mccasi said:

Sorry to be that guy, but the Sony 14 1.8 gm is half the price, 2/3 the weight, smaller and famously has no aberrations wide open on a 60MP sensor… the canon 14mm has to be stopped down to 2.8 to be even remotely where the Sony is… and that’s before you consider the a7cr has 1 stop better noise performance - which gives it 2.5 stops advantage … the comparison is so ridiculous that CR has ignored it from the comparison

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Assuming that’s true (I’m not familiar with the noise data on the Sony, sorry) it would cost me £4000 (approx) to buy that lens/body combo. The Canon lens is £2400. Given I’ve already got Canon kit, even if I was “Astro-curious” and flush with cash so wanting to buy something wider than the Rokinon 2.8 I’d have a hard time justifying buying the Sony.

Sorry to be that guy, but the Sony 14 1.8 gm is half the price, 2/3 the weight, smaller and famously has (almost) no aberrations wide open on a 60MP sensor… the canon 14mm has to be stopped down to 2.8 to be even remotely where the Sony is… and that’s before you consider the a7cr has 1 stop better noise performance (source:https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/RN_e.htm) - which gives it 2.33 stops advantage …

if you do wide angle Milky Way photography normally:
1. set the aperture to acceptable aberrations canon 14 1.4 @ 2.8, Sony 14 1.8 @ 1.8
2. Star tracker MSM nomad or something
3. 15-30 sec sub exposures
4. Stack the foreground and background etc
Then this lens needs somewhere between 2.33 to 3.33 the integration time for the same results!!

Buy this lens if you’re happy to spend EXTRA 13 sub exposures for EVERY 10 sub exposures you would take with the Sony setup.

the comparison is so ridiculous that CR has ignored it from the comparison

… avoid the ad hominem attacks guys. @Canon Rumors I’m disappointed you participate in pure tribalism

Richard CR said:

maybe contrast detect and the smallest point source?

but a hard and/or fixed infinity stop would be problematic for sure.

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Yes, something like that would be fantastic. Although I have to say that at least Canon has a good zoom in ratio on the R5 and other bodies. It makes it reasonably quick to get focus in the dark.

neuroanatomist said:

Most lenses can focus beyond infinity (insert Buzz Lightyear motto here, if you like), because the position of the focusing group(s) for infinity focus varies based on the temperature of the lens. Does Hasselblad take that into account? Warm night? Cold night? Lens heater? For astrophotography, I would not rely on a preprogrammed infinity focus.

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maybe constrast detect and the smallest point source?

but a hard and/or fixed infinity stop would be problematic for sure.

benperrin said:

One thing about these calculators that people seem to miss is that resolution plays a part. It really does seem like 8 seconds is a good exposure time without a star tracker. PetaPixel was really defensive when people called them out in the comments.

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Our calculator takes into account resolution (or more accurately, the pixel pitch) as well as the target declination. Writing up the description of that calculator gave me a headache. I think with a 24MP sensor, you could get away with around 14 or so seconds, but if you want to pixel peep with a 45MP sensor, yeah you are looking at around 8 seconds.

I purposely left out peta pixel as the source, but yeah. i'm not sure what was going on with that review.

benperrin said:

However one feature I'd really like Canon to implement is an infinity focus recall/set button. Hasselblad seems to have that feature where you press infinity and it focuses for you. If anyone knows how to do that on a Canon I'd love to know. It would save some time.

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Most lenses can focus beyond infinity (insert Buzz Lightyear motto here, if you like), because the position of the focusing group(s) for infinity focus varies based on the temperature of the lens. Does Hasselblad take that into account? Warm night? Cold night? Lens heater? For astrophotography, I would not rely on a preprogrammed infinity focus.

Richard CR said:

There were other aspects as well, lens profile (they used the RF 16mm profile), focusing, etc., on that image that I won’t get into. The workflow and exposure settings were not optimal decisions, so it seems odd to conclude it was a problematic lens.

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I had thought PetaPixel was reasonably reputable. The wrong profile, and one for a relatively cheap, 2-stop slower non-L lens. He also applied additional manual distortion correction, which is linear and barrel only, while a proper profile corrects for the nonlinear nature of most distortion and any mustache components. The only conclusion I draw from that review is that I will no longer consider PetaPixel as a trustworthy source of information. Personally, I would not repost images from the review...it's not as egregious as some other misinformation that has been spread around over the past several years but better to be part of the solution than part of the problem, IMO.

One thing about these calculators that people seem to miss is that resolution plays a part. It really does seem like 8 seconds is a good exposure time without a star tracker. PetaPixel was really defensive when people called them out in the comments.

However one feature I'd really like Canon to implement is an infinity focus recall/set button. Hasselblad seems to have that feature where you press infinity and it focuses for you. If anyone knows how to do that on a Canon I'd love to know. It would save some time.

Click said:

The bee cannot land on the plant, the FAA has closed the control tower. Very nice series, ISv.

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By reason: it's very windy in the last several days!

