that mean they won’t be usm ? then it’s a big step backward from the 17-85

am I wrong ?

19 AF points ALL CROSS TYPE

Flash?

That’s where I saw it

You guys think it’s the standard 9 af points in the diamond pattern, 6 hidden in the center like the mk2, and perhaps 4 on the corners to make a box instead of diamond? That would make rule of thirds focusing so much easier. I’d also bet on all selectable points being cross-type.

This is going to be awesome, but I would imagine they’ll charge more than $2k for it, and because it’s probably aps-c, I won’t regret just having bought the mk2 :)

Gosh, the higher the CR-rate gets, the more I got a feeling like a huge mountain is going to bear a little tiny mouse. A kind of disappointment for the serious DSLR-users …
Next week we will see …

I don’t believe that this box is real.

Two reasons:

1st) The product would be available before it was announced.

2nd) The camera is not shown in full and canon has not done that ever with its DSLR-cameras so far.

In short: hoax.

The shape of the pentaprism looks like a 40D or 50D. But you are right, I don’t see a gap where the flash should be.

Maybe the flash commander is RF?!

I think we can all agree this is a hoax.

Significant box style departure and poor timing

The specs seem at least plausable though

This is not a box, it is most probably a Chinese traditional poster for the Hong Kong market. I did remember the Nikon D5000 poster appearing days after it’s release, so I don’t see why this is not real. :)

I don’t know that an RF flash commander is possible as the current flash generation uses IR for communication.

+1. WTF?

This isn’t a box.. It’s obviously a poster.

I am starting to think that it’s a hoax though.

I was thinking it looked more like a poster than a box as well.

I don’t think it’s a hoax. I believe that this is a poster of some sort. Like the kind you would place i a shop window or something. If you look at the egde where the side meets the top (if it were a box), you’ll see that it is very rounded with no cuts to make an opening. Also: You can see that the image repeats itself on the right side. Not something you would see on a box… But the camera and specs are real, I think.

Forget above reply ;-(

there are 12 icons on the poster, left to right:

1 – 18mpix

2 – dual diginc 4

3 – 8 fps

4 – 19 af points

5 – iso 6400 max

6 – 63 metering zones

7 – 100% viewfinder

8 – ???????????

9 – electronic level

10 – 3 inch LCD

11 – video

12 – ???????????

Who can get 8 and 12?

It is Chinese

I liked yesterday’s specs better, but who knows what tomorrow will bring?

It is the way they write 18mp in Chinese

Yeah, looks like it. GREAT, now that I have bought a flash shoe mounted level :-)

Can a 18mp crop have even compare to the full frame 5d ii as far as iso goes and noice? Has there been that much of an advancement in sensor tech in a year or maybe the chatter about the improved iso of this model is not right?

It was about time Canon gives us a 100% viewfinder, don’t you think?

8 is intelligent something (optics or viewfinder)

12 is liveview

Especially those lenses. Yuk!

Is there anything on the box indicating sensor size? Can anyone translate the chinese, etc?

If this is a FF it certainly will cost more than the 5d ii. If a 1.6 maybe under $2,000?

Hong kong usually has english on the box too

That is correct. It means 1,800 x 10,000 pixels in Chinese. That gives us 18Mp.

The poster shows two 7-series cameras – maybe there will be a 7D (speed demon) and a 7Ds (affordable FF)?

I hope they really have high ISO performance under control if the 18MP is true. Everything else looks fine for me. I had always wanted an artificial horizon since I have a nasty tendency to slightly mess up landscape shots by minor tilting.

If it now ends up being <=1800€, I am in.

It is definitely an EF-S camera because you can see the 15-85 IS USM lens mounted on it.

I guess 8 is something to do with the viewfinder because it has the same box icon around it

18 MP… disappointing to say the least. What happened to Canon’s so-called renewed focus on image quality??

I still don’t believe a one-digit-D will ever have a crop sensor.

second tt

That is the real kicker. From the specs, I am starting to believe that the Best Buy rumored price might be true, which puts it well out of the D300S price range.

it’s certainly a 1.6.
there is the new EFs 15-85mm on it, and the prismbox is too small for ff…

Definitely 1.6 crop because of the EF-S 15-85 mounted on it.

What if it where FF? Or APS-H?

So the 1d having a crop sensor for the last 8 years doesnt disuade you at all from that statement then?

Its got an EF-S lens mounted on it.

I think that tells you what it is.

Other reasons it’s likely EFS

100% viewfinder. Why is this chest-beating if you are FF. This is a boast if you are crop.

18MP, 8FPS, HD Video, 19 cross-type AF. Wouldn’t this gut demand for the 5D mkii?

TWO (not just one) new EFS lenses.

Its got to be crop

I can’t imagine using anything less that an F/2.8 aperture for sports…

Can anyone read what it says under the little video camera icon? Is there anything there about, um

MANUAL VIDEO CONTROL?

Because that’s kind of a biggie

I agree with that, but I’m only spitting back what the text says.

the new 15-85 means that they will discontinue the 17-85?

8 – “smart” optical viewfinder (i can’t read the fine print inside the box)

10 – it says “LCD II” (OLED?)

12 – Live view

Me too, I was hoping that 8 was the MP count! Why do camera manufacturers keep giving us more and more and more?? We don’t need it!

It’s 8 MP and 18 FPS!!!!

You are all lost in translation with the 18 mp and 8fps version!!!

I hope so.

At least wait for the camera to be reviewed by someone. Funny how so many people here think they know more than Canon engineers what an APS-C sized sensor is capable of.

