AI Servo AF not reliable in 5D4

drolo61

EOS 80D
Aug 31, 2012
109
0
Hamburg - Germany
Dear all,

Shooting yesterday had way improved keeper rates.

What I did - blowing the AF sensor area, going closing the apperture to f 7.1 to f10 (instead of 4-5.6) and tried to keep a better "safety margin" when trying to go "under the brim".

Some pictures attached from before 2CONSULTATION2, after to follow.
Unedited JPEG standard exports from LR with size restriction.

Thank you for the helpful comments and suggestions.
BTW: will go to the C1 and C2 suggestion for distinctly different settings for <still> and <moving>
 

Hector1970

EOS 6D MK II
Mar 22, 2012
1,079
256
Interesting topic.
I'd have always said the 5DIV had a good focusing system but I have found putting it to more complicated tests that the 7DII focuses better.
I'm not sure which has the more advanced focusing system
 

Ah-Keong

EOS 80D
Dec 1, 2016
174
10
Not sure if this help.
Coming from the 7D2, if the three settings (tracking sensitivity=lock-on responsiveness, accel/decal tracking=erratic motion, AF pt auto switching=handover trigger of using more AF squares) does not work,

you can try setting the AI servo 1st image priority to Release and AI servo 2nd image priority to Focus. This would help for faster subjects or complex background.

This would help the 1st shot to go off faster while taking more time for 2nd and subsequent frames for the processor to do the focusing.

Another would be using the 5-point assisted AF squares. For the three settings, I would duplicate into a custom function to play around so as not to play around the 6 template cases together with the two AI servo priority options
 

fullstop

EOS 6D MK II
Apr 23, 2018
1,088
153
on 5D IV maybe "face tracking AF" (in live view mode) might work well enough in the situation described in starting post? possibly a quicker/less frustrating solution than trying to find the one right combination of servo-af custom settings. would also eliminate any potential AFMA issues.

well working "Eye Tracking AF" would really be the easiest solution, but not available on 5D4 or any other Canon DSLR (yet) ... Canon EOS M50 has it ... or Sony. :)

But have not tried it myself (yet). Don't know if/how well it would work with faces in shade under hat brim. I do however share the frustration of trying to find the best combination of Canon Servo AF custom settings (5D3 here) for a given capturing situation, under time pressure, in the field. "needle in a huge haystack". i would very much prefer not having to fiddle around with it, but rather have a camera deserving of the "AI servo AF" moniker! A camera that "intelligently" uses most appropriate AF mode and options on its own and perfectly tracks the (left or right) eye of a person after i select it with a tap on the touchscreen and from there on delivers shots perfectly focused on that very eye - at least as long as it is visible in the frame and opened. :)

AT the very minimum, it would help immensely if Canon would finally show AF fields correctly sized and positioned, rather than real AF fields being LARGER than the marking white rectangles in viewfinder / on LCD indicate. If in novative Canon is unable to correctly match up marking and real AF field, then at least make the marking box LARGER than the real AF field, not the other way round. Current implementation is the worst of all options. GRRR.
 

pwp

EOS 5D MK IV
Oct 25, 2010
2,521
13
drolo61 said:
I have had an intense weekend shooting children's hats for my wife's company.

I use BBF with AI servo to be able to follow the running little beauties. For the first time I have a relatively lower rate of critically sharp images (70-200 2.8 II IS), although working faster than 1/200 and ~ at least 4.0

Cheers
Olaf
I have nothing but praise for the 5D4 AI Servo performance. Even in low light shoots such as a dress rehearsal earlier this week, the keeper rate was reassuringly high. For this particular job I was running four bodies (not all at once!) the 5D4 with 24-70 f/2.8II, 1DX with 70-200 f/2.8 is II, 7DII with 300 f/2.8is and an amazing Panasonic G9 with a brand new 43.5 f/1.7 set to auto iso. All bodies were on AI Servo focus. For a good look, all lens apertures were either wide open or just one click down.

