DPReview: Review of the Canon EOS R5

[twoheadedboy]

When you start the camera into standby mode the clock begins to tick and you lose the full potential of estimated time provided by Canon and other testers before overheating. Might not get a full 20 minutes if you've been composing a shot and etc for a few minutes with the camera on standby as one would - White balance, exposing, and so on. Cool down should be about the same after a overheat shutdown no matter how you got there.

I get that theoretically this is possible. But has anyone demonstrated it? I've seen others indicate having their camera in standby mode and shooting and NOT having a reduced ability to shoot their first HQ video, with the caveat that their recovery times were worse than advertised. I'm not here to defend Canon, I'm wanting to be very specific/precise about what the issue is. I have seen enough to agree that recovery time is very poor once you hit the wall, but not (yet) that capabilities before you hit the wall are super-variable aside from the normal ambient temperature concerns that impact all cameras to some extent or another. A post above seems to provide more positive examples that standby/photos do NOT qualitatively impact initial HQ video shoot time...in other words, if I left my camera on for an hour in 80 degree sun or shot 1,000 photos before wanting to shoot my 1st 8k video, and I get 19 minutes instead of 20, then that's reasonable (in my mind). But if I shoot 10 photos and all of sudden only shoot 10 minutes instead of 20 for my 1st 8k video, that's a huge problem.

 

[twoheadedboy]

Tony compared them in his video. R6 is naturally better than Non-HQ 4k R5.

He said that (what I was responding to in the first place) but I would like to see examples is what I'm saying. I don't doubt it but I'd like to see what the difference actually is.

 

[Deleted member 384473]

I get that theoretically this is possible. But has anyone demonstrated it? I've seen others indicate having their camera in standby mode and shooting and NOT having a reduced ability to shoot their first HQ video, with the caveat that their recovery times were worse than advertised. I'm not here to defend Canon, I'm wanting to be very specific/precise about what the issue is. I have seen enough to agree that recovery time is very poor once you hit the wall, but not (yet) that capabilities before you hit the wall are super-variable aside from the normal ambient temperature concerns that impact all cameras to some extent or another. A post above seems to provide more positive examples that standby/photos do NOT qualitatively impact initial HQ video shoot time...in other words, if I left my camera on for an hour in 80 degree sun or shot 1,000 photos before wanting to shoot my 1st 8k video, and I get 19 minutes instead of 20, then that's reasonable (in my mind). But if I shoot 10 photos and all of sudden only shoot 10 minutes instead of 20 for my 1st 8k video, that's a huge problem.

Canon says so in the video I sent that your estimated time is shortened while in standby mode. To what degree? I don't know. You definitely won't be able to shoot photos for an hour then get any 8k or 4kHQ, especially while outside, at least with how the camera currently is. I'd recommend watching some more reviews from those your gut can trust. I know some might have bias against him here, but Gerald Undone is uploading his review of the R5 either today or tomorrow and I am sure he goes into detail about this very scenario.

 

[davidhfe]

You left out Z6, A73, S1...probably forgetting something else. Do they have all the modes of the R5? Nope. Do they recover faster after shooting over sampled 4k? They certainly appear to, though DPReview's testing looks better than some of the other reports on the R5/R6.

Personally, I don't consider a 24mp body to be in the same class, so I'd put all those cameras along the A7SIII, though there's a big difference between 12 and 24 mp. I admit I am assuming the S1R bins or skips and have not researched that. It's also limited to 8 bit 420 internal and external?

A 12-24mp sensor requires doing ~half the information processing as a 36-61 mp sensor, and therefore generates half the heat. I have no doubt future models will bump that up but today it's not a flat comparison if evaluating the camera as a hybrid. If you're more video focused, those cameras will probably give you better results than the R5, and 24mp is a better compromise between video and stills.

So you're left with a camera that's on the low end of 4K quality, when shooting continuously, but on par with other high MP bodies. This makes sense; lots of people avoid the Z7/A7R4 if they're video heavy, preferring more capable or cheaper bodies with less capability around stills shooting.

 

[twoheadedboy]

Canon says so in the video I sent that your estimated time is shortened while in standby mode. To what degree? I don't know. You definitely won't be able to shoot photos for an hour then get any 8k or 4kHQ, especially while outside, at least with how the camera currently is. I'd recommend watching some more reviews from those your gut can trust. I know some might have bias against him here, but Gerald Undone is uploading his review of the R5 either today or tomorrow and I am sure he goes into detail about this very scenario.

She didn't say that. I watched the video you provided. She said the temperature goes up - she did not say the shooting time of the 1st video goes down. The two COULD be, but aren't necessarily linked. It's clear "mixed use" + standby impacts recovery time after the 1st video negatively.