For me 8 would have been too low.. I’d have been happy with a solid 12MP sensor.

Agreed!

You’re basing this on what exactly?

If this is truely a sports/wildlife camera, I guess there is no real need for a pop up flash, although itbsure is handy for the “consumer” who uses the camera for muliple purposes.

Could the poster just be a 5d ii body, where they put in a 7?

+1

where do u see dual for the DIgic 4? where do u see the resolution on the box?

+10

The viewfinder would be TINY.

Mirrors don’t move when shooting bursts, only the curtain does.

You still sacrifice dynamic range, and noise reduction smears out the details. Not to mention that there will basically be no zoom lenses that can keep up with it anymore.

+1 for it beeing a poster and not photoshopped afterwards, but might also be a fake photoshoped poster, made either from real spec from canon and old 50D (or other) picture :=)

(or completely guessed feature)

true, but i kinda wanted it to go down or at least stay at 15, the less pixels the better… lets say they get a really good image at 18, if the lower it to 15 with the same technology the pixels get bigger and there should be even less errors.

hard to believe that they could screw it up again if it’s true… thinking of the 50D here. We could forgive the 50D since it’s a xxD, but screwing up a xD on MP doesn’t sound right to me.

I still hope it’s APS-H with mountable EF-S (to explain the picture on the poster)… is it ok to dream out loud !?

…and made a full frame sensor that works with ef-s lenses!

now wouldn’t THAT be a bummer!

Me too, for sure . . . the more I look at the D300s and its 12mp, the more I’m seriously considering switching. I was just saying that I’d prefer 8 to 18 =)

FF, 18MP, 8fps, EF-S compatible AND cheaper than 5D MkII?
NEVER! That would be too good to be true.

You could still resize your images which will also reduce noise.

The chinese character above the Digic 4 means dual. Also the character in Japanese means “futa” which is also means two.

And sony just released A850 wich is FF AND can accept Cropped (sony style) lens in APS-C mode (read on dpreview), canon can do same trick, allowing all lens to be mounted on every new 2009+ model. Thats sounds like wishlist, but hey :)

Man, you don’t know much, do you?
xxDs use prisms, NOT mirrors.

Nikon did the same – you can use DX lenses with the D700.

Does anyone else think that the 15-85 lens looks kind of strange? It seems to have a narrow control ring close to the camera body and a wider ring farther out. So either they’ve reversed the positions of the zoom and manual focus rings compared to all other Canon zoom lenses, or they’ve made the zoom lens ridiculously narrow.

Yeah, I can’t argue with you there.

Ok guys

Chinese simplified, from PRC…I can be of some use here.
China is one of the biggest market for Canon.

Let’s translate a bit

倍速进化 on the title (Bei su jin hua) means “an even quicker evolution”

then 视界 (shijie) means “horizon” but in the meaning, I think cannot be “horizon control”…but more “viewable screen”…100% to trump the D300s…

The rest is difficult to read and I had terrible week, I need to sleep. TOmorrow I’ll check If I can get more details…I found an image but Again…no contact email to the venerable owner of CR

Stop crying like a baby and wait to see some test results. 18MP doesn’t mean it’s going to be crap.

just look above ! After the image is too bad

Good evening

Darn. The MTF charts don’t look any better than their existing lenses. 15-85 doesn’t look any better than 17-85 and 18-135 not any better than 18-200 (in which case, why does this lens exist?)

price??

I think the 2nd to last one is the new direct upload to facebook button. ;-)

yeah, but look on the bright side, apart from the way too many megapixels it seems to be a great camera. So Canon has nearly figured it out. This is very nearly a XXD version of a 1D body, just too many pixels. Hey, who would have guessed just a few months ago that Canon would give 18 MP 8 fps to a prosumer body? not I, I’m impressed so far, I just wish that the people who decided on pixel count for G11 from the G10 had been the ones who decided on pixel count for this camera.

Not really. Better sensor resolution means better sensor resolution, period. All lenses, both great and poor, will profit from this resolution increase.

As for the noise, it may be bigger at pixel level (100% crop) but at image level it will be at least the same as previous cameras (probably better).

he meant XXXD, dont be a doosh

Clown. The 1D has a crop sensor.

I can read Chinese and here is what the box said from

left to right

First row:

18MP, Dual Digic 4, 8ps, All cross 19 AF, ISO 6400, (Last one is not clear enough to read)

Second row:

100% view area, Smart something (not clear), (not clear enough to read), 3 inch LCD, EOS Movie capture, Live View

A dream most likely.

I thought the BestBuy leak indicated $2800 on recent inventory for “7D”

63 field matrix metering (9×7)

Unless Canon doesn’t intend to keep their amateur shooting features, the top we saw was not for the 60D.

http://www.canonrumors.com/contact-form/ provides contact information.

Thanks for the translations.

What if they are using a new type of image sensor, the 18MP 1.6 crop could be quite usable even in low light. See US patent USP 20090008735.

MATH GURUS…

who can figure out what an 18 MP APS-C would be in FF??? Maybe that’s a 1Ds4 clue?

Your statement that all lenses profit from higher sensor resolution makes no sense to me. The issue isn’t the lens or the sensor alone but the combination of the two. If a given lens (say, a cheap zoom) isn’t all that sharp, then increasing the resolution of the sensor beyond the level needed to get all the detail the lens is capable of providing does not make the picture better, it just makes the lens’s lack of sharpness more obvious in a 100% crop.

As for noise, there is a definite relationship between the color accuracy of an individual sensor site (which is the opposite of the noise level, basically) and the size of that site. The smaller the site (that is, the more MP crammed into a sensor of a given size), the less accurate its color reception, and hence the more noise in the image. This can be quite noticeable in images even without resorting to 100% crops, especially in low-light situations.

