|
When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission. Here's how it works. |
New Info
Canon has apparently been humbled by the lack sales with the 50D. The 40D was a fantastic selling camera for Canon.
The motivation for the next incarnation is to directly attack the success of Nikon's D300.
A newer contact has said there will be an APS-H based xxD sized body. It will have a version of the EOS-1 AF system, so expect more AF points than the current 50D. It will shoot 6fps. It will have the same build quality of the 5D Mark II. It will have a new 12.1mp sensor.
The hope is to retail the camera for $1999 USD initially.
CR's Take
At that price point, there is definitely room for another prosumer camera. Perhaps a 50D with video?
cr
To me, that would be a move in the right direction!
I wonder if they would put video and gps on it.
Sounds not bad.
I think it would better fit to “3D”-thing.
APS-H on xD is plausible.
APS-H on 60D is not. Canon will keep an APS-C upgrade path for Rebel users.
Either way, I’d buy a reasonably priced APS-H cam.
Finally an announcement I have been hoping for!!
I really hope it will have a great ISO performance as well….
Having the 5D MK II, I doubt if I would downgrade, however, I might consider it as a second camera. Someone with a 40D or 50D might want to go that way. It does not make sense as a 60D, unless they allow EF-S lenses to fit on it with some automatic cropping. Upgraders from the XXD series would be screaming when their lenses would not fit.
The other thing lacking is a ultra wide zoom lens for APS-H, so that would have to appear. A 12-24 like the nikon would be nice, but perhaps too expensive for a camera in this price range.
Canon does need something to compete with the D300, the 50D was not intended to compete with it directly, and sells for a lot less as well.
I don’t believe this, but sounds like perfect camera :)
Great for sports and wildlife photos for advanced amateurs :)
Do it as a 7D and I’m happy, because I wouldn’t care. I wanna buy a 60D bis 1080p@24 and a good AF, and a an APS-C camera. Because I wanna use EF-S lenses.
I wonder if poor sales are more a result of the time frames the cameras were introduced in; with the 40d in the gogo 07’s and the 50d in the great dump of late ’08.
This would also be a good way to increase megapixels and not increase noise.
As a canon user, I’m always sad to see canon reacting vs being proactive. while I view this rumor as what I hope to be a step in the right direction for canon, It’s really starting to make me sad that canon is always trying to keep up with the other guy…
This would be good news.
But if Canon is going to compete directly against the Nikon D300 but charge more, then we better see pro weather seals, not this “same body as the 5d2” stuff.
And since the D300 will become the D300s with video, Canon will need to include full manual video.
Dave
Good move, Canon!
All they need to add is a tilt-n-swivel LCD to sell me one. That makes Hasselblad-style waist-level shooting possible.
But I don’t believe this is the 60D. Maybe it’s the 70D (with auto-cropping for EF-S lenses, as Ed suggested), or more likely a new model to fit between the 60D and 5DM2.
From all the rumors, and the timing, the 60D is too far along for such a big change. (I can wish, tho.)
This is exactly what I was thinking as well, releasing thousand dollar cameras 15-18 months apart from one another isn’t going to make people upgrade, since they “just bought a new one.” I love new technology, but waited five years between bodies because I was getting new lenses. I also don’t see myself moving from the 5Dii until the 5Div or whatever they call it in 3-4 years.
Sounds very interesting. It’s got to have great low light performance or no deal. I don’t really see it on a xxD body though.
Not a big surprise.
I am a very happy 40D user. I actually did buy a 50D but returned it as the image quality was disappointing. Yes, the resolution is noticeably higher, but in every other respect (dynamic range, high-ISO noise, color) 40D was better IMHO.
I don’t think Canon has to move to APS-H to be competitive. If Canon can deliver a 12.8MP APS-C sensor that has better dynamic range and lower noise, coupled with a pro-AF system, this would be a killer camera. Such a camera will still have 25% better linear resolution compared to the 5D MkII, and keep the support EF-S lenses. The primary customers for high end EF-S lenses like the EF-S 17-55 IS or EF-S 10-22 are high-end APS-C users, it is hard to see Canon giving up on this market.
It is more about the lenses, I don’t think 50D is a bad camera. Too few new lenses published recent year and some good lenses always out of stock.
I’d be all over one of these if Canon does release it.
12.1 mp? I’ll stick to my original 5D with a full-frame sensor. Other than the advanced focusing and video (that I’m not really interested in) these rumored specs are not much better than my 40D.
They are trying to attack the success of the D300 – that camera was released in late 2007!
It’s like Canon is trying to get back to their glory days while we are waiting for the future.
Canon, your glass is amazing but you need to listen to the market on your bodies. What everyone is craving is a FF sensor around 16mp with clean files at high ISO, advanced focusing, 8-10 fps and more ergonomic design, deliver this and you will be selling them like hot cakes, and I’ll take two. Do whatever you want with the xxD line, but you need to fill this huge niche for a xD higher performance full-frame prosumer camera.
PS: Love the new 24 1.4 L II
I can’t see Canon releasing an xxD body with fewer megapixels than the 50D. Eevn if it would make for a better camera the consumer market would only see it as a downgrade.
Perhaps this is something being developed alongside the 60D.
I think the take here is Canon is having problems seeing the 50D against the Nikon D300 which costs hundreds $$$ more in a bad economy.
If I did not already own Canon equipment, and I only had the choice between the 50D and the D300, I would take the D300 even though it costs hundreds more, even in this bad economy, because I think the D300 is a better value over all.
That’s is what Canon is competing against.
Dave
Personally I’m not very interested in an APS-H camera unless it is going to support EF-S lenses. Although I own few of them, I’m not looking to upgrade lenses and a body at the same time.
So, 7D – sure, but I hope there is a 60D coming as well.
Sounds like wishful thinking. But this could be a good upgrade… And if thats true then who will buy a 50/60D (even as a second body)?
I gree with Glass Man. Why only 12.1 MP on a Canon DSLR at this point? The 50D and 500D (T1i) are both 15 MP on APS-C.
Where this rumor does make sense, though, is that Canon now has three levels of APS-C body in their lineup (the 50D, 500D/T1i, and 1000D). Is that really necessary? The 1000D is a fine low-end SLR, and the 450D and 500D are a great step up from that. Upgrading from a T1i to a 50D doesn’t really make sense, as there’s not that much benefit for the cost. Meanwhile, there is a huge gap in price between the APS-C bodies and the current APS-H and full-frame bodies. An APS-H body priced at $2000 or less could be a real winner.
7D lord of darkness? That is what I am guessing. With the 12.1MP sensor the photo sites can be larger and more sensitive to light with less noise. I don’t think that Canon is gong to put there pro line AF in this camera unless the have a new AF system for the 1D4. I hope that Canon makes this camera from the limited specs it sounds like it will be a good seller. I would buy one.
Okay, but would you buy a version of the D300 if you just bought a D300 fifteen months ago? Everyone’s new release cycles are just too close for those not making money off their camera.
I am not a fan of APS-H. There are no good wide-angle lenses for it. It makes sense (maybe) for sport pros, so in the 1Dxxx range. But for everybody else? Why would somebody upgrade from APS-C to APS-H instead of going all the way to FF, if you need to change your EF-S lenses anyway?
A 15mp FF body would make a lot more sense from both a high-iso performance and lens compatibility point of view, and I am sure it wouldn’t cost that much more to make.
IMHO, it’s a good thing that this is a “CR1” and not a “CR3″…
Well if your a pro, you might get the rumored D300s with video. Go look at “stillmotion.ca”.
On a different thought, will Canon finally add flash controller functions to the pop-up flash like the D300 so I don’t have to use a 580EX II to do it.
Dave
I believe it when I see it. I still think it will be XS/T1, T1i, 60D, 7D/3D (aps-h), 5D MKII, 1D MKIV, 1Ds MKIV.
A less MP sensor, would get great reviews for not adding to the MP wars, for great low light photos, for bigger pixels lower noise. It would be a step in the right direction.
