Blackmagic Design announces new Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 6K with EF mount

peters

EOS T7i
Dec 25, 2017
70
60
You seem to misunderstand the concept of a cinema camera.
I think on very compact "cinema" cameras a good AF is a real benefit. Like on the C200. Or the 1DX II -> for example on a gimbal or on 1-men-projects its realy INCREDIBLE helpful to have a good working autofocus. It just takes so much hassle away and you can concentrate much easier on your image, composition, content, surround. Especialy in run and gun situations its a big benefit. And with the very small size of this camera its a good pick for this work.
 

Stereodude

EOS 80D
Jul 8, 2019
119
91
I think on very compact "cinema" cameras a good AF is a real benefit. Like on the C200. Or the 1DX II -> for example on a gimbal or on 1-men-projects its realy INCREDIBLE helpful to have a good working autofocus. It just takes so much hassle away and you can concentrate much easier on your image, composition, content, surround. Especialy in run and gun situations its a big benefit. And with the very small size of this camera its a good pick for this work.
Well, your want list corresponds more to a run a gun video rig. If you want good AF in a "cinema" camera you have pretty much only once choice. Canon's cinema cameras. There are a lot of pros to the BMPCC's. But you're going to have to give up AF while rolling video because like most cinema cameras it doesn't do that.
 
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funkboy

6D & a bunch of crazy primes
Jul 28, 2010
473
1
49
elsewhere
So it looks like Canon APS-C glass won't be quite wide enough, though if your shooting in 6K you can always crop out the black parts and still end up > 4K resolution. My Canon 10-22 will fit in that category. My two Sigma lenses which are designed for 1.5 crop might be wide enough if the Canon mount on the back of the lenses doesn't cause issues. Then again it also depends on how they handle the aspect ratios. If they are just cropping then every thing should work just fine. If they are down sampling not so much.
Also most APS-C zoom lenses will large have enough image circles at the long end to work without vignetting.
To my knowledge, only Canon makes actual EF-S lenses; all other 3rd party mounts are just normal EF with glass designed for APS-C.
e.g. my APS-C Tokina 11-16 f/2.8 worked just fine as a 16mm f/2.8 on my EOS 6D.
 

RayValdez360

EOS RP
Jun 6, 2012
336
115
I think on very compact "cinema" cameras a good AF is a real benefit. Like on the C200. Or the 1DX II -> for example on a gimbal or on 1-men-projects its realy INCREDIBLE helpful to have a good working autofocus. It just takes so much hassle away and you can concentrate much easier on your image, composition, content, surround. Especialy in run and gun situations its a big benefit. And with the very small size of this camera its a good pick for this work.
Nope all these fake purist type people just want a block that records images with no automation or intelligent features. to hell with technology making life and work easier. features that make life easier is not cinematic.
 
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peters

EOS T7i
Dec 25, 2017
70
60
Well, your want list corresponds more to a run a gun video rig. If you want good AF in a "cinema" camera you have pretty much only once choice. Canon's cinema cameras. There are a lot of pros to the BMPCC's. But you're going to have to give up AF while rolling video because like most cinema cameras it doesn't do that.
Thats true, right now only canon does offer a decent AF in cinema cameras. But I think it would be a good idea of Blackmagic to include a good AF in the pocket line. The ultra compact form factor makes it a great choice as a run and gun camera =)
 

jayphotoworks

EOS 80D
Aug 11, 2016
186
56
Nope all these fake purist type people just want a block that records images with no automation or intelligent features. to hell with technology making life and work easier. features that make life easier is not cinematic.
I wouldn't simply label people as "fake purists" if they opt not to use AF in their production. Cameras like the C200 are better suited for ENG work and docs, etc. The run-n-gun approach or 1-man operator fit that use case quite well, but in many other narrative productions, it makes no sense and the AF is too slow or imprecise for inclusion. The technology wouldn't exactly help them in any capacity.

If you look at Sundance, Canon is used quite extensively:


But if you look at the cameras used in Netflix series, there isn't a single Canon on the list:


The industry kind of determines what features are expected in a cinema camera at large, but Blackmagic has been pretty aggressive of late. I still remember the days of the original Blackmagic cameras that couldn't even format cards, view remaining storage capacity and even monitor audio channels in camera. I wonder if they (and other lower cost entrants) are having an impact on Canon because it appears Canon's cinema line has been taking a thrashing lately. They lost 60% of its sales last quarter in areas outside of the Americas and even reclassified their cinema segment outside of its imaging BU moving a large operating profit deficit with it as well...
 