Correct me if i am wrong, but diffraction is a function of the lens. Since all Canon APS-C are essentially the same physical size, the image being projected on the sensor has always been the same. There for the diffraction is the same as it has always been. It is however true that when viewed at 100% the diffraction will APPEAR more visible, when in reality that is just because there are more pixels per measurement unit.

When equalized to the size of say a 350D’s 8mp sensor, the effects of diffraction should not look any worse.

I meant “Less Pixels”, of course

It would not surprise me if that was the case, plus it would be two fingers up at Nikon.

This camera would have the same ISO range as the 5d MkII. Would canon do this if they didn’t believe the image quality at the same iso would be similiar? If ISO was not improved with a 18mp crop, wouldn’t they have left it at 3200 like the 50d?

Hahahahahahahahaha…. whoa you crack me up with such originality. That joke isn’t one bit tired. What a witty person you are.

1.6?????????????? :(

but i have one L lens :(

I do believe that such a camera must have an L quality direct print button, one that would complement my wonderful collection of L lenses adequately.

Leave the lower quality direction print buttons for the peasants with their shabby EF-S lenses.

Further to my original point, let the EF-S peasants eat cake!

I think you’re basically correct, but diffraction does limit the value of the extra MPs beyond a certain point. Why should I want 18 MP APS-C if the diffraction limit means my images won’t look any better than they would have with 10 MP APS-C?

Of course this relates to aperture. If you take all your pictures at f/4 or wider, then the diffraction limit is less of an issue. But I dislike the idea of a camera that shows diffraction blurring at f/8. The increase in MP that makes the diffraction limit that low also increases image noise. I’d rather reduce the MP a bit to get lower noise and push the diffraction limit out to at least f/11.

In engineering there are all sorts of trade-offs like this. You don’t get more MP for nothing; there’s always a price to pay.

Obviously, if you must ask you mustn’t be able to afford it. Such is not a concern for myself, with my massive collection of L lenses.

No, problem is Legacy lenses can resolve more lines than consumer lenses, this means that consumer lenses aren´t able to get the most of high resolution sensors (5D MKII, 1Ds MKIII, 50D, T1i)and thus the sensors outresolve the lenses, this problem was present when the Canon EOS 1DS MKII was introduced several photographers noticed that the only way to get the most of the 16 megapixel sensor of the 1Ds MKII was to actually use lenses that were able to resolve the resolution the sensor had and it was only a handful of primes and L lenses that could match the resolution of the camera, today the problem is even bigger.

Nikon did take this into account and launched 3 new legacy lenses: 14-24mm f/2.8, 24-70mm f/2.8, 70-200mm f/2.8 VRII because the older lenses barely could match the resolution of the new sensors.

That´s why also the most common suggestion in photo forums is to get good glass and later to buy a top of the line camera body, a 5D MKII with a 28-135mm will give you poorer IQ compared to a 5D MKII witha a 24-70mm f/2.8 L.

Oh dear, I’m in such a tizzy!

18x(1.6)^2 = around 46MP or thereabouts…

Here is a summary of all icons on the poster (say thanks):

CANON 7D – An even quicker evolution

1 – 18mpix

2 – dual diginc 4

3 – 8 fps

4 – 19 af points

5 – iso 6400 max

6 – 63 metering zones

7 – 100% viewfinder

8 – “smart” optical viewfinder

9 – electronic level

10 – 3 inch LCD II

11 – video

12 – Live view

The only questions we still need answered are:

What is the crop factor? There is no confirmation of it here, but apparently there is an EF-S lens attached in the picture.

What is the story with the flash? Who knows?

I am a tool.

For this I will not stand!

Beware

hahahah canon wants to go out of business with a bang.. so far they are doing a great job !

I guess there is no way to switch to FF mode if ur using 1.6x.

preying for not to be 18mp.

only gayu use canon.

ALL EF-S lens sticks out about 2 to 3mm beyond the lens mount to make use the smaller mirror size for the APS-C sensor and make the lens design easier. That is how they can make 18 to 55 or 17-85 for APS-C ONLY.. Any other size will have a bigger mirror which will hit the EF-S lens. Couple people have suggested the mirror can swing back before flipping up. This is a standard operation for a LONG time in ALL modern SLR for both film and digital. How many of you remembers that the upper part of the image in the view finder is a little dim when using lens longer than 200mm??? That is the SLR without the mirror backward movement.
So please thinking of using EF-S lens in any other sensor size.

Everyone was talking about 18MP will have high noise image, I think you guys forgot about DUAL DIGIC IV processor. If 18MP divided by 2 meaning each DIGIC IV is only handling 9MP. Wouldn’t it be good enough balancing the noise control???

Agree. A dream. Similar claims were floated when the 50D arrived, and though its noise is respectable for 15MP, it can’t match the cleaner performance of 10-12MP. 18 MP is probably just a further step in the wrong direction. Sigh…

The point is, why push the sensor resolution so far if you have to downsize the image to make it look sharp anyway? Not to mention digital IQ concerns.

I use it on a trip with5DII
Raw for Landscape I want to print
sRaw 1 for what I don’t want to print
sRaw 2 for my girlfriend

Ha Ha Ha

Comon, someone stole my identity!!

8 – eye control?

That would be great if true, and I wish it was so, but I doubt it….. I think that would be the case is you had two sensors…. not two processors…. sorry.

I always thought high ISO noise was primarily the result of small pixels which is the product of cramming too many of them on to a sensor.

