2nd body, conflicted 5DS vs 5D4

[Ruined]

Recently I got the 5DsR for $1499 deal from B&H. I got it because I wanted an upgrade for my 6D. I thought the 6D's 20MP count was more than enough, but wow the amount of detail in the 5DsR is just insane! Even with my less sharp lenses, the pixel structure is so much finer and more natural. Reminds me of the difference of seeing film grain on a 4K movie vs a 1080p movie.

So, I wanted to get a 2nd 5D body and now I am conflicted. Originally I was going to wait until the 5D4 dropped in price during the winter, but now after seeing 50MP I'm not sure I want 30MP. I could either get another 5DsR for $1499, or wait for a Canon refurb sale on 5Ds (non-R) for $1039. Or likely the 5D4 will be $1999 in the winter.

I only shoot stills, so video performance not important. Mostly do portrait and landscape but I liked the 5D4 for its versatility. But I am not sure the few more AF points and couple of extra fps is worth losing 20MP. What do others who have owned both think?

 

[AlanF]

I faced the same choice when I bought the 5R: sell the 5DIV or the 5DSR? The 5DIV went - it's more of an all-round workhorse but for me the resolution of the 5DSR was the key factor.

 

[Ruined]

I faced the same choice when I bought the 5R: sell the 5DIV or the 5DSR? The 5DIV went - it's more of an all-round workhorse but for me the resolution of the 5DSR was the key factor.

So then question#2 would be , worth getting a refurb 5Ds as an alternative with the AA filter and save $500, or get another new 5DsR ? I guess this is something only I can answer, but 5DsR realistically may be my only choice anyway since 5Ds is out of production and unavailable for order everywhere.

Also I wonder how much of the look I am liking is due to the lack of AA filter vs 50MP?

Finally worth mentioning in your scenario I think an easier decision as the r5 can take over many of the 5d4 "versatility" duties if you unexpectedly needed them. So the question would be, if you hypothetically only had a 5DsR and had to buy a 2nd body would it be the 5Ds, 5DsR, or the 5D4 (taking the r5 out of equation).

 

[AlanF]

So then question#2 would be , worth getting a refurb 5Ds as an alternative with the AA filter and save $500, or get another new 5DsR ? I guess this is something only I can answer, but 5DsR realistically may be my only choice anyway since 5Ds is out of production and unavailable for order everywhere.

Also I wonder how much of the look I am liking is due to the lack of AA filter vs 50MP?

Finally worth mentioning in your scenario I think an easier decision as the r5 can take over many of the 5d4 "versatility" duties if you unexpectedly needed them. So the question would be, if you hypothetically only had a 5DsR and had to buy a 2nd body would it be the 5Ds, 5DsR, or the 5D4 (taking the r5 out of equation).

What are you using your second body for - a back-up; a second camera with a different lens? And what type of photos are you taking - if it's just for portraits and landscapes as you wrote, then aren't many drawbacks of the 5DSR vs 5DIV.

 

[Del Paso]

Opposite here!
I'd by far prefer the 5D IV, for its touchscreen, and dynamic range, important for high-contrast situations.
After I bought the 5D IV, I found out that I very reluctantly used the 5D III, changing ISO, selecting focus area etc... I simply missed the touch screen.
But it's a matter of personal preferences, so, only you can tell...

 

[stevelee]

So then question#2 would be , worth getting a refurb 5Ds as an alternative with the AA filter and save $500, or get another new 5DsR ? I guess this is something only I can answer, but 5DsR realistically may be my only choice anyway since 5Ds is out of production and unavailable for order everywhere.

Also I wonder how much of the look I am liking is due to the lack of AA filter vs 50MP?

Finally worth mentioning in your scenario I think an easier decision as the r5 can take over many of the 5d4 "versatility" duties if you unexpectedly needed them. So the question would be, if you hypothetically only had a 5DsR and had to buy a 2nd body would it be the 5Ds, 5DsR, or the 5D4 (taking the r5 out of equation).

I'm sorry that I don't have a link. I watched a video by a photographer who uses the 5DsR and the 5Ds as his two bodies, and sees no advantage for going to a mirrorless body at this time. He says he uses the 5DsR all the time, and the 5Ds is relegated to situations with obvious moiré, which he says he rarely encounters in his work. As I recall, he is doing product photography, so he admits that his needs and experience may not be that applicable to everyone else. From his comments about the two cameras, I would suspect that the lack of an AA filter is at least as significant as the resolution.

 

[jprusa]

I'm sorry that I don't have a link. I watched a video by a photographer who uses the 5DsR and the 5Ds as his two bodies, and sees no advantage for going to a mirrorless body at this time. He says he uses the 5DsR all the time, and the 5Ds is relegated to situations with obvious moiré, which he says he rarely encounters in his work. As I recall, he is doing product photography, so he admits that his needs and experience may not be that applicable to everyone else. From his comments about the two cameras, I would suspect that the lack of an AA filter is at least as significant as the resolution.

Are you referring to the Keith Cooper 5DR R5 comparison , if so just google .