AlanF said:

I prefer it to be in the 5-series. At least one of us will be happy if they do make a higher resolution sensor in one of the series!

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Of course I can live with a R5 body, as I am doing now. If they will release a higher mp R5 I will seriously consider it.
I would still prefer for the same camera to be in a gripped pro (whatever that means ) body...

SnowMiku said:

I hope the R10 II gets the LP-E6 battery, just like the xx DSLRs before it, make it a true 90D replacement.

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Better the LP-E17P, plutonium battery. Much lighter than the original and it puts out up to 1 kW in perpetuity .

zamorano said:

But I'm not sure if waiting for the R10ii makes sense if the R7i can be bought now for 1000 EUR? Would it be cheaper, or have more features? A newer and faster sensor - probably not. How likely is it to get the LP-E6 battery? Newer software, probably - but better than the R7i? Most of its technology will be recycled from previous models, and not from the high end ones either.

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I'm in this dilemma.

I'm actually considering trading my R50V for an R7I or a future R10II and some feature dilemmas I'm facing are:

- Color file video shooting. The R50V has more "clog3-like" video modes than the R7, with HDR PQ, HLG, standard and Canon Rec 709 with tons of tuning for each color profile. AND I can bake in 33-point LUTs. The HDR PQ file (with some tweaks) looks incredible straight of the R50V, so I'd really, really miss this.

- Long GOP video shooting (whereas the R7I only seems to encode all-I).

- More granular bitrate selection, eg shooting SDR in 10-bit HEVC instead of being forced to use AVC like the R7.

- More autofocus subject types. I forget what the R7 has, but newer bodies can specify cars, animals, or a database of specific people, and some AF features are missing from the R7.

- Allegedly better color profiles for HDR PQ still shooting than the older R7's HDR color tuning.

- A less extreme crop for 4K60 mode (though a 32MP R10II would negate this).

- USB UAC. The R50V can be used as a webcam with no extra drivers, whereas the R7 practically can't... Not without the buggy, low quality, subscription Canon webcam app.

- A base ISO of 400 for Clog3 vs 800 for the R7. This is a mixed tradeoff.

- 5GHz wifi, vs 2.4Ghz for the R7. But the Canon Connect app is horrendously slow with 5Ghz anyway, way slower than USB2, and images.canon is kind of dystopian, so this isn't a huge deal.

I'm listing these out because the R10II will hopefully have all this too, unless Canon really cripples it for video. But if none of that sounds important to you, a discount R7I makes a lot of sense.

In addition, the R7I's video IBIS is notoriously "wobbly" and jerky, something they could fix with an R10II. It's possible that sensor readout could improve over the R7I too.

***

Currently, my plan is to wait for the R7II to ship, as I assume thats when a ton of R7I bodies will hit the used market and prices hit a local low. And we should have more solid R10II rumors by then.

roby17269 said:

I agree with you. Sadly, since I do not personally like it, but I think you are right more likely than not

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I prefer it to be in the 5-series. At least one of us will be happy if they do make a higher resolution sensor in one of the series!

bclaff said:

The RF 7-14mm isn't at all close to the EF 8-15mm. Here's my overlay:
View attachment 227919
The clincher is that the EF is an Equisolid projection and the RF is Equidistant.

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I had to google the meaning of your explanation and the words "equisolid" and "equidistant", but it was fun reading about it!: thx

bclaff said:

Tou can play with these at the PhotonsToPhotos Optical Bench.
Canon EF8-15mm f4L Fisheye USM
Canon RF7-14mm F2.8-3.5 L Fisheye STM

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zamorano said:

I guess the R7i was designed during a shrinking market to replace two product lines, the 7D and the 90D and the result was something that was too pro for enthusiasts (for ex. dual card slots) and not enough pro for pros (no weather sealing). Now that the market has recovered somewhat, it seems the R7ii is going back where it was supposed to be.

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Agreed.

zamorano said:

If the R10ii becomes an enthusiast-only version of R7 (like the 90D), the question is whether the IBIS will be considered a pro feature or not. Sony has had an IBIS-equipped enthusiast camera for 10 years now (from A6500 onward) roughly in the price range where the R7i is now and the R7ii won't be, so hopefully Canon will make one as well.

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Agreed again.

zamorano said:

But I'm not sure if waiting for the R10ii makes sense if the R7i can be bought now for 1000 EUR? Would it be cheaper, or have more features? A newer and faster sensor - probably not. How likely is it to get the LP-E6 battery? Newer software, probably - but better than the R7i? Most of its technology will be recycled from previous models, and not from the high end ones either.

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If Canon sells off the current R7s, then yes, R10ii will have its place. In this regard, Canons timeline makes sense: The current R7 can be bought for 1.100 € at certain sale events, the R7ii will be released in may and the R10ii in Q4 and probably when stock of the R7 has diminished drastically.

EthenJ said:

So an R9 basically? Like a 90D. I buy that.