Please someone correct me if I’m wrong…

But If I’m right, it means seriously small pixels with an APS-C sized sensor

It’s read ‘wan’ which means 10,000.

You mean the 1D _HAD_. That was yesterday. And yes, I meant 1.6 crop. 1.3 crop would still be reasonable with 18 MP, but I don’t think, Canon will re-introduce 1.3 crops again.

You should have trusted Science, dude

WTF!!I didn’t say anything above!

Est. Street Price?!

lol, this guy really went crazy. LMAO! Think too much about Direct Print Button?

I can’t help myself… TOOL! I’m such a tool!!

Oh yes they do. That’s how the AF tracking works while burst shooting. Some of the recent Nikons keep the mirror up to get a faster burst rate, but they lose AF tracking when they do this.

I concur. Everything that has been translated are right. GOOD JOB. The last one on the top right is hard to read. From the symbol I would guest it to be curvature correction or built in grid in the view finder. The second one at the bottom row says smart and the smaller character says optical. So I guest it may say “smart exposure control or adjustment” i would guest the next one ( from the symbol) may be horizontal indicator.

When they advertise the ISO is it normally the value before or after the ISO boost? For example, the 40D goes to ISO 1600, but “H” mode is ISO 3200. Would they stick “ISO 1600” or “ISO 3200” on the box/poster?

I’m not denying the existence of in-camera noise reduction, I’m just saying that (1) it’s no substitute for creating a lower-noise image in the first place, because noise-reduction processing tends to blur fine details, and (2) my impression is that Canon’s purpose in putting two processors into the camera is to speed up the frame rate, not to lower noise levels. I could be wrong, but that’s how it seems to me at this point.

Cannon can’t do this because EF-S lenses actually protrude further into camera than standard FF lenses. This causes them to hit the FF sized mirror.

DX lenses from Nikon and the ones from sony don’t go any further into the camera than their FF lenses, this is why they are able to do it.

smart as in dynamic crop!

Maybe I should correct myself slightly, but substantially: “I still don’t believe a one-digit-D _should_ ever have a crop sensor”. But after some reflection, I think this one WILL have one. Why? If one of the icons on the box really means 8fps and the processor is a Digic 4, i’m pretty sure it’s not possible this sensor is anything but a 1.6 crop because i don’t think the Digic 4 can make 8fps on 18MP full frame sensors. What do you think?

Two in the pink, one in the stink…

倍速进化 on the title (Bei su jin hua) translates more closely to “a quantum leap in evolution/development” ..

Or literally ” evolution many times over “

can anyone tell me that these mtf charts are good for us or bad? i compared the 15-85 chart to the 17-85 chart but strictly watching the lines i think 17-85 wins, but i dont know exactly how to interpret the graphs. can anyone help?

Comparing an image recorded in RAW and same image recorded in jpg, you can see that the jpg one will be more noisy, because in DPP you can use more complex formula like comparing more points or do more anti-aliasing resulting in cleaner image. If a camera has more powerful CPU, it can builtin more complex formula or do more anti-aliasing resulting in better jpg images. That is my understanding.

Mentioning anti-aliasing, you can always have more, like 8x, 12x, 32x…so there is no limit how clean a picture can be as long as CPU computing power is increasing, so I personally recommend shooting pictures in RAW if you have the time to process it, you might get a better picture in the future when DPP evolutionizes.

Based on your comment, are you for or against the 18MP… I’m not sure to follow. To improve noise and dynamic range, 12MP will ease your life, why struggling with 18MP ?

Since 50D start showing diffraction at f/7, what would be of the 7D ?

One VERY interesting observation. The picture of the 7D box did not mention anything about crop sensor also there is no mention about EF-S Lens either. On the posting about 8 spaces ahead, there is a picture showing 7D teams up with 24-105 L lens. If put two and two together. the 7D may still be a FF. and not cheap. 1. It teams up with a $1300 lens as a kit. canon always team up a kit lens about 1/4 of the camera body 2. No built-in flash ( canon only does this on 1D series) 3. If it is a 1.6 crop sensor. That will be teaming with a 38 to 168mm lens. That is a awkward kit lens. Too short for sport or wide life. Too long for landscape and family. On the other hand. if it is a FF sensor. The 24 to 105 will be a perfect general purpose lens.

So FF fans ( actually I am not one), Keep your hope alive.

Somewhere in the low $2000 for Canada, maybe around $1800 US if this right.

From what to what?

“should not”

Identity theft is not a joke! Millions of families suffer every year!

I hope you`re right. even a 1.3 crop sensor would be cool.

Does anybody know if the ff sensor is written on the 5d mk II box as a spec? If it`s not, then there is still hope for a non apsc 7d.

“No built-in flash ( canon only does this on 1D series)” you mean xD, since both 5D and 5DII doesn’t have it.

its a 1,6 camera if you look close you can see ef s followed by a a zoom range and a non fixed aperture.

PS if noise sucks on this camera I will switch to nikon. I just dont like the way they are going with their camera’s. Cramming more pixels in their sensors.

true, but the practical limit is higher than most people think. Every single lens tested on a 15MP 50D provided noticeably more detail than on a 10MP 40D.

The CR3 report two days ago here on CR said the 7D was definitely APS-C, but you’re right, it would be weird to ship an APS-C camera with the 24-105 L lens. I guess we’ll just have to wait for the official announcement!

It’s not true, though, that Canon kits always package a body with a lens 1/4 the price. The 5D MkII kit has the same 24-105 L lens.

If that was true, the viewfinder would go dark and you’d have no idea what you’re shooting past the 2nd/3rd shot.