Now all we need is a 16mp FF, pro AF, full weather sealed, 5d2 size body, 7 FPS, for $2500 US to go with it.
Dave
Dude, this is not an announcement…it’s a CR1 rumor, and it reads like a wish list unrealistic made up fantasy. For one thing, Canon is not going to change the xxD line from APS-C, the 60D will replace the 50D and not have the build of the 5D line. A 3D or 7D is at least imaginal for a semi-pro higher speed body for sports/action, but it would never replace the 50D/xxD line. This rumor is a joke.
Personally I’d rather Canon not look to top the D300, but would make the 60D go head to head with the Pentax K-7 for a compact outdoor targeted weather resistant fast body with built in HDR…that’s my fantasy.
They are trying to attack the success of the D300 – that camera was released in late 2007!
That’s what is so sad about Canon and what is so good about the D300 design. Here we are half way through 2009 and Canon still has no camera to compete against the D300. And that just shows how forward thinking Nikon was in adding pro AF, build-in flash commander, proper weather seals for $1800 US.
Dave
I would upgrade to a APS-H
I can get more on the long side than the FF
I can get more wideness on the APS-C
I dont need to go to 16mm(FF), mid 20s is fine for me… And to go over 200mm(FF) is actually an easier thing to acomplish in APS-H.
a letter by an xD and xDs for FF sensor (x 1.0).
Two letters by xxD for APS-H sensor (x 1.3).
Three or four letters per xxxD and xxxxD for APS-C sensor (x 1.6).
This
This is the fist good news about an upgrade for my 40D.
Yes, Canon needs to look at the Pentax K-7 as also a competitor. I find it interesting that Pentax can put pro weather seals in a $1300 US body.
Dave
A 60d with 1.3 crop, and 50d exact body and features would be great. I don’t care about focus points.
I would be really happy to pair with a 24-105 f/4L IS, for an EFL of 31-136 perfect walkaround.
The 24-105 on 1.6 crop is not wide enough, then I must carry a second lens… and a tele, and a macro, and primes… ahhh, my back hurts!
Agree with Max, APS-H would make a lot of sense for anyone who’s mostly interested in tele. You get better range and don’t use as much of the image circle as FF, and get bigger pixels than on 1.6 crop if the pixel count is the same.
I’d seriously consider a new APS-H body at $2000 if the IQ is good, and a 24-205 would be wide enough for me as a standard zoom.
Unfortunately I don’t believe this rumor at all, 12MP from an APS-H sensors make sense to me, but don’t believe Canon would make anything below 16MP with that senor size.
Canon, get it out the door and I’ll buy it in a jiff!
And it has to come with 4k video recording options, gps, underwater protection, wifi and built in mp3 player.
WITH A FREE BAG!
Right on! Me too… The K-7 comes very close to my current “wish-list” camera (that I could afford), but the small rugged body is what most excites me about it. Somehow I’m doubtful that Canon will follow suit, but one can hope…
This sounds like a downgrade from the speculated 1D4 unless I am missing something. Both are said to have asp-h sensors, and the 1D4 will have 16mp and this one 12mp, etc. Does Canon want to produce two asp-h cameras? I would rather have one of these as full frame. Any thoughts?
With the technoligal advances i bet there can be a original 5D sensor squished into a APS-H sensor size.
Im getting a 24-105 before christmas thinking in upgrading to a larger sensor soon…
this is exactly the camera i was looking for!
The digital crop to APS-C seems to solve everyones problems!
exactly!
the 24-105 seems like the perfect lens now!
a 16-35 would be a perfect combo
close, but the 1D has always been cropped for wildlife/sports use
Interesting. If there is to be a 12 megapixel sensor, perhaps Canon will be exiting the megapixel race freeway to some degree.
People like value, and they like value in difficult economic times even more. The D300 is considered a great value by many because of its pro-like build, autofocus and other amenities that outdo all but a few 35mm DSLRs ever made.
I think Nikon was smart not to waste time with the megapixel race, leaving that to the D3x, so as to give landscape and studio shooters a bone to chew on, while focusing on high ISO performance with their other top cameras.
The two complaints I see most about the 5D Mark II are cheap build and the autofocus system. Both are easily outdone by the D700, leaving the megapixels and video as the only true advantages. If you think that 12 MPs are enough, it’s just video that the 5D Mark II has over it.
I’m on the fence right now. I don’t understand why your MP’s are that important (unless you want Hasselblad MP’s on a pro-sumer camera). I think low noise is the most important right now. Video, yes, perfect for those who do journalism and great professional video vacation scrapbooks. Anyways, I’m waiting…waiting it to impress me
APS-H? Mehhhh. Would rather keep my EF-S lenses.
Construction like 5DII? Mehhhh. my 20D is good enough in build-quality, though real weather sealing would be welcome.
1-series focus points? Mehhh. I’m less concerned about number of focus points than about the actual AF performance of speed and accuracy.
Come on, Canon, try at least a little bit to be aggressive. If I was starting over again from scratch today, I would choose Nikon.
sounds like a great camera, and if they released it at more like $1500 I would buy one. $2000 is just too close to the D700 price and further increases my thinking of making the jump.
Dave is right, and it’s not too much to ask.
Looks like Canon is reorganizing…
APS-C for entry level xxxD & xxxxD.
APS-H for mid level xxD & xD.
FF for the pros.
more lens
less cams
HAHA “announcement”
This sounds more like crap made up by Noink fanbois.
Canon has “apparently”, “attack the success” of Nikon, “expect” more AF points, “the hope is” blabla.
Very nice, keep up the good work CR!
some nikonians say the same about canon… i think some people just jump on the bandwagon….
build quality is an awesome feature, most of it is weather sealed anyway.
more autofocus points, i doubt they would do it if it doesn make it faster and more accurate.
I think taking the midrange cameras to a larger sensor is awesome!
Well its kinda true.. i mean the D300 is a hell of a camera untouched in its class!
it’s still a rumor, not an anouncment, but there is hope for having an anouncement. I especially like the decision for a 12 MP sensor. This sounds about real fine high ISO’s
Well, till then…the fairs moving on.
There´s no way Canon would make this camera. Why? Because it makes complete sense to make it, and Canon don´t make any sense at all.
So Canon, who lately has been leading the megapixel war, is going to follow up the 15MP 50D with a 12MP 60D?? Sounds very far-fetched to me. It would have to be a different series camera – and even then it still seems reeally unlikely.
Also, the lack of compatibility with EF-S would make upgrading much less attractive for current 1.6 crop users. All the sudden those with the 10-22mm have no wide angle.
i wish it wasn’t CR1. one can only hope for.
I think the fast release cycles are to keep up with the competition to attract new users, especially as DSLR sales have gone up in recent years. Also, the 50D looks pretty dated already with the 500D on the shelves.
Don’t hold your breath.
exactly, even the Rebel/500D is 15 MP…lol,
Yeah, and talk about lenses dedicated to APS-C like the EF-S, Pentax blows Canon away there. The big things they are lacking to really steal the show is a 300 2.8 and 1080p video.
If this is true it means that the 1D4 will be either FF or APS-H about 16 mp. Doesn’t make much sense to have this series compete too much with the 1D series.
Yawnnnnnnn…..must be coming from a daydreamer.
Anecdotal evidence for sure but I have seen a lot of people with the 50D/EF-S 18-200 combo around London.
The more I read this rumor, the more it sounds like pure fantasy, not a believable rumor. The D300S is likely to be 15 MP as well. Look for it on July 29 or August 4th.
A APS-H Sensor at 12 MP? That is lower pixel density than the 40d, 50d, T1i and the Nikkor D300,& D5000. It will never happen. 15 or 16 MP is more of a reasonable density.
If canon can make an adapter for EF-S mount, then it will be a killer.
While it’s probably not going to be an xxD series camera, it’s the size of the xxD but with more value.
Weather sealed, more AF points, an APS-H sensor etc, all these things in a camera for $1999 is possible and I think it would be smarter for them to atleast go with a 15MP instead of 12MP sensor. Personally I think it should be $1700 or less, no one has deep pockets right now and the R&D is just bits and pieces borrowed from the 5D and 1D series.
