Canon officially announces the Canon EOS R system

[MayaTlab]

Any ideas when the Pro version specs will be announced ?
Thanks

No idea but my little finger tells me that people hoping for an A9 competitor for the 2019 Photokina will be sorely disappointed. For that to happen Canon would need to introduce in one go, in a FF sensor, a bucketload of tech that took Sony several years of gradual improvements, most frequently starting with smaller sensors, to introduce. Highly doubtful in that time frame.

 

[BeenThere]

I think it's logical to expect Canon to roll out an EOS R with 50mp filterless sensor and a Fast action version functionally similar to 1Dx II before the Tokyo 2020 kicks in.

I hope they also roll out a mirrorless successor to 7D II.

I think you are optimistic on the release timeframes, but yes, those models are coming.

 

[BeenThere]

You're using "oversampled" as a negative. It very clearly and visibly was a positive in the videos I looked at on YouTube. Which is contrary to what you claimed earlier. The A7 III footage was sharp and detailed.

FF 4k is also positive in terms of DoF (obvious) and a huge positive for high ISO video. Now throw in 1080p/120.

There are things to like in the EOS R. Heck, despite higher specs in the Nikon Z7 I think the R is fundamentally the better body. Nikon blew it on some key points. But the R's video specs simply fall short.

Video will always be a secondary and suboptimal function on a primarily stills camera. Stills will always be suboptimal on a primarily video camera. If you need pro quality output for both, then get both types of cameras. A Swiss Army knife is going to have some compromises.

 

[Durf]

I think the EFS 10-18 is a fantastic lens for the .price and it's super light. It's a fraction of the price of the 16-35, and takes beautiful photos. It's one of my favorite EFS lenses for 80D.

I think the EOS R will be a great seller for Canon, simply because it's different. There are a lot of Canon enthusaiasts who would like to spend some money on something that isn't just another iteration of their xxD and xD collection with a bunch of spec bumps. I mean, even though I had my issues with the Sony A7R3, I certainly had a lot of fun playing with it, and mostly because it was so different.

I think this EOS R is quite impressive, I'll be curious to see some in depth reviews on it, especially Dustin Abbott's take on it and his view on some of these RF lenses. Personally I'll wait a few years before I'll even consider buying a FF Mirrorless. I'm content and thoroughly enjoying using the gear I currently have and know I'm good for a few years with it unless I break something. I'll be more interested in a 7D3 if it has a flip screen for a 80D replacement in a few years if anything..... The 90D may be a viable option too (if they are making one?)

As far as I can see these RF lenses are VERY expensive, so I image most will be purchasing this camera as a body only w/adapter and will be using their current Canon lenses or perhaps getting the body with the RF 35mm which is only around 500.00. Geeze, the RF 24-105mm f/4 kit lens is 1100.00 bucks! It would have to be very sharp for me to justify paying that much for it!
$3500.00 for a EOS R/24-105mm lens/adapter/ is a little steep for me for an entry level FF Mirrorless Package.....

I sometimes wonder how people can afford to upgrade camera bodies or completely switch systems every 12 months or so!

I also believe this EOS R may be available around Christmas with a little price break with a couple of retailers. Those interested may want to be a little patient right now and wait until then to see if they may save a few hundred bucks on it.....

Personally if I had 2 or 3 grand stashed for a FF Mirrorless purchase from Canon I'd keep saving and wait for their next version up, I'm sure it will be a monster that'll likely blow away this EOS R, (but will probably cost near 4 grand).

 

[Andrew Davies Photography]

Disappointed personally, as a wedding tog would love to move to mirrorless but one card slot is a no go for me and definitely not sd ( only cards that have ever failed on me have been SD ) . Will wait and see when they bring in a higher spec model.

Wedding Photographer North East & Yorkshire Northumberland & Wedding Photographer Cumbria

 

[WillT]

I am going to give the Sony a try if it works out I will go that direction. The glass looks nice, but if I have to invest in a new mount I am not going to wait as Canon continues to drag their feet with the bodies.

