Canon announces development of the EOS R5 full-frame mirrorless camera

[Quarkcharmed]

And iso is changed with the front main dial while pressing the set button with my thumb. I can change any of it blindly with the camera to my eye

Same here; it's actually more convenient than having an ISO button/dial somewhere else. This way you use the thumb to control the exposure dial, index or middle finger to control the aperture, and both fingers for ISO. No need to move your hand anywhere else to change ISO.

 

[slclick]

Time is a luxury I have.

I have owned three over the years and copy to copy variance is not really a thing for this lens like an original 24-105L or an original 100-400, ugh those were all over the place.

 

[dlee13]

There’s too many pages to be able to read every single post, but the main thing I’m interested to learn is about the 20fps.

I see many people on other sites trying to claim the R5 won’t be able to do the 20fps with continuous AF/Exposure. I’ve read that the M6 II and 1DX3 are able to do this so I think it’s same to assume the R5 can too?

I hope these questions can be answered at WPPI!

 

[joestopper]

Where, exactly, are the T-stops going up in proportion to the magnification as these constant aperture zoom lenses increase magnification between the aperture diaphragm and the front of the lens?

View attachment 188727

I have from the very beginning of the thread argued for a *prime* lens and given reasons why the front lens element should be at least the size of the aperture. Since then I am reading reply arguments for various *zoom* lenses ...

 

[joestopper]

It is possible for an entrance pupil to be larger than the front element, but not by very much with telephoto lenses.

Wide aperture lenses that demonstrate "cat's eye" bokeh do so because the entrance pupil is larger than the front element diameter when the aperture is wide open, and thus off axis light is blocked from being able to "see" the entire entrance pupil.

View attachment 188716

So, how much bigger (% of diameter) is it?

 

[slclick]

There’s too many pages to be able to read every single post, but the main thing I’m interested to learn is about the 20fps.

I see many people on other sites trying to claim the R5 won’t be able to do the 20fps with continuous AF/Exposure. I’ve read that the M6 II and 1DX3 are able to do this so I think it’s same to assume the R5 can too?

I hope these questions can be answered at WPPI!

Jumping in at page 58... you missed a few good tidbits and a whole lot of crazy. Yes, Vegas at the end of the month should be able to shine more light on this bad billy.

 

[Laslen]

I see many people on other sites trying to claim the R5 won’t be able to do the 20fps with continuous AF/Exposure. I’ve read that the M6 II and 1DX3 are able to do this so I think it’s same to assume the R5 can too?

It is not the same. Neither the M6 Mark II nor the 1DX3 are 45MP. The M6 Mark II is 33MP but it is only capable of 14fps.

It's possible the 20fps continuous is in APS-C mode, but literally everything is speculation now. Nobody knows the answer to any of these questions until Canon confirms it.

 

[slclick]

I know I cannot speak for everyone, who knows, maybe no one, but it seems this is a Stills slam dunk with a lot of unknowns about Video.

I like being on the 'Feeling Pretty Sure About This' side of things. Can't wait.

 

[tron]

More buttons and a back wheel are nice. Still missing a few buttons though! What is with Canon and less buttons on mirrorless?

 

[joestopper]

Where, exactly, are the T-stops going up in proportion to the magnification as these constant aperture zoom lenses increase magnification between the aperture diaphragm and the front of the lens?

View attachment 188727

I have never said nor implied this: "... T-stops going up in proportion to the magnification ..."
A zoom with a constant f-stop number: What does that mean for the aperture diameter? (example of 70-200 f/2.8)
- @ 200mm --> aperture diameter of 71mm
- @ 70mm --> aperture diameter of 25mm
So, while the front lens element is always >= aperture diameter, there is no decrease of t-stop value to expect!
Your graph proofs what I was stating.

 

[Richard CR]

There’s too many pages to be able to read every single post, but the main thing I’m interested to learn is about the 20fps.