Honestly weather sealing a camera is dirt cheap, and agreed w. some of the writings regarding the Pentax, there’s no reason why the xxD and higher are not sealed. They should be! I think in this economy, this day in age, and the extremely stiff competition, Canon is going to open up their eyes and we’re going to see some really good stuff come out.
This would be a great companion camera to my 5D Mark II if it does become reality.
Agreed. Something is wrong about one of the rumors then, this one and the 1d4 rumor, or possibly both are wrong.
yeah, i don’t get why they would jump to APS_C and then reduce the MP count from the APS-C 50D (not that i would replace the xxD series anyway, granted)
it would give back a lot of reach to the 50D and lot of resolution to the 5dmkii
15MP makes more sense
anyway it all sounds made-up or maybe based upon various internal potential 3D plans and experiments from who knows when
The D300s is slated to have the same 12.3 megapixels as the D300.
Why the need for 15 megapixels? I think 12 is plenty. In fact, I think 12 may be an ideal settling point for the time being. Enough for a lot of detail and large prints, but not so much that it starts to introduce too much noise into the picture.
I dont think it sounds realistic because of the lens compatibility and I highly doubt it will be compatible with both EF and EF-S.
I have made a lot of large prints from a 1DMK2 that look awesome, 8MP is plenty, you just can’t crop the hell out of it. I have a 5D and a5Dmk2 and the only thing I hate about the mk2 is that it eats up my hard drives. I would buy an APS-H 12 MP camera tomorrow if it was comparable to the 5Dmk2.
I’m not a “less MP” fanboy but “16mp FF, pro AF, full weather sealed, 5d2 size body, 7 FPS, for $2500 US” sounds great and doable, though I’d expect the same price as the 5D2.
If the APS-H thingy is true, most likely its gonna be a 15.1Mp sensor and a 12.3Mp APS-C crop mode.
Meaning, its gonna be backward compatible with EF-S mount. Which is not far fetched on a APS-H, likely a ~95% viewfinder to shrink down on the mirror a little to accommodate the EF-S rubber bung.
Will be quite an interesting development considering the pixel density. Wonder how ISO6400 would look like on this camera?
The weather sealing thing really bugs me. $2700 for a 5D2 and it’s not fully DW-R. If Pentax and Samsung can do it on $1300 and less bodies so could Canon. If it wasn’t for the lack of 1080p, FF and fast large tele’s I’d be saying Pentax is whooping everyone’s arse right now.
You keep your 12 MP pics. I’ll keep my 21 MP pics thank you very much!
that’s cuz the rumor is a joke, lol
It really is amazing how many people read this joke of rumor and think it’s an actual announcement from Canon…
80% of the buyers are first DSLR timers from the P&S market, and that market is just a matter of price point and kits, so that’s why there’s so many Rebels – T1i, XSi, XTi, XS are ALL current products hitting the $600, $700, $750, & $900 price points and a step up to $1500 for the more serious and upgraders. The much smaller market is pros and semi-pros so we see the cameras updated less often. Though I do think Nikon and others are pushing Canon to get more pro/semi pro product out and that’s why the 5D2 was released before the firmware was finished. Though Canon is still Canon, they are slow to move, but they do pack a heavy punch when they finally hit.
And pray tell me, what wide angle lens goes with this camera?
If Canon releases a 12 MP APS-H camera, they are indirectly conceding defeat in their sensor development department. It means they cannot replicate the sensor performance of the D90/D5000 in their APS-C sensors and must therefore resort to larger size sensors.
If this is true, it’s a very sad day for Canon supporters.
Sounds to me like that the next 1DMkIV will have a little brother with the same APS-H sensor. Sort of like a D3/D300 but with same size sensor instead of one FF, one crop.
This is the upgrade I’m hopping for my 40D. If EF-S lens work on it. I have no more resistance any more. I want one now. This camera is also my wish list. If only it wouild be thru
Ef-s lenses will not work on a APS-H the mirror will hit the back of the lens.
“If it wasn’t for the lack of 1080p, FF and fast large tele’s I’d be saying Pentax is whooping everyone’s arse right now.”
No kidding, that’s why Canon is better.
Which would you rather have, Canon replicating the D90 sensor, or making an APS-H sensor? I’d take the APS-H.
Show me the Canon EF-S 2.8 zooms and weather proofing on any cameras under $4000 and I’d completely agree with you.
I’d take neither. FF 5D2 and 1Ds3 works plenty fine.
That’s right. Almost all my current lenses are EF-S. So, only if the new APS-H camera can use EF-S lenses, I will sell my 20D and get one.
I should have said show me the WEATHER SEALED Canon EF-S 2.8 zoom lenses…like Pentax has..as well as the weather sealed bodies under $4000.
Yeah, that’s what I thought.
haha, no way. If Canon decided not to make their FF body to be compatible with EF-S mounts, don’t bet the APS-H will suddenly have backwards compatibility. Why? Cause if suddenly APS-H mount have EF-S, then they will be ppl pressuring Canon to introduce backwards compatibility with 1D and eventually Canon 5D and 1Ds which is what Canon do NOT want. So yeah.
It can work if the mirror box is re-designed. The clearance requirements are really quite small for a APS-H compared to a FF mirror box.
But the downside is that you’ll probably have to live with a smaller 95% viewfinder or a dimmer 98~100% one.
60d with APS-H, bah forget it.
7d with APS-H, Bring it ON!
12.1MP? canon will never do it. they have already said it, no going back.
6FPS ? hmmmm, isn’t canon getting slower ? at this rate their 90D will be 3 Fps…….
I say that this is now way true and the source should not be trusted.
ya right there, I agree gwac!
An APS-H 50D replacement? Hah!
An APS-C crop mode on a 15.1MP APS-H sensor would provide 9.3MP.
I was trying to point out that Pentax doesn’t have 1080p, FF and fast large tele. It just demonstrates that saying that if Canon doesn’t have this, this, this, and this, Pentax would be whooping ass is not saying much.
Then why are you complaining?
lol um, you’re not concerned that is all Pentax has to do to smoke Canon? Canon should so far out front no one could touch them.
But with the excellent Pentax ASP-C fast 2.8 zoom lenses, and with fisheye, great primes and wide zooms, FF is not such a big deal for that line. All they really need is a 300 2.8 (which would be a 450mm 2.8 35mm equivelent) and 1080p instead of 720p and they’d have it all for a lot less than Canon, and you could shoot in most any situation or condition and not have to worry your $2700 body is gonna die on you from the weather.
As I mentioned before, Canon won’t do it. They want their users to use only L lenses, heck why do they even bothered creating f/4 L lenses. Cause they want the users to get L lenses so it is easier for them to upgrade to FF in the future.
If you see Nikon world, you don’t see ppl talking bout owning Nikon FX glasses, instead most are perfectly happy with their DX glasses. Canon is smarter at these things.
APS-H at USD2000 when nowadays you get a D700 at 2300, does it make sense? I don’t think so. And what lens do you have to cover the wide angle side?
What about a 7D direct competitor to the D700 with 16MP FF, good low light, 6 FPS, weather sealing… and a D60 direct competitor to the D300 with 15.1MP APS-C, 6FPS+ and same body as 7D? And leave the 50D or its upgrade with VDO to compete with the D90, T1i with the D5000 and 1000D against the low end DXX. Like this if you want the low liht wide angle you go 7D, if you are a birder or sport photographer you go 60D.
We don’t need more MPs, and if I did not have my Canon lenses I would seriously consider a D700 right now
An affordable APS-H camera and a 400/f4.5L IS. Hmmm, if that’s true, i’ll eat my wifes cooking and never complain again.
I’m complaining about lack of weather sealing and other companies offering lenses Canon doesn’t, not the FF sensors. APS-H sucks (I have one, hardly ever use it) and so does the D90 IMO so I’d take neither of them.
60D should be FF with 16 mp and have the same noise quality as the Nikon D3 or better. It should also have Good AF, and good weather sealing.
