Big Canon EOS R price drop, save up to $500 and still get the EF-RF adapter for free

scyrene

EOS 5D MK IV
Dec 4, 2013
2,504
392
UK
www.flickr.com
Canon and Nikon have reduced their prices out of necessity. If you look at Amazon sales in the mirrorless category, Sony dominates. Better sensors, IBIS, kick-ass autofocus, lots of lens choices including great third-party support - Sony is leading the market. The next step may well be universal shutter where mechanical shutters are a thing of the past. I don't see Canon or Nikon introducing leading technology like Sony.
LOL
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,607
2,063
I also pointedly said losing people to Sony and Nikon. Presumably future Nikon Z mount cameras will have the capability of having the same features as future a7/a9 cameras, probably just 6 months behind. And the idea of Pros switching to Nikon is probably more easy to wrap your head around.
Sure, I can wrap my head around pros switching to Nikon, or Sony. Meanwhile, you should try to wrap your head around the fact that pros also switch from Nikon and Sony to Canon. The switching isn’t under debate and really doesn’t matter, it’s the net gain/loss of customers that matters.

Regarding your statement, “Sony's overall percentage of the interchangeable lens camera market has been rising slowly while the percentage of the APS-C market has been declining,” you should consider what that means in light of the fact that Canon has not lost market share. So who is switching to Sony? Well, unlike Canon, Nikon has lost market share in the past few years. The dots really aren’t that hard to connect.
 

jayphotoworks

EOS 80D
Aug 11, 2016
189
57
https://www.sonyrumors.co/bcn-full-frame-mirrorless-ranking-in-april-sony-a7-iii-has-40-market-share-and-rising/

It is difficult to get consistent data month to month, but at least for the month of Mar-Apr for FF MILC systems, it shows the A7III outpacing both the EOS R and RP at around 13-14% with a trend that appears to continue vs Canon's offerings which appears to be moving in the opposite direction. It shows almost a 42% FF MILC share in Japan. A recent Top 10 BCN list of ILC systems shows the A7III in 7th place among top ILC sellers in Japan, and it is the ONLY FF body in that list with a price tag at least 2x or more its peers. Top 10 lists are usually dominated with entry level systems, so I was surprised to see it there and must be having an impact on the market overseas since FF system volumes are usually much smaller.

I guess some people don't mind a camera with that is commonly compared to its peers with having inferior color science, weather sealing and ergonomics after all.

https://www.bcnretail.com/research/detail/20190223_107139.html

Also in Japan regarding MILC market share, Canon is still in 1st place, but has shown a consistent downward trend in the previous 3 months while Olympus has consistently gained market share. If the trend continues, Olympus looks to displace Canon for #1. Sony meanwhile has fluctuated up and down.
 
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AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
5,738
3,035
One could just as easily say that Sony has to bring bigger spec sheets at lower prices to compete with Canon. Both Canon and Sony users win when they compete on price like this. I for one am grateful to people willing to incur the cost of chasing the latest Sony features, thus forcing Canon to adopt them into the next Canon camera I will eventually buy whether or not it has IBIS, 5 stops of shadow pulling and can AF on the eye of a black rhino. Sure, I'll take those features and use them to best of my abilities when I have them, but I don't find them essential enough to switch when weighed against other things I value.

I'll also point out that there is no free lunch. Sony is clearly subsidizing their camera division as part of a larger strategy around sensors. Imagining that they would continue to innovate at this pace in a hypothetical post-Canon world is laughable. I read over and over how terrible Canon must be because Joe Keyboard Warrior thinks everything Favoritecorporation does is the only viable option, and Notfavoritecorporation is moronic for not offering the exact same product at the exact same price. Again, we all win when there is competition. The market innovates faster when corporations employ varying strategies. If Sony offers what you value most a price you can afford, go there and be happy (bitching about Canon is not typically part of what I would call, being happy, but YMMV).
Sony sensors are meant to be independent of the camera division and the FF sensors are a minor part of it. Do you have any evidence that Sony is clearly subsidising the camera division?
 
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BillB

EOS 6D MK II
May 11, 2017
1,149
385
Sony sensors are meant to be independent of the camera division and the FF sensors are a minor part of it. Do you have any evidence that Sony is clearly subsidising the camera division?
Putting it slightly differently, I don't think there is much evidence one way or the other on whether Sony has recovered its front end investment in full frame mirrorless cameras.
 

knight427

EOS 80D
Aug 27, 2018
104
160
Putting it slightly differently, I don't think there is much evidence one way or the other on whether Sony has recovered its front end investment in full frame mirrorless cameras.
Yes, but Alan makes a good point that I am going out past what's knowable in my assertion that Sony is subsidizing their camera division. It would be very interesting to know simply to see how sustainable their current market strategy is. Clearly I have the opinion that it is not sustainable, but I lack any real evidence to back that up.
 