There is a practical limit, but I think we’re still a ways from it. Say, for example, 15MP was the resolving capability of a lens (this is too low for L glass but perhaps about right for cheaper glass.) To oversample by 2x, which is probably about the useful limit, you would need to quadruple the resolution of the sensor, or have 60MP. Even if 8MP was the limit, resolutions up to 32MP would be useful. Like I said, we’re still a ways from it.

exactly, wondering myself!
maybe that other leak was from the 60D?

From a friend from a friend who works at Canon. They have been working for a long time on his one. It will be good. Let’s hop so. Get it out so we may have a few review’s

I pray. That would be awesome. It would have better AF than a 1D2 then, same frame rate.

What I fear is that it is per the early rumors though, the 1D4 AF but with ALL helper points removed. Which would be a serious crippling for tracking ability once again. And if it has no adjustments to AF it might be even touchier/jumpier than a 40D/50D! So I really hope they were smart and left the helper ring around the center point even if they got rid of the fancy helper rings for more outer points (which can allow for better sports composition and make 1 series better).

No, MP is clearly labeled as 18 (first box)

hah, no way. Not that everyone would not be ecstatic if that were the case but i believe you are reading way more into the box than what it says!

So where is the flash controller?

What does 1.3,1.6, FF have to do with speed? A CPU doesn’t care a whit where it gets data from, just how much it is sent. 8fps by 18MP takes the same CPU power to process whether it comes from a tiny P&S sensor or a MF camera.

That said, look at it, it is not FF though.

to notice that, you must actually handle real cameras and take pictures with it. as some of us forget to do, and base our opinions solely upon the opinions of others (at DPR, etc.)

I’ve always said I’d upgrade from my 30D to the 50D even just for the image quality, let alone the rest of the specs.

just so happens that, by the time I save up the money, now there’s all the talk of the 60D and 7D… I’ll wait to see both before deciding I guess, as the 30D ain’t broke yet

A dream for SNR! It has like 2.5 times less surface area how to make up for that?!

But if they fixed up read electronics and banding perhaps it could beat the dynamic range of the 5D2 or at least match it. That could be possible.

63 field matrix metering (9×7

The lens pictured on the box is EF-S.

Also, there’s a camera next to it on the poster. Says 7 so could just be the same thing repeated, but is it possible there’s a 7Ds kind of thing? It doesn’t show what comes after the ‘7’ on the one on the right.

I don’t think it matters whether it’s a crop or not in terms of the (dual) Digic 4 handling 8FPS. What matters is the bandwidth, which is dictated by the resolution and bit depth. The physical area in which those pixels is spread does not matter.

Now it is easier to make a faster crop camera, but that’s because the mirror assembly is smaller (and therefore less travel distance and less mass,) but this has nothing to do with the capabilities of the processing chip.

Right. And you also get a 60% viewfinder coverage ;)

It is definitely a APS-C camera! If you look close you can see EF-S 15-85 followed by a non fixed aperture. So it comes in a kit with the new walk-around lens.

The last symbol in the upper row indicates a 63 field matrix metering – 9 by 7 fields.

The argument that noise reduction smears out the details and therefore lower resolution is better is vacant. With a lower resolution that detail isn’t there in the first place!

I thought the MP-race was stupid, but also the backlash is equally inane. People need to stop pixel peeping or at least understand what it is that they are looking at.

I think DPR did a post on this. Based on their tests, it’s not as effective as it sounds.

exactly. engineers don’t decide the specs, marketing does.

i think 7D mark II or so. only 7 would think to a “high end” kamera. not xxD.
I hope also it’s a FF, but…

It’s not.

It’s not like diffraction wasn’t there before. Diffraction is function of the lens, not the sensor. With a lower res sensor, you just can’t see it because the sensor can’t resolve that level of detail. All else being equal, a higher resolution will always yield a superior image (although it may not appear that way if you make the pixels the same size.)

thx, but i have doubts. just look at camera top at the box
http://www.mylensdb.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/canon7dBox.jpg
its not similar to the previous camera top picture
http://www.mylensdb.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/canon7dBox.jpg

no on/off switch at the mode dial, no custom function modes (i mean only one, just like the original 5d) so i think its just a photoshopped 5D box, thats all

oh i pasted the wrong link, here is the second pic http://ericreagan.smugmug.com/photos/625808033_QD4JD-L.jpg

Wow, there’s so much wrong with that article I don’t know where to start. In regards to diffraction, he seems to claim that diffraction reduces the overall quality of the image more with a higher resolving sensor, which is patently false. (It reduces the quality of 100% crops, certainly, but you have to compare images at the same rendered size. Blowing up a low res image will make it look crappy too.)

Do you remember this rumor : http://www.canonrumors.com/2009/07/60d-specs-cr1-2/

At the end, they mentionned :”lastly, an all-new, pleasantly surprising “feature” that would bring

a smile to all the Canon loyalists (just watch for it) ;)”

If this “feature” was a compatibility of EF-S lenses with the APS-H sensor of the 7D ? that would be nice. It would please lots of people.

Thats a Nikon naming system and I don’t ever see Canon repeating it… they just give a new name rather than adding an S or something else

More I think about this one and more it could make sense… let’s hope for it. Specially with the Chinese translation of the poster title “evolution many times over”… “over” might be the buzz word.

what if its a foveon type sensor so that its 18mpx extrapolated but natively 6mpx? That would be a smarted move and give great hi ISO performance rather than doing their usual sensor in an even more cramped version

Why canon cannot do it right at least one?

There shuld be a 5DII with better autofocus on the market, but is not.