 

[stevelee]

Are you referring to the Keith Cooper 5DR R5 comparison , if so just google .

No, this was someone with whom I was not familiar. Obviously Keith's comparison would be worth seeing.

 

[Ruined]

Opposite here!
I'd by far prefer the 5D IV, for its touchscreen, and dynamic range, important for high-contrast situations.
After I bought the 5D IV, I found out that I very reluctantly used the 5D III, changing ISO, selecting focus area etc... I simply missed the touch screen.
But it's a matter of personal preferences, so, only you can tell...

I've used Canon touchscreens before (T4i) and I am not a big fan TBH. Convenient, but not something I'd particularly miss unless I shot video (which I don't). So that would not be a factor.

The DR is definitely a factor, but the 5DS exceeds the 6D in DR, and the 5D4 while better isn't mountains better. So DR wouldn't seal the deal on its own because of the 20MP loss.

 

[Ruined]

What are you using your second body for - a back-up; a second camera with a different lens? And what type of photos are you taking - if it's just for portraits and landscapes as you wrote, then aren't many drawbacks of the 5DSR vs 5DIV.

2nd camera would be a second camera with a different lens. Such as, in landscape maybe a 16-35 on one and a 70-300 on the other; in portrait & non-pro events, maybe a 50 on one and a 70-200 on the other. In street photog, maybe a 35 on one and 85 on the other, etc. I am struggling to see what I would be missing from the 5DIV as well that I truly need, but on the other hand I also thought 20MP was enough and was proved wrong after I tried the 5DsR. So I am trying to tease out what people have found as true disadvantages of the 5DsR vs 5DIV in these primary scenarios. And maybe in a two lens scenario, I could pair the best lens with the best body for the use case - might be more inclined to use 5DIV for handheld telephoto due to camera shake hypothetically, for instance - while 5DsR could be used for wide & tripod shots to maximize detail. On the other hand maybe the 5DsR will just look better most of the time anyway, which means it would be best to have two 5DsR or a 5Ds+5DsR.

I guess I might try wildlife at some point as well, but then I'd probably be more likely to trade in my 6D for a 7D2 anyway for that to get the viewfinder crop factor and excellent AF.

For now, the 6D would be the backup & use for MF lenses (Eg-S screen) because its probably not worth selling.

 

[Ruined]

I'm sorry that I don't have a link. I watched a video by a photographer who uses the 5DsR and the 5Ds as his two bodies, and sees no advantage for going to a mirrorless body at this time. He says he uses the 5DsR all the time, and the 5Ds is relegated to situations with obvious moiré, which he says he rarely encounters in his work. As I recall, he is doing product photography, so he admits that his needs and experience may not be that applicable to everyone else. From his comments about the two cameras, I would suspect that the lack of an AA filter is at least as significant as the resolution.

I have looked at some AA filter comparisons on the web of things like fine lines, and the AA filter really does seem to mess these things up. That naturalistic feel I am seeing might just be the lack of that diffusion. I know that moire is a big concern as its tough to remove, but from comments I've read at 50MP its hard to reproduce unless all you do is shoot fabrics all day long as your full time job. That's why I went with the 5DsR in the first place. I could save $500 and go with a 5Ds, but if it introduces that artificial veil back into the photos I'd say I will probably be disappointed.

 

[AlanF]

2nd camera would be a second camera with a different lens. Such as, in landscape maybe a 16-35 on one and a 70-300 on the other; in portrait & non-pro events, maybe a 50 on one and a 70-200 on the other. In street photog, maybe a 35 on one and 85 on the other, etc. I am struggling to see what I would be missing from the 5DIV as well that I truly need, but on the other hand I also thought 20MP was enough and was proved wrong after I tried the 5DsR. So I am trying to tease out what people have found as true disadvantages of the 5DsR vs 5DIV in these primary scenarios. And maybe in a two lens scenario, I could pair the best lens with the best body for the use case - might be more inclined to use 5DIV for handheld telephoto due to camera shake hypothetically, for instance - while 5DsR could be used for wide & tripod shots to maximize detail. On the other hand maybe the 5DsR will just look better most of the time anyway, which means it would be best to have two 5DsR or a 5Ds+5DsR.

I guess I might try wildlife at some point as well, but then I'd probably be more likely to trade in my 6D for a 7D2 anyway for that to get the viewfinder crop factor and excellent AF.

For now, the 6D would be the backup & use for MF lenses (Eg-S screen) because its probably not worth selling.

I shoot mainly birds and wildlife. The 5DIV has a higher frame rate and in theory better AF and will focus over a wider area at f/8, and goes up to higher iso. In practice, I find the AF of the 5DSR to be excellent and as good as the 5DIV, and better than the 7DII - it also has similar reach to the 7DII and better IQ. The buffer fills up fast and can be slow to clear, but I never shoot long bursts with it. Although the iso maxes out at 12,800, you can push it through another 2 stops in post. So, the 5DSR is fine for wild life.