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bokehmon22

EOS RP
Oct 31, 2016
356
186
Canon’s next iteration of an R and the pro version will likely have IBIS and new sensors. Then all of a sudden the Sony people will be jumping to Canon with better ergonomics. Canon will dominate the mirrorless market. Its just a matter of time. A short time at that.
I doubt it.

Canon is the last major FF company to have IBIS and some of the features like eyeAF. Sony already rolled out new update for liveAF and animal that's really pretty awesome. By the time Canon catch up, they already have been working on something else already.

If you think Canon can work on IBIS and catch up on sensor, then so can Sony on ergonomics, menu, EVF (they did patent a 5.76 million dot EVF 240hz almost a year ago). They may be working on a new camera body that can allow 4K60 internal. There is a rumor of 36 mpx 16 bit sensor and potentially global shutter that's plan to release later this year. I doubt Canon will be the first camera manufacture to roll out global shutter.

Sony have plenty of native lenses along with very affordable Tamron lenses 17-28 2.8, 28-75 2.8, and rumor 75-200 2.8, Sigma E mount lenses that appeal to budget photographers.

If I was a Sony user, there are plenty reason to stay with Sony especially they roll out more camera bodies later this year. Canon lenses are nice, but it's chasing a diminish return that's significantly more expensive than Tamron/Sigma can provide.

Canon will dominate mirror less because brand recognition, lower entry camera, but the mid to high end market, there are alot of competitions from Sony, Nikon, and Panasonic. That dominant won't be as strong as before especially in a shrinking market where you have so many competitions, competing products (smart phone, Fuji APS-C, etc).

I think all competitors have something unique that will attract a slice of the pie. It isn't a sure thing that expensive RF lenses, IBIS and 75 mpx sensor would be enough to entice people to switch especially Canon do charge more for similar feature camera (EOS R - $2300 no dual card slot, IBIS, 4K)
 
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dba101

EOS M50
Sep 11, 2018
33
46
I still think it's too expensive.

Nikon is having a sale $1800 for Z6
Nikon Z6 FX-Format Mirrorless Camera Body - Bundle With Camera Case, Spare Battery, Compact Charger, Cleaning Kit, Memory Wallet, 32GB XQD Card, Mac Software Package
Go on let your imagination run wild with the wind.
 
Nov 28, 2015
4
14
Canon also lowered the price of 5DIV by $200. They lowered the price of the 70-200 2.8 IS III by $200. Adorama is bundling the 5DIV with a free Flashpoint 860 TTL flash (that's a $175 value) and also a free Canon brand battery grip ($295) The 70-200 comes with a free 3 Legged Thing tripod. Can't wait for the UPS man coming Wednesday.
 

unfocused

EOS 5D SR
Jul 20, 2010
4,982
1,333
66
Springfield, IL
www.mgordoncommunications.com
I doubt it...

...If I was a Sony user, there are plenty reason to stay with Sony...

...Canon will dominate mirror less because brand recognition, lower entry camera, but the mid to high end market, there are alot of competitions from Sony, Nikon, and Panasonic. That dominant won't be as strong as before especially in a shrinking market where you have so many competitions, competing products (smart phone, Fuji APS-C, etc)...

...I think all competitors have something unique that will attract a slice of the pie. It isn't a sure thing that expensive RF lenses, IBIS and 75 mpx sensor would be enough to entice people to switch especially Canon do charge more for similar feature camera (EOS R - $2300 no dual card slot, IBIS, 4K)...
I agree, but also disagree.

There may be some Canon users who flirted with Sony who will switch back to Canon eventually. Even going back a few years I was chatting with one pro who switched to Sony. He was wildly singing Sony's praises. I saw him at another event six months later and noticed he was back to using Canon. He said he wanted to like the Sony but just found himself disappointed and ending up switching back. (I know, a sample of one). But, I agree that most people who either started with Sony or switched to Sony will stay with Sony.

I don't think Canon expects to capture those customers. Instead, I think they are looking to hold on to their base and maybe pick up a few new users. That's all they have to do. They really don't need to convince Sony customers to switch, as they already have half the market.

You are correct in that the bulk of the market and bulk of the sales are at the lower level. But the enthusiast market is the high margin market and the least likely to abandon cameras for cell phones. Canon is highly interested in retaining that market and is well-positioned to do so given their dominance.
 

yinzer

I'm New Here
Feb 25, 2019
14
23
Ah yes, because the R has a rebate Canon mirrorless is clearly failing. Nevermind that literally every March Sony rebates all of their cameras by hundreds of dollars.
 
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bokehmon22

EOS RP
Oct 31, 2016
356
186
I agree, but also disagree.