I see many people on other sites trying to claim the R5 won’t be able to do the 20fps with continuous AF/Exposure. I’ve read that the M6 II and 1DX3 are able to do this so I think it’s same to assume the R5 can too?

I hope these questions can be answered at WPPI!

if it's a July release, i doubt WPPI will be able to tell us much other than just have units under display.

There's CP+ , PhotographyShow, NAB, PhotoKina all lined up before this baby gets released. If this was imminent release, then sure, they would have live models that you could play with that show.


I can't see that happening this far away from release.

yes the hardware is usually finished well before now, but usually the firmware isn't done yet.

If I was looking at a crystal ball. this is what I think we'll see at the shows;

- WPPI - units under display. Maybe touch / hold non functioning units.
- NAB - 8K on display.
- PhotoKina - fully operational models, CFE cards locked up though

on the 20fps .. it's REALLY a lot of data to move.

I wouldn't be surprised to see AF/AE locked for 20 fps. it's not a question of crippling, it's a case of it being 2.25x the data that the 1DX Mark II is processing at 20 fps.

we're talking somewhere in the range of 1.8 Gigapixels / second - just to put this into perspective, and far more than that needed to be processed.

however - conversely - it sounds from the 1DX Mark III whitepaper that DIGIC X has ASICS in it specifically for DPAF AF. Which is a first.

So while it MAY happen, i'm leaning to AF/AE locked on all the extreme performance options in the R5;
- 20 fps
- 8K30p
- 4K120p
That way i'll be pleasantly surprised if they do have DPAF / AF/AE.

Sony, et all fanboys will call this "crippling" i'm sure. however, it's doing things that no other ILC can do at the moment - not sure how you'd call that crippling.

 

[joestopper]

Will EF image stabilization interact with R series IBIS? Of course it will.

Well, while it is very likely that it will, the question is how *well* it will perform.
The RF mount allows a far higher bandwith of data to exchange between lens and body than the EF mount does. There is a real-time control algorithim that constantly adjusts IBIS (body) and IS (lens). The faster the mutual adjustments, the better the image is stabilized. That is why an EF lens could lack i.e. data transfer might not be high enough to adjust as fast as an RF lens would allow. My guess is that an EF lens therefore wont give you the rumored combined 8 stops of stabilization.

 

[slclick]

Well, while it is very likely that it will, the question is how *well* it will perform.
The RF mount allows a far higher bandwith of data to exchange between lens and body than the EF mount does. There is a real-time control algorithim that constantly adjusts IBIS (body) and IS (lens). The faster the mutual adjustments, the better the image is stabilized. That is why an EF lens could lack i.e. data transfer might not be high enough to adjust as fast as an RF lens would allow.

Joe, I enjoyed reading your input and insight, good to have you here.

 

[Ozarker]

if it's a July release, i doubt WPPI will be able to tell us much other than just have units under display.

There's CP+ , PhotographyShow, NAB, PhotoKina all lined up before this baby gets released. If this was imminent release, then sure, they would have live models that you could play with that show.


I can't see that happening this far away from release.

yes the hardware is usually finished well before now, but usually the firmware isn't done yet.

If I was looking at a crystal ball. this is what I think we'll see at the shows;

- WPPI - units under display. Maybe touch / hold non functioning units.
- NAB - 8K on display.
- PhotoKina - fully operational models, CFE cards locked up though

on the 20fps .. it's REALLY a lot of data to move.

I wouldn't be surprised to see AF/AE locked for 20 fps. it's not a question of crippling, it's a case of it being 2.25x the data that the 1DX Mark II is processing at 20 fps.

we're talking somewhere in the range of 1.8 Gigapixels / second - just to put this into perspective, and far more than that needed to be processed.

however - conversely - it sounds from the 1DX Mark III whitepaper that DIGIC X has ASICS in it specifically for DPAF AF. Which is a first.

So while it MAY happen, i'm leaning to AF/AE locked on all the extreme performance options in the R5;
- 20 fps
- 8K30p
- 4K120p
That way i'll be pleasantly surprised if they do have DPAF / AF/AE.