This is the only way Canon can get attention to themselves anything else and their just doing incremental upgrades.
oh, and not to mention you can buy two K-7 bodies for the price of the 5D2 – the fact a $1300 Pentax is more rugged and durable than my $2700 Canon pisses me off.
You know I think its ok to pay a large sum for a good camera because there is a lot of work that’s put into it. But I just think in an economy where no one is doing well Canon might want to be a little more sympathetic to our wallets. On the other side of it, weather sealing is cheap as I mentioned, I guess they do have to find ways to pay for all those factories they have and supplies to purchase.
About 15MP being too much noise. I was worried about that with the 21.1 MP…and honestly I am shocked at how clean my 5D pics come out. It’s crisp and I don’t encounter noise problems even when shooting as high as ISO1600 (even after layer adjustments).
Oh well, I think we’ll have some fun new toys soon though. I’m excited regardless of the price. :D
I wouldn’t dare to complain. Would never get to buy any gear if i did.
Cucumber season, as we use to call it. This time of the year is full of unnecessary articles in the papers, really there is little to write about, so people come up with writings like this.
Don’t understand the excitement about a 1.3x prosumer camera.
All my four lenses are chosen because of their focal length on a 1.6x sensor.
If I have to upgrade to 1.3x or a FF camera, I’ll have to sell them all – not because of compatibility but because their focal lengths will no longer suit.
To me, this will be worth only if upgrading to FF.
Certainly not worth it for 1.3x.
Too expensive. Why buy a 12 MP APS-H when you can have 21 MP FF for just a few $ more?
And give up the EF-S lenses for that?
I’m going to go FF – or stay APS-C.
Many, many rumours point to a new AF system for a 1D4, so I would not be surprised to see the “old” (current 1D3) system being moved down the food chain; it would no longer risk weakening the appeal of their 1D line. Canon probably know the ins and outs of that AF system better than any they have ever produced (for reasons known to all), so it would be a shame not to squeeze a few more quid from it.
Sure, under some conditions, you might get only 90% of shots in focus with the 1D3 AF, but, under all conditions, my 40D only gets about 10% of shots in focus. The bloody thing has to go back to Canon for the third time in nine months. They keep telling me it’s “within specification” and I keep telling them it will only focus on red subjects; it can’t handle blue at all!
Cammon canon, all i need is cheap Full Frame not half hull frame with APS-H!!
why not reproduce the old 5D with new lcd with the same 12mpx?? and under USD2000?? i believe it will hit nikon really really hard!!
Maybe it would make sense if the competition was not so fierce these days. Canon had the market largely to itself for so long that they probably had a long-term roadmap based on gradual improvements that they are struggling to change.
Also, while people always complain about the megapixel wars, every time someone asks me about my camera, the first (and usually only) question is *always*, “How many megapixels has it got?” They always seem a bit bemused when I say, “Ten.” Perhaps they expected a few hundred, given how much bigger a 40D is than a compact camera. Megapixels are what the majority of people used to judge cameras, so do not dismiss Canon for doing what it takes to appeal to the majority of their potential customers. Video is now another box they now have to tick and that process is not going to change–ever.
Their decisions are based on what they think they can sell to the mass market, not on what they think would be the ideal camera for some fraction of that market. And, no, I don’t like it either.
I would of cooked for my self if I complained… and that tastes even worse!
the 5d is still been sold “for now” and you can get if ro less than $2000.
I only believe this when I see it but such a camera wold be a great addition and exactly what I would love to use except that I would like to see at least 8 fps.
Canon definitely needs something to compete with the Nikon D300. The 40D and the 50D are no match for the Nikon D300 in many ways and Nikon will surely bring an update for the D300 either this or next year.
If true, not 60D but 7D or something like that IMHO.
I doubt Canon would leave EF-S users without an upgrade path beyond the Rebels. They will need a new model at the 50D pricepoint too, so 1.6 crop 60D still on the cards, like CR suggested in his footnote.
The important feature in this rumored APS-H model would be the improved AF.
12Mp APS-H sounds doubtful to me. 15-16Mp seems more likely, and would still provide larger pixels than 50D.
Slower FPS makes sense because it would likely have just a single processor instead of the 1D series’ dual Digics. At 2000 bucks it would fit into the price gap between 50D and 5DII quite nicely.
I call bullsh!t on this one:
12MP @ 6 FPS – what, is it running Digic 2 chip?!
I hope it’s around 16MP and 8fps with the 1.6x crop and a much better AF, low noise at high ISO’s and 720 & 1080p at user variable frame rates with full manual TV & AV settings.
Oh and none of this new £100 per battery nonsense – that’s just ridiculous, especially when I have 15 BP-511’s kicking around that manage to do 1000+ shots each for a tenner or less!
The Pextax K-7 actuially looks pretty sweet.
My last Pentax was a K1000 and it was a tank.
Still is and still works.
But, I’m fine with my 40D at the moment…
-Mario
Cameras sells better than lenses. ;)
Next time, all CR1 sources should have their full e-mail addresses published alongside their so-called “rumor”, so all of us can bombard the source with hate mail if the rumors turn out to be cowdung.
This fantasy wishlist is CR0, I therefore conclude.
they physically cannot do it. EF-S (the s stands for short) lenses have a shorter back focus distance than EF lenses, if the mirror is bigger than APS-C it will hit the projecting rear section of the EF-S lens, making the camera an expensive doorstop.
FF sensors should be standard on all DSLR’s just like 35mm film. APS-C/APS-H are a bit fruity…
Hahaha. I completely agree with everything. I think emails should be posted for ridiculous rumors like this one. Also, I don’t believe there is any real chance this rumor has any credence.
Agreed, it would have to be some sort of adapter and include optics, it would just be a mess. The XXD line will continue to be 1.6 crop.
I think you’re right, but also that the 40D was a very significant upgrade over the 30. The 50D was an incremental upgrade over the 40D.
Last I checked, the D700 is still $2700 at reputable camera stores. Switch and bait places advertise $2300, but you don’t want to go there. You can get a refurb for $2170 at Adorama. The D700 is pretty much history, when they start selling the refurbs, thats often a sign that production is ending.
http://www.adorama.com/INKD700.html?searchinfo=nikon+d700/?kbid=64002
The big ‘wtf’ question for me is why wheather sealing isn’t ubiquitous. Seriously. It’s relatively cheap (the cost is passed on to us anyway) and it makes your camera last longer. Oh ya… Maybe that’s why. Hard to justify 18 month replacement cycles if the cameras are built too strongly.
And yet we stand for it!
If you want weather sealing on your next sub five k camera than start writing to Canon, don’t just post here.
My Canon rep in Mississagua gives me bs joke answers whenever I ask about weaher sealing on non pro cameras. Like, “why do you care, you’re not using those bodies anyways” smile, gigle, smile.
Sure, and then we would get no good rumors. Some of the sources have insider information, and would not dare provide it if they were to be publically identified. Of course, they could get a throwaway hotmail address, would that help you??
They could do it by going Liveview only and eliminating the mirror ;)
IMO if someone is looking for a system based around a $1500ish body, Pentax K-7 is the way to go. Canon seems to be focused on the entry level market pounding out new Rebels like Starbucks does coffee. They are letting others smoke them on the mid-level range. I get the whole EF-S thing, but Canon needs to take it more seriously or rethink how they are going to compete with other companies offering pro level APS-C dedicated lenses for what Canon is selling their flimsy EF-S stuff for and fully weather bodies for less than the 50D.
Many of us pro owners like small back up cameras or just want to shoot at 1.6 crop at times instead of losing light to a TC. Ask him why you should spend $4500 to $8000 for weather sealing when you can buy a $1300 body with it? Olympus has weather sealed bodies, Pentax has it, yet not even the 5D2 is fully weather sealed and its twice the price!
No thanks…I’d rather have the 60D that was rumored awhile back, APS-C, new digic processor, etc. Not everyone can afford a $2000 camera, the 40D price was just fine when it first came out ($1200).