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Nope, not an R9. I figure the R9 is reserved for an entry level full frame camera IF Canon decides they need one more model beneath the R8. Atm, the RP currently occupies that space and still seems to selling well, at least in Germany and the yearly sales events such as Black Friday, cyber Monday and prime day. Once the R8ii hits the market the R8 will probably occupy this spot, so I don´t think will release an R9 in the next few years.

EthenJ said:

That sounds awesome. Yeah, I shouldn’t be so cynical about IBIS. But:

> Interesting, so Canon should follow the lead of their competitiors. I always thought Canon really likes to take the lead instead of following it.

Not necessarily on pricing, heh. And the cheapness of the R7I would still put it in a weird spot.

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Yeah, when it comes to pricing the manufacturers kind like to play chicken. Just like Canon and Sony did with the R6iii and A7V.

DhlcadR6 said:

I expect a Single SD slot R7, with updates on softwares.....

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I would love that. Especially if they can price it below the R7I.

neuroanatomist said:

Canon knows how much profit they made from 5Ds/5DsR bodies, compared to the 1Ds series. If we see another 'high MP' body (i.e., significantly more than the R5 line) from Canon, I strongly suspect it will be in the R5-series body type and not the R3.

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I agree with you. Sadly, since I do not personally like it, but I think you are right more likely than not

Sporgon said:

Indeed that’s what history tells us so far. I’d see an ultra high mp R3ii as basically a ‘R5S’ configuration.

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Canon knows how much profit they made from 5Ds/5DsR bodies, compared to the 1Ds series. If we see another 'high MP' body (i.e., significantly more than the R5 line) from Canon, I strongly suspect it will be in the R5-series body type and not the R3.

There is different “colour science” for portraits (skin tone warmth) and for nature (correct biological colour). Maybe the R5 series is optimised for Nature and the R6 more for studio work in general.

Quack said:

There is only one reliable source and that is personal experience. Anyone can start a website. Anyone can be a blogger. Expertise is not a requirement. Not being biased or having an agenda is not a requirement. Even with the best intentions, lenses vary. Experience varies. Needs vary. Clicks, followers, subscribers are usually the goal.

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I fully share your opinion, basing one's choice of lenses on pictures of charts, MTFs at full aperture only, or reviews by self-declared experts is always a risk.
Renting and testing before buying, whether from friends or a store, is a much more reliable practice. Or simply buying with the possibility of returning the lens to the seller if dissatisfied.

Beautiful colours in a dark background. Nicely done, dpc.

Bob Howland said:

That depends on how much Canon wants to charge for it. The 21MP Canon 5d2 made the 21MP 1ds3 virtually unsellable. The 24MP Nikon D3X was replaced after 4 years by the D800, with 50% more pixels, a less rugged body and a 60% price reduction. People who want lots of pixels don't seem willing to pay for extreme ruggedness

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These day's Canon have really mapped their customer's shooting requiremens. Professional photographers is a very wide category of shooters. Sports and press photographers have very different requirements to say landscape, wildlife or even wedding photographers. Camera bdoies sales also are not indicative of the buying populace, not eveyone who has a R1 sells their frames for a living.
Sports and wildlife photographers both need cameras with speed, ergononics, top AF and buffer speed / size. Other features like top resolution at lower in their priorites than say a landscape or bird photographer would want.
Cameras like the 5Dii and the 1Ds3 were at the cutting edge of camera developement and the 5Dii was a far later camera, both revolutionary at lauch and state of the art. But a 1Ds3 was looking a little long in the tooth against the 5Dii, except for AF, battery life, ergonomics and buffer. These days, the tech is pretty common to any manufacturers and across the various models in a brand. The AF in a R10 is shockingly more capable that that of the 5Dmk4 for example.
These days we have so many options and choices both lens wise and camera. My R6ii / R5 combo are way more capable than any cameras I've owned previously. That said, I am considering flipping my R5 for a R6iii, because of the superior WB/Colour science in the R6 range. I love the camera but the Af is a little pedestrian and I'm finding the R5's files need more work in PP due to the colour choices of the camera.

I guess the R7i was designed during a shrinking market to replace two product lines, the 7D and the 90D and the result was something that was too pro for enthusiasts (for ex. dual card slots) and not enough pro for pros (no weather sealing). Now that the market has recovered somewhat, it seems the R7ii is going back where it was supposed to be. If the R10ii becomes an enthusiast-only version of R7 (like the 90D), the question is whether the IBIS will be considered a pro feature or not. Sony has had an IBIS-equipped enthusiast camera for 10 years now (from A6500 onward) roughly in the price range where the R7i is now and the R7ii won't be, so hopefully Canon will make one as well.

But I'm not sure if waiting for the R10ii makes sense if the R7i can be bought now for 1000 EUR? Would it be cheaper, or have more features? A newer and faster sensor - probably not. How likely is it to get the LP-E6 battery? Newer software, probably - but better than the R7i? Most of its technology will be recycled from previous models, and not from the high end ones either.