 

[Deleted member 384473]

She didn't say that. I watched the video you provided. She said the temperature goes up - she did not say the shooting time of the 1st video goes down. The two COULD be, but aren't necessarily linked. It's clear "mixed use" + standby impacts recovery time after the 1st video negatively.

I think we’re coming to different conclusions. I’m gonna stick with mine: You lose record time on 8K & 4KHQ the longer you’re in standby or doing anything else, including taking photos.

 

[Kit.]

I just love it when someone thinks needless nitpicking will prove something. The recovery times do not improve with airflow over the sensor. Unless the laws of thermodynamics fail inside the RF mount, it's not the sensor. And I don't need "calculations" to prove it.

You do, and that's not "nitpicking". If you want to be sure that the laws of thermodynamics are on your side, you need to do some estimations. In numbers.

A good start would be to comparing the power the recording camera consumes with the heat flow you are going to manage to sustain while blowing room temperature air onto a small area of flat surface poorly conducting heat.

What does this have to do with your original analogy, or with the statement: 'If it was the sensor overheating blowing air on it with the shutter open would have reduced recovery times."?

You seem to believe that flatness of the surface will help. It won't.

It was in reply to your belief that if the R5 shed heat more quickly you would need gloves to handle it.

And what do these cameras to do with how to shed heat more quickly on R5?

R5 is just a camera that generates more heat than them. That's it. Don't pretend to be surprised about it; you have clearly seen its specs.

 

[Jack Douglas]

On the video side: absolutely. On the stills side: my main body is a 5Ds and while the R5 sensor improves upon some aspects of IQ, overall it wouldn't make a difference in my prints. (The DR would make life easier, but not change the quality of my work because I shoot/blend two frames where needed.)

That's not a knock against the R5 on stills. From the samples I've seen they are gorgeous. They have the crisp, fine detail that's characteristic of high resolution 35mm and mid resolution MF. If you're a stills only shooter the R5 is a big upgrade from, say, a 5D3, just on sensor IQ alone. Now add IBIS, 12fps, advanced AF, etc.



I'm frustrated. I've held off on purchasing a more video capable body hoping that Canon would nail it with the R5. They've come so close. Absent the thermal issues this is an amazing camera across the board.

I don't want another brand for video. I want to be on FF Canon. So much so that if the R6 did not have the same thermal issues I would add an R6 for video despite "only" having 20mp for stills. The 1DX3 sensor is solid and it would still be a good 2nd stills camera. Canon has come so close to knocking it out of the park with these two bodies. It's painful to see them miss on something like this.

Again I'll reiterate: if you're stills only...and if there are no stills thermal issues (and there may not be, we've only got two reports so far, both could be batteries or out of spec bodies)...the R5 knocks it out of the park. Easy upgrade choice from earlier 5 series models and the R. Also from the 5Ds/sR depending on the value you place on IBIS, DR, fps, and subject tracking AF. I place value on those things, just not quite $4k at this time.

I don't hate the camera or think it's a lemon. I hate that there's one serious flaw that will lead to me adding some other brand + adapters and waiting for Canon's next release.

Or maybe I should thank Canon. Maybe I would kick myself if I bought an R5 only to see Canon release an 83-100mp R5s (R3?) early next year

Don't think you're alone in waiting and being frustrated. We all have our wishes and disappointments - for me it was how close the 1DX2 came minus what I wanted, which was more MPs but that's not what others wanted who influenced Canon. I've really enjoyed the 1DX2 but there was always the nagging, "if only I could crop just a little more without so much loss in resolution. Then I give my head a shake cause I'm only an enthusiast who is so lucky/privileged to be using such marvellous equipment. To me the R5 is indeed marvellous!

Jack

 

[twoheadedboy]

I think we’re coming to different conclusions. I’m gonna stick with mine: You lose record time on 8K & 4KHQ the longer you’re in standby or doing anything else, including taking photos.

Your conclusion isn't supported by your evidence. It is a reasonable expectation, but not one I've seen proven out i.e. demonstrated in the wild. You are overstating the proof or the conclusions one can draw from your source and inventing quotes by people to back it up.

 

[Deleted member 384473]

Your conclusion isn't supported by your evidence. It is a reasonable expectation, but not one I've seen proven out i.e. demonstrated in the wild. You are overstating the proof or the conclusions one can draw from your source and inventing quotes by people to back it up.

Bro lol I’m actually not. Like I don’t know what’s so hard to understand about what Mehdia was instructing in the ProAV TV video??

“ Even if the camera is sitting down, standby, not recording... the temperature is still increasing... If you’re going through the menus, adjusting things, playing back videos, stills, the camera’s temperature is going up... The minute you start recording you will get a record time“

Mehdia is saying the estimated record time is effected by all these things. I’ve also seen examples from “the wild.” They’re out there. This is real. You’re gonna have to deal with it now or later.