7D should be anything else but no 18MP on APS-C:
it could be 18MP on FF, or APS-H
it could be 10 to 12 MP on APS-C

They need a change in top management ASAP!

Fyi – the first of these messages was mine – the remainder were made by an impersonater. Could the mods step in here please?

Could be. That is what I remembered when posting in post 36. So Also could be eye control?

That would be the best case scenario, if you ask me …

It wasn’t me either

Ha ha very funny. Some smart alec here fancies himself as a comedian? The only post made here by me is the one dated August 28th, 2009 at 11:36 am.

I would like the mods to step in here and review these posts. If anybody needs confirmation of whether I posted a message or not, the mods have my email address and can communicate back to me that way.

Not sure your logic is correct mickey muncher, but I’m pretty sure Canon would not be putting 18MP on a 1.6x sensor unless noise control was going to improve significantly. I don’t know if its likely that the dual processor would directly lead to a reduction in noise.

+5

Might be that this *will* be the “60D”, but that they decided to rename that line for fear of people getting confused between the Nikon D60 and Canon 60D. Like “Canon 60D? I’ve heard that’s a crappy low-end camera that can’t even autofocus with most lenses. I’ll get this Nikon D90 instead.”

We should not forget that we see only half of the poster… the other half should show (crossing fingers) the killer feature…

Be patient. By putting 18mp on a 1.6x (if indeed that’s what the sensor will be), then Canon are making a statement and trying to prove the doubters wrong. It would be an amazing feat if 18mp on a 1.6x results in better noise control than the D300. It’s only slightly faster and, from what I can gather, considerably more expensive. My chips are on Canon pulling a rabbit out of the hat on this one. Otherwise it’s a bad egg in the face.

See my last post (directly above yours). Enough of the “friend of a friend” talk though – we are all here for factual information only. Rumours can go elsewhere.

Is that a question, or have you just answered it yourself?

It will be a sad day to see an EF-S lens mounted on an XD Canon. What is the world coming to?

Unless the other poster says, “Just Kidding”, this looks like a dud.

If they do a 18MP on APS-C, I switch to Nikon.

I just want a fast full frame, good at high isos, without paying more than 3500 €. Am I asking too much?

System resolution is a result of both lens resolution and sensor resolution.
Better sensor resolution means better system resolution, period. You go from 12Mpix to 21Mpix, you gain resolution, as simple as that. You might not see it if you peep at your images at 100% crop on screen, but if you downsample the bigger image it will look sharper and more detailed yhan the other at 100% crop. So if you upgrade your camera you don’ necessarily have to upgrade your lenses, on the contrary, upgrading the sensor is a good way of getting more resolution from cheap lenses.

Simple example:
The Canon 17-85 IS at 17mm wide open on the extreme borders, a lens well known for being quite poor under these conditions:
on 8 Mpix system resolution is 1315 l/ph
on 15 Mpix system resolution is 1736 l/ph
so you get 32% more resoltuion from that lens by putting a sensor with 36% better linear resolution. I’d say it’s fair enough.

There are diminishing returns, but they are diminishing very slowly. We’ll see 100Mpix APS-C cameras and they’ll give better IQ than 50Mpix APS-C cameras.

Is this a APS-H or APS-C sensor?

you mean douche

i.e. if you like Mercedes, but Ferrari gives you higher speed, and your “professional speed racer” why stay with Mercedes, go and use Ferrari :)

Who told you that EF-S has no place on APS-H/FF?
Or thats just xD = Must Have L ? Than why theres people who use 50 1.8 on Ds or 5D2 ?
That sounds like you have been fooled by marketing…

Just kidding… i actually have split personality disorder… so, about that therapist?

I don’t know Nikon’s product line that well, but if the DX lenses don’t have a shorter back focus like the EF-S lenses do, then Nikon doesn’t have this problem.

Speak for yourself. I know EXACTLY what he’s talking about.

Where is the flash controller, indeed??

Very presumptuous to speak for all of us John.

Gulp !!! as someone said it’s probably a twin poster uncut… but there is still hope.

Me hopes it becomes the Full Framed sensors.

yeah… right

Honest and for true???

That will be best-of-the-best prosumer camera, hope its true :)

Exactly..!! Canon will never give d700 or d300. You may get all the extras..may be gps, altimeter, mp3 player,radio, instant messenger, may an inbuilt cellphone too..but NO Pro AF, NO Pro weatherseals…to summarise, no Pro body matching Nikon. But unfortunately marketing works..!!

My friend in the Yokohama office says that he had some Ramen for lunch. And that the 7D is gonna destroy the D300s with godzilla-like abandon.

Well, canon’s marketing decides everything and it works for them.

This sounds more like it!

You might want to re-read reviews of the 50D. If you look at resolution, you’ll clearly see it outresolving the 40D. BTW, per-pixel, noise levels are about the same between the 40 and 50D.

with an APS-H sensor, it will give us around 10MP on an EF-S lens. I like it!!

Maybe they know/discovered a better noise control, but at 18MP on a ‘simple’ apsc, i’m VERY VERY INCREDIBLY worried about diffraction, thing that gets noticable at 100% crop at above F/11 on a 400D 10MP, and at above F/8 on a 50D 15MP; how worse could it get on a 18MP?