Since so many people seem to think all the rumors coming in are false, I want to know what people think would be a “reliable rumor” or a “true rumor” in terms of camera specs. Note I’m not asking what people want, and I’m also not trying to incite new rumors.
it makes sense if you have a substantial amount invested in canon glass
how would having their e-mail addresses help?
Motivation for the next incarnation is to directly attack the success of Nikon
Shouldn’t the motivation be to give the Canon buyer the best camera possible.
people are expecting subtle changes… so that they can continue saying nikon is light years ahead… and canon just follows… but if canon tries to take a larger sensor to the XXD line, its BS because nikon has the D700 and nikon doesnt use APS-H
Sometimes the market you people are in is not the entire world… so maybe their opinion means nothing to the entire market.
that’s not true at all. refurb 1D3 and nikon D3 have been available within 6 months of release…
+1
The D700 can be bought new at B&H for under $2400. I don’t think B&H can be described as a “bait and switch” place. Nor can Amazon.
There’s nothing magical about a “full frame” sensor. APS-C sized, and even 4/3 sized sensors offer image quality that is very good – good enough for most people. Also, full frame sensors are currently too expensive to be applied to consumer-level DSLRs, especially when most people get all the image quality they need from smaller sensors. Not to mention size benefits of using the smaller sensor.
If you can afford full frame, it’s available – go ahead and buy it. Don’t whine about how all DSLRs should be full frame. The snobbery gets old real fast.
Not true. Canon & Nikon sell about 3 lenses for every DSLR they sell. And what about those who bought Tamron & Sigma?
50D refurbs started showing up in Feb. That’s about 6 months after announcement.
My wife’s a great cook, so what shall I do?
So the millions of Rebel owners out there who aspire to upgrade will have to dump all of their EF-S lenses.
Brilliant idea!
+1
My thoughts, exactly.
Here’s your camera: http://www.adorama.com/ICA5D.html
I don’t think APS-C, 4/3 or m4/3 are going anywhere, but I don’t buy your price argument – the price is high because they limit them to the top end models.
stop speaking for the entire world, only I get to do that ;)
hahahaha
If this can be the best possible camera in the prosumer class, according to Canon standarts it will be very bad!
I think it’s very good idea to attack the successor of D300, this is only way canon to make perfect camera in the prosumer class!
If you think that there is nothing special about FF sensors then you obviously have never used one! The quality is unmatched compared to APS-c( I own both!). I do agree however, that they definately do not belong in the consumer range. As such I am happy to see them priced accordingly! If they were to start putting them in everything then no doubt the quality would suffer as a result.
Yeah that wont happen. xxD and xxxD are gonna be stuck with APS-C forever.
Actually we need 135 IS or new version of 70-200 IS
It’s annoying, Canon always seems to hold back features / innovation solely because they don’t have to, they can wait, and they can charge money for minor upgrades each cycle. They seem to follow and keep up with innovation of other companies rather than creating the best they can, like Mr. Jannard at RED does.
That’s interesting, I’ve never heard anything about that before. What leads you to believe that? I would be interested to read about it.
I didn’t say there was nothing “special”, but rather “magical” People talk about it as if “full frame is the way it SHOULD be” just because 35mm film used the same image circle. In fact, the image quality from smaller sensor DSLRs is quite good, and suffices for most non-professional users (myself included). I have no doubt that FF offers better quality – I never argued that it didn’t. What bugs me is when FF users act as if smaller sensor cameras are a joke, and that FF is the “only way”. Most DSLRs sold are NOT full frame.
nah, Canon wants the user to UPGRADE bodies, so for those who upgrades from Rebel to xxD to xD will make Canon more happy then users who just upgrade to a xD or xxD body only :D
Furthermore, I bet one of the point Canon is sort of forcing enthusiasts to only invest in EF lens is to make it EASIER for them to upgrade to a FF body in the future :D
I do wished Nikon would release f/4 FX glasses :(
well If Nikon shook Canon with D300s replacement, then it will be 50D all over again O.O
any book about manufacturing economics will tell you higher quantities of production lead to lower costs
Well I cede my point. You obviously know a lot about sensor manufacturing.
Truth is canon just has to strap a 720p and 1080p 24 mode with manual controls on a 50D and re-badge it as a 60D and still sell millions with little effort.
Well, if you don’t consider your focal length getting magnified on you a bad joke on consumers then your sense of humor is a bit lacking IMO. Your 24mm should be 24mm, not 38mm. It’s not an issue of sensor quality with FF at this point as there are some good APS-C sensors, but come on, none of this lens magnification was a problem with 35mm.
Many professionals use cameras without a full frame sensor. Many magazine covers shot with xxD Canon and Dxxx Nikon!!!
Many professionals use cameras without a full frame sensor because so few models are available! That doesn’t mean that they are as good as FF. If that was the case, Canon themselves would NOT tout FF as an advantage for “using Canon lenses as they were designed” in their Professional product literature for the 1DS. That say it all; FF is the ultimate goal for Canon, (and probavly most/ all companies) with most cameras. That’s why there still produce Tele-xtenders for their lenses.
If you still think FF is not optimal, then you should go back to shooting with a 1V for a little while…
EF-S lenses will not work with APS-H cameras; there will be vignetting.
A simple solution is FF. All the regular EF lenses work great with FF, as they were designed to work with.
I don’t understand the fascination with APS-H or APS-C. If you want magnification factor, just use a teleconverter. It would be a hell of a lot easier for everyone if Canon just had FF cameras and their amazing lineup of EF lenses to choose from, instead of making more lenses and more models of camera bodies with different types of sensors…
1.3 sucks for some sports…
I really, really hope for Canon’s sake, and my anticipation for a new camera body, that the 1D4 is FF. If Canon doesn’t do that, they will have just added a significant amount of nails to their coffin they’ve been building the past few years. I might be forced to jump ship to Nikon if so, and I’ve been a diehard Canon user for over 13 years…
the xD camera is a pro camera too. That should be FF also.
LOL XD
CR: “APS H sensor in a xxD sized body”
does not say xxD will have bigger sensor
so everyone can stop crying.
/rant
APS H 12-16MP
xxD body size
1D2n autofocus
full weather protection
this sounds like a step in the
right direction
I would like to see a full frame version
Well, I think, if Canon were to make Nikon D300 competitor as a APS-H DSLR, then I expect the next D300 or D400 will be FF since Nikon doesn’t have APS-H or maybe they will contract Sony to make APS-H for them? I dunno, but it is also likely Nikon wont do it cause they don’t have f/4 FX glasses to soften the blow for consumers wanting to upgrade to FX.
how does the d700 do it then?
ok to be fair, the telecoverter use also means light loss, so that’s why people want crop, but one can crop in post from a high rez FF, but then it’s not wysiwyg shooting…
Nobody, least of all Canon, is forcing anyone to upgrade though. I kept my old D30 going quite well until I gave up waiting for the 1DIV and upgraded to the 40D. By then the 50D was out, but I didn’t fancy the smaller pixel pitch.
I dont think nothing in this rumor will likely happen before there is a new management team at Canon.
That is the way it works in very large companies :
– if the shareholders are happy with the financial results, they confirm both the strategy and the management team.
– once the shareholders are unhappy with the results, they kick the management out, and impose a new strategy.
So we will keep seeing xxD bodies with APS-C sensors, and more expensive bodies with APS-H and FF sensors.
I assume you mean the 70-200 2.8L IS not the F/4 IS which is already very awesome. :)
Exactly, why should you be forced into buying odd EF-S lenses just to get wide angle?
Sorry to point out the obvious but there is no point dropping cash on ef-s at all if you are wanting a camera system to last as long as the 35mm standard has. (or even 10 years from now)
All the talk of crop sensors being better for extending the focal range is a load of crap, you can crop in camera on a FF sensor to get the same ‘feature’ and when you want a 24mm lens to give a 24mm FOV you have it.
Standards are better for everything that is why atx has lasted in PC’s, why ISO even exists and why 35mm worked for so long. It has nothing to do with snobbery it makes sense and if the benefit of APS-C/H is to take out wide angle then it is a crap standard and should be phased out as soon as possible.