 

[Architect1776]

Hi,
4K is auto cropped to "Super 35mm-like resolution"... may be to match the look and feel of their cinema camera output??

Have a nice day.

If you want serious video then get the Canon C700.
This is a still camera with some video features for boring home movies that all but you find painfully boring.
Those truly interested in video productions have no interest in these hybrid cameras.
This is a still camera with video capabilities.
I get so bored with the drivel from those who complain about still camera video. Same with ibis as optical is far superior and way more so with WA lenses.

 

[GadgetDave]

When I was thinking about the "additive" vs "subtractive" approach, I specifically thought about cell phones, or more specifically, the iPhone. Whenever Apple introduces a new iPhone, they don't attempt to restrict a key feature from the phone - rather they go all out and try to cram as much as they can into each successive iteration of the phone. Same goes with Apple Watch and any other Apple product for that matter.

Same is true with Nikon and Sony. Sony for sure is using an additive approach, cramming as much tech as they can into their cameras - mostly due to the fact that they were the underdog and had to prove themselves, but even now they continue to put as many features as they can. With Nikon I think its the same thing to be honest - with the D800 they arguably took a huge risk putting a huge MP sensor into a camera like that while putting a lower MP sensor into their flagship D4. But they still went ahead with it and were able to successfully separate the two lines. While the Nikon Z certainly is missing features, I feel it is more due to Nikon's lack of R&D money vs Sony and Canon and them having to focus on specific features versus others.

With Canon, I just feel that there are outright obvious examples where features have been subtracted for no reason. Not having C-log in the 1DX Mark II is the perfect example. How do you justify putting C-log into the 5D Mark IV and now the EOS R - both which have crop and rolling shutter, but you don't put it in the 1DX Mark II which has less crop and less of a rolling shutter problem? Just makes no sense to me.

Apple may be an ok comparison for a few reasons. If you look, most of the things they "add" have been in competitors' products for years (See Samsung, Motorola, LG). Certainly they do have a few things that they have led the way on, or tried to improve on - but someone help us if Canon is ever as closed as Apple is. That being said (and I am NOT an Apple fanboy, the opposite in fact), I think that they sometimes wait and do things better than their competitors by learning what works and perfecting something. Maybe that's the Canon model. They're just slow at it.

 

[Deleted member 380306]

That's a beast of a camera once the 50mm lens is attach, a smaller form factor all round would have been preferred and some onboard IBIS would have made me jump NOW, will hold off and see how this pans out once people start using it and we get to read their thoughts, see their images plus find out how this camera performs in the field ref DR, low light, focusing etc etc...

Image found here: https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/9/5/17822556/canon-eos-r-camera-hands-on-preview-photos

 

[MickDK]

1) Because IBIS was an afterthought, the throat diameter is tight for the additional space needed to accommodate the movement of the sensor.

2) Because of the greater incident angle that a small flange distance requires, wide angle lenses are difficult to design.

The article you linked did not debunk any of the above.

I mention Sony because many here have pointed that they are moving to Sony... just a precaution to jump in with your eyes open.

Don't worry. I never decide lightly on any potential costly decision - re. (1) this doesn't seem to be a major limitation given Sony claim 5.5 stop using IBIS - and re. (2) they do have a 12-24mm F4 zoom and 3. parties offer 10mm (though F5.6). So maybe difficult but not impossible it seems.

Anyway - thanks for your thoughts!

 

[amorse]

If you want serious video then get the Canon C700.
This is a still camera with some video features for boring home movies that all but you find painfully boring.
Those truly interested in video productions have no interest in these hybrid cameras.
This is a still camera with video capabilities.
I get so bored with the drivel from those who complain about still camera video. Same with ibis as optical is far superior and way more so with WA lenses.

Like you, I really don't care for ILC video - just not my thing, and not likely the best tool for the job. I'd be perfectly happy if my camera didn't even have video (not that I'm advocating for that product).