There may be some Canon users who flirted with Sony who will switch back to Canon eventually. Even going back a few years I was chatting with one pro who switched to Sony. He was wildly singing Sony's praises. I saw him at another event six months later and noticed he was back to using Canon. He said he wanted to like the Sony but just found himself disappointed and ending up switching back. (I know, a sample of one). But, I agree that most people who either started with Sony or switched to Sony will stay with Sony.

I don't think Canon expects to capture those customers. Instead, I think they are looking to hold on to their base and maybe pick up a few new users. That's all they have to do. They really don't need to convince Sony customers to switch, as they already have half the market.

You are correct in that the bulk of the market and bulk of the sales are at the lower level. But the enthusiast market is the high margin market and the least likely to abandon cameras for cell phones. Canon is highly interested in retaining that market and is well-positioned to do so given their dominance.
It's hard to tell the overall pictures with anecdote stories. I know of 1 pro who switch back to Canon but majority of people stay and more are are slowly switching over or to another brand (4/3, Panasonic, Fuji, etc). His reason for switching back is to keep consistent editing style for his studio and skin tone. Some are using dual system even since adapter works really well with MC-11. Sony know how to use social media influencers to capture the younger crowd.

There are going to be people switching back and forth but what is the overall net flow?

Here is the headline recently
Sony 2018 financial results released: Imaging Business had +2% in sales and +12% in profit compared to 2017
Canon: In the first quarter, sales of interchangeable-lens cameras were down 19%

My point isn't to say Canon isn't dominant, they will be #1 sale in a shrinking market, but they aren't going be as dominant with less sales and less overall percentage as before when there are only 2 major players and alot of less competitions from different formats when the market isn't saturate.

Smart phones, DJI, Go Pro, and all the emerging products will steal sales away from low price high volume market Canon used to owned.

In the enthusiast market where like you said, "the high margin market and the least likely to abandon camera for smart phones", you have Nikon, Canon, Sony, Panasonic, Fuji (APS-C, affordable medium FF) compared to the yesteryear of fewer competitions.

You have emergent of Tamron and Sigma making quality affordable lenses that eat into Canon overall lenses profits. You have photographers who still don't want to upgrade their DSLR to FF mirrorless because they don't see the value of upgrading since their gears work fine, financial reason or technical issues (EVF).

Photography market is a very saturated market with alot of competitions just like the PC industry and that's why Canon is diversify their porfolio in other fields beside camera market. I really hope the competitions will make Canon be aggressive with feature sets and pricing instead of finally offering features that they are the last to withhold (IBIS, etc).
 

Tugela

EOS 6D MK II
Feb 12, 2014
855
13
I'll also point out that there is no free lunch. Sony is clearly subsidizing their camera division as part of a larger strategy around sensors. Imagining that they would continue to innovate at this pace in a hypothetical post-Canon world is laughable. I read over and over how terrible Canon must be because Joe Keyboard Warrior thinks everything Favoritecorporation does is the only viable option, and Notfavoritecorporation is moronic for not offering the exact same product at the exact same price. Again, we all win when there is competition. The market innovates faster when corporations employ varying strategies. If Sony offers what you value most a price you can afford, go there and be happy (bitching about Canon is not typically part of what I would call, being happy, but YMMV).
The company that makes the cameras is not the same company that makes the sensors. There is no subsidizing going on.

Most of Sony's sensor revenue comes from cell phones, not cameras. That is what drives their program. Canon is irrelevant in that respect.
 

mpb001

EOS T7i
Sep 10, 2016
66
52
I don’t think that there is any slow, steady migration to Sony or any other manufacturer from Canon and these lower prices from Canon are no different that any other manufacturer. Just look at how Sony has lowered prices recently. Plus, the resale on Sony bodies is not very good compared to Canon or Nikon. Before too long even Sony’s current hot A7III will be reduced, especially around Christmas.

The bottom line is the market is saturated with DSLRs and now mirrorless is becoming the current rage, so there are more players like Panasonic, Fuji, Olympus, so pricing will be competitive. This is all very good for us, the consumer.
 

ColinJR

EOS-R
Nov 27, 2018
32
26
robertsonrep.com
Yes, the 5D IV and R. But what about prior bodies? For years, Canon was ‘behind’ in sensors...but not in sales. That was my point. You say they ‘need to be close to Sony’, the facts show they don’t.


Got any evidence of a ‘slow but steady bleed to Sony and Nikon professionals & semi-pro amateurs’? Note that anecdotes ≠ evidence. “My two friends who used Canon have switched to Sony. Well, one switched and one is thinking about it,” is not evidence. “This or that pro shooter switched to Sony,” is not evidence (any more than, “That other pro photographer switched to Canon.”).