Even Canon realizes by now that xxD line buyers are not the entry-level public to whom you can keep pushing more MPs as something great and absolutely necessary. The best proof of the market awareness are the bad sales of the 50D. Another example is how well the 12MP D300 is still selling, 15 months after introduction, and even manages to keep a reasonably high price (almost double to the 50D at the moment, if I am not mistaken, and still outselling the 50D quite thoroughly). Rumor has it the D300s will still keep the 12MP count, so there is really no need for Canon to have more. If reducing the MP count results in better DR, less noise, etc. and coupled with a pro-level AF system, this will sell, regardless of whether it is APS-C or -H.
No, the 1D4 will simply be even better, especially the new AF system. I would also not be surprised if they offered a watered-down version of the 1D3 Af system on the 60D/7D, something like 30 AF points.
Actually, the rumor is good old 12MP for the D300s.
+1
For me – it’s the pro-level AF that really would be sufficient for such a move. And the lenses I am adding are all EF mount in anticipation, knowing whatever Canon does, the EF will be fully supported. Of course I would prefer a 5D2 with a pro AF, but since that did not happen…
I received an email from Canon to fill out a survey. Looks like they are getting feedback on a vari-angle LCD display (like Nikon D5000) and how important it is to photographers. IMHO, a vari-angle display is not a reason to upgrade, neither is the video. They’re nice value added features. At the end of the survey, you could rank the importance of features, including better/faster AF. I selected AF as #1 and LCD as #5 in order of importance. If you receive this survey, fill it out and voice your concerns. Canon is seeking input and if they listen and get enough of the same feedback, Canon may release the camera we’ve all been waiting for.
You only think of it as “magnification” because you’re using 35mm as a reference – it’s an arbitrary standard that came to be with film. Canon has a huge investment in lenses with that sized image circle so they continue to develop “full frame” cameras. That’s fine – I have no problem with it. All I’m saying is that for MOST users (ie non-professional) even APS-C sensors offer low-light possibilities that were unimaginable with film. There’s no de facto reason why 35mm lenses should be standard.
For example, Olympus makes lenses that are designed for the 4/3 sized sensors, and they are excellent – there is no loss of quality because of the smaller image circle, and they are generally more compact because of it. You can argue that the image quality is not as good, but that is an issue with the sensor and it is becoming less of a problem with time.
I agree that if you are using all EF lenses, shooting APS-C doesn’t make a lot of sense – you’re hauling around a lot of glass you’re not using. But with a good set of dedicated APS-C lenses, the system has some definite advantages, especially for those who appreciate the smaller size and weight.
huh?
APS-H bigger than APS-C
i don’t think that a replacement camera gets less pixel than the forerunner
“I don’t think B&H can be described as a “bait and switch†place.”
I am ABSOLUTELY certain B&H cannot be described as a “bait and switch” place.
—
Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video
As soon as there is no cost advantage to APS-C, you may get your wish – although I don’t see what you have to complain about since you’re obviously already using full-frame.
Hi Henry,
nice to see you here!
From B&H’s perspective, was Canon 50D a big seller? If not, how would you explain that, and did you have the opportunity to give some feedback to Canon representatives ?
Regards,
35mm lenses should be a standard because they have been for so long. There is a big ‘infrastructure’ of products to support this standard.
I believe that ef-s was created because FF sensors were very expensive (if not impossible) to manufacture at the time the first XXXD’s and XXD’s were introduced. I also believe we have reached the point where FF can be made at a price that they could be used on all the range, however likely it is marketing policy that is holding this back from happening.
Some of us old geezers bought a lot of our lenses before DSLR’s existed, so it’s not just Canon that has a huge investment in EF. hehe You are correct though about the amature market, and for many of those buyers Canon is no longer going to be the best choice as they can be quite happy with m43 and APS-C quality.
The irony for Canon is they could have prevented a large chunk of future lost sales to Panasonic, Olympus, Pentax, Sony and Nikon had they gone FF on their entire line instead of playing marketing games like keeping FF and weather sealing for their pro line and keeping APS-C around.
I don’t get the Olympus thing though. Their top lenses are more expensive than Canon’s L line, and it’s a smaller sensor, so one would think if you could afford $6000 Olympus 4/3 lenses you could afford a 1D3 and L series and have FF. Pentax makes sense with their APS-C line offering a better crop system than Canon at very reasonable prices on their fast weather sealed lenses.
And as for wide-angle, I use the 10-22mm and find it to be an excellent lens, notably smaller and lighter than the 17-40mm or the 16-35mm.
You think that because video is clearly not an important feature for you, but ask how many camcorder users would want their vari-angle LCD removed and get stuck with a EVF you can only use holding ther camera at eye level. Adding video to DSLR’s makes this an important issue, although I personally feel it is an advantage to be able to shoot over your head in a crowd or drop down and shoot low without having to lay on the ground but that’s just me…
Just a semi-random statement about crop sensors
1.6 crop factors do NOT actually give you ANY real zoom except as it MIGHT relate to sensor density. If you own an 8mp 20-30d it has the exact same reach as the 21 mp 5d2/1d3s because the pixel densities are the same. The only difference is you are taking a smaller picture “pre-cropped” picture. This does come into effect with the 50d which has the FF equivalent to 39 mp.
Besides the sensor advantages, i think FF looks better becuase I prefer the lower distortion, thinner DOF that comes with being able to shoot “wider” at at greater MM. I don’t like paying 1200 for a 70-200 2.8 and then not being able to really blow the background out of focus like i want while getting the person well framed. I also really like shooting ultra-wide.
With that said this rumor is not gonna happen as a 60d and i even doubt it as a 7d due to economics. Apc allows Canon to make lower cost cameras for everyone (not just consumers use apc!) I am glad I don’t have to heft the cost of a second FF to have a backup camera (i use an old 20d as backup).
What Canon really needs to do is step up to the plate and listen to what the both the consumers and pros are really clamoring for: moar direct print buttons. There should even be 1-2 on the lenses themselves. I know we would all give up having a MF-AF switch to have an extra Direct Print Button. Heck, remove the lcd and give me like 20 of them. That’s an upgrade I would pay for!
I totally understand – the entire professional community that shot 35mm before digital is invested in the system as well. But at the same time you have to understand that many, perhaps most amateurs/hobbyists, are picking up their first slr ever, and it’s APS-C or 4/3 (myself included). As such, I can argue that for new users, APS-C and 4/3 cameras ARE standard. I didn’t own any 35mm lenses before I got my camera.
I have no doubt that FF makes the most sense for professional users – I think I’ve alluded to that plenty. $6000 4/3 lenses don’t make much sense. But a $400 50mm f/2 lens with macro capability does make sense for amateurs.
There are now 3 manufacturers making full frame cameras, so competition is such that I am sure they are trying to produce at least one model at a low price point – all are invested in 35mm lenses so all will benefit. I’m not sure how long it will take for them to produce a FF camera that I am willing to pay for (~$1000), but I’m not going to wait around. I’m shooting now and I’m perfectly happy with APS-C.
dont be stupid dude! he said “APS-H sensor in a xxD sized body” like the rumor, that meens the BODY will be xxD sized, and that meens nothing for the xxD line, ergo, xxD almost surely stays APS-C
I don´t get it.
Are these comments about the Direct-Print-Button ironical jokes or are there really some peaople who need this button?
true, however, it is a variable aperture design with notably inferior build quality, (though not by much) so that’s not an entirely fair comparison.
regardless, I don’t think all DSLR should be FF, that is unnecessary and unnecessarily expensive. But is it too much to ask for a Pro body with Pro AF and High motordrive with FF from Canon? I’ll pay what is necessary, I just want to be able to shoot sports with wide-angle lenses and get proper bokeh from my super tele photo lenses. Is this too much to ask for?
Yes, it’s a good sign that maybe marketing departments will put more value on image quality than MP in the future. Enthusiasts, and even consumers, are catching on.
The variable aperture makes no difference to me.