With that said though, I think there is a notable (and growing) subset of users who do want video in that form factor because it is (relatively) compact, and can generate high-quality and shallow depth of field video, and can double as a stills camera. Youtube vloggers seem to really like the ILC form factor for those reasons, and expect to hand hold the camera facing themselves with the ability to change lenses for creative footage. Obviously that is currently a small subset of the market, but recently I read an article which suggested that in some places "Youtube vlogger" is now one of the most desired career paths for children. If that's going to be a growing market segment in the future, it would be foolish to ignore it.

Further, some of today's bigger vloggers have literally millions of people watching their videos, which are often being shot on ILCs really designed for stills. Casey Neistat has over 10 million subscribers, and while it isn't what I'd call a photography vlog, he does review gear and spreads his opinion to millions of people. There are plenty of vloggers just like him. If Vloggers are judging cameras based on suitability for vlogging and then spreading that opinion to millions of people (many of whom hoping to follow in these vloggers' footsteps), that can have an impact on consumer buying choices in time.

Again, I'm not a video person so it makes no difference to me, but ignoring the video crowd could (in the long term) have negative implications when the reviewers with millions of followers are video people. Traditional video cameras just don't fit the need or the financial capability of many users. I suspect the demands for video capability in ILCs will only get louder, despite the fact that other purposefully designed tools are available.

 

[bokehmon22]

Err, in case the winking smiley didn't make it clear, I was trying to point out that expecting Canon to sell a camera with a sensor from a $3100 camera in a $1600 camera is not realistic. Prices on sensors come down but not that much that quickly.

My bad. I agree with you then

 

[Mikehit]

Again, I'm not a video person so it makes no difference to me, but ignoring the video crowd could (in the long term) have negative implications when the reviewers with millions of followers are video people. Traditional video cameras just don't fit the need or the financial capability of many users. I suspect the demands for video capability in ILCs will only get louder, despite the fact that other purposefully designed tools are available.

Isn't that a bit over-dramatic? The question is not whether Canon are ignoring the video crowd, because they have a perfectly acceptable video function. The question really is when they need to have available full-frame 4K and 1080p 120pfs and blah...blah...blah..

This is so reminiscent of the mirrorless camera discussions over the last 5 years with people predicting doom and gloom because Canon did not have FF mirrorless and DID NOT DO IT RIGHT NOW! And over the last 5 years, how much have Canon lost by not having FF mirrorless? Precisely zip worth talking about. Even the M50 and 6Dii, cameras panned for the spec sheet have got some pretty impressive reviews by those who use them.

The fact is not whether it will be done but when. And every step Canon has made seems to have been judged pretty well - and yet people still talk as if Canon do not know what they are doing..

 

[Durf]

Isn't that a bit over-dramatic? The question is not whether Canon are ignoring the video crowd, because they have a perfectly acceptable video function. The question really is when they need to have available full-frame 4K and 1080p 120pfs and blah...blah...blah..

This is so reminiscent of the mirrorless camera discussions over the last 5 years with people predicting doom and gloom because Canon did not have FF mirrorless and DID NOT DO IT RIGHT NOW! And over the last 5 years, how much have Canon lost by not having FF mirrorless? Precisely zip worth talking about. Even the M50 and 6Dii, cameras panned for the spec sheet have got some pretty impressive reviews by those who use them.

The fact is not whether it will be done but when. And every step Canon has made seems to have been judged pretty well - and yet people still talk as if Canon do not know what they are doing..

Drama is the theme of the times we are in for sure!

With all the specs on this camera I'm sure it'll will work just fine for video for 95% of the folks out there....sheesh, if you want a high end video production rig one just needs to go and buy one, this is a stills camera with "better than average" consumer grade video capabilities.

Many just hunt and thrive on things to complain about!

I do all my Youtube video's with a 2015 T6i using a 10-18mm STM lens, the IQ looks just fine to me......

 

[amorse]

Isn't that a bit over-dramatic? The question is not whether Canon are ignoring the video crowd, because they have a perfectly acceptable video function. The question really is when they need to have available full-frame 4K and 1080p 120pfs and blah...blah...blah..