In point of fact, if the ‘low end of the market is collpsing’ making the high end that much more important for overall sales numbers, and Canon is not losing market share, that is a form of evidence. Except that it’s evidence which refutes your argument.
I have a question for Mr. Facts and Evidence guy—why do you keep using Canon's financial success as an argument for why they shouldn't innovate? Are you a stock holder or something? GMAFB. It's OK to like Canon AND admit they aren't keeping pace to Sony. No need to get all high and mighty about how much market share they have. That's not the xxxxxx point.
 
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justaCanonuser

Grab your camera, go out and shoot!
Feb 12, 2014
456
266
Frankfurt, Germany
Sensor wise, I think the 5D4/R sensor does a very good job. Especially in DR....not sure how much more you really need there. I would like a higher resolution body, but that will come.
Don't ever post such comments on DPR, the Sony fanboyzz there will kill you, fill you and grill you...:poop:
 

Del Paso

M3 Singlestroke
Aug 9, 2018
540
522
In Germany, some RP kits are already offered with an official Canon "start bonus", e.g. you can currently save € 170 on the RP/ Adapter/ RF 24-105mm kit. I still gonna wait a bit...
[/
Don't ever post such comments on DPR, the Sony fanboyzz there will kill you, fill you and grill you...:poop:
Sorry having to say that, but I was also shocked by the sensor of my latest acquisition (5 D IV), it's simply excellent in terms of color rendition (vital for me) ,DR (!!!), and cropping ability, compared to my beloved undestructible 5 D III.
Humble apologies to the Wonderful- Sony Fanboyzz-and-girlzz
PS: I just tested it with my 1981 Apo Telyt 180mm, many old lenses still rock!:love:
 
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neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,607
2,063
I have a question for Mr. Facts and Evidence guy—why do you keep using Canon's financial success as an argument for why they shouldn't innovate? Are you a stock holder or something? GMAFB. It's OK to like Canon AND admit they aren't keeping pace to Sony. No need to get all high and mighty about how much market share they have. That's not the fucking point.
‘Better’ and ‘ahead’ are subjective...personal value judgements. For example, I believe facts and data comprise the best support for a claim. Your statements suggest you think that name calling and vulgarity are ‘better’ (whereas I think they merely make you appear to be petulant).

As for ‘keeping pace’, is more DR ahead of higher resolution? Is DPAF better than IBIS? Is a broader selection of lenses better than lower cost systems? (Oh, wait...Canon has both of those.) The point is, you don’t get to define ‘better’ or ‘ahead’ for anyone but you. Nor do you get to define what is innovative – the fact that you don’t need/want a new feature or capability doesn’t mean it’s not innovative. Everyone must define what’s best for them, and generally people make their buying choices based on those definitions.

There’s no objective measure of ‘better’, but camera sales can be objectively assessed. So, while it’s impossible to state objectively that Sony is ‘ahead’ of Canon or that Canon is ‘better’, a logical conclusion from Canon’s market share is that the majority of camera buyers believe Canon best meets their needs.

I’m certainly not suggesting that you or anyone else base a buying decision on a camera’s popularity. As I stated, buy what’s best for you. For me, that’s Canon. The most recent example is the drop in ND adapter for the EOS R which is an innovation unmatched by any other manufacturer, and enables me to easily achieve long exposures with my TS-E 17 and 11-24/4L (two other innovations unmatched by any other manufacturer). Gee, that’s three areas where Canon is ‘ahead’ in just one sentence. :p

Although market share shouldn’t drive your buying choices, don’t make the mistake of thinking it can’t affect them. Many people touted the Samsung NX series as being far ‘ahead of’ and ‘better than’ Canon’s MILCs. But you can’t choose to buy one today, because the NX couldn’t capture sufficient market share and Samsung abandoned the MILC market.

Incidentally, CAJ is not one of the individual holdings in my portfolio, although I can’t rule out the possibility that it’s a component of one of the mutual funds in which I have invested.
 

jebrady03

EOS 7D MK II
Feb 2, 2011
529
22
40
Sarasota, FL
Sony A7III release: April 2018
Date of first A7III sale price in the USA: TBD
Total time between release and sale price: TBD (over 1 year at this point)

Canon EOS R release: October 2018
Date of first EOS R sale price in the USA: April 2019
Total time between release and sale price: 6 months

Nikon Z6 release: November 2018
Date of first Z6 sale price in the USA: April 2019
Total time between release and sale price: 5 months

I'm in sales and the mentality in sales is that when you're competing on price, you're racing towards the bottom. The fact that Canon and Nikon have both adopted sale prices so soon after launch and Sony has not, despite their A7III being on the market twice as long, is quite interesting.

Given that the A7III has been out for over a year now, I wouldn't be surprised to see a sale price soon. But, given that they haven't felt the need to do so yet means it's possible they won't discount it any time soon. So, it'll be interesting to see what happens.

Say what you will about Sony but they've managed to make the very best all-around FF camera on the market and the few sales numbers the public has access to show that customers are rewarding Sony for it.
 
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