I’m totally with you on the FF vs. APS-H, though it doesn’t affect me.
Yeah, it’s just a joke…how would a second DP button be helpful? And especially on the lenses…the lenses carry no information. Iiiiiiit’s just humor.
I wish that I could install my canon lenses on pentax. I would of bought thier k7
actually variable aperture lenses require less glass in their manufacture, its also a sideways way of saying its a little slower than the other lenses compared to it
A second DP button on a battery grip would surely be a must. Leaving it out would be as bad as leaving out the shutter button.
I mean the whole DP-Button thing not only the post of Nick.
I can only hope Canon is humbled by any poor 50D sales.
Pushing higher and noisy Megapixels in DSLR’s like they do with point and shoot cameras is strategy that is not resonating with prosumers.
I am glad Nikon is eating their lunch for this segment of the market.
On the other hand, at the focal length I use most (10mm) it would seem that the 10-22mm is marginally faster than the 17-40 f/4 – or is that a misunderstanding?
In use it doesn’t matter to me because I’m usually going for pan-focus rather than selective focus.
Really, most buyers don’t care about the size of the sensor and this includes prosumers.
Buyers care about image quality at a given price point and lens compatibility. Image quality can be ascertained at DP Review or elsewhere albeit a full frame sensor provides a better image for obvious reasons.
I hope Canon starts measuring their products on image quality instead of megapixels and sensor size and save us from doing the math on computing how crummy the pixel is.
I don’t mean to flame, but how would that be helpful?
Qucik,
give us a new rumour. Heck, I’ll make one up if need be. We’ve got way too many posts on this one…
+212
Indeed. Maybe someone should start a non-profit to educate consumers about megapixels and IQ? ;-)
Methinks megapixelssuck.org is available.
no you are correct when comparing to the 17-40, though over the entire zoom range that benefit is removed, and is non existant when compared to the 16-35 (my lens) where at the 35mm (or 22mm) and admittedly less useful end it lags more severely
Its a joke…
Personally given Canon’s obsession with direct print I’m surprised they haven’t tried incorporating a small printer into a camera body, something like this
http://www.polaroid.com/CES/ProductDetail.jsp?folder_id=2534374302037099&prod_code=PG009
or made their printers battery powered, or something…
Let’s not limit ourselves to buttons… if we could get a ‘direct print’ touchscreen LCD on the back that would be great!
Do you have numbers to back up your claim?
+ 1
It’s a great idea – I’m sure there’s someone with enough freetime to do this. Maybe Ken Rockwell??
lol.
I have never met 1 person who has a real use for the actual direct print button. They double as live view buttons now so they are moderately less stupid. (but only moderately…. things like shutter lock are use much more often)
I don’t have a problem with APS-C, though I think Canon is lagging way behind in that range now.
Check this out:
The PENTAX DA 50-200mm f/4-5.6 ED Weather Resistant Lens $249.95.
UMMMMMMMMMM!!!!
Yeah, that’s a weather resistant ED zoom (75-300mm equiv) for only $250…
Hello????
Canon????
ANYONE HOME?????
~
I hear that. I have some old big primes from way back pre-digital, can’t afford to replace them as they’ve gotten outrageously expensive, so I’m staying with the big C for now, I have small hope the 1D4 will go FF and the 60D will get a dose of real weather sealing and 1080p…but I’m not holding my breath.
I’d like the direct print button on my car stereo please.
I’m not saying the vari-angle is useless. For me, it’s not the reason I would spend $2000 to upgrade to a camera. If the camera had it, I would use it. Same for video. I would love to have video on my DSLR. However, based on my needs, a better AF would be of more use to me. On my wish list I’d want it all, but as a portrait photographer my need would be different than a landscape photographer or a sports photographer.
totally agree. Canon’s got one foot in, one foot out when it comes to APS-C.
So true! Although now that I’m playing with the video on the 5D2 I’m looking into small LCD’s I can put on the hotshoe to make Liveview easier.
They think 50D sales were bad…
If they think full APS-H is the way to go, that’s a big mistake. People enjoy the smaller sensors, myself included.
APS-H would be squarely a huge mistake. People looking to larger sensors are going to go for the 5D or it’s seniors. Make the 60D APS-H and most folks will either go to the 5D or step down to the rebel. Sales will go into the toilet in short order.
This is one rumour that’d better be false, for Canon’s sake.
Sounds like a good parts bin special to me. Take the 5D2 body with its nice screen etc. Put the sensor / mirrorbox in it from the 1D3 and the autofocus from the 1D2N (just so its not quite as good as the 1D3), stick a 7D badge on it and bingo! you have a camera a lot of people have been asking for for very little R&D.
Do the same, but with the 50D + old 5D sensor and here is another bingo, but hopefully cheaper!
>Canon is seeking input and if they listen and get enough of the same feedback, Canon may release the camera we’ve all been waiting for.
You assume that we all want the same thing! ;)
Okay, maybe I should have said, “The camera you’ve been waiting for” or more appropriately, “The cameras we’ve been waiting for”. We all have different styles and needs in a camera and one day there may be a camera that does it all. Until then I hope Canon can address some of our concerns.
I love my Canon and there are certain styles that I shoot that it’s just great at. But as my style of shooting has changed, I’ve started to outgrow my camera. Much like my lenses, at some point I need to upgrade my camera and now I’m looking for specific features that match the kind of shooting that I’m doing.
Nobody is right or wrong, these are just opinions.
If this rumor is true, i will buy the 60D as soon as it is available. 12 mega pixel censor with APS-H size will make it more a photographer’s camera (better noise, less demand on the quality of the lens etc. )The existing 50D is a case of marketing department dictating the product spec.without the real engineering data. All the test report basically say that the sensor require the resolution that most the existing lens cannot provide.
The 15 Mp on the 50D requires a lens that can resolve 105 pair per mm in order to get the resolution. not even the best prime lens can do it across the sensor. we are not even talking about diffraction effect yet. for a APS-H sensor with 12mp only needs 75 line pair per mm. most of the canon L lens will have a chance to meet it, at least in the center of the sensor. The beauty of both APS-C or APS-H sensor is the final image is based on the center image of the lens that is designed for full frame. Full frame lens have corner softness, distortion etc. the will be minimized on the smaller sensor.
Please read ANY test report on the 50D. They all show the noise id worst than 40D. the resolution is not obviously better than the 40D. the sensor is exceeding the capability of the lens.
Standards are man-made and will be changed by mankind. There are 6X9 mm and 6X6mm 4.5X6 mm standard before the 35mm. Remember the 120 films? The reason why 35mm stays so long is due to economic reason. Both the cameras and films are cheaper than the 120 film counterpart. Also 35mm equipment is a lot lighter and smaller than the 120 equipment. People are willing to give up a smaller percentage of quality to save a lot of money and weight. Even nowadays, if people want better quality from the film, they will still use 120 film to get 6X6mm or even 6X9 mm. So I do not agree that 35mm is the only standard in film. So there is nothing wrong to have more than one “standard” in the sensor size either. APS-C, APS-H can also coexist with the full frame sensor. There is no doubt that APS sensor equipment are lighter, smaller and cheaper than the full frame equipment. As for lack of wide angle lens, that is not true either. You can buy a 10mm lens for APS sensor DSLR. That is 16mm equivalent of full frame sensor. How wide do you need??
I hope Canon is not putting the old 5D sensor into the 60D. They should use the sensor technology from the 50D and come up a NEW 12 mp sensor for the 60D. Then Canon will have the most advanced 12 mp APS-H sensor and claim to be better than Nikon. This sensor will have much better noise performance and will be a great camera at ISO 6400. By the way, I do not really care if it is called a 60D or 7D. I just want a 12mp APS-H DSLR with all the features of the 50D from Canon.
August-October would seem right for its release.
12 mega pixels is not a big deal in these days. People will prefer buy the old 5D 12 mp but full frame, the 50D APS-C but 15 mega pixels or spend more money on the 5D MKII 21 mega pixels. Or change for Nikon.
I really don’t know who will buy a 12 mp APS-H Today.
