Canon Rumors said:

7K FF Back-Illuminated CMOS Sensor

See full article...

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I don't think Canon has made any claims about this being a BSI sensor...? It seems to be a resolution-bumped version of the R6 II's 24mp FSI sensor.

Michael Clark said:

We don't know that those other camera do not meet the required norms, we just know that they haven't been submitted for the rather expensive certification process.

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Yet, I prefer getting a certification by an official organism over relying on vague marketing promises...
I think we know for instance the value of Sony's "weather resistance" in the past...

having read this article, my next thought, for some reason, was; "I wonder what a 6DmkII in good condition is priced at?"
Just checked the R6mkIII price in my area while typing; $3500. Indeed. Obviously not a customer.

I agree with most of the technical "wish list" items.
A simple feature that seems lacking in most of the lineup of Cannon is geolocation. Why can a camera of this level not have this basic modern feature?
Given the general consensus that the R7 is used for wildlife and if Canon want to make it a truly wildlife / outdoor camera they must include geolocation / GPS into the body.
So wildlife / outdoor features should include:
FAST APS C sensor to avoid rolling shutter. Electronic only is good if it is not subject to rolling shutter effect
APS C is great for giving that extra reach on lenses
Geo location is a must
A good low light performance would be great since artificial light with wildlife is not always possible. Again a good new sensor.
High burst rate 40 raw. high res video at high frame rate for slow-motion
Pre-capture
No blackout / blackout free EVF
Fast and smart advanced AF
at least 33MP - higher would be great to allow cropping
Good stabilization (IBS) because most shots are out of the hand
focus bracketing

MichelleVanTine said:

I'm happy you mentioned the R5M2 overheating because at my job last weekend it overheated and needed a complete shut down TWICE! I'm very tired of the basic missing the marks by Canon. I was SO happy with Canon until the mirorless. My R5 completely and utterly fell apart. I wrote about it here: https://fstoppers.com/reviews/hey-canon-why-are-your-cameras-falling-apart-636447 . YEars later I get emails and DMs of people contacting me that they also have this issue. I was so put off that it took me quite awhile to jump back on and get the next camera. I got the R5M2 and now it's overheating. I think these are such BASIC functions. Why are we missing the mark. Every reveal is some dramatic YouTube 'end of the world earth shattering' announcement but I find myself with my LCDs being held together with rubber bands and my cameras overheating in 65-degree weather. I'm so disapointed in Canon honestly.

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Was in Kenya last month shooting in hides in the night as well as early morning and late afternoon and had my R5MII overheat on multiple occasions. I've actually had more problems with it overheating than my R5. Was shooting stills, no video. Was using mechanical shutter and not doing prolonged high speed shooting.

Snapster said:

Huh? That was exactly my point. Canon don't make RF primes I want to buy. And the new 45 is yet another hard pass with it's crazy CAs.


Nikon 50mm 1.8S is the reference here. At least they can make acceptable quality for $500, instead of entry level garbage.

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The Nikon 50 1.8 is more than just acceptable quality. It's a top quality prime lens.

Maximilian said:

And When you think it‘s overpriced, just don’t buy it.

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Huh? That was exactly my point. Canon don't make RF primes I want to buy. And the new 45 is yet another hard pass with it's crazy CAs.

Maximilian said:

But to think, Canon will offer you an L prime below $1k MRSP is as far from reality as it was the last few years or even decades.

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Nikon 50mm 1.8S is the reference here. At least they can make acceptable quality for $500, instead of entry level garbage.

Couple of shots with a different old lens. R8 with Minolta MD 200mm f/4.5 (not a mirror). This lens is in very good condition and pretty sharp wide open.

Stellar Jay snitching the birdseed I put out for the Juncos.




Full house on the favorite feeder.

I was thinking about this. They are very close in price. It's actually kind of a tough choice. I am mainly stills focused, but I prefer sensors in the 30 MP range. I do feel like the R5's EVF would be nicer but I haven't used it. I'd need to try them both out to see.

Canon Rumors said:

There seems to be a lot of different experiences with the R52 in challenging environments. I've heard a lot of overheating stories for just photos, as well as the camera being inoperable in the cold, and not even extreme cold.

Josh had it in Mongolia and it was "useless". The R5 had no issues outside of batteries in the cold.

No idea.

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Is it a suprise the R5 is good in the cold? Just joshing you!

Michael Clark said:

Not releasing any new lenses (or camera bodies) for a system while continuing to manufacture and sell some of the lenses (and bodies) in that system is not the same thing as discontinuing those existing products and no longer making or selling them. Many, though apparently not you, were crying that their system had already been "abandoned" when Canon was still manufacturing and selling existing lenses (and bodies) in that system. Even now, many EF-M lenses (and bodies) are still being serviced when needed by Canon.