 

[davidhfe]

Can you please show me your calculations?

I actually got bored and ran some back of the envelope math. I think the coupling is fine and it's just the body hitting it's thermal capacity in the HFR/HQ modes. But, I'm not an engineer and I'm not sure the math adds anything to this conversation. Also I'm always a bit skeptical when my math confirms my priors

 

[Go Wild]

Well, you better stop being happy and absorb all the critical information presented in this thread. How can you possibly be happy! Must have extremely low expectations!!

Jack

Not quite Jack! My expectations were high and camera is being Up to it! Ohhh and it didn´t overheated yet!!

Secret is: Buy what you need and know what you buy! I don´t expect more than camera can give. I don´t live of charts or youtubers reviews. I live in the real world. And in my world (at least for now) I am really happy with this camera!!

 

[Viggo]

You know when people say “a new camera won’t make your pictures any better” yeah, the R5 craps on that statement. The shots people are sharing from the R5 here are some of the very, very best I’ve seen here on CR, and I’ve been here for, well, at least a decade

 

[bokehmon22]

Geez, not five minutes ago I complained about this, and here it is again.

45MP, 12 fps...do you suppose the ability to do that might be a consequence of developing that video feature you don't want to have to pay for?

Were it not for the 8K video feature, this wouldn't be nearly as awesome a camera for stills as it already is. Yeah, you're paying for that, with the SAME money you're paying for the phenomenal stills capability.

I don't need the top of the line video specs or 45 mpx sensor.

You don't think there is a surcharge of adding and implementing 8K to R5? I'd rather have the camera cheaper with 4k and 30 mpx like EOS R. If Canon developing such a camera, it wouldn't be as expensive as R5.

It's a great still camera but I'm sure there plenty of people who are happy with something between R5 and R6 with more mpx and no need for 8K while being more affordable.

 

[Viggo]

I don't need the top of the line video specs or 45 mpx sensor.

You don't think there is a surcharge of adding and implementing 8K to R5? I'd rather have the camera cheaper with 4k and 30 mpx like EOS R. If Canon developing such a camera, it wouldn't be as expensive as R5.

It's a great still camera but I'm sure there plenty of people who are happy with something between R5 and R6 with more mpx and no need for 8K while being more affordable.

They did, it’s called the R6.

 

[twoheadedboy]

They did, it’s called the R6.

More specifically -

If you don't need 8k or 45 MP - get the R6
If you do need more MP than that - get the R

While it's true you lose out on IBIS and 2 card slots, you could also get 2 R's for the same price as 1 R5 and mount 1 wide/normal and the other normal/short tele, which you cannot do with 1 camera with 2 card slots. IBIS isn't terribly crucial if you are already using stabilized lenses, and may not be that important even if you aren't (if shooting big aperture, in daylight, with flash, on a tripod, etc.)

 

[Jack Douglas]

You know when people say “a new camera won’t make your pictures any better” yeah, the R5 craps on that statement. The shots people are sharing from the R5 here are some of the very, very best I’ve seen here on CR, and I’ve been here for, well, at least a decade

People weren't considering what animal AF could do for someone like me ... or Artie! Wonder when all of Artie's gear will be up for sale?

Jack

 

[SteveC]

I'd rather have the camera cheaper with 4k and 30 mpx like EOS R. If Canon developing such a camera, it wouldn't be as expensive as R5.

Now, that, specifically, is a more valid line of thought than what I thought I saw previously. Sure, a 30-35 mpx camera would be cheaper than a 45 mpx camera (and it would be incapable of 8K no matter what, as 8K requires ~8000 pixels horizontally).

But that being the case, your gripe is with the sensor size. (And I can understand that; I'd have preferred something in that "size" myself. The R6 is too big a step down, though, so I stuck with the R5.)

But I would not expect THAT camera to not come with video modes either, even if it existed; it would probably come with all sorts of fancy 4K modes in it, including 120p (which I can't even access on my R5, apparently because I don't have a CFexpress card). So would you be griping about how this hypothetical camera has a bunch of video modes that are costing you money? If so, such a gripe would be flatly mistaken, as a lot of the high speed features again would have been made possible by the video development, and the video people buying the camera would drive the per-unit cost (to Canon) down. Like it or not the video people are subsidizing us.

 

[SteveC]

People weren't considering what animal AF could do for someone like me ... or Artie! Wonder when all of Artie's gear will be up for sale?

Jack

I have no doubt I will get some awesome pictures when I finally do have a chance to photograph something that moves more quickly than rocks.

 

[David_E]

OK, OK. I am speaking of U.S. market.

Perhaps more gullible to the 4K and 8k scams? Analogous to the wine myth and the old stereo myth. Wanna bet on a blind viewing at normal viewing distance?