Stereodude

EOS 80D
Jul 8, 2019
119
91
Nope all these fake purist type people just want a block that records images with no automation or intelligent features. to hell with technology making life and work easier. features that make life easier is not cinematic.
No, AF is simply not the panacea you seem to think it is. Even if the AF is perfect and can track the subject's eyes perfectly and never hunt or pump if the subject is moving the focus changes will most likely be visible in the bokeh of the background which is undesirable. Instead they set the focus to the middle of the zone the subject is moving in and make sure the DoF is sufficient to cover the area and shoot the shot with fixed focus so there's no focus shifting in the background.

Sure there are a few cases where AF would be nice. But there are lots of cases where it's not. Your premise that cinematic shooters are technophobe Luddites flies in the face of reality. They aren't still shooting B&W film with mono audio or an organist are they? Digital has nearly eliminated film. They've embraced things like 3D, HDR, object based audio, etc.
 
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robotfist

5D Mk III, C300, C200
Oct 23, 2017
24
25
I'm more interested in the Blackmagic color science, ProRes and the larger sensor than I am 6K. Skyfall, which was shot in 1080p still looks amazing on a giant screen. Honestly, I'm still not on the resolution bandwagon. The only uses I can see for 6K is for cropping in or for incorporating CGI. But for 95% of the people using the camera, 6K is just going to translate into more expensive storage and a need to upgrade their editing system. Increasing the resolution seems to be an easy way to release new camera models. I'd rather camera companies tackle the hard stuff, which is increased dynamic range, color science, lowlight, better codecs and power efficiency. I could care less about resolution.
 

cayenne

EOR R
Mar 28, 2012
1,876
89
I'm more interested in the Blackmagic color science, ProRes and the larger sensor than I am 6K. Skyfall, which was shot in 1080p still looks amazing on a giant screen. Honestly, I'm still not on the resolution bandwagon. The only uses I can see for 6K is for cropping in or for incorporating CGI. But for 95% of the people using the camera, 6K is just going to translate into more expensive storage and a need to upgrade their editing system. Increasing the resolution seems to be an easy way to release new camera models. I'd rather camera companies tackle the hard stuff, which is increased dynamic range, color science, lowlight, better codecs and power efficiency. I could care less about resolution.
Yeah, I think the main use initially for shooting 6K would be the ability to reframe as needed for 4K or HD output.

I'm anxious to see how large the BM RAW files are, supposedly their new blackmagic raw format does a pretty good job and keeping file sizes more reasonable, at least that's what I read initially.

I'm saving my pennies...first to get a good media computer and hook in a bit more external work disks, try out Davinci Resolve 16...and then buy the BM 6K camera and get the full version of Resolve.

I think that is going to be some FUN to work with....their color science and management is supposed to be really interesting.

C
 

jvillain

EOS T7i
Sep 29, 2018
74
60
But if you look at the cameras used in Netflix series, there isn't a single Canon on the list:
Any idea if any of the Canon cameras are certified for Netflix productions? There was gossip that BM was trying to get the 4K BMPCC certified. I wonder if the 6 K will get it? I honestly can't think of a reason why it shouldn't.

I'm more interested in the Blackmagic color science, ProRes and the larger sensor than I am 6K
My priorities are great price, EF mount, awesome codecs, higher frame rates, and last 6K. I shoot every thing in 4K with the exception of some high frame rate B roll. I think the only time I would bother with 6K is shooting hand held or on a gimbal where I wanted to over dose on the stabilizer in post but still land at 4K. Like the move to UHD the least exciting thing is the resolution.

I'm anxious to see how large the BM RAW files are, supposedly their new blackmagic raw format does a pretty good job and keeping file sizes more reasonable, at least that's what I read initially.
Josh Yeo has a video showing the results of shooting 4K BM raw at 12:1 compression to an SD card and how far he can push the grade. There are different levels of compression available depending on what you are shooting.


The bit rates are listed here.


If your wondering how the small sensors do in low light in the hands of some one that knows what they are doing.



 

RayValdez360

EOS RP
Jun 6, 2012
336
115
No, AF is simply not the panacea you seem to think it is. Even if the AF is perfect and can track the subject's eyes perfectly and never hunt or pump if the subject is moving the focus changes will most likely be visible in the bokeh of the background which is undesirable. Instead they set the focus to the middle of the zone the subject is moving in and make sure the DoF is sufficient to cover the area and shoot the shot with fixed focus so there's no focus shifting in the background.

Sure there are a few cases where AF would be nice. But there are lots of cases where it's not. Your premise that cinematic shooters are technophobe Luddites flies in the face of reality. They aren't still shooting B&W film with mono audio or an organist are they? Digital has nearly eliminated film. They've embraced things like 3D, HDR, object based audio, etc.
they embraced things after backlash because people dont like change but after awhile they become more comfortable. AF is something that can be used when needed. Just like people use canon cinema cameras with AF and. when it doesnt work the way we want it to, we simply turn it off. it is just another optional tool in the arsenal that is better to have than not have.
 