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M and EF(-S) gear will be serviced till 7 years have passed from when they have been discontinued. So your M gear is still being serviced by Canon but the clock is ticking. And Canon does that because a) they are bound by law and b) it would be bad customer karma to not support older gear till the expiration date set by law. Not because they want to keep the M system alive further.

Regardless, when a manufacturer stops developing new gear for a system, the writing is on the wall and the managed descent into the inevitable decline starts. Obviously the manufacturer will not say that openly since they want to keep selling unsold inventory as long as possible. They will use careful language to give the impressions that the system is not being abandoned, while in reality it is. I've seen many people quoting Canon or Sony execs saying that they were still supporting M or A or whatever every time the future of their system was put into question. Sorry to say, but those people were drinking the company's Kool-Aid.

We may call a system dead or abandoned or obsoleted or discontinued or on an undetermined hiatus or whatever term you find not offensive. But the fact of the matter is that such systems are not being developed further and they will be inevitably left behind as technology marches on and new offerings are not compatible anymore.

Having said that, those discontinued cameras and lenses can still take great images till they keep working. I know very well that the HC system is dead. But I still happily use my H5X till it will give up the ghost. I am looking at a H2D II though. Because my H5X is not in great shape and getting it repaired, while still possible, is getting more and more expensive (like $1500 to replace a faulty leaf shutter - it gets to the point where it's cheaper to buy a replacement used lens than to repair one).

I do not harp on a system being on the way to oblivion, because I do not think it's great to lose choices, nor it is great for the ones who have invested in such system, but at the same time I do not put great hopes in the goodwill of manufacturers.

Michael Clark said:

"Entry point for FF" at $2K+ does not equal "budget entry point for FF" and barely $1K.

When the 6D debuted at $2K+, there were plenty of $1K and under budget DSLRs.
When the RP debuted at $1.2K, there were fewer sub $1K and under budget DSLRs, and the floor was higher due to inflation in the intervening 8+ years.

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About your other message: you did reply to 5 of my messages, which were all on the same topic... but they were in different threads.

Well there is one entry point FF at any given time. Who are we to decide what price is considered to be "budget"?

Tom R5R7 said:

Well, I don't think anybody expects a full line of RF-s lines that exactly duplicate their full frame counterparts.

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Agreed than no single person expects a counterpart for every EF lens, but a lot of folks want an EF-S equivalent for whatever particular EF "equivalent" lens they want. When taken collectively from all of them, it just about covers the entire range.

Ozarker said:

It sucks. Life passes far too quickly.

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I tend to be a cynic about most things. But in terms of aging I've always been more thankful that it even happened than that my time is much closer to the ending than it is to the beginning. Compared to the vast majority of humans who have ever lived, I've had an immensely fortunate, long, and enjoyable life.

roby17269 said:

But they did eventually abandon M and then EF(-S). In the same fashion there were a lot of people in denial about that fact even after Canon stopped releasing anything for those systems. Same with Sony users when Sony stopped making A cameras or 4/3 users when Olympus moved to micro4/3

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Not releasing any new lenses (or camera bodies) for a system while continuing to manufacture and sell some of the lenses (and bodies) in that system is not the same thing as discontinuing those existing products and no longer making or selling them. Many, though apparently not you, were crying that their system had already been "abandoned" when Canon was still manufacturing and selling existing lenses (and bodies) in that system. Even now, many EF-M lenses (and bodies) are still being serviced when needed by Canon.

Del Paso said:

And yet, there are cameras and lenses which are, for instance IP 53 certified, like OMs or Leica's IP 54.
Still better than relying on hollow "weather resistant" promises.
No, not even they should be submerged, but, at least, they meet an official norm unlike all Canons, Sonies, Fujis etc...

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We don't know that those other camera do not meet the required norms, we just know that they haven't been submitted for the rather expensive certification process.

roby17269 said:

And as I have written elsewhere, I do not use the sensor's model to classify cameras, but I look at sensor size and at camera's relative position in Canon lineup at the time the camera is current. So to reiterate, for me the 6D (e.g.) was the entry point for FF at the time of its introduction

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"Entry point for FF" at $2K+ does not equal "budget entry point for FF" and barely $1K.

When the 6D debuted at $2K+, there were plenty of $1K and under budget DSLRs.
When the RP debuted at $1.2K, there were fewer sub $1K and under budget DSLRs, and the floor was higher due to inflation in the intervening 8+ years.

roby17269 said:

I feel like I have a stalker now
You could have replied to me once, it would have been enough. And I know I know I am guilty of the same now

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I've only replied to you once in the comments to this particular post.
(Well, this one is twice. My next comment will be thrice.)

m4ndr4ke said:

The one I like the most is that of the 28, because it's the hardest to turn, but I use them mostly on the 16mm f/2.8 and the 28-70mm f/2 L, because I use those two lenses for work.

