Canon Gets 300mm Creative

Given the compact appearance of this lens, could this be a diffractive optics lens? Lens length from front element to rear filter looks to be about 250 mm, allowing for a front element of 112 mm and my use of dial calipers to approximate length (questionable, perhaps). And notice the ragged elements drawn in note GP. DO indicators? Nikon has been doing well it seems with its diffractive optics telephotos. Maybe Canon, the pioneer, is wanting to show folks just how to do it.
 
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Given the compact appearance of this lens, could this be a diffractive optics lens? Lens length from front element to rear filter looks to be about 250 mm, allowing for a front element of 112 mm and my use of dial calipers to approximate length (questionable, perhaps). And notice the ragged elements drawn in note GP. DO indicators? Nikon has been doing well it seems with its diffractive optics telephotos. Maybe Canon, the pioneer, is wanting to show folks just how to do it.
The length is in the patent. 296mm, subtract 20mm for the flange distance and it’s 276mm from front element to lens mount.

Why a 112mm front element? 300 / 2.8 = 107mm, but it’s really 300.6 / 2.91 = 103mm.
 
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112 mm was a number floating around in my brain after a long day. Something one might see mentioned in a 100-300/2.8 spec sheet. A filter diameter, alas. Took my caliper over to my 35 year old 300/2.8 L and saw its front diameter was 110 plus mm at the rubber lip. Likely about 104 mm at the glass. Whatever, the design presented in the patent appears to me to have the glass remarkably compressed to allow for the converter elements. And that GP notation might well mean something special. Diffractive optics, blue goo, I am only guessing. Something to do late after a long day.
 
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Given the compact appearance of this lens, could this be a diffractive optics lens? Lens length from front element to rear filter looks to be about 250 mm, allowing for a front element of 112 mm and my use of dial calipers to approximate length (questionable, perhaps). And notice the ragged elements drawn in note GP. DO indicators? Nikon has been doing well it seems with its diffractive optics telephotos. Maybe Canon, the pioneer, is wanting to show folks just how to do it.

The Canon ef 300mm F2.8 II is 248mm + 44mm for focal plane or 292mm, this patent application is around the same as that, and even a few mm's longer at 297mm.

so it's the same sizing as the EF version.

Gp just indicates a positive lens, no special elements involved.

A DO'ed 300mm would be ~170-180mm if even possible, going by the same size reduction of the 400mm
 
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In 1981, Nikon made a few 300mm F2.0 lenses. Manual focus of course. I have seen pictures of these beasts, I think weighing in at over 15 pounds.
Nikon made about 440 of them, based on known serial numbers. I've seen perhaps 10 in person, one was brand new in its box. They came with a special 1.4x TC that was specific to that lens. Very cool.

Canon made a very small number of EF 300/1.8L lenses as well, but AFAIK they were only sold to horse tracks in Japan. There are photos online but I've never seen one in person.
 
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Nikon made about 440 of them, based on known serial numbers. I've seen perhaps 10 in person, one was brand new in its box. They came with a special 1.4x TC that was specific to that lens. Very cool.

Canon made a very small number of EF 300/1.8L lenses as well, but AFAIK they were only sold to horse tracks in Japan. There are photos online but I've never seen one in person.

i personally think the nikkor 7.5mm is the coolest lens ever.

but i digress.
 
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Interestingly, Sigma just filed a patent for a 300mm f2.8 too. Obviously not for RF mount, probably just L and Sony E (just like the 500mm f5.6 and 200mm f2.0).

A 300mm f2.8 with a 1.4x TC would be amazing for airshows. Good wildlife lens with the R7 II, as long as the R7 II meets our lofty expectations.
 
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A 300mm f/2.0 with 1.4x and 2x builtin extenders would be even nicer:
420mm f/2.8 and 600mm f/4 at the flick of a switch

I keep suggesting this and keep hoping Canon's listening.

Also a 200mm f/1.4 with 1.4x and 2x builtin
280mm f/2.0 and 400mm f/2.8
The sweet spot for integrated teleconverters is the 400mm f2.8. With a 1.4 it's close to a 600/f4 and with a 2x it's a 800/f5.6. You get a small lens package, that is light and easly to lug about (compared with the 600/4) and the 400/2.8 has a much closer MFD which some times helps. Also the brighter optics help if you can move closer to your subject.
Where the 600/f4 kicks it's butt is when you put a 2x on the 600/4 and get a 1200mm f8 (which is well beyond the reach of a 400/2.8) and with a 1.4x to get a similar 800/f5.6 but with less stressed optics, AF and IS.
The problem with 400-600mm zoom designs is that you basically have a 600mm f4 that can go wider, it's not a 400/2.8 that can go longer. So you get the size and heft of the 600mm f4 and not the benefits that a 400/2.8 has. What would be cool is a 400mm f2.8 with an integrated 1.5x TC for a 600mm. The you could pop another 1.4x TC on for more reach and still ahve a small(ish) and more portable rig.
 
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The length is in the patent. 296mm, subtract 20mm for the flange distance and it’s 276mm from front element to lens mount.

Why a 112mm front element? 300 / 2.8 = 107mm, but it’s really 300.6 / 2.91 = 103mm.
I clearly understand, for example, a single element 300mm f/2 lens has a diameter of 150mm, by definition.

I do not understand how this calculation for front element diameter applies to a multi-element lens group. Can someone explain it to me? I have a gut feeling the focal length not being measured from the front element to the image plane factors into this.

On a related note, I do not understand what is happening here: On my EF 100mm f/2.8 macro lens (both L and non-L versions), as I focus from infinity to 1:1 magnification, the light meter indicates exactly 1/4 the transmission at 1:1 relative to infinity. Does this mean 200mm f/5.6 effective at 1:1?
 
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I still have yet to see a soul use an extender out in the field. In my opinion they shouldn't dictate design too much. If it's a neutral addition then fine. But with so many great long range zooms for birders, I just don't see extenders be critical in the era. And yes I'm aware that just because I don't use something, doesn't mean others don't, but I do think photography is ever changing and I just don't see extenders as critical anymore.
 
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I clearly understand, for example, a single element 300mm f/2 lens has a diameter of 150mm, by definition.

I do not understand how this calculation for front element diameter applies to a multi-element lens group. Can someone explain it to me? I have a gut feeling the focal length not being measured from the front element to the image plane factors into this.
Focal length is never measured from the front element to the image plane, but rather it's the distance from the nodal point (optical center of the lens) to the image plane, with the lens focused at infinity. As @GMCPhotographics pointed out in another thread, the defining feature of a telephoto lens design is that the lens is physically shorter than the focal length, i.e., the nodal point of the lens is in front of the front element, beyond the lens itself.

Entrance pupil diameter is focal length / f-number. The entrance pupil is the optical representation of the physical aperture (iris diaphragm). The front element must be at least as large as the entrance pupil to fill the wide open aperture with light. With telephoto lens designs, the entrance pupil is located at (or just behind) the front element. That's why we typically approximate the front element diameter of telephoto and supertelephoto lenses as focal length / f-number.

For other lens designs, that approximation doesn't hold. For example (because it's the lens on the camera sitting next to me), the RF 20/1.4 has an entrance pupil diameter of 14.3 mm, but the front element of the lens a bit over 44 mm in diameter, 3 times larger than it 'needs' to be.

On a related note, I do not understand what is happening here: On my EF 100mm f/2.8 macro lens (both L and non-L versions), as I focus from infinity to 1:1 magnification, the light meter indicates exactly 1/4 the transmission at 1:1 relative to infinity. Does this mean 200mm f/5.6 effective at 1:1?
The effective focal length is actually getting shorter due to focus breathing, the EF 100/2.8L Macro at 1:1 frames like a lens of ~68mm. Focal length doesn't really factor into exposure, that's the point of using f-numbers (for example, a 400/2.8 is letting in a lot more light than a 100/2.8 because it has a much larger entrance pupil, but with both lenses set to f/2.8 the exposure will be the same).

At high magnifications, the effective f-number is f-number x (magnification + 1), so at 1:1 your wide open f/2.8 lens is effectively f/5.6 [2.8 x (1 + 1)].

My MP-E 65 at 5x and f/11 (a reasonable compromise between DoF and diffraction) is effectively f/66 [11 x (5 + 1)] and that is dark. That's why I typically use the MT-24EX Twin Lite with it, even in bright daylight.
 
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I clearly understand, for example, a single element 300mm f/2 lens has a diameter of 150mm, by definition.

I do not understand how this calculation for front element diameter applies to a multi-element lens group. Can someone explain it to me? I have a gut feeling the focal length not being measured from the front element to the image plane factors into this.
A lens' entrance pupal must always be at least as large as "focal length / aperture".

Effectively you cannot have a front element that is smaller than the entrance pupal, so a 300/2 lens will always have a front element that is at least 150mm in diameter. Typically for large super tele primes like a 300/2 the front element will be pretty much exactly the minimum required size.

If front filter elements are required, the filter size will be rounded up to the next common size.

When it comes to wide angle lenses the front element is often much larger than "required" (lens design reasons), but it cannot be smaller.

If you come across a lens where the front element size isn't big enough for the claimed lens specs it means the manufacturer is doing some "optimistic rounding" of the focal length and/or maximum aperture.
 
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