If Canon is smart (I really hope) they will produce a camera with specs and price between the 50D and 5DMKII.
I cannot see why I should buy a 15 mp ASP_C with huge file size, more noise and no real improvement in resolution over a 10 mp ASP-C. 15mp ASP-C look good on paper .In reality it is a mistake for real photographer. As while I do not want to switch to Full frame, It is the size and weight. so for me a good 12 mp ASP-H with all the feature of the 50D is the answer.
I don’t get it.
If people would be so happy with 12 mp and low noise it looks easy for Canon use the same old 5D full frame sensor and a new digi processor to be faster.
Why Canon would develop a new 12 mp APS-H if they already have a great 12mp full frame sensor? Maybe that new sensor can work at ISO 140,000?
I would be happier with full frame sensor than APS-H if the camera is 12 mp.
And don’t forget about the 16 mp full frame sensor from 1Ds MkII.
Why we are talking about old sensors? Canon can makes better than that, and less than 15 mp will be a disaster.
What I think would be a killer camera would be an updated 5D classic that still has 12 MPs but new supporting technology and better autofocus. Price that at something like $1900 and watch it fly off the shelves.
Canon already improved the old 5D and that camera calls 5D MarkII.
The question is what Canon will show to replace the 50D.
Let us set the discussion right. The 5D mark II is a full frame sensor (21 mp). The second most expensive DSLR that Canon made is 1D mark III (10mp, APS-H sensor). That proves APS-H sensor with 10mp is a viable option. In will have a much better noise performance,better distortion,more even brightness. Also It will not be limited by the resolution of the lens. APS-C with 15 mp looks good on paper. In reality the result is not what you expect, due to the limitation of the physic. Just read any test report on 50D. They all tell you that its noise is worst than 40D. resolution is almost like the 40D. You end up with file size 50% bigger and with nothing to gain.
I agree with Josh that we need a 12 mp APS-H sensor with all the feature of the 50D and then some.
I prefer 12 mp APS-H DSLR instead of full frame is for the weight and size of the DSLR. Also most of the lenses are little bit soft and have more distortion at the corner of the image. APS-H uses only the center part of the image, Therefore most of the above mentioned problem will be minimized. Actually, I will be happy to have a camera using the 10 mp APS-H sensor from the 1D mark III with a body size and feature of 50D.
guess, we are at a turning point. only question what direction. I would be more than happy having a 12 MP low noise APS-H cam at a reasonable price instead of a next xxD pgrade to 1xsomething pixels and even more noise…but anyway, matter what, I soonest will upgrade beyond a 70D. My 30D is two years old @25k exposures
The following web site will be of great interest to you and blow the socks off from the higher pixel chaser
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/article_pages/guest/physical_limits.html
it wil cost less if it is produced in bulk i give you that but 35mm cmos sensor is very diffacult to produce becuse is has to be flawless for imageing purposes and that drive the cost higher regardless of quantity
Standards are man-made and will be changed by mankind. There are 6X9 mm and 6X6mm 4.5X6 mm standard before the 35mm. Remember the 120 films? The reason why 35mm stays so long is due to economic reason. Both the cameras and films are cheaper than the 120 film counterpart. Also 35mm equipment is a lot lighter and smaller than the 120 equipment. People are willing to give up a smaller percentage of quality to save a lot of money and weight. Even nowadays, if people want better quality from the film, they will still use 120 film to get 6X6mm or even 6X9 mm. So I do not agree that 35mm is the only standard in film. So there is nothing wrong to have more than one “standard†in the sensor size either. APS-C, APS-H can also coexist with the full frame sensor. There is no doubt that APS sensor equipment are lighter, smaller and cheaper than the full frame equipment. As for lack of wide angle lens, that is not true either. You can buy a 10mm lens for APS sensor DSLR. That is 16mm equivalent of full frame sensor. How wide do you need??
Bring back 10 MP!!!!!! Have your regular 60d with however many gazillion MP, but run a limited edition 60d 10MP . Is that too much to ask ?!?! Basically everything else the same , just make a “few” 10MP sensors , and “stick them in there”. Surely if Nikon was able to do it , and even with much cheaper camera (D40 and D40x), Canon is a bigger company , so that should be even less of a problem for them!
As a side benefit, they will find out if people care more about image quality , or gazzilion MP (yeah , i want both , but the cake hasn’t arrived yet so i can eat it too :) .
while I agree with the basics of your argument involving pixel density and its inverse relation with photo-site size, I would like to point out if you expect to see these advantages it will have to be on a recently designed chip to reach full potential. that means R&D, more so the development, but none-the-less, its not exactly practical to design a sensor for such a small number of cameras.
personally I would prefer they just stop at 15MP, having fulfilled most every consumer need and from there work on improving sensor properties including noise, dynamic range, and color fidelity
Sensor technology has come a long way since the 20D, 10 mp days. In order to catch up with the technology, Canon cannot just put the old 10 mp sensor in any new camera. For me a new 12 mp or even 10 mp in the APS-H size sensor with all the new technology ,i.e. smaller space between pixel and no gap between the lens for each pixel plus lower intrinsic noise etc. will be the answer. Then, put ALL the features from 50D into it. This will make a killer camera. I am sure that most photographer will prefer it rather than the 15 mp sensor 50D.
The focal length is the same no matter the crop idiot. It’s FOV that changes. Your post is a bit extreme.
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/article_pages/guest/physical_limits.html
The above web site is a good article to read about limitation of pixel size. foe me 15 mp on a APS_C sensor is not a good thing to do. Have you ever wondering why most of the lens test result showing the lens performance start to deteriate after f 5.6 with a APS-C sensor ???
We all want to hear more news on the much anticipated 60D. My understanding that it is going to wipe the floor with the D300. Expect formal announcement week beginning 24th Aug-09, with perhaps some leaks coming before then.
I look forward to an actual upgrade to the 40D. Like others have said, the 50D just plain sucks (I was expecting something better than the 40D). I’m a canon owner myself, and was considering making the jump to a 50D (I’ve owned an XSi now for a little while, and feel I’ve “grown” out of it), but the 50D is honestly just not worth it. I’d be better off with a 40D. I’ve played with a friend’s 40D quite a bit, but don’t feel it’s necessarily worth the upgrade for me. anyway..
A friend has a d300, and I must say, it wipes the floor with the 40D/50D. It ALMOST made me want to sell all my lenses and switch to Nikon. What do I love about it? 2 main things.. PQ is outstanding (hands down beats the 50D), and the autofocus system is awesome for a casual photographer. You aren’t stuck with a small diamond (like on canons), and can frame your shot nicely (I hate it when the AF point is JUST off, and it focuses on the background instead of the subjects in the foreground). I realize it’s not quite as fast/good as the 50D’s AF points, but if you’re mainly shooting portraits/landscapes, speed is not a necessity.
Either way, canon needs to get their s**t together because they got their clock cleaned by Nikon w/ the d300. It’s by far the best prosumer dslr. Sure the D300 is more than the 50D, but you get SO much more camera for a couple hundred bucks more. In a couple years (when I’ll be itching to upgrade my dslr), hopefully there’ll be a much better alternative to upgrade to, or I just may be switching to Nikon.. Here’s hoping they get it right. Oh ya, like others said, we have enough MP’s these days. They ought to focus on actual image quality vs. cramming more pixels on a sensor.
Well said. Hopefully they won’t spend too much time concentrating on trying to outdo competition on the video components and will work on where it matters, being the PQ.
The D300 killer is here.
Just in, specs as follows:
15.1MP
7.4fps
OLED 3′ display, 1.15m pixels
19 (yes, 19) point autofocus
ISO 100-25600
SDHC memory (!)
May I request to kindly let me know 3 fundamental differences between the APS-C and Full Frame sensors? I use a 450D at present and contemplating a 5DMII for higher quality results from my L lenses. Pls advise.
This is important!|I try to show similar soulful message
Great Post! This might be a little off topic but has anyone ever been to an island Boracay? Its like that movie The Beach with Leonardo Dicaprio!