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I don't understand why Canon made the ring different on every lens. My 28mm 2.8 is super smooth with nice resistance and same for the 24-50. But the 24-105 is easier to turn, feels not so nice.

Walrus said:

I was sure (never getting involved in them, as I said) that the VCM's aperture ring was with hard clicks, but thinking abut it it makes sense it's fluid, as is aimed to video; but then it gets pretty useless for photography, where hard clicks are better.

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Yes, it's smooth, with low dampening, it runs easier than Canon's smooth control rings.
I'd prefer not having that thing at all, I think the control ring is a smarter choice.

Walrus said:

Premium lens manufacturers have switches for turning aperture rings between clicked and de-clicked, that's unfortunate Canon is not one of those premiums. And pretty sure also Chinese manufacturers have lenses with such system.

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Most manufacturers are implementing very gentle clicks, unfortunately, that do not prevent accidental changes so, there's no real need to be envious, in my opinion.

Walrus said:

In fact I'm pretty pissed off that the control rings on ALL the RF lenses I have (16 STM, 28 STM, 50 STM and 28-70 STM) are de-clicked as they doubles-up as manual focus rings; they should have been all clicked

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You know what, It's been years and I still don't have a clear preference because, while I'm not very enthusiastic about the smooth ring, I don't like the way the others click either. I often find myself "between clicks" and it's weird. As it is, the smooth ring gives me more confidence to use, because it's consistent.
The one I like the most is that of the 28, because it's the hardest to turn, but I use them mostly on the 16mm f/2.8 and the 28-70mm f/2 L, because I use those two lenses for work.

Snapster said:

The VCM lenses have all been forced into the same form factor for gimbals & video. I cant imagine that comes without any compromise in their design

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That doesn't mean they would be bigger if they were made exclusively with photography in mind, perhaps it would be the opposite. If you look at Sony's equivalent options (they just don't have a 20mm f/1.4), only the 85 is slightly bigger. The 24, 35 and 50 1.4 G-Masters are smaller than VCM lenses and use the same filter size.

Snapster said:

Or prioritizing features like focus breathing correction which is useless for me.

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While it may be useless to you, it doesn't mean it's not useful for photography.

Snapster said:

And dont get me started on the rattling focus motors

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Just imagine if a lens had loose elements while it's powered off, oh the drama...Wait a minute, we've been like that for decades with IS lenses.

Snapster said:

the aperture ring that doesnt work on an R5

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It shouldn't exist at all IMO, but I'll let you have that one.

"Let's not forget built quality"

The body of a Glock pistol is plastic, so plastic should be robust enough for a camera.

jam05 said:

My R5mkII has never overheated. And I've shot in over 100 degrees for hours. Rather than simply saying "It over heated", give us a little more context, such as what settings, mode, etc. Mine is in good shape and I could resell it as "like new" body condition. That's how well I take care of all my electronic devices. And they have been through the Amazon basin. Many other owners have been on safari and wild life expeditions, and theirs have no such "falling apart". I take what I often read on "fstoppers with a grain of salt. They have been historically "Canon bashers".

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I've used my 2 R5 II for long hours at temperatures of 35° celsius without any single overheating warning. Cameras exposed to full sun hanging from backpack straps on capture peak clips...Oh, they also were exposed to some heavy rain showers.
R5 IIs "falling apart"??? Very hard to believe.
And I also distrust fstoppers' Canon alternate reality.

MichelleVanTine said:

I'm happy you mentioned the R5M2 overheating because at my job last weekend it overheated and needed a complete shut down TWICE! I'm very tired of the basic missing the marks by Canon. I was SO happy with Canon until the mirorless. My R5 completely and utterly fell apart. I wrote about it here: https://fstoppers.com/reviews/hey-canon-why-are-your-cameras-falling-apart-636447 . YEars later I get emails and DMs of people contacting me that they also have this issue. I was so put off that it took me quite awhile to jump back on and get the next camera. I got the R5M2 and now it's overheating. I think these are such BASIC functions. Why are we missing the mark. Every reveal is some dramatic YouTube 'end of the world earth shattering' announcement but I find myself with my LCDs being held together with rubber bands and my cameras overheating in 65-degree weather. I'm so disapointed in Canon honestly.

Click to expand...

My R5mkII has never overheated. And I've shot in over 100 degrees for hours. Rather than simply saying "It over heated", give us a little more context, such as what settings, mode, etc. Mine is in good shape and I could resell it as "like new" body condition. That's how well I take care of all my electronic devices. And they have been through the Amazon basin. Many other owners have been on safari and wild life expeditions, and theirs have no such "falling apart". I take what I often read on "fstoppers with a grain of salt. They have been historically "Canon bashers".