Sony, et all fanboys will call this "crippling" i'm sure. however, it's doing things that no other ILC can do at the moment - not sure how you'd call that crippling.

My friend, you must keep up. Terms evolve. The new nomenclature is now "cripple hammer" a la James Caan and Kathy Bates in the movie "Misery".

 

[Ozarker]

Well, while it is very likely that it will, the question is how *well* it will perform.
The RF mount allows a far higher bandwith of data to exchange between lens and body than the EF mount does. There is a real-time control algorithim that constantly adjusts IBIS (body) and IS (lens). The faster the mutual adjustments, the better the image is stabilized. That is why an EF lens could lack i.e. data transfer might not be high enough to adjust as fast as an RF lens would allow.

Of course you are right. The problem is some people wondering whether it supports EF image stabilization at all. In my opinion, stabilization will be better than one or the other alone.

 

[Ozarker]

Please, everyone, visit my gofundme page.

 

[slclick]

Please, everyone, visit my gofundme page.

Isn't it funny how internet begging, a few years back something to be ashamed of is now commonplace ala online dating?

We are devolving and fast!

 

[dlee13]

if it's a July release, i doubt WPPI will be able to tell us much other than just have units under display.

There's CP+ , PhotographyShow, NAB, PhotoKina all lined up before this baby gets released. If this was imminent release, then sure, they would have live models that you could play with that show.


I can't see that happening this far away from release.

yes the hardware is usually finished well before now, but usually the firmware isn't done yet.

If I was looking at a crystal ball. this is what I think we'll see at the shows;

- WPPI - units under display. Maybe touch / hold non functioning units.
- NAB - 8K on display.
- PhotoKina - fully operational models, CFE cards locked up though

on the 20fps .. it's REALLY a lot of data to move.

I wouldn't be surprised to see AF/AE locked for 20 fps. it's not a question of crippling, it's a case of it being 2.25x the data that the 1DX Mark II is processing at 20 fps.

we're talking somewhere in the range of 1.8 Gigapixels / second - just to put this into perspective, and far more than that needed to be processed.

however - conversely - it sounds from the 1DX Mark III whitepaper that DIGIC X has ASICS in it specifically for DPAF AF. Which is a first.

So while it MAY happen, i'm leaning to AF/AE locked on all the extreme performance options in the R5;
- 20 fps
- 8K30p
- 4K120p
That way i'll be pleasantly surprised if they do have DPAF / AF/AE.

Sony, et all fanboys will call this "crippling" i'm sure. however, it's doing things that no other ILC can do at the moment - not sure how you'd call that crippling.

I’m very curious how they’ll do this too as the A9 does it at 24mp so if the Canon could potentially do this at40mp it would be something insane.

I agree that both the Nikon and Sony fanboys will try their best to criticize it, but I’m really hoping Canon do something revolutionary with this body (which it seems like they will) and put all of them in their place.

I think the processors will play a huge part in what’s possible too. Doesn’t the1DX3 have one Digic X and another Digic 8? If they use a similar design but had two Digic X instead with one powering the AF only and the other doing the rest maybe it could be feasible?

 

[slclick]

I’m very curious how they’ll do this too as the A9 does it at 24mp so if the Canon could potentially do this at40mp it would be something insane.

I agree that both the Nikon and Sony fanboys will try their best to criticize it, but I’m really hoping Canon do something revolutionary with this body (which it seems like they will) and put all of them in their place.

I think the processors will play a huge part in what’s possible too. Doesn’t the1DX3 have one Digic X and another Digic 8? If they use a similar design but had two Digic X instead with one powering the AF only and the other doing the rest maybe it could be feasible?

Is Digic X it's own thing or a new line? I've read contrary remarks about it.

 

[davo]

Video noob question. When I see a listed spec like say 4k @ 30 fps no crop, I often see wishes that they also have 24 fps. Isn't 24 fps easier to do than 30fps? Why wouldn't the slower fps always be an included option if its something so in demand?