On paper this seems a dream camera, and i’m very tempted to order it as soon as i can, whatever the price if i have the proof diffraction will be reasonable (i’m looking for an ultimate upgrade to my 400D, and am birdshooting, which i love; also need a good low light for other pics, wanting apsc because of my efs kind lenses, and extra reach on the 100-400)

But, i’m so worried about diffraction: i need F/11 (or better) for macro shooting! that diffraction just gets horrible at F/16 on a 400D

I simply hope for a new technology in this sensor, or guess i’ll have to wait another 6months for a hypothetic 60D :(

I’m also about to buy the 10-22 for a ultra wide fun; but i’m waiting for the final announcement before buying… Just to be sure. Aps-h or full frame won’t fit my lenses ‘collection’/needs/expectations at the moment.

I think canon understood that plenty of xxD owners are waiting for a ultimate upgrade even at a high price. aka D300s killer. A pitty they are just ‘following’, and didn’t innovate before others.

+1

Bahaha.

In Canon´s acronyms system L stands for “Legacy” if you didn´t knew ;). The one that´s confused is you.

Or maybe you wouldn’t mind twisting my knickers a bit??

+1

What’s your source for that? I wasn’t aware that there was an official, publicly-revealed meaning for the L.

Isn’t it easier if we just contact the CR3 guy and ask him what he knows? ;)

Hmmm… I’d like one of these cameras.

I thought:

APS-C: 22.2 x 14.8 mm
APS-H: 28.7 x 19.1 mm
FF: 36 x 24 mm

So, Rob is right.

I believe the bestbuy leak, was somewhere around $2,700, which does not make any sense with these specs if it’s a 1.6. Now if there was a 1.3, that could be possible??

Excellent point about the mid-range.

No $2K FF in the next 3 years for sure.

Power of Marketing. Same marketing which works for Monster cables and Bose audio

Street price drops with time, and it’s a product of demand vs. supply. It’ll probably start at around $1,800. Really though, your guess is as good as mine.

I think the left side of the poster show the 7D 1,3 crop”ef” and the right side 7D 1,6 crop “EF-S” mode? In the same camera.

The box in the photo shows everything but a price tag.

Not ‘might be’ – this *is* the 60D.

Moved up a level in both specs & price.

Aah. The ‘affordable FF’ dream.

My advice – by a 5DII or a Sony A850.

That’s my only hope too.

Can’t imagine that Canon would be stupid enough to put a noisy 18mp sensor on a ~$2K camera.

Crap. Are you serious? I was kinda hoping this this was gonna run between $1800-$2100…. Blerg!

The chinese text on the right side of the poster is same so long we can see but the precent of the wievfinder mabe 96%? in the 1,6 crop mode. I think the right side show the 1,6crop features in the 7D

Now I’m hoping it’s a 1.6 crop. I’m not about to spend another $2.5K on a body (just got the MKII). Canon, hook us up with $2K price for a 1.3 cropper! Hoyoooo!

You wish ;);)

I don’t understand ppl waiting for a D700, you have the “old” 5D, or the even better 5dmk2,

if i was waiting for a “budget” FF from canon, in fact, i wouldn’t be waiting and would buy a 5Dm2 as soon as i can. It has so many excellent reviews, except for the AF part, but that’s where the 1Ds comes in, and its not cheap.

a better camera than 5Dmk2 will hit their 1ds sales (and 5D), i think you shouldn’t expect a better & cheaper FF camera from canon atm.

but a apsc d300s killer is a market where canon has a big hole, and that’s where the 7D seems to fit; let’s hope the 18MP sensor won’t before-born kill it

i’m looking (probably like many of XXXD and XXD owners) for a perfect upgrade (with fullhd, low light?, low diffraction!??), it seems the 7D is the answer.

just my .02Euros :p

Some of you old-timers will remember the Canon Pellix… It used a fixed, semi-silvered pellicle mirror. Might this allow the two formats without EF/EF-S exit pupil incompatibility? With the advances in optics in forty years and the two-layer sensor, there might just be a new workaround to the obviously dimmer image getting to the sensor through a mirror. Achieving a high frame rate would be easy with a pellicle, as there is no mechanical activity except the shutter. A 100% viewfinder image would also be easier to engineer with a larger fixed mirror. Ah, isn’t speculation fun!

Please be right.

(As per above…)

I use my 5D2 on sRAW fairly often because it offers a far less noisy image, at least for computer-viewing usages.

If its priced same as 5D2, what the point buying when you can add a little and buy 1D Mark III ? EF-S compability wont worth that much.

I’m sorry, I must have missed where it says APS-C on that poster. This is still speculative, so the 18mp might actually be an improvement to the 21mp sensor.

Actually, methinks the Canonrumor guy knows him/her. Let’s torture him.

Is foveon much better than Bayer sensors?

If you can wait another 6 months I believe there’ll be a 60D by then at around $1.3K.

Possibly, but there was a CR3 report here on CR two days ago that stated specifically that the 7D was APS-C. We’ll just have to wait and see.

FOR SALE!!!

Anyone interested in buying my 40D… …cheap? I’ll keep my 50D around for a while, but it looks like it will be a back-up now.

why would they pair it up with a EF-S lens that doesn’t utilize the whole APS-H sensor?

Ouch!

I was able to sharpen the image and make out the box on the bottom row, second from the left. The Chinese translation is “Dual Direct Print Buttons”

I think if it’s a 1.6 crop, it will be priced around Nikon D300. If it’s really around $2.7K it cannot be 1.6 crop.
It’s also possible that we see a 60D and a 7D next week.

For me this camera is for people who loves numbers, not for those who loves to take great pictures.

And also it makes me feel, this is a product what is an end result of making a camera based on forum comments…

Pretty silly.

I wanna git my hans on a fuggin’ 7D ovah heeere!

How come no rumors for the 60Dizzle?