Kharan

EOS M50
Nov 9, 2018
34
21
I wouldn't simply label people as "fake purists" if they opt not to use AF in their production. Cameras like the C200 are better suited for ENG work and docs, etc. The run-n-gun approach or 1-man operator fit that use case quite well, but in many other narrative productions, it makes no sense and the AF is too slow or imprecise for inclusion. The technology wouldn't exactly help them in any capacity.

If you look at Sundance, Canon is used quite extensively:


But if you look at the cameras used in Netflix series, there isn't a single Canon on the list:


The industry kind of determines what features are expected in a cinema camera at large, but Blackmagic has been pretty aggressive of late. I still remember the days of the original Blackmagic cameras that couldn't even format cards, view remaining storage capacity and even monitor audio channels in camera. I wonder if they (and other lower cost entrants) are having an impact on Canon because it appears Canon's cinema line has been taking a thrashing lately. They lost 60% of its sales last quarter in areas outside of the Americas and even reclassified their cinema segment outside of its imaging BU moving a large operating profit deficit with it as well...
Thank you for the informative post. It’s a rare sight these days on the internet.
 
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syder

EOS 80D
Apr 29, 2012
191
52
Nope all these fake purist type people just want a block that records images with no automation or intelligent features. to hell with technology making life and work easier. features that make life easier is not cinematic.
Nope, the reason most cinema cameras dont have those features is that you have a dedicated focus puller as part of the crew. If you're renting RED or Alexa you aren't a one person run and gun setup. And a good focus puller beat an AF system 99% of the time for fiction. We have half a dozen C200s and while the AF is great for certain things, especially when you're doing everything alone, given the choice, especially for fiction I'd take a crew every time. Having the AF adjust focus when you dont want it to, lose the object its tracking, react too slowly or too quickly etc. are noit cinematic.

A one man blog/wedding videographer is not the same thing as the crew for a feature/tv series, they dont use the same equipment and dont need the same features.

This is not exactly rocket science.
 
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Dantana

EOS RP
Jan 29, 2013
224
67
Los Angeles, CA
www.flickr.com
I'm more interested in the Blackmagic color science, ProRes and the larger sensor than I am 6K. Skyfall, which was shot in 1080p still looks amazing on a giant screen. Honestly, I'm still not on the resolution bandwagon. The only uses I can see for 6K is for cropping in or for incorporating CGI. But for 95% of the people using the camera, 6K is just going to translate into more expensive storage and a need to upgrade their editing system. Increasing the resolution seems to be an easy way to release new camera models. I'd rather camera companies tackle the hard stuff, which is increased dynamic range, color science, lowlight, better codecs and power efficiency. I could care less about resolution.
Skyfall in a beautiful film, but not shot in 1080p : https://shotonwhat.com/skyfall-2012
 
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cayenne

EOR R
Mar 28, 2012
1,876
89
Nope, the reason most cinema cameras dont have those features is that you have a dedicated focus puller as part of the crew. If you're renting RED or Alexa you aren't a one person run and gun setup. And a good focus puller beat an AF system 99% of the time for fiction. We have half a dozen C200s and while the AF is great for certain things, especially when you're doing everything alone, given the choice, especially for fiction I'd take a crew every time. Having the AF adjust focus when you dont want it to, lose the object its tracking, react too slowly or too quickly etc. are noit cinematic.

A one man blog/wedding videographer is not the same thing as the crew for a feature/tv series, they dont use the same equipment and dont need the same features.

This is not exactly rocket science.

While I think it would be nice to have AF as an option, I've never had it on my 5D3 i've been shooting on for years now...I'm one man, but most of my stuff I set up the shots, etc.

Actually for when I am in the video and it is just me, I bought a large clamp that fits flat on the floor, and in that, I clamped in a LARGE metal ruler I found at Lowe's....and I stand that in for me and focus on it, then hit record, walk over and remove the 'stand in' and do my spots, etc.

And I've shot live concert videos, and it isn't that hard to pull focus once you get used to it, even on a zoom.

I like to rack focus a lot when doing live music shooting, and at pretty wide open apertures.....again, it only takes a little practice....

C
 
Aug 1, 2017
329
189
If you need servo AF while shooting then this probably isn't a good fit. DPAF is still king as far as that goes.

However, as I understand it from friends with the BMC4K's the manual focusing aids and large screen make for a pretty solid manual focus experience. Compared to a 5D/1DX, which have no manual focusing aids, pulling focus on the BMC6K would be a cakewalk. If you can pull manual focus on a Canon DSLR you would be fine. But, if you need AF while filming, best to look for another solution.
 
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