This is so reminiscent of the mirrorless camera discussions over the last 5 years with people predicting doom and gloom because Canon did not have FF mirrorless and DID NOT DO IT RIGHT NOW! And over the last 5 years, how much have Canon lost by not having FF mirrorless? Precisely zip worth talking about. Even the M50 and 6Dii, cameras panned for the spec sheet have got some pretty impressive reviews by those who use them.

The fact is not whether it will be done but when. And every step Canon has made seems to have been judged pretty well - and yet people still talk as if Canon do not know what they are doing..

I don't think it is over dramatic in the context of the comment I was replying to, and I think my comment is getting bit misrepresented here - I'm not suggesting that Canon is failing at video. Far from it. Canon will be, and has been, fine without packing every video feature into their ILCs.

The comment I was replying to made the suggestion that "Those truly interested in video productions have no interest in these hybrid cameras" and recommended that anyone who really wants video should get a C700 and be done with it. That perspective is, I think, shortsighted considering the demand for video in ILCs, and the fact that the people making recommendations (those who are shaping opinions) are biased on the need for video as it's what they're using to make their living. A C700 is not a suitable replacement for those who want a full frame video with interchangeable lenses in a relatively small package. Yes, lots of people are nitpicking over the finer details of what is "good enough" for video, but I'm not at all commenting on whether or not Canon's implementation is sufficient.

My only point here is that consideration must be given to video and it shouldn't be written off for ILCs (as I felt was suggested by the post I was replying to), not the sky is falling and Canon are leaving people out in the cold.

 

[Durf]

My only point here is that consideration must be given to video and it shouldn't be written off for ILCs (as I felt was suggested by the post I was replying to), not the sky is falling and Canon are leaving people out in the cold.

I didn't mean to sound like I was taking a swipe at ya....

When I'm out with my gear I'm 99% a stills photographer; but, on occasions I am totally glad my cameras are video capable as I do enjoy capturing certain things/memories in a video.

I'm one of those that are totally satisfied with a good 1080p HD video and don't quite understand the 4k frenzie. Me not having 4k doesn't make me feel like the world is ending or left out in any way shape or form......

 

[Mikehit]

I don't think it is over dramatic in the context of the comment I was replying to, and I think my comment is getting bit misrepresented here - I'm not suggesting that Canon is failing at video. Far from it. Canon will be, and has been, fine without packing every video feature into their ILCs.

The comment I was replying to made the suggestion that "Those truly interested in video productions have no interest in these hybrid cameras" and recommended that anyone who really wants video should get a C700 and be done with it. That perspective is, I think, shortsighted considering the demand for video in ILCs, and the fact that the people making recommendations (those who are shaping opinions) are biased on the need for video as it's what they're using to make their living. A C700 is not a suitable replacement for those who want a full frame video with interchangeable lenses in a relatively small package. Yes, lots of people are nitpicking over the finer details of what is "good enough" for video, but I'm not at all commenting on whether or not Canon's implementation is sufficient.

My only point here is that consideration must be given to video and it shouldn't be written off for ILCs (as I felt was suggested by the post I was replying to), not the sky is falling and Canon are leaving people out in the cold.

That's a fair summation. I don't think Canon has any intention of abandoning the video crowd in the EOS lines but they will include functionality that they think is robust and meets the majority need.
In the video of the launch, it was interesting that Canon made the comment to the effect of 'Our intention was never to be first but to do it when we were happy it was right'. They are building their video capabilities slowly but surely in a way that when the customer turns on [Function X] then Function X is what they will get with minimal risk of it crapping out.
I think people are confusing 'we do not have the technology yet' with 'we don't care about video and want to protect our other lines'.

 

[amorse]

I didn't mean to sound like I was taking a swipe at ya....

When I'm out with my gear I'm 99% a stills photographer; but, on occasions I am totally glad my cameras are video capable as I do enjoy capturing certain things/memories in a video.