Yes,

There are a lot more amateurs than professionals, them… direct print buttons and tons of mega pixels.

I like it!. Both 7D and the 15-85mm.

He has Direct Print Button syndrome!!!!!

The megapixel race is still on!!!

What about the camera next to it in the image, it like the image is repeated but it appears blury and smaller.
Bad photoshop?
Another camera?

Dual Digics + Dual Direct Print buttons.

ISO 6400 is the nominal sensitivity, like 5d MKII………..12800 and 25600 are the forced settings….H and H2………

It will be a world-changing event.

there are two direct print buttons – one for color and one for B&W

And one for each dead pixels too?
Then I’ll buy one!

Well, what can you expect from a company taken hostage by their Marketing gods. Canon very clearly indicates “If you need Pro AF then buy 1 series. Period”

YES!!!!!

At first I thought the same thing as everyone about the ad poster being the same poster twice, just not cut in half yet. But go check it out again, notice where the Chinese writing starts over the first body, then where it’s starts over the 2nd body.

Hmmm…

Good eye…… maybe a 1.3 on one half and an add for e-fs crop mode like a second camera? Why oh why couldn’t take a pic of the entire thing……. =(

we – Canons customers – force Canon to finally give us Pro AF in bodies significantly cheaper than 1 series. It doesnt matter, what Canon indicates.

We have the money, we call the shots. Canon doesnt want to play? We buy Nikons. That simple.

After 3 years of too little too late APS-C bodies (30D/40D/50D), its about time Canon delivers a pro-level APS-C body that clearly beats the Nikon D300s at a similar price point.

If not … many more users will switch.

Huh??? The 18-200 Canon lens has both IS and USM. The 18-135 may be intended as a kit lens for $700 Rebels. It’ll be interesting to see if the 15-85 is the new kit lens for the 50D and 60D. It would have to be better than the 28-135 that Canon has been adding.

back of the truck .. at night … no streetlights ;)

ever THINK you could use .. GASP .. a 17-55 2.8 EF-S on it? or heaven forbid a 35 1.4 or a 24 1.4 on it too?

that article only applies if you pixel peep.

ZOMG .. then .. don’t .. view .. at .. 100 .. PERCENT.

do you honestly PRINT a 6 foot wide print and then look at it from 18 inches away and go ZOMG .. that pixel on quadrant 2.12387 feet by 3.32387 is diffraction limited!

snickers. and will that be released on youtube?

awesome! one less person in the waiting line.

Where do you get that to mean it was designed by listening to forum comments? If it has no central assist points and it is all numbers 18,8,19 then that has nothing to do with forum commentators and everything to do with marketing that have probably never taken a shot in their lives.

No, it is just warped perspective.

They are the same.

True. But it also affect the effective usage of the memory. Why should I have a 15mp picture with same resolution as 10 mp. Also You want great depth of field, so you stop down to f 11 ( personally, I try to avoid f16 even shooting film with my M4) and the diffraction kicks in and having a slightly unsharp picture.

60D isn’t going to get 19 cross type AF points sorry.

I think that would be awesome beyond belief. BUT it is not going to happen, since it is Canon. And sure as heck not for $1699!

Yep. Marketing for gearheads.

I think this thing will be a POS, and I think that Canon’s driving more nails into their coffin.

I wish they would innovate.

If they were marketing for gearheads it wouldn’t be a 18MP 1.6x crop.

Those high MP counts are aimed at the “Debbi Digitals” and other neophytes who don’t know any better.

Well I’m sure the poster’s real, whether the information on it is real is a question for the conspiracy nuts.

Could be Micro-USM

Don’t you think maybe that $2K Sony has perhaps made them a bit nervous? Size wise, Canon is David to Sony’s Goliath… They would be wise to view them as a serious threat to their current position atop the camera manufacturing mountain. When you’re #1 the only thing bigger than your sales is the bullseye on your back. I know the new Sony 850 had me looking at their lens selection, and I’ve got a bag FULL of Canon glass. I like the Canon system, and am used to their gear, but I’m just a hobbyist and I’ll go where I think the best value is. Sony has Zeiss lenses that may be expensive, but are universally recognized as top notch stuff.

Lol!!!

How cheap are you talking about? :-P

Yeah, hope its the nominal sensitivity. We need a clean 6400 as well as a usable 12800 and 25600.

Don’t turn on the particle accelerator!!!!!!!

Sometimes you want to be able to use the MP for cropping & recomposing, what else would you need 18MP for?

640 kp is enough for everybody!

The Canon 18-200 has a dc motor not a usm motor. The 18-135 should have ring usm. In fact all canon lenes should have ring usm.

Also, the body looks too squashed. Look at the angle of the shutter button, it’s too flat.

That is probably due to perspective distortion. Similary is also the figure “7” more straight. The photo was probably taken at close distance with a wide angle lens. It appears as the righthand side of the picture is farther away.

Are you HIGH?? That would mean this alleged 7D would have less resolution than 5DmkII. 18MP is suitable for APS-C and only just suitable for APS-H.
FF @ 18MP?? Forget it! Did you know that the 5DmkII has 21MP?? That would give you a hint if nothing else!

How much do you want for it…condition?

It’s Chinese

Cunt lick

Girlfriend is an idiot to hang around your stupidity

You would dixkhead

Finally a brain used

Another ficking idiot

Keep diluding yourself

ANYONE INTERESTED WITH MY 50D? I’LL GIVE IT FOR $999 WITH 18-55 KIT LENS. EMAIL ME= [email protected]

I can fine a way to get rid of bugs and night frogs that pop-up flash .

per favore test canon 15-85

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