 

[Ruined]

I shoot mainly birds and wildlife. The 5DIV has a higher frame rate and in theory better AF and will focus over a wider area at f/8, and goes up to higher iso. In practice, I find the AF of the 5DSR to be excellent and as good as the 5DIV, and better than the 7DII - it also has similar reach to the 7DII and better IQ. The buffer fills up fast and can be slow to clear, but I never shoot long bursts with it. Although the iso maxes out at 12,800, you can push it through another 2 stops in post. So, the 5DSR is fine for wild life.

That's great to know. But didnt you miss the relative 1.6x viewfinder magnification of the 7d2 when framing with the OVF? Re ISO I generally never shoot over 6400 ISO anyway because it looks terrible even on FF

 

[AlanF]

That's great to know. But didnt you miss the relative 1.6x viewfinder magnification of the 7d2 when framing with the OVF? Re ISO I generally never shoot over 6400 ISO anyway because it looks terrible even on FF

Never! Quite the reverse. It’s easier to find the target with a wider field of view and it is easier to track a flying bird and keep it in frame

 

[Ruined]

Never! Quite the reverse. It’s easier to find the target with a wider field of view and it is easier to track a flying bird and keep it in frame

Never thought of it that way, but a good point! AF system can keep up even with the smaller target?

 

[AlanF]

Never thought of it that way, but a good point! AF system can keep up even with the smaller target?

The target is the same size on the AF sensor for FF and APspD-C.

 

[SteveC]

The target is the same size on the AF sensor for FF and APspD-C.

Although it's true in the physical sense of how many millimeters across the image is on the sensor, it may actually matter in this case that on the full frame sensor, with its lower pixel density, the bird will cover fewer pixels.

I couldn't begin to guess whether fewer pixels would help or hurt things like autofocus.

But, you are talking about "tracking" which is to say moving the camera to follow the bird, and there, I can assure Ruined that one will absolutely find the wider field of view a help; fewer instances of the bird being just outside your field of view in some direction and you not knowing where to move the camera to.

 

[Act444]

Recently I got the 5DsR for $1499 deal from B&H. I got it because I wanted an upgrade for my 6D. I thought the 6D's 20MP count was more than enough, but wow the amount of detail in the 5DsR is just insane! Even with my less sharp lenses, the pixel structure is so much finer and more natural. Reminds me of the difference of seeing film grain on a 4K movie vs a 1080p movie.

So, I wanted to get a 2nd 5D body and now I am conflicted. Originally I was going to wait until the 5D4 dropped in price during the winter, but now after seeing 50MP I'm not sure I want 30MP. I could either get another 5DsR for $1499, or wait for a Canon refurb sale on 5Ds (non-R) for $1039. Or likely the 5D4 will be $1999 in the winter.

I only shoot stills, so video performance not important. Mostly do portrait and landscape but I liked the 5D4 for its versatility. But I am not sure the few more AF points and couple of extra fps is worth losing 20MP. What do others who have owned both think?

I have both the 5D4 and 5DSR. the 5D4 is my everyday camera and the 5DSR is when I desire maximum detail/resolution. I probably use the former about 80-85% of the time. If I had to pick one, I'd go with the 5D4 as it is a better all-rounder, BUT...that unfiltered 50MP resolution sure spoils you, I will agree with that. Especially when used with the 85mm 1.4 or 100 Macro...

And the 5DSR resolves quite a bit more than the 5D4 in my experience (at 1600 ISO and below). Compared to the 5DS cameras, the 5D4 DOES have a noticeably softer default output so be aware of that (you will need to sharpen at least +1 or +2 in DPP to match). On the flip side, there is less color noise on the 5D4 at 3200 ISO and above. I suppose it depends on what you shoot. I'd see what I like and don't like about the 5DSR and build around that. Are you ok with the ISO performance and the speed? Then a 2nd one may be preferable. Or do you find you want more FPS or to shoot sometimes in dark areas without being constrained by the 6400 max ISO? Then I might look harder at the 5D4 as a complimentary body.

 

[AlanF]

Although it's true in the physical sense of how many millimeters across the image is on the sensor, it may actually matter in this case that on the full frame sensor, with its lower pixel density, the bird will cover fewer pixels.

I couldn't begin to guess whether fewer pixels would help or hurt things like autofocus.

But, you are talking about "tracking" which is to say moving the camera to follow the bird, and there, I can assure Ruined that one will absolutely find the wider field of view a help; fewer instances of the bird being just outside your field of view in some direction and you not knowing where to move the camera to.

@Ruined is talking about the 5DSR versus the 7DII, and they both have nearly the same pixel density: the 7DII has a 20.2 Mpx sensor, the 5DSR crops to 19.5 Mpx. But, that's not the point with those two DSLRs - the AF is done on a separate sensor, not on the image sensor, and the 7DII has no size advantage.

 

[Larsskv]

I would go for the 5DIV:

1. Dual pixel AF makes the camera much more versatile if viewfinder shooting is difficult. Face tracking makes shooting at large apertures easier.
2. Dynamic range.
3. ISO
4. GPS and Wifi
5.smaller and more manageable files for editing and storage. 30 megapixels are plenty for most scenarios.