So I'd be inclined to think your low keeper rate is linked to user error. The first thing I see is shutter speed, with the 70-200 you really need to get that shutter speed up a lot, particularly with fast moving children. The 5D4 may have actually focused accurately, but motion blur lost the shot for you. For the job you've described, I'd be using single AF point and keeping that point right on the subject's eyes. At the most, I just might have chosen to expand that AF point to seven in Custom Functions, but I generally only do that for track and field athletics and sometimes football.

I see in your later post you're shooting stopped right down to f/10. Hmmm, not really the best idea unless you're chasing a certain look, I'd be shooting your project at f/3.5 or f/4 at the most. This has the multiple benefits of blurred out backgrounds, a faster shutter speed and lower iso.

Regarding the keeper rate success at the dress rehearsal, all four cameras were very satisfyingly high. The surprise winner was the recently purchased Panasonic G9 with the 43.5mm f/1.7, (87mm FF equivalent) mostly shot wide open. Interestingly the G9 files comfortably outperformed the 7D MkII at equivalent iso. Next best was the remarkable 1DX, followed almost line-ball with the 5D Mk4 and the 7DII not far behind. This is likely a lot to do with inadequate shutter speed with the 480mm equivalent focal length with the 300mm lens on the x1.6 crop APS-C body.

In all cases I used the default AF servo Case setting.

-pw
 

YuengLinger

EOR R
Dec 20, 2012
2,432
488
Southeastern USA
pwp said:
drolo61 said:
I have had an intense weekend shooting children's hats for my wife's company.

I use BBF with AI servo to be able to follow the running little beauties. For the first time I have a relatively lower rate of critically sharp images (70-200 2.8 II IS), although working faster than 1/200 and ~ at least 4.0

Cheers
Olaf
I have nothing but praise for the 5D4 AI Servo performance. Even in low light shoots such as a dress rehearsal earlier this week, the keeper rate was reassuringly high. For this particular job I was running four bodies (not all at once!) the 5D4 with 24-70 f/2.8II, 1DX with 70-200 f/2.8 is II, 7DII with 300 f/2.8is and an amazing Panasonic G9 with a brand new 43.5 f/1.7 set to auto iso. All bodies were on AI Servo focus. For a good look, all lens apertures were either wide open or just one click down.

So I'd be inclined to think your low keeper rate is linked to user error. The first thing I see is shutter speed, with the 70-200 you really need to get that shutter speed up a lot, particularly with fast moving children. The 5D4 may have actually focused accurately, but motion blur lost the shot for you. For the job you've described, I'd be using single AF point and keeping that point right on the subject's eyes. At the most, I just might have chosen to expand that AF point to seven in Custom Functions, but I generally only do that for track and field athletics and sometimes football.

I see in your later post you're shooting stopped right down to f/10. Hmmm, not really the best idea unless you're chasing a certain look, I'd be shooting your project at f/3.5 or f/4 at the most. This has the multiple benefits of blurred out backgrounds, a faster shutter speed and lower iso.

Regarding the keeper rate success at the dress rehearsal, all four cameras were very satisfyingly high. The surprise winner was the recently purchased Panasonic G9 with the 43.5mm f/1.7, (87mm FF equivalent) mostly shot wide open. Interestingly the G9 files comfortably outperformed the 7D MkII at equivalent iso. Next best was the remarkable 1DX, followed almost line-ball with the 5D Mk4 and the 7DII not far behind. This is likely a lot to do with inadequate shutter speed with the 480mm equivalent focal length with the 300mm lens on the x1.6 crop APS-C body.

In all cases I used the default AF servo Case setting.

-pw
I hear you, -pwp, but I've had enough odd things happen with gadgets to no longer "be inclined" to blame the user.
 

klickflip

EOS T7i
Jan 16, 2013
97
0
Similarly becoming more sceptical of 5`d4 focusing the more I use mine .

I’ll post a new tread with my current problems which are in studio still life setting and it can be shocking ...