I'm one of those that are totally satisfied with a good 1080p HD video and don't quite understand the 4k frenzie. Me not having 4k doesn't make me feel like the world is ending or left out in any way shape or form......

No offence taken at all! The tone in the forum can get a bit hostile sometimes (on both sides of the conversation), so things seem to escalate quickly. I agree on 1080p - frankly, I don't want to stream 4K; it cripples my home internet any time I watch it. I understand why some want it, but it isn't the be all and end all of video.

I do think some of this frenzy is being driven by vloggers: making inflammatory/controversial comments draws people to their videos and generates ad revenue. Further, the reach of these people is growing rapidly - Peter McKinnon got to 2 million subscribers in just over a year (and is a Canon Vlogger no less!). Considering that they review gear based on their needs, and their needs are video, those sort of comments driving the frenzy will likely increase regardless of what the market actually demands. I think that's one of the reasons we see so many comments on lack of specific features, but see continued market dominance by Canon. Canon will respond to what sells, but regardless, the commentary will get louder as the reach of video people extend.

 

[Durf]

No offence taken at all! The tone in the forum can get a bit hostile sometimes (on both sides of the conversation), so things seem to escalate quickly. I agree on 1080p - frankly, I don't want to stream 4K; it cripples my home internet any time I watch it. I understand why some want it, but it isn't the be all and end all of video.

I do think some of this frenzy is being driven by vloggers: making inflammatory/controversial comments draws people to their videos and generates ad revenue. Further, the reach of these people is growing rapidly - Peter McKinnon got to 2 million subscribers in just over a year (and is a Canon Vlogger no less!). Considering that they review gear based on their needs, and their needs are video, those sort of comments driving the frenzy will likely increase regardless of what the market actually demands. I think that's one of the reasons we see so many comments on lack of specific features, but see continued market dominance by Canon. Canon will respond to what sells, but regardless, the commentary will get louder as the reach of video people extend.

I suspect that the majority of those that buy cameras do not purchase them depending on who's screaming the loudest on Youtube! lol

I often read comments in purchase reviews and also rely on hands on reviews like Dustin Abbott's. (or just simply use common sense)

I bought the 6D2 a month or so after it was released regardless of all the negative Youtube and forum screaming about it and am 110% satisfied with my purchase. I actually had the money for the 5D4 but got the 6D2 instead simply because of the flip screen. I love the camera and use it almost daily.

I feel this EOS R camera is another sleeper and versitile camera but the lens pricing scares me off. If I was seriously considering buying it, it would be body only and I'd just get an adapter and use my current lenses.

The EOS R will likely soon be considered the best FF Vlogging camera, especially for the Youtube. That forward facing screen will likely be the best selling point on this camera IMO. many will scoop it up for that reason only.....

 

[amorse]

That's a fair summation. I don't think Canon has any intention of abandoning the video crowd in the EOS lines but they will include functionality that they think is robust and meets the majority need.
In the video of the launch, it was interesting that Canon made the comment to the effect of 'Our intention was never to be first but to do it when we were happy it was right'. They are building their video capabilities slowly but surely in a way that when the customer turns on [Function X] then Function X is what they will get with minimal risk of it crapping out.
I think people are confusing 'we do not have the technology yet' with 'we don't care about video and want to protect our other lines'.

Absolutely agreed, and I'll go one step further: The EOS R will become one of the most popular vlogging cameras on the market despite it's shortcomings. It is the only full frame camera with a front facing screen and 4K. Yes, it's missing some features that the vlogging community seem to want, but it is the only full frame mirrorless camera that will let you record yourself while seeing your composition without additional gear - the only other camera is the 6D II. So really, vloggers who want a very shallow depth of field can choose between seeing yourself in the composition during filming, or 120 fps 1080p and full sensor 4K. If you ask a vlogger which they think will make a bigger difference to their filming, I'd probably bet a lot will pick the reversible screen - especially if they ever film away from a controlled environment hand-held. With that said, Panasonic will release a mirrorless full frame camera and likely have the flipping screen